The pros and cons for today's App Store developer (Apple Byte Extra Crunchy, Ep. 92)

Support for today's show comes from Shutterstock. Every business needs high-quality images to attract and keep customers. I told you, you see something that looks good, you wanna click on it. So whether you're making brochures or ads, or putting the final touches on your next tweet, the visuals you choose are proven to make a difference. So check this out. Get started today with a 20% discount at shutterstock.com Slash crunchy, that stands for extra apple bite, extra crunchy. I can't even say it. But you know what? That's how you do it. Again, shutterstock.com\crunchy. Let's get back to the show. [MUSIC] Hello everybody, we are not live. But we are here in the studio together. It's the Apple Byte Extra Crunchy podcast, with your host Mr Brian Tong. Yo, we're in the house Mr Beacham. In the house. Episode 92. If you're listening to this right now I'm actually on a beach, [LAUGH] feeling the sun against my skin. I can hear the waves. Trust me, I'm already seeing them, I'm hearing them, I'm smelling them right now. Yeah. But welcome to the show, Apple Byte, extra crunchy episode 92. We're gonna do something a little different today, because we wanted to kind of really dig in a little bit more specifically to talk about the App Store and app development and all those things. So what I wanted to do is bring in my good friend, way back from our Apple retail store days. Yes, if you didn't know that, I mean, I've said it multiple times on the show, that I used to Worked for Apple Retail way back in the day. OG. OG. My good buddy, Joe Cieplinski. He's now officially, his official title if we wanna go by that, the creative director of Bombing Brain Interactive. Has his own apps as an indie developer, has apps with Bombing Brain, and really a jack of all trades. Joe, thank you so much for coming on the show. Welcome. Yeah, it's a pleasure man. It's been a long time since we talked. It's been a while. Again, I don't even remember. When did the [UNKNOWN] Apple Store, man, open? Was it around 2005 or 6, I can't remember. Do you remember that? It was pre iPod so it��s got to be closer to 2002, or something like that I��m going to say. But it was a while ago, yeah. So that��s how far back we go, we were there, like you said. Said for iPods, iPhone we were there for those first launches. And I think it's really great because not only do we have that connection from the past, I mean you're now a developer. I wanted to kind of first bring up just so people get a sense of maybe a little bit of your journey and be like, okay, And people that don't know you have your own podcast called Release notes that focuses really deep dies and the stuff. But maybe you could tell people a little about you journey from maybe a little before Apple Store and then how you've gone to where you are now. Sure, my background actually is, I was an English teacher, believe it or not. That's what I studied in school. And I was teaching, [SOUND] [LAUGH] Sorry about that, we're in New York right now. Love it. Yeah, I'm in New York, yeah. lovely city atmosphere. I was a teacher for about five years, first in the Philadelphia area where I grew up. But then I moved out to California and I taught for one last year there. And, I was always interested in techno, I was alway doing iconographic stuff. And so when I quit teaching, I let that go. I was looking for work in graphic design and I found a full time job doing that. But I also at the same time applied for the [UNKNOWN]. And so it was one of my first part time jobs outside teaching. Then I would come in nights and weekends basically and they kinda heard me to, their idea behind the part timers are like people who knew nothing about retail but kind of knew the [UNKNOWN] Apple's stuff, and we would go in there, and I did some of the presentations. Yeah, you did. [LAUGH] Yeah, so I used to do presentations and whatnot, and then yeah, I would help people yeah by, I was always a musician and things like that so I was helping people with buying pro solutions, and it was a lot of fun, and that's where I met you. That is where we met, I think also though, as an indie developer You are doing graphic design but you are not necessarily doing coding or anything at that time but what drove you in that direction as well Yes, so the graphic thing drove me all the way to the iPhone basically. I mean mobile development happens. People who were there remember. Prior to that, it was not really an open field for Indian. The [UNKNOWN] established Indians out there People making some decent on the [UNKNOWN] but, it seem like a pipe dream that you'll never be able to start your software company at that point. It's like go work for Adobe, or go work for Microsoft, or Apple or those companies that you really want to build software and The iPhone changed all that and so a couple of friends of mine who were computer science major got in touch with me, right after the iPhone, right after the app store really, in 2008, and they said, hey, you know we're building some apps, we need some graphics, we heard you were doing graphic design now, do you wanna help us out? And that's how I got involved with Balmy Brain and I started doing graphics for them and then over the years what ended up happening was I was doing the graphic design and that was great. But more and more I was asking lots of question about code. And so the two guys kept set me a bug in the end basically saying, you gotta start coding yourself. You're asking too many questions, you're asking all the right questions, you're obviously interested in this. So I start learning the code on my own, I built a few apps on my own. And it really helped me to be a better designer but also to build my own apps, and then also to help them with code along the way. I do want to drop a plug. At least one of the bombing brain apps is Teleprompt Plus which is a teleprompter app which a lot of people now, you see a lot of people on the go. Although yes, you can talk on your phone to the camera on the fly, there is still more than enough Reasons or uses to actually have a teleprompter type app on the phone. Can you name drop some of the other apps that you guys at Bommy Brain have as well as maybe some of your indie apps? Just to give people a sense of okay This guy has more than just like one app under his belt, you know what I mean. [LAUGH] Yeah, well [UNKNOWN] is the big one, and that is the one that we've had the most success with, and yeah you're right, I mean we've got Senators, we've got lots of people using that app. And it's pretty useful, it's had a great amount of success for us. But we also built another app called Set List, which is similar, it's kind of a lyric prompter more for musicians. Really? And bands, and that was actually my original idea. When the iPad came out, we all did a pow wow and we said, what should we build for this new thing? And I came up with this idea of whenever I'm performing on stage, I can't remember lyrics, [LAUGH] so it would be nice to have the lyrics up there. And so Then we kinda molded that idea into a standard kind of [UNKNOWN] built that first and then after a while, we decided to go ahead and try to set this [UNKNOWN] as well. And that's been doing well for us with lately, it's [UNKNOWN] bits and [UNKNOWN] quite a bit and it's really helpful. So you can put your chord changes in there. You can also put your lyrics and instead of scrolling You know, constantly. It's more like a cue card system where you see one verse at a time, or one chorus at a time and you advance it either with a hook control, or you can do a simple swipe. And you know, so that's done really well for us. In addition, I've built a few apps on my own. I've built a timer, little timer app called Finn, or Fonk if you're French. Fonk? Yeah, like FIN. [UNKNOWN]? [LAUGH] [UNKNOWN]? I just want to make sure I pronounce it properly. [UNKNOWN]? Yeah, like Pinelli. But the idea is basically, when I was giving presentations Orientations. I still like to present on stage so the old teacher in me. I was having a practice a lot and you have to do exactly a 45 minutes talk or 30 minute talk. I needed a big giant timer in front of me because to tell me how much time I had left. Under ten minutes left The screen turns green and when its five minutes left orange, and that sort of thing. So I built that, and that's been doing well for me. I built that as a solo thing. I also had another one called X to Y which was an aspect ratio calculator that was the first app I built to help me when I was doing design work. That is App-solutely impressive. [LAUGH] I went there. I did go there. You did, yeah. Yeah, I did. Okay, so I wanted to dive into Something [UNKNOWN] Yes, they know, they [UNKNOWN] [LAUGH] So I wanted to dive into, for our listeners, and everyone is obviously excited about iOS 11, just because How it is, obviously no matter what a new operating system or updated operating system for the iOS platform and really does change how we use the iPad specifically. But I wanted to dig into the app store, because when I first saw it, I was actually a little frustrated for developers because. I felt like especially on the screen real-estate of the iPhone I'm like, this feels like it's an app store that has less discovery but features, because of, kind of the cards, and it IS a cleaner look, but features a way of like, you know what? Is this mostly gonna be more sponsor people, app developers with money, that are gonna be able to buy placement, more than allowing the discovery to happen, and really give indie developers, and I know they have an indie developers section, here and there, but It seemed like there was less discovery. I'm curious, as a developer yourself, what are your thoughts with the facelift of the iOS 11 app store and maybe how it might help you or hurt you? Yeah, you know, when talking to a lot of my All of her friends, and a lot of people have had that same reaction that you had. And I understand that completely. There is less on the screen at any given time, so there are fewer things being featured at once. But as a designer what I. Also notice that if you're seeing less or fewer things on the screen that means each thing that's on the screen is larger. And so those larger features are going to [UNKNOWN] better. I also like the design and that it feels finally like it's Apple. For me the App Store Always sorta looked like a bargain basement. They were cramming as much stuff in there, it was just a bunch of icons, and so people didn't have a whole lot to go on when they were making purchase decisions and I think that really hurt the amount of time that people are spending in there anymore. I don't know about you, but I don't Go into the app store at all anymore unless I'm searching for a specific thing I've already heard of. I think what Apple's trying to do with design is to get people back into a habit of just showing up. Just like they did with the Apple retail stores, they bucked the trend. Yeah, everyone was telling them, you got to pack as much Products reach every square inch of the store again, and Apple said, "Well no! We're going to have giant ceilings and put five products out on the ceiling, and have these giant clean tables with only four things out on them." And people thought they were nuts. But the Apple store has become a place that people hang out,. And I think they're trying to do the same thing with the App Store. They're trying to make it a place, that's why they're doing all of this curated content. They're going to be writing this detailed and in depth articles. Different kinds of apps and stories about developers. They are just trying to get something, they're giving people a reason to show up in the store every day and then the hope is, once you're there, you'll start browsing again a little more. Now, unfortunately, what they don't seem to have address much is the search, and the search is still kind of, at least in the betas that I've played with so far, doesn't seem to have improved a whole lot and so as long as that search is kind of a problem I think discoverability is going to continue to be a problem so I am a little worried on that end but I I know that Apple takes its time, and people complain for years, and then suddenly they just, one day, wake up and say, hey guys, guess what. So I'm waiting for that day. Maybe it's iOS 13 or 14, when they're like, we totally rewrote our whole search engine. But I have to think that they're working on that. But I think the improvements overall are going to be good for everyone involved. I understand what you mean. If you're a multimillionaire company, you're going to get more, you know, even more real estate than you're already getting, and the rich get richer. But that's the way the App Store is. One of the things we talk about on my podcast in recess all the time is that, as an indie developer, you really can't rely on the App Store as a marketing tool. You really got to get people out there on your own and find your customers yourself and not rely on Apple so much. Yeah, that's a great point that you made just at the end of that. Shame on Brian and we're gonna talk about it more but you have this great podcast release notes that really digs deep Into some of the things we are touching upon now but really digs deep into the life of an indie developer, that challenges decisions that you can make on product from designer standpoint, from functionality standpoint. That's some great nitty-gritty stuff in that world and honestly more than anything I learn a lot from just listening to a few episodes that you guys have. That are curious about app development should definitely check out release notes and Joe is one of the voices of that show. The thing though, great point is what you just said, you can't rely on the app store to get your product out there. Yeah you really can't. I mean, there are million of apps and no matter what you make chances are ten other people made an app that does a similar thing. And again once they get to the app store, even if they find their app via search, they don't really have a lot to go on. A couple screenshots, they're not going to read your description, and they're just going to go with the cheapest thing they can find or that's why a lot of us lately have been moving to more of a free Free kind of download. At least you can try it out for a little bit. Apple did help us with that. With the subscription changes last year where more of this came [INAUDIBLE], allow almost, they don't really call it a free trial but you can You kind of have a sort of a functionality and you can have a subscription that lasts 14 days and then it shuts down. Anything that gets people to be able to try before they buy is a good thing. I really think that is sort of where the software game is heading in general. I mean we. We really can't count on. It's not the old days. It's not like you have these few small little band of customers that were willing to pay $50.00 for things, they just aren't. So instead we have a ton of people and none of them want to pay for anything. [LAUGH] So you have to find those few people who are willing to pay for good solution. But you can't expect them to pay a lot until they've had a chance to really see that your product, that you're serious. Go ahead, go ahead. Sorry, do you guys have a marketing team? Seems like you're saying it has a lot to do with marketing. So as soon as you guys make an app, do you have a marketing team working with you while you're building the app? Or how does that work? Yeah. I'm sort of our marketing team right now. [LAUGH] We all are pitch in. We write blog posts and we reach out to journalists whenever we can and we try to get the word out. I do talks at conferences all the time or anything that we can do. We've actually done some partnerships for the teleprompter. One of the smartest things we did was a bunch of hardware manufacturers came to us and people that were making sort of mirror, [UNKNOWN] devices, hardware for the iPad. Or the foot pedal control, the Bluetooth foot pedals for starting and stopping and stuff like that. They came to us, and they basically said, you know what? We have this great hardware, we don't really feel like writing an app. But would you mind if we just tell people, show them your app when they ask questions about it? And maybe hook us up with a link on your store. In your website about that. And so, we kinda do these back and forth and I think we end up on a better end to that deal, cuz while they sell at $200 piece of hardware for customer, our app is only $20 or $25. They are actually going out and doing a lot of marketing We got trade shows that we can't afford to go to. They go to NAB and AM and those kinds of shows. And when they're there they're showing every customer our software. So that really helps quite a bit and those kinds of partnerships i think have been a big thing for us. But it's really hard to do marketing because it's the last thing you want to do as a developer, as a designer you got to be focusing on your app, you want to be working on it. and you know its you have to just kinda set that aside I have heard a couple of smart people and he's out there suggesting that you should be spending almost half your time yeah if you really want to see it seems like a bummer you know like i understand like because you kinda are like artists you want to put out your product nad you wanna be like here it is world check it out and then its like No one sees you get crickets. So yeah, that seems like a struggle. Yeah, but it's the way business has always been, and in a lot of ways it's easier to be in business now than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Absolutely. Prior to the app store, you had to put your software in a box, then you had to convince a retail store- Geez. To shelf it for you. Yeah, I mean remember even at the Apple store like For actual apps, like actual bought software? What, maybe 20, 30 slots tops? Like really. Yeah and it has to be shipped to the store. And they used to take like 50% off the top if you were lucky enough for them to stock it for you. So the 30% feels like a lot to people, you know it's easy to forget how much worse it was back in the day and how much smaller the audience People were paying for apps, but that's because it was this small niche of really dedicated people that wanted to do things on their computer as part of the iPhone. I was one of those people that spent way too much money on those apps. So Joe, I do have another question. Maybe just the current state of the app store or even for Apple developers. Are there things that Apple has done recently that. You really liked or things that and also maybe a little bit of both. Things that maybe they've done that you're not really happy about. Yeah, I think Apple's moving in the right directions for most things. I mean, obviously the technology is better every year that gives more choices, more things to play with, more opportunities, more great hardware that inspires people to but hardware and then wanna go find software for it I think that over the years they have been given us a lot more stuff. They are giving us stats now about our apps and about our sales and how they are being used. They are giving us better tools for marketing. A lot of people complained when they recently, I don't know if you talked about it on this show, that the radius problem. Prompts the official ratings drop they've given us now instead of everyone writing up their own solution for like the app, please rate us five stars. They gave us a review controller that people complain about, but it's not exactly the way I would have written it, but I put this thing in my app and my reviews have improved. I'm getting more of them. And more of them are five stars. So I think that they do do these things. They just happen much slower than most of us watch. And so we're impatient, we wanna move forward, and Apple takes it time and does things correctly and it's frustrating. At the same time, I do feel like iOS is still being hindered a little bit on the professional side. The iPad sales are kind of slumping because it's still tied to iOS, which is really the iPhone's platform. And the iPhone is still more consumer oriented. And yeah, they did a lot of nice improvements in iOS 11, I'm really digging working on it on my iPad. I love that they added features only to the iPad that are not iPhone-specific. I hope that that continues, cuz really We need. The professional software is where an indie can really make a much better living. You're trying to sell people $1 apps or trying to start a social network without multimillion dollar backing and angel funding kind of stuff. That's not where most of us wanna be. It's hard enough to do our own marketing. The last thing we wanna do is hunting down funding, right, so a lot of us Would prefer to sell apps for $30 or $40. And these professional apps you get. Good apps. Really nice, professional types of artist tools and things like that you can sell at a higher price. And you can target that smaller audience. But the iPad isn't seen as a professional device as much yet as I look [INAUDIBLE]. So the faster that Apple can keep improving on the iPad and making it more of a pro device, the better [INAUDIBLE]. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've been a big fan, people know I've been a big fan of the iPad from day one. I still love it. Right when the new iPad Pro came out and then when iOS eleven was shown, i went finally they're giving this product like an actual identity that makes it different from iOS. It's not as much as you and I would like to kind of take it to the next level and really feel like Hey, we could maybe one actually get an Adobe Photoshop app but now it's other companies have stepped in to feel that void with Affinity Photo but at least it feels more like a device I can do more and hopefully they don't just stop at this. I would be disappointed though if in another two years it's the same as what we got now because they gave us so much more stuff. Yeah, the last time they kind of gave us a little bit of iPad stuff, yeah exactly was in the 2 years before we saw another thing. Like split screen ooh, right. It was like ooh, well look out guys. Yeah, exactly. [LAUGH] It's true and I didn't use it all that much because it was kinda janky. Yeah, now the way they've fixed split screen in the new version is much better and having the dot clearing and things like that are definitely going to make that more useful to me. I'm already using it more than I ever did. But I agree with you, I hop that this isn't an every two year kind of improvement thing. I know the iPhones know how to make their money and they really need to keep On top of that but at the same time, it's the same things with recently they announce there gonna do this iMac Pro. And there kind of reinvigorating the Mac Pro program after five years of that going nowhere. I have a feeling that someone at Apple is kinda waking up to this idea that well these Pro customers are very important to us, so Although we made 99% of our money on the iPhone we also have to take care of these pros as well cuz that's where our great innovations come from. And guess what, when you are making devices for pros that are niche, you don't have to make 60 billion of them. Every month then you can put higher tech stuff in them earlier without having to worry about the supply chain and everything else keeping up with that. So, I'm hoping we'll see faster innovation as a result of that. So twice of [UNKNOWN] iPad next year, that's my [UNKNOWN]. Baby, table iPad. Coffee table iPad. The Surface was again there but we don't really see that table thing anymore. Yeah, get me there. Get me there. Like a sitdown iPad [CROSSTALK] Just get me there. Joe, we're gonna ask you a couple more questions For any developers, I know there's a lot of people that listen to our show, basically they love the Apple ecosystem, and the things about it. We like to be a little more balanced, and keep it raw and real with how we feel about some of the things they do, but for any developer or someone who's curious about that, What are some, maybe a few bullet points that you can use as guidance for someone who's like you know what? I kind of do want to make an app. I wanna try an app. And what are some of those points that you would kind of say to someone that wants to dig into it, no matter what age they are? Yeah, first and foremost, realize that you can do it. I used to think that development was magic, just like a lot of people do. I would watch developers, and say I designed something, I'd say, here's what I want this button to do. And five minutes later, it'd come back to me, and it was working. And I thought, wow, I don't know how to do that, so that must be crazy hard to do. And then I started learning development, and I really think with tools like Swift Playgrounds, I've run through the playgrounds. This is after I learned all my development on Objective C. But I figured I wanted to dig into Swift, let me just download this app. I know it's kinda geared towards kids a little bit, but it'll be fun. And honestly, there is no barrier to that, you can learn how to do this. So that's first and foremost, if you want it badly enough You're going to stop and start a few times. Like the first couple of times I tried developments, I got really frustrated fast and I quit. And then I came back to it three months later, and then I quit, and then I [LAUGH], you know. But eventually it does click an eventually things start happening. And it's really, it's an amazing feeling when you're working on something for hours you're trying to solve this problem and then you realize it was a simple little thing that you were missing. And instead of being angry at yourself for missing it for three hours, you're just amazed that it finally works. [LAUGH] And it never ends with that. Development is a constant fun thing to be able to coax these computers into it. So I say absolutely if you wanna do it, you should try. You should experiment with it. Talk to people, find [UNKNOWN]. There's [UNKNOWN] all over the place in every kind of city. There's [UNKNOWN] there's other types of [UNKNOWN]. We even started a few of our own where we just get developers together and we just hang out and talk. Developers are incredibly generous people. They will talk to you and explain how they do things until the cows come home. And they're more than happy to share their knowledge, they're like any other kind of scientist. And so it's really fun, they are remarkably approachable once you get to meet them. And so yeah, if you wanted to do it. Then the next thing is like don't have expectations that you can make it in hours. I know a lot of people got an [UNKNOWN] element thinking that it's my ticket. I'm just gonna make an app on it and [UNKNOWN] and I'm free and it doesn't really work that way [LAUGH] If you don't want to make a living that's fine. A lot of people make software. I made my little aspect ratio calculator because I wanted to learn how to develop, not because I'd ever think it would make money. And it doesn't make a whole lot. I mean it makes me pizza money every month. That's important man. Pizza. That app gives you a free pizza a week? Let's not undersell that, man. The point is you set your expectations properly. If you want to start a business, go learn about a business. That's a whole separate set of skills that go along with Building an app. And honestly, that's the only way to make as an [INAUDIBLE] in the long term. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be playing with apps. Lots of people put apps on the store for fun. They open source them. They throw them around, and they give them away for free. And that's just part of the spirit of building things. And that's fine, too. Maybe you build a tool that you wanna see that you don't see out there in the world. And who cares if anyone buys it as long as you get to use it. Awesome. Would you recommend that people get a graphic design background, or learn anything? I feel like that gives you an advantage, right? It certainly helped me quite a bit. And I feel like I still to this day, care about those things, like whenever I am working on a team, you know I'm. And then contract worker people. Whenever I'm working on a team, I always kind of team up with a designer right away. And I'll be like yay I'm your best friend because I know why you care about that being two pixels to the left instead of where it should be. [LAUGH] And so, I start, and that was one of the major reasons. That's why I got into it was like I want to fix these things, I want these things to look the way I designed them. And so I think it does help quite a bit, especially when you're using interface builder, which is the visual graphical way of laying out your views on an iPhone screen. And the more you're using those tools, the more graphic design background you have, the easier it's gonna be for you. I don't think it's a requirement, but it never hurts. I mean, a lot of developers really don't know anything about Design and they get along just fine. But I think the one's that do end up understanding their designers better and they end up communicating better with the designers better in the long run. Awesome, well Joe, I just want to say thank you so much for your time and your knowledge. Can you talk about release notes a little bit to someone who may have no idea about it because I think it's better to hear from the actual person who's involved in the show? Yes, sure. It is me and Charles Perry who is another independent developer. We met at a conference one year and we were chatting with each other. He is one of those really outgoing gregarious guys, and I'm one of these really shy people. He is one of the guys who makes sure everyone has dinner plans. When you go a conference Do you know anybody? Hey, you wanna come to the dinner? I went to the dinner with him once and we just had a good time. I didn't think anything of it. Two months later, he called me or emailed me and he said hey, you know what, do you wanna start a podcast? I'm like okay, why? [LAUGH] Why me? But he said I respect what you do, and you're an Indian, you've had some success with With Teleprompt+, and so I wanna talk about the business end of being in India. Because at that time, a lot of people were basically, you go to conferences, and all the advice was, just hire a designer and make a nice icon, and you'll make millions. And it was like, it's not- [LAUGH] Working out.anymore. And so we wanted to talk about what actually is involved in trying to build a business. And to my surprise, I thought we'd get 30 episodes in, and now we're on 200 and something. We've been doing this for five years. We started a conference a couple years ago. So every October we actually do a conference, this year it's in Chicago. It sold out in like a week, which is amazing to us, this year. So there are a lot of indies out there who want to build their business. So we're doing talks, instead of talking about Swift all our talks are about marketing, or they're about Building teams, and communication, and writing, and email strategies, and things like that. It's grown into its own kind of community and its thing and we're really enjoying it. That's awesome, Joe. Congrats on all that success, man, that's the power of the Internet, baby! That's right, that's right. That's the power of the Internet. Thanks again Joe for hanging with us. Everyone check out release notes and you can follow more of his work there. We're going to take a quick little moment to say bye to Joe and then we're going to come back and address and answer your voice mails because you know how we do. This show is all about you and us, together as one. Thanks a lot, Joe, we appreciate it buddy! All right, thank you. Thanks [MUSIC] And we're back. We are back, it just took a few moments to feel that beat. We're gonna hit you up with the voice mails now, we got three just in the course of like a day. Yes [CROSSTALK] See, if I'm telling you if you guys listen to the show, and you call in like right after it, you have such a better chance of like getting in. Totally. Okay, we're gonna go with it, these are just the voice mails for this week, or just to kinda catch up with you guys, and then again we will return in about two more weeks with the official show where it's beach am I Live cool let me put the phone number up on the screen if you are listening and can't see this number it is 1-800-616-2638 that is how to get through to us that's how the show is your show so again your name where you're from and just get your comments or questions We will get you on the show. Word. The show is your show, the show is my show from California to the- [SOUND] I don't know the other words. [LAUGH] All right, first call. Hei this' Jamie calling from the East Coast [INAUDIBLE] Jersey. [LAUGH] I still think Apple are putting everything else other than the iPhone On the back burner, and kinda just letting it all dissolve away, all that iPhone, or iPhone related products, like the iWatch and the EarPods. They cut support for the AirPort Extreme in Express, they've kinda been dropping the ball with Mac, iMac, and the Mac laptop lines. And now they're launching this speaker, but it doesn't seem like they have any clue what to do with these other product lines including all these sensory with this co-marketed or co-branded teams with these other manufacturers. Why is the. Why can't they make up their minds here and just decide. You know. They want to make one, or two, or three great products. And forget about the other ones, all right thanks a lot, bye. I think we have touched upon this in past shows but it just comes out of focus. And when you named even just for the iphone you're like, they have the watch, they have iPad [LAUGH]. But just thinking about this, just the iphone alone already has two very key products that surrounds the kind of the ecosystem of the phone. There is a reason why the Mac has been neglected and now they are like we need to pay attention to customers like Joe earlier said in the conversation. So it takes them a long time to kinda of what we like to use that word in Silicon Valley, pivot, and I think they have been they've just spread too thin with all these different categories That unless they increase their head count by double they're not gonna be able to keep up with demand. So, we'll see how it plays out really in the next two years. If we can be wowed by this new Mac Pro and if they'll show love, even from a software development side. You know, we talked about the iPad pro, hopefully that it'll see more changes and won't just get this bump up and in two years we see another bump up. That's just an indication of how thin their spread, and a lack of focus because, if you look at even something like their iPhone line, what we have, the entry level model which is, I guess is the 6s right now, which is like the cheapest model available. Then you have the 7, you have the 7 Plus. You have multiple models of the phone in sizes as well, so it's just all those things combined and that's just for one product line. So, we'll see if we can get Targeted a little more focused or you can't do everything. That's the problem and we've seen that from other companies that just can't do everything. Yeah Joe said something during that Apple likes to take their time and move really slow and get it right. I've never notice that before. [LAUGH] Right? I've never noticed that. Which like which makes any and then he also follow that app by saying it's very frustrating but that make sense like they do take a very long time and they wanna make a perfect and make it their way. Their perfect idea. Perfect, yeah. So, yeah. But it is frustrating. Yeah. [LAUGH] That's why you all listen to this show. [LAUGH] Zach. All right, next call. Hey Brian. What's up? For the touch ID for the new iPhone 8, I think personally that it'll be like I will incorporate it into the lock button somehow because if you notice the lock button Is a bit longer than the iPhone 7, and I think that's where it's going to go, but I would like to get your opinion on it. Love the show. Bye. Thanks for calling in. I don't know if, we've heard kind of things like that in the past, but at least based on the current rumors There's no indication that that's what they're actually going to do. I think it's possible in the future. But right now, things have lined up, whether or not we see it in this version or not. I still like the touch ID. But if the face scanning works as well as we expect it to or hopes it does I think people aren't gonna really care whether there's a touch ID anything, anywhere if this face scanning works as well as is believed to. We'll see about that, but at least for this next coming iPhone, I don't see them putting it on the power button. But you're right, there is space. I think also, though, the thing is that We've seen kind of finger print sensors in earlier phones from Japan where you kind of just slide your finger on it. It's about the size of a rectangle. You honestly would need a little more real estate on there, but again, I just don't expect to see it this time. Maybe down the road in the future, it could happen, but we'll see. After our podcast yesterday, the reaction in the YouTube comments was pretty big in regards to the the facial recognition. And one guy, he actually had some good points. Rat Rod Studios, DRR Customs Limited. I think that's like his car shop or something. He said, how would you unlock the iPhone if you had sunglasses on, or contact lenses? Are you outside in winter with a scarf and a hat. [LAUGHS] So your going to have take all this stuff off to unlock your phone. He's got some valid point though. He does. Your going to have to remove clothing to unlock your phone possibly. I think based on the algorithm, Those are great points I think though based on the algorithm, fine sunglasses no but- If they're using what they talked about skin tone facial recognition, potential iris scanning recognition, and movement so that you have a live face. I've gotta imagine maybe a combination of let's say x number of data points from all of those combined is what will unlock your phone right? So maybe Fine not your glasses, but maybe not your chin or anything or your cheekbones. But if you can see like your eyes the fact that you're moving around the fact that. Yeah. Who knows how the skin tone thing is, I don't think is going to be like you have to absolutely have a completely 100% pure Face Unlock. We don't know what this is all speculation right? which makes it fun. But I think he makes a great point of what exactly, what are the conditions To do it. Yeah, that was a great comment. Thank you for that. Okay, let's go to the next call, last call, actually. Hey Beech and Tong, I love the show. My name's Lucas, I'm from small town, Cedar Rapids, Iowa. My phone call this week is in regards to my current situation. I have the iPhone 6S Plus. I'm on the upgrade your phone every year program. And I was actually able to upgrade in March, but I chose to hold out for this next iPhone, the iPhone X. And I'm starting to get a little concerned. I see these rumors that it's going to be delayed until October, November potentially. I'm also seeing That allow people who have been waiting to upgrade to the storm, and I'm concerned that I'm gonna wait to upgrade to the next iPhone and I'm not even able to get through February March any way. Would that point may be I should keep the 7+now, and then an yeah from now, I can get the iPhone x. [UNKNOWN] or I'll get whatever the next one is even. So, What are you guys think I should do, my wife is no helping the situation, she doesn't, she's not telling me anything. [LAUGH] So just let me know what you guys think about it and remember Only you can prevent forest fires. Thank you. Smokey, thank you. I could tell you a way to prevent forest fires, you can't call your wife out on Apple Byte, cuz if she listens, cuz I know she obviously totally listens to the show all the time, clearly. And and he's calling out his wife on that. [LAUGH] Look I've talked about this before, a lot of people that are on the every year iPhone replacement, or upgrade program, although you're on it, typically from what I've seen and heard is that even though you're on that plan doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get that new upgraded phone on day one of the launch. Like it's been, a lot of people said, yeah I'm on the upgrade plan, but It took a week or two before I even got it. I mean it seems like if your on the upgrade plan you should get it right away. You'd think you'd get priority. Walk around like it's a trophy. Look I'm on the upgrade plan guys. That's like incentive to sign up buddy. You would think so. Got it day one buddy. You would think so. Yeah, you're there but you're second tier. So even if wait out, it doesn't mean you're gonna get it right off the bat. If you do upgrade it now, I don't know if it actually resets that one year time period now. I actually don't know the conditions of the program exactly to the T, so Either way, if you wait it out, you still may not get the phone when it comes out right away. Yeah, and then there's the possibility they're not gonna have enough in stock [CROSSTALK] with the larger one. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the rose gold one was gone, no one could find that. So then they were settling for different colors they didn't want. I, unfortunately, had to settle because they didn't have rose gold. Not! Not! I'm fine with my space right. Yeah. Cool so alright I guess that's going to do it for now. That's it. So look if any of you complained about the show I'm going to complain back to you because we didn't even have to do a show. No ones going to complain. Everyone's happy. You can complain no matter what. Yeah your going to always have complainers. Were on vacation and I ain't got no complaints. I'm soaking up the Aloha sun baby. Man I'm so jelly. I know, I won't talk about it anymore. So, anyway, thank you so much for hanging with us we will return after our break. Enjoy your time at work, with your family, with your friends. I would be certain of ways, baby. Hello. Hello, all right we'll see you guys next time, thanks for hanging with us, Aloooha! [MUSIC] [MUSIC]