-It's Tuesday, June 18th 2013.
This is the 404 Show on CNET.
I'm Jeff Bakalar.
-I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez.
-We're very lucky to have two fine gentlemen in the studio; One is a 404 regular and one I've never met before in my entire life but he seems like a very cool dude.
Scott Stein-- we all know and loved.
How you doing Scott?
-And then from
GameSpot Australia, Dan Chiappini.
Sir, how are you?
And welcome to--
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for being here and welcome to our fine-- well I don't wanna say fine-- more pathetic, studio.
We're both wearing green.
-We did have that in common.
-We got cold earlier.
-I don't get to know.
-I got the memo.
-You stole a green shirt and I've gotta get--
-You guys are little liar, I like that.
So Dan-- Dan works for GameSpot Australia, as I said just now and he was at E3, although we did not
---which is unfortunate.
-It's a crazy show, you know how it is.
-It's a mad house.
-I've got one question.
-I believe there's a hand Scott.
-Was there really in and out giving station-- in and out burger station in E3 this year?
-I didn't see that.
Did you see that?
-There was a picture of Miyamoto eating in and out burger on Twitter somewhere and it looked like he was in the walkway between halls.
I don't know if they pulled that in and out food truck.
-No, I didn't--
-That's why didn't have them, I'm fine.
-I haven't seen one.
-I didn't see that.
-Sorry for distraction, I just want to make sure.
-I'm really upset now because I--
-Like of all the
thing, LA's got going for it as far as I'm concern is in and out.
-I know, I missed it last year and now I certainly missed it this year.
-Well, don't worry about that.
We can get to the food stuff later.
-There's always a time.
-I want-- you, so Scott didn't get to go to E3 this year because you were at WWDC--
-Which is what again?
-That is the World Wide Developers Conference that Apple has, which is basically Apple's version of Google I/O to say-- somebody said they're sort of like parallel--
-Apple's version of Google I/O.
-Thought I'd gonna guess.
-I'm sure they would love to hear you describe that one.
-I said that because-- I've never been to WWDC.
-So to me, that was how I categorize it 'cause I've just been in Google I/O and they were in the same exact building.
So it's not just-- I've been in Moscone, but these are in the same exact building at Moscone.
So it's like parallel universe.
They were both-- he knows we're held in the same room with the little Accordion door that opens up.
-But, one; Google I/O had lots of pavilions and once you're in as press, you're the same as
developers whose running around these little-- there's the press conference and there's a lot of like the Exploratorium of little weird things.
Apple's-- the press event is one thing, the developer stuff is the second thing and so--
-There are no fun pavilions in the halls.
It is sessions-- that's the focus and so we didn't-- I didn't get to be part of that.
-So, did you--
-So as there for the keynote--
-But what I wanna know from you is, did you have fun?
Did you enjoy what you saw?
Because, I know you were upset
that you missed E3.
Dan, you should have seen like he was like texting me with like sad faces.
And then I sent you a-- and then I sent him a photo back of me, Eric Franklin and Mark Lucey just being drunk and partying it up.
-I was not in a party.
I got to go out to a quiet dinner-alone one night and then next night, I went out to dinner--
-Quiet dinner alone?
-Quiet dinner with Kent German and Dan Ackerman here.
We just wanna-- after we watched the Sony
event on a stream.
-That was like-- and I went home to my room--
-And then charged everything.
-What a sad existence you live out there.
-It was said.
It was not [unk].
-All right, so clearly was an E3 and it seems like it was the mostly underwhelming event, right?
What was the biggest thing that stood after you, because I wanna catch you up on E3?
-Well, I felt underwhelmed by both Google I/O and WWDC and maybe that's-- because I'm not a developer.
But I thought, you know, Google I/O--
I wanted a new version of Android OS.
We got iOS 7 in Apple's event.
-But then, I thought last year you had a whole bunch of new Macs and you're thinking, "Oh, MacBooks.
Okay, what are they gonna have now?" And they only unveiled half of them.
They're only-- the MacBook Air, which we just reviewed and the battery life is insane.
-But, you know, if you're a battery life lover, which you sure you're a laptop user.
But that's like they're not changing the equation.
Last year, the retina displays MacBook Pro.
-What about the Haswell processors in there?
-These have Haswell
processors but the retina display ones have not been updated yet.
So those were not there, probably because they're working on some other--
-I'm okay with that.
They're working on some other cool features and maybe staggering it out, but last year there was a whole new device and at least you could look at and say-- me, I'm not on the laptops but this is a different laptop, whereas this year they didn't have that.
-An iOS 7 was the big event that I was curious about and-- I don't know.
It's hard to tell.
I don't hate the look of it like I think some people really don't like the way it looked
-It's a pretty big departure from--
-Yeah, it is.
-From what they're normally known for.
-I don't hate that.
I really like the control remote that pops up.
But these are features you've been hoping for a while.
-So I said, okay, so they got that.
-They're just playing catch-up.
-Most exciting thing to me was this little bit of news that leaked out, you know, that became a story about allowing iOS controllers finally.
-We've been talking about it for years.
-Right, with the game-controlling, yeah.
-It's only you'll be able to do this and so, that is a huge moment especially with the E3 that, you know, will this solidify the landscape that between Android and
Nvidia Shield and the controller support there, and iOS controller support will develop-- mobile developers now say-- okay, well I can make this cool shooter because I know it'll support both and I don't have to worry.
-That's kind of exciting but iOS 7 itself, and plus they didn't even show it on the iPad.
-They've showed it all on the iPhone.
-What's up with that?
-I asked that question in an article but apparently,
-No one wrote back?
-There are pictures that have shown up showing iOS 7 on the
That's what it looks like but I wanna see if there are new features.
-I don't know.
The beta for iPad will be out in a couple of weeks and we'll see but I think that iOS as a whole needs more than just a visual redesign.
-I got you.
-There's a great opportunity to say like we can change all the stuff on the phone.
But now we've got all these tablets.
Let's think about how those can be better as computers.
They shouldn't-- I think they have less in common as devices.
-Then, they tried together iOS but why make them--
build the same?
-That's what I want.
So I felt unsatisfied but it was like the first event this year.
Their first event since last October that Apple had.
-So I felt like it's kicking off where eventually be a lot more events coming into the Fall.
You know, there's a feeling of impatience for me, which is like-- the Mac Pro, I'm not even counting into the equation 'cause it looks attractive but that's not for me.
-You're not alone with the impatience thing.
-It's like the vibe is sorta like, "Oh, they're not releasing
products anymore, really".
And the frequency is what they've been used to sort of doing.
And you get to this point where you said, when is it gonna happen and then, you know, these two phantom products; the iWatch and the Apple TV, which, you know, whatever.
If they emerge or how they emerge-- were they even be we think they'll be?
-But now you get the sense of-- that's like 2014--
-That's the future man.
-And then what's in the fall?
Is it just like newer iPads and newer iPhones and--
-You know, is it just like iterating.
But then on the other
hand, you know, like I had this as I reviewed the 11-inch Air.
I think like hard to be excited about.
On the other hand, if you're buying one, the first thing I think about in the laptop is battery life.
I always have.
-Ten to 14 hours of battery life.
-That's an awesome recommendable thing.
They're the best that we've seen by far.
So that's huge.
The rest of it, how much do I care about touching a laptop?
I don't know for sure.
-But Windows 8 makes you care about
touching a laptop so if you don't get touch in the Windows 8 laptop--
-You're gonna feel stupid.
-Because there's a chance your apps will not be fun for you if you don't get touch.
-I got you.
-It's like-- that's why.
It's not that I'm like dreaming of touch in a laptop.
That's why I feel like Apple-- but the screen resolution.
I want a retina because you look at the iPad right next to it--
-And it [unk] in comparison, right?
-Yeah and you think-- wait a second.
This is already here on an iPad--
-With the problem.
-Look how great this is.
Why can I just get that 'cause it's like a
similar size device.
It's not 'cause the battery life and everything else but that's how I feel.
-Fair enough man.
-Can I ask you a quick question?
You mentioned some of the amalgamation of the mobile and the traditional gaming space and it's an area I'm really interested to see pan out.
-Do you really think support the standard controllers for mobile and tablet is really gonna bring the two together?
Do you see them as a single platform or they-- 'cause at the moment they're very much competing platforms.
I feel like they could and I feel like it's a
story that's kind of like emerging because the question is this: Do you really believe in mobile gaming's capability other than controls?
And I feel like-- I've got to play with Nvidia shield, finally 'cause I hadn't--
-It's not a console level.
-But it's like they're getting closer and you wonder with another year at these things.
Will they start becoming more acceptable?
And will the controllers really feel seamless?
And will they be well-designed enough?
I think it will matter because you look at like, when they're announcing games
They're using Night Silver Public and you're seeing like real series games coming out and a lot of these, the limiting factor might be the controls and I think that Android is not making a lot of money and I wonder if it's because in a way like you look at Xbox and PlayStation development and developers can say, it's like a one platform.
-And with Android and iOS they sort of like 2 different worlds because the way their rules are.
-They can be like the same much more
comfortably, maybe it's more profitable.
That's what I was thinking.
-It's a weird thing, right?
-You can then do stuff.
-I think the Apple ecosystem allows people to buy more for whatever reason, which is more comfortable with it now.
And it's weird 'cause in the beginning they were saying--
-You know where we'll have Android phones.
-I'm moving in to this next generation way free to play could be-- and it's really coming out the mobile space that could be really attractive for cross device platforms--
-Of course, yeah.
-Buy the free to play version on your Xbox or your PlayStation.
-And then you have the companion experience on your SmartGlass tablet or your, you know, your Android device.
-Yeah, I think it would be great and the ability to stream to TVs via both Apple TV and things like what Nvidia Shield's doing.
The one issue that I have is I burped into the microphone.
-Please, this is a family program.
-And I was like--
-We're all friends here.
-I ate radish last night.
-You're such a weirdo.
-The one thing is-- and I thought about this playing a game.
I hate to say
reliability but, I think it has to be said.
You always hear about like iOS games or other games like crashing out.
And then, I said, well that doesn't really matter.
But then you think, well if you start playing really serious games that, you know, is it gonna quit out to the main menu again.
And you say, what happened?
Oh, I guess that's what it's like on the tablet.
You don't-- you never see that or if you have a game just crashed out on an Xbox.
-Yeah, but you didn't pay $0.99 for that Xbox thing.
-That's the thing.
But you're getting
there, the Xcom is gonna be 20 bucks this week.
-I mean, but that's like of diamond or rough-- I don't know.
-If you can't tell I don't give a crap about how cool the game.
I don't-- I really just don't--
-But I'm saying like real series games in the mobile.
I think that's the question to me.
It's like, how rock solid reliable in a lot of ways?
Will the experience be that like between saving and playing?
Will you-- and even streaming 'cause the stuff I've seen at times when you stream on the TVs, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's a little weird.
And you'd wanted to be
perfect, and otherwise, you just go back to your console or your PC.
-Yeah, I just-- for me.
I want them separate.
I don't-- and I know we're heading towards the crossover of them but I just-- I wanna keep, you know, my swipey flicky games in one area and then my, you know, my Skyrim--
-In your desktop--
-in another area.
-Those worlds are very, very quickly imagining that.
And I'm the only one who seems to be like standing on the front line, you know, with like blocking the tractors and the--
-But what if you could
like, I don't like--
So now I gotta carry out a freaking game controller attachment for my phone.
-But what if like your tablet was powerful enough that you-- I mean, I don't know about streaming games like on Live or Gaikai.
I'm not sure about how the old player goes broadband.
-But it you had it on your device and then you're just locally streaming it on to your TV and you've got a controller and you're going on vacation.
-If I'm doing that--
-And it's Skyrim.
-That's probably-- that's okay.
I'm okay with that.
-Like, wouldn't that be cool?
-It will be and that on Live thing
kinda work pretty well, didn't it?
-Here's a thing, that's why I say the caveat.
I played around with it and it did if your broadband--
-Was really good.
-Was reliable enough but like much more than a NetFlix where-- if it fuzzes out you're like.
Well, I'm getting the story with it, you know--
I can make out all the things that's--
-I'll get my story.
-It happened to me and that was like.
Yeah, you know, I can make it through.
-You know, like I tried to watch--
-You're not gonna watch that with the game.
-Well, I try to watch the finale Game of Thrones in our hotel out in LA.
-And I didn't know who I was looking
at and I was like, I can't watch this.
This is crazy.
I don't know if I'm in King's Landing or Winterfell.
This is absurd, right?
-NetFlix does it-- like it's slowly taking off your glasses.
Or you're getting like drunker and drunker, yeah.
-Then it's like, how this gets to be totally incomprehensible?
-And that's my point there.
-That's my point though actually.
-Like if I can barely watch a non-interactive, you know, source.
How the hell am I gonna play on live where I-- where anything less than in perfect HD stream is unacceptable?
And that's my
Local is different though.
-Locals is another-- that's a different thing.
-I always impress the Shield.
-But the Shield won't work over out of like network Wi-Fi, right?
-I'm pretty sure this is only just for home.
-For home use.
-It takes the experience you have on your PC in another room.
-And stream Steam.
-And put on the handheld.
-But look at that, that was-- it looked really good but you have other PC on all the time.
-But it's gotta be a decent PC, right to run?
-You know, you have to get to the point where you imagine the PC is an always on like hotspot, that's like somehow in your home.
-Coolest thing I saw out of Nvidia at E3 was Shadow Play.
I think Shadow Play is really cool just because it's like, you know, Shadow Play-- did you hear about Shadow Play?
-No, I didn't see it.
-So Shadow Play is their DVR for games.
And, you know, when you use fraps to record a game on PC, it just tears away your frames per second.
It just destroys it but the demo I saw only took 2 or 3 frames away, which is negligibly you can't even tell.
So they do sort of like an on the
fly encoding, which is built into the GPU of their cards.
I think the-- I wanna say the 650 and up--
-Have it in there.
So as long as you have a card like the GTX 650 or higher, you can use Shadow Play.
Take advantage of that on board, you know, real time encoder and it spits out a 1080p video and you just-- you keep Shadow Play on and it's just this little button that sits in the corner.
You combine it to a hotkey and then it's always
recording 2 minutes of your game play.
So you never have to go like, okay now I'm gonna record.
You could just feel like, holy crap that was great what I just did.
Hit a button and you save it.
-And that's the problem with fraps, is that the total front load exactly the sub board that you wanna record and then trying to do it.
For sure which totally sucks.
And this, you know, like I said, barely compromises frames per second.
-And I was pretty impressed.
-I don't record my games.
-You will man.
-Is this like a generation where-- like.
-Whether that you want to--
-I think it is because I literally never have-- are you into that Dan?
Do you record your game play?
-I don't record
my stuff but--
-I'm seeing-- we're doing log to Twitch streaming.
-In the Australian office head and then in the cross GameSpot.
-And more and more.
It's fascinating to see why people do it and what people would tune in for.
-And there's some crazy percent of-- say there are 40 or 60 percent of people who watch-- given piece of content on Twitch.
We don't actually even know-- so that's--
-Yeah, that's weird.
-Yes it is.
-Is people just wanting to watch other-- was getting better if they are in game or watching the pros or people that are just really great presentors?
Yeah, that's interesting.
-For me like I can't watch someone playing a game.
I think that's the most brutal stuff ever.
But I could watch maybe like a high light real of great Call of Duty kill or something like that maybe 30 seconds long.
That's the most I can do and then I just, you know, flomp around on the floor--
-And might if I was like apprehensive and felt that I really needed some help, you know, with this like I was like always loosing and then I just said.
I just wanna watch a little bit to make sure what was happening.
-What should I've been doing?
Let's get back more to E3.
Scott wasn't there.
Dan and I were there.
What was your favorite thing there?
Let's just start it off like that 'cause we do have a bunch of questions from listeners that we do want to address.
But, you know, what was your sense about it?
It's kind of a really large open-ended question.
But what was the big takeaway for you?
-Yeah, looking at it in total--
-I think probably the big memorable moment, whether you were there or not will be the Sony
-And it was a blood bath.
-It was, yeah.
-I'm not 100 percent sure that Sony is completely on the level with some of the stuff they've talked about.
Some dubious language if you look closely.
And it's really easy to kick the guy who's already down.
-Oh, my God.
-And Microsoft have that first press conference, the early one though.
Saw that on TV and sports everyone went-- I'm a gamer.
-What's in this for me?
-And being outside of the US is-- well half the services we'll never see.
ESPN or the NFL
We don't even have NetFlix, man.
-Yeah, not treating the international committee too well.
-Yeah, or cable is not a big thing in Australia because all of our paid TV services on the Xbox 360 is slowly migrating to digital services anyways.
Seems a little redundant to have an HDMI into-- plug in a device that we're not even using.
-In terms of overall.
Nintendo was soft, I think.
You know, it played really safe, played really predictable.
So I think-- PlayStation was a little lacking in its own software.
-I thought that too man.
-They try to [unk] that is-- they've got Gaikai so they've got the entire potentially PlayStation legacy catalogue.
-Which is great.
-But I have a PS3.
I still have a PS2.
-I mean-- all that's now.
And that Gaikai has not even have an Intel 2014.
And then, even then or probably region by region.
It's like US and-- yeah.
-And who knows, I mean you know, that's all right now, all that is,
is just talk.
-No one seen it, no one's played it, no one knows Jack about it.
-I just want-- I keep going this every generation and Nintendo is the biggest tease of this with virtual console.
-You've been teased by them?
What do you mean, in what regard?
-It's kinda weird too, right?
-Well, I mean this.
You-- I want-- again NetFlix suffocation, maybe that-- more like HBO Go.
Nintendo as gateway to all of their content, you know.
The virtual console-- I don't care about a
Neo Geo game from like-- I'm sorry.
What's wrong with you?
Come on, get out of here.
-But I do care that every Nintendo game in their history within reason like everything should be available in this like digital service.
PlayStation-- you know, again they have sort of like a great back catalogue with what's on PSN.
-But it's very spotty.
It's all over the place in no rhyme or reason.
So again, make that available and that every time you buy into the PlayStation experience you're getting
this back catalogue of supporting content that's kinda perpetual in the sense, you know, I just don't understand why these guys aren't doing that like flip the switch.
Make that happen because that's the biggest strength that each of these guys has?
-That's my biggest question to that.
-Like even for a second, suspend all your disbelief about how could they have gotten themselves in the decision they're in right now with their choices with the vault, if you will.
-Of all of that amazing stuff that the installation base for that is in like the hundreds of millions.
-And it's just seems to be under-locking key for no good reason at all.
-I think I've got a reason.
-Okay-- this is fantastic.
I think the reason is you look at Sony and you look at Microsoft and they both take risks.
Yeah, they both got a whole bunch of new IP whether it's their own or in partnerships through their parties plus all of their independent game development.
When you look at Nintendo, they're not taking a lot of risks at all with the franchise.
-On the software side of things, yeah.
-So if they would open the gate and give you everything from the back catalogue
and then try this out, a new Donkey Kong country game--
-Wouldn't everybody describe a [unk] towards the cheaper older games that use a lot of the same mechanics and then, you know, you tend to refine stuff over time.
It take the universities and, you know, on lab, and they tweak it on--
-Slap a new code of PN on then.
But, you know, the Megaman announcement for Smash Brothers was one of the highlights of that press conference.
-It's not even one of their characters.
-So it is kind of--
-I think they'd be cheating themselves in the [unk].
loved it and I loved it but I don't think they can afford the risk of causing their throats with selling new software that's--
-It's an interesting way to look at it and I've never heard of anyone proposed that before.
-That's-- it's kinda brilliant because, yeah they've like, they've sort of, you know, built this foundation that they can expose, you know, they're like look how far we've come but we can't tell-- we can't share with you how we got here.
-You know, I buy a Mario Kart every year.
-Mario Kart doesn't change much every--
-No it doesn't.
-You know, this year you can go upside down.
-But I still buy it.
-But that's not a huge amount of innovation there.
-You know, but to that point you're-- I totally agree with you and I'm super glad you brought it up but I think that's even though they've refused to open up that catalogue for-- I mean your reason is valid enough for me.
I mean, everything they makes a lot--
-Sort of crack pot.
But it makes sense, you know, whether or not that's actually the case.
just makes sense.
So then it makes you wonder like, all right, fine.
We'll, you know, the Mario World Game is pretty, you know, that's really-- it's different but it's not.
You know, we've seen that sort of stuff before.
So then why don't they figure out a way to open up the doors to different software where it's like, okay, maybe like a first-person mega man or something like that?
The way they gave Metro that treatment on game cure or something like that.
They stop doing that.
-They stop doing that.
-Right now you're in a very conservative period.
-And that's what upsets me the most about all
their games is that they seemed to have-- they seemed to be stuck in this, you know, sort of retro thing and I kinda hate that.
I kinda hate the fact that I'm always gonna be looking at this 2D, you know, Donkey Kong.
And I'm always gonna be looking at-- for me I want something bigger and better and, you know, and it's so funny like they talk and talk and talk about all these old school franchises being reborn.
And then they're like, I mean they're [unk] in this game, you can rip people's faces off and it's
so out of place.
I wouldn't be surprised if that came from someone--
-Oh, there is no-- platinum games supposed to be losing their minds.
I mean, they're just like they've-- clearly the game's great.
-I played a bunch of it.
It's a lot of fun but it's just like, my God, no one's gonna play this.
We have to get this out on other console.
-And bring man legends, you know, the people who bought were used for this great experiences.
It's one of the highlights of last year, a year before?
-I bought device based on and then it slipped then slipped again, and then it went multiplied and--
-There's no real incentive to buy the Wii U version of anything.
Except for the Nintendo game, so I agree.
And so I don't-- I like Nintendo [unk] their own games but you think about like Pick Man was like a new game, you know.
What have they've done?
New Super Mario Bros.
was the turning point.
That was I think the moment that this retro thing happened and never turned back 'cause I was excited when that first came out.
And I was like, they're really smart ideas.
This is-- you know.
It's kinda fun just acknowledge at this old school thing here.
-So I think like it's fun.
-Now there's 3 of
sequels of that.
-Right and I've read a Kirby and the Donkey Kong and we're gonna do another Donkey Kong in another even more 2D thing.
It is really tiring but I keep thinking of the vault like the Disney vault like--
-Yeah, I know for sure.
-You know, they're bringing out games, they should try.
-But they've done some really interesting stuff like Fantasia was another game that a lot of-- did you see at the E3?
-Yeah, a little bit.
-Yeah, I get to played it before.
Yeah, it's really cool.
-That's a Disney property but it's not a Disney game.
I think they'll have a really hard sell on that because of their only
expected to be Fantasia, the film, the game.
But it's a totally different experience.
-I love the fact when they announced that it was Fantasia.
I was like-- really?
'Cause I saw Fantasia as a kid and loved it.
I might be one of the minority with that but I've always love Fantasia so I did wanted to be more like from movie and they're like, no.
'Cause probably there aren't that many people clamoring for like things from every-- Fantasia.
-I don't think-- all right.
So we figured out what Nintendo's doing wrong.
How do they fix it?
Don't look at me,
-Don't look in to the agenda.
-Yeah, 'cause they clearly don't know either.
So Scott, this press conference that they had, were you there at the booth?
-I was-- yeah went to the other room.
-They know how you'd fix it.
I wanna get into that.
-All right, hold that thought.
I get-- what was it?
It was like Tuesday right before the doors open on the show floor.
So, you know, we pack in there at around 10:00 and it's a small stage and Reggie gets on and he starts talking about, "you're gonna wanna play the game." And he keep saying, "play
the game" and I'm just like-- people are looking around like what?
Is this guy alright?
You know, like it seemed like a crazy person.
It was like nuts and, you know, they brought out all these-- all the Japanese like--
-What do you mean?
Is it like a metaphor or was it--
-No, he meant like that was their mantra for this press conference, this mini press conference and he was just so ineffective and absurd.
-Yeah, I think you wanna play every game.
-Yeah, I was like-- yeah, we play-- it's like the--
-That's the whole point of gaming.
It's like you play
the game and I'm just--
-You're sounding like Jim Morrow with that-- not Jim Morrow, who was it?
-But you play--
-To play it and win the game.
It was just freaking me out and--
-I mean, what was your reaction when you have hearing this sort of--
-I was not in that press conference.
-But you didn't see him say any--
-I saw some of the reports though.
So, Scott do you have the answer?
Do you have the answer for Nintendo, how they fix it?
-How they get out of this hole?
-I keep rooting for this solution.
Well, first of all, you got $500 and $400 consoles coming up, which are expensive.
-They are gleaming black, adult targeted systems.
I think in a lot of ways, Microsoft Net and-- I was watching remotely and I keep-- I know I got yelled at for saying they seemed like two very similar approaches.
I really think they are.
I think you can take a look at the DRM and the other issues of used games for when push comes to shove and these games-- and the systems come out, I think they're gonna be more similar on those policies than different because that's the way the landscape's going.
I think they're just talking points
and Sony is doing it 'cause they know.
And even the pricing of the consoles and what you get in the consoles, you know, one has a camera, one doesn't.
I feel like this is posturing.
But the point being that they left the kinect, I mean-- it was kind of a [unk] anyhow but like, you know, there's a whole family-oriented gaming thing with your hand in the air and whatever.
That's like gone now and so I feel that these are less approachable as family systems.
Nintendo for better or for worst still is a very-- I know a lot of people that just got 3DSs.
-For their kids.
-That's like the only thing that they can really hang on.
-Yeah, it's because it's something you just stick in their hands.
If they drop it on the ground, it's not the end of the world.
It wasn't a phone.
I hate to say it but that's the reality of the stuff now and they're fine and you know there won't be anything weird pretty much in the games and they're not too connected, which is still an appeal to parents.
But if you can drop the price of the Wii U down to 250 bucks, and then I
would say something to work.
I understand it's crazy.
This is not fun for gamers.
-I still don't think too that this is cheap enough--
-It's gotta be like 199.
-But I'm gonna say you this.
The senior citizen market-- I sound like I'm nuts, right?
They had the senior citizen market eating out at the palm of their hand because of fitness.
I know relatives--
-I have relatives.
They got the Wii and people who never play games you'd be shocked who got the Wii.
And I'm not saying they are senior citizens--
-But I don't think--
-[unk] angry, but--
-But I don't think that demo--
-Who calling a senior citizen but--
you're talking about the people who the Wii was the only console they've ever bought.
You turn casual games and some of this got eaten up by the iPhone.
So you're sort of-- people who bought it for the fitness part which may have got eaten up by everything having a pedometer now.
But whatever it is, there are lot of people out there that buy the sense.
So-- cruel but there's a brand association.
You might buy a certain technology without understanding technology.
If you've got demographics that understand the Wii and for them, technology moves at a slower pace in the rest of the world, do you say, I only buy
a blank this many years.
The brand association is still strong.
-Go for your demographics as what I'm saying like understand that you had everybody and you still kinda do.
And don't forget that.
Don't make it about like nerdy retro gamers.
Don't make it about man-children with Mario.
You've gotta remember your original mark, it was much bigger than that 'cause you're--
You're gonna lose everything.
-That's the thing though that they ignore their--
-Sorry, I just pissed off a different market--
I agree with you.
-And I did have that but I think a lot of the crashed that we've seen financially in the
market places been because Wii software wasn't selling.
-It peaked and they sold bunch units and you couldn't get them anywhere and they're super rare.
And then it died.
Ends-- end of the point.
What was your other point?
-No, that's-- I mean, that's it but that was my main point and then also the battery life on the gamepad sucks, so you have to sort of make that--
-Oh, that's the least of their problems.
-But it points out that if that's the one controller you're packing in the console--
-And it's that kinda broken.
as a stand-alone, that's not-- you really have to keep recharging it.
-You gotta make that thing that comes in a console so that a regular person who uses it--
-Doesn't feel that it's so awkward to deal with.
Just revamp that controller pad.
It's just-- not even the console.
Just revamp that and aim it and more people but keep it simple.
And I really feel like you'd have a market because $200 consoles-- that place and fun games, there still an area for that.
-These systems are way too complicated for a lot of people.
-I think, but I think you make it and
hold-- I know if you wanna get to-- so fine.
Make it 200 bucks but then you're just gonna move hardware.
You're not necessarily gonna move software.
And the thing that you do start moving software you got-- then these games need to be $30.
-But the thing that you sell a lot of Mario games.
-Need catalogues too.
-You know, and I'm sorry like no one should have to pay $50 or $60 for a new Donkey Kong game or new Mario Kart game.
-It's not the way it should be.
It's a $40-game.
So you take out the Kindle route, you like have the whole--
-It just go low, low, low.
-E store and then you have lots of content you could sell.
-What do you have to lose?
What do you have to lose?
they keep toying with this 'cause these things like in the Wii U every week or for a while they've had these like retro-- they put the retro games out.
-You know, for-- was it $0.30 or you can--
-Yeah, Super Metroid.
-You can-- $0.30.
-That's actually free but for some reason they're charging you $0.30 to track it or whatever.
-Just to show you, look--
-Get a credit card on file.
-Yeah, you have credit card on file.
-And just to prove to people like, okay this works.
-Like I can do this.
-It proved it works.
-But then, you know, again, toying because just do that, don't make a $0.30-- agreed but these things on sale for not on reasonable amount of money.
-And then you could
have people buying-- you'd think that like you said, this prove something in that--
-You can spend lots of $0.99 purchases and spend a lot of money.
-Or spend nothing and spend a lot of e-map purchases.
-Right, or an app purchases.
So you have a lot of options if you're an Nintendo at least you can think that way.
There's a lot of problems.
I also don't think there's enough on-board storage on the Wii U. But--
-The other-- you made with core gamers and Nintendo ignore that audience for 5 years.
-You know, the Wii is for everybody.
-That was their whole thing but there was-- the best software came from Nintendo all their first part is--
-That would be the odd kind of diamonds of third party software development.
-Very rare but they were there.
-And now they're saying, you know, the whole unveiling of the Wii U was suddenly, we wanna go off to that market--
-Right, come crawling back.
You haven't played any stuff for a while but, you know, we've got all these games coming a lot of them and half of the Wii U launch line-up were software that came out on the Xbox 360 or the PlayStation 3 six months
or-- and some comes a year early.
-It was like 85 percent.
-Do something absurd.
-And they were charging full price.
-And, you know, the tech is cool and the idea of having a lower screen, you can take stuff like maps and inventory and the stuff that is traditionally taken space on the TV off makes perfect sense but it's not enough to buy a piece of hardware.
-And if anything, one of the big trends of E3 this year was SmartGlass and, you know, whether it's--
-Yeah, whether it's Microsoft trying to bolster its own surface sales or--
-Just supporting the device you already owned.
-Whether be a smartphone or an Android tablet or--
You can basically already kinda do that thing via another route without having to have a--
-Like with the division demo, they were using an Android tablet to do that.
Let's leave Nintendo and never speak of it ever again.
I wanna talk about other things at E3.
So you sort of helped cover the show for us remotely.
-What was your vibe for like the biggest things out of there?
We can talk forever about the press conferences and stuff
and I mean, I thought it was just such a circus with these people applauding and going crazy and just did not-- was not a fan of that.
-What are your most curious about maybe something that we can like shed some light on having been on the show floor?
-Is there anything like that?
-When I see-- when I was watching videos and checking out like what the, you know, what a lot of people were awarding as the best games in the show--
-I couldn't care about a lot of them.
-I feel like they're all just like, oh, yeah I've seen that.
-Yeah, Dan, was there a gain--
-That is actually really, really fit point.
-It's so true.
-They're been lost--
-Their very genre.
There are some creatures with horns.
-There's a guy with a gun and a ship and then there was like--
-There was the shooter, the riser.
-The candlestick maker.
They're just film those guy, fireball on the mountain side and--
-And the zombies.
Oh, my God.
-And the zombies.
-Everything's a goddamn zombies.
-I hated zombies 2 years ago and now I feel like, you know, that's coming to pass even more.
-At least that's not vampires though.
-But it's so-- it's ridiculous.
-But it is kind of
crazy when you think about it.
You know, even that when Sony announced the Order and you just watched this demo and no one seen the game play of this thing 'cause it's such a probably farfetched, you know, 2015 sort of thing.
You see this, you know, CG trailer and you're like, okay.
Here's something new, right?
And everyone pulls out guns.
-And then you like-- finally, I don't make a big issue about violence in games 'cause violence in game is fun and I get it and it's for older people, fine.
But it's just to me,
it seems like such a cheap way out and it's such a painful reminder of the lack of maybe willingness to take a chance.
What do you think?
-And that's categorized the industry for the last couple of years.
It should be their problem.
-The reality is it's all commercially driven now.
-And especially during the GF seeker and the, you know, up to a hundred million dollar gains that have been developed.
-You can't afford to take a chance.
-No you can't.
-And there's the odd title like Beyond and--
-And all the stuff that [unk] does.
-And I don't think it was a huge
-I think it did okay.
-But it was awesome.
-You know, did critical-- and those are the sorts of games that really pushed the medium.
-But you arrive-- we saw shooter off the shooter.
We saw the low-hanging fruit that everyone wants to buy and sell systems.
-If you were to trans-- I mean like-- this is the idea.
You could have like, you know, if you make a video game based on like check offs, you know, I don't know.
Check off play.
People sitting in a courtyard discussing life and politics and country doctors, and then you pull out a gun and you shoot as many things coming through
the trees as possible until they're dead 'til you get to the next level.
-But it's like how do you fix that?
-Is that they always gets-- come on.
I feel like it's-- I really believe like it's structural thing.
I think that the idea-- it's part of its fear like summer movies but I also think that the idea of guns and killing thing is sort of like a game structure that you think like that's how you track progress to get to the next point.
-But it's messed up because it kinda messed up.
-But it is.
-But it kinda is.
And even when we like hang our hats on games like BioShock Infinite.
and we were like, this is such an important game.
You're just shooting stuff.
-I mean, you're shooting people the whole game.
It's like you're shooting things to get to the next really interesting bit of stories.
Somebody's like telling you an amazing story and you're breaking it up with these little parts or so like, okay now go off there and just kill 20 people, pick up lots of guns.
-Well, that's why I think-
-I'll get to the-- over there on that corner is gonna be the next awesome bit of story but just go and do that.
-Well that's why I think the last of us is kind of, you know, even though yes you are killing things the entire and you're killing people.
-But it's more part of the story.
-There is-- you do
feel bad about it.
There is this sort of--
-Very brutally realistic element to that game where you're like, Jesus, I just shot that guy in the face.
-But it's also the mindset behind it and I agree with you and one of my favorite games of last year was Daisy, I don't know if you guys played at all.
So it was the amateur mode, the zombies again.
-It was fascinating because it was probably 70 percent social experiment.
-Multi-player only game.
Everybody's dropped into the world with nothing.
-So you have to go and find the hatchet and then use the hatchet to kill the zombies and then you come across another player.
And you don't really know anybody's intention.
-And sometimes you go often wild adventures.
People will now give you a gun.
Other times is I'll just gun you down because they can-- so, you know, those are the really interesting games, the ones that actually have a reason to consider--
-About your actions then.
-Progress for the sake of checkpoint.
Like in the point where like-- then the games that really have to use guns like the
movies that, you know, the-- or book where the story is about weaponry, then you say-- well that's great because it's so much a part of the story and that percentage.
But you're right.
It's the over alliance on it like-- the thing at E3, I really love every year, I'm like sort of champion like booster for this for like-- I love Sony's independent efforts with--
-Yeah, for sure.
And I think that's-- I think to me, that's-- for me personally, that's something why I'm buying a PlayStation 4.
-Like that's why I'm buying.
-[unk] company in journey and everything that happen
with-- what's wrong?
Unfinished Swan and their support of, you know, university programs and that, you know--
-It's cool man.
You gotta give them--
-Gotta give them credit for that.
-It's wonderful and I don't understand why other people aren't doing it and then you see every year at E3, like those are the ones I was remotely was most excited about.
They'd show like some people playing the games at the PlayStation zone.
And you see this game show like, oh, that's so awesome--
-And it's like a two-person team from like a suburb of
Chicago or something like that.
-Like Raise the dead.
Looked great outlast, looks great--
-Yeah, it all looked amazing.
-And they're basically like the way I used to feel about iOS and gaming in terms of the indie efforts.
But a lot of that--
-An indie film too?
-Has been lost in the mobile universe because of the free to play and in narrative genre garbage.
-But you're right like that's the stuff you want to see, those indie teams doing something new and exciting.
-And low budget,
and then it's like a little bit like a Tarantino-type, you know, getting his feet wet, you know.
And you wanna see where these guys are gonna go next.
I did wanna try the Oculus Rift HD because I thought the original was cool.
But I do think it came to the point-- I just wanna say 'cause I love Oculus Rift and I do feel like we're on a little too far overboard in the love I've seen for Oculus Rift.
I don't know if it solves the problems.
I don't know what it does and it's-- it is a headset
you have to wear, so--
-It's still a novelty sort of
-it's a novelty.
I felt like we've gone to the point where I think people are looking at this like the Crone at New York.
You know, it's like the--
-It's a bell like this like a mysterious thing you're hunting down like this tasty thing that only a few people have used.
-Or it's like Google Glass.
You know, it's like-- and then when it actually deploys, it will really change everything.
-I don't know.
-I gotta say, I'm more interested in the Oculus than on PlayStation 4 or an Xbox One.
-In getting an Oculus?
They, I mean they make it good--
-I'm excited to that but I feel--
-I mean, if you ever have the thing on it's--
-Yeah, it's amazing.
-It's out of this world.
-But I'm saying-- I mean, I felt bad criticizing the same time but it's only because now I feel that it has become, I think it's maybe one of the biggest stories on the floor once you sweep away--
-The Xbox One-PS4 war, I felt like Oculus Rift HD was like the story of the show.
So I'm just--
-It makes me feel like I'm in ready player 1, ever read that with the Oasis, right?
-Yeah, I don't know.
-You're gonna get like a little--
-I still don't think--
-A little apartment where you rot away and--
-Do you think there's like room for that yet?
Do you think there's like, you know, it's all about the compatibility and the software to back it up.
-I do think that eventually coming from several different directions at once.
I will call them like the virtual reality of gaming is gonna start becoming very interesting between motion interfaces beyond kinect even like-- I tried Leap motion and I was very skeptical but like trying it in a Google I/O,
It's a lot more accurate than anything else.
It's very precise and so things like that, things like-- I mean, wearable.
I don't know, Google Glass but things beyond that, stuff like that.
I don't want projectors in my room.
But, you know, I'm thinking that ways that you can deal with interfaces beyond what you see.
I just felt like all the stuff is gonna sort of convenient ways that won't be gadget-heavy that you'll have maybe new ways to play games.
But I don't know.
Oculus Rift, the one problem is I don't know if everybody's gonna want a strap
on it and set to play these--
-Wasn't that the whole point of kinect?
You know, the [unk] was, done pick up the device.
Don't hold something in your head, use natural motions that you're used to everyday--
-I think a way to get attention.
And now they can do distance as well.
Well if you get to the point where the Oculus becomes like a dominant form as a game accessory, then you've essentially taking game to a truly mobile landscape because you're no longer really a living room based.
I mean, you could be sitting in a cafÃ© zoning out with a little
deck-sized game system in your stuff.
-See that's the total oasis right there.
-Like stuff like that.
-Starbucks will have a hard time kicking out people.
-Just like Jack in.
-Abandon Starbucks for 48 hours.
What the hell is happening?
What was the source-- like if you had to pick a favorite mainstream game of E3, what would you pick Dan?
-I think of, I heard great things about the Watch Dogs demo this year, behind closed doors.
-Yeah, that was interesting.
-I saw the press conference once, I didn't see the other one, few people were out by that.
-The thing for me was probably,
Ubisoft's other new surprise announcement and that kinda makes me wonder whether they'll have the Steam to keep doing this [unk] every year.
-But it was the division which is the--
Everyone is all about this game.
-It looked phenomenal.
There was a point--
-I'm still not sold on it.
-Seeing it in the flesh though.
-I didn't know, I was-- I saw the demo.
-Oh, you saw the demo?
With the guy with the tablet and the--
-You know-- I don't know.
It's-- so explain to Scott what it is.
-Visually, there was a point where, if you'd pause it and said this is a photo.
-I'd probably wouldn't have [unk].
-It looked great.
So, explain to Scott what the division's about very quick.
-So they're calling it an Open-World RPG that will have small groups that will battle each other across the city effectively.
It's resistance kinda type of game.
-So, this is like-- well it's a virus, right on Black Friday right?-- that happens?
Some sort of organic thing happens, goes in the money and then it spreads across the globe and there's an act that's brought in, these guys coming to clean up a mess effectively.
But the tablet
and Smartphone integration is actually really cool.
-Because it's not that kind of terrible companion experience, where you get-- you'll do one thing.
It's a real world, real-time version of the console game from a different perspective.
You basically like a UAV, you're like the satellite that can--
-Shoot stuff while your buddies are playing.
-And, you know, you can say there are some visual compromises to get running on.
-Oh, yeah but that's okay.
-But it still looks great.
You can see the rest of the team running around real-time.
You can mark targets, you can call in-- and strikes.
It's all pretty basic stuff at the moment, but just the idea of being able to do that remotely.
There's [unk] way you can get online.
You could be helping someone else and they'll be push notifications server if, you know, your buddy's off playing and they're stuck somewhere, they're pinned down, they really need a help and you've got your device, you could just log in quickly, help them out and then go back to what you're doing.
-And that's where I see that cross of a point with this idea of mobile versus traditional gaming.
-And where the two will come together
in the-- more console adoption of consumer electronic tech.
-Rather than having to bundle in a device like the Wii U gamepad or the battle against the $0.99 app.
-I'll resist that integration-- the least.
When this like non-intrusive sort of like, well I'm just your floaty friend here helping out, you know.
-And [unk] off for that.
-It's never acquired.
-So, yeah that game still probably far away.
They said next year, right?
-I think I said 2014.
So we'll have to see where that goes.
Did you see the South Park game?
-No, I didn't.
I heard some good things though.
-South Park game looks okay man.
I'm not gonna lie.
It looks pretty damn funny.
-I'm excited about that one from what I saw last year.
-What about-- was there a game that peaked your interest covering it remotely?
-No, I mean those are the ones from-- yeah, I wonder for you guys.
Are there any other weird surprises?
Where there anything that you like--
-I did not expect that.
-I was blown a bit away by the Witcher 3. I thought that game looks absurd.
Yeah, I just think it looks great.
know, I mean I played 2 a little bit.
-And I never played one but, you know, everyone tells me the combat system in 2 is like such a huge improvement over 1. And what they're proposing for this 3rd one seems really over the top and I just-- I really, and it was.
I think it was easily for me, one of the best-looking games at E3.
And then let's--
-Yeah, go on.
-No, you finish the talk--
-No-- yeah, I just thought I was-- that's my big thing.
I was like, I was
straight up blown away as to what this environment look like.
-Did you find any totally weird surprises?
There are things you really-- it's like I did not expect this at all.
-I think the division was at one way.
-Then Ubisoft just keeps a little something up the sleeves so they had a surprise announcement.
-They're becoming the guys.
-The industry leads that, so much for sure.
-'Cause everything is leaked in-- a retail that gets an early, you know, poster or, you know, even before E3, the Dark Souls released an announcement was made because there was a banner across
the broad board.
-We need that, you know, innovation is so important but so as surprise.
-And the takeaway for me is, you know, that the games look better.
Yeah, everything look better 'cause it was running on Next Gen.
-Interesting aside on that one.
But for me, the takeaway was-- there wasn't a lot of change.
The games looked pretty but I still didn't feel like any of them gave me something like I've never seen before.
-Dude--but the trees moved so much now.
-The grass moves a lot now.
-I was wondering that.
Do you guys dare on the
floor like how did it feel?
Did you feel blown away by these graphics?
Did you find moments where you like, this looks really different than what I've seen or you're just kinda like--
-If you're a PC gamer with high-end junk, you're not gonna be impressed at all.
-It's the same thing.
-It's the same thing.
-It's arguably inferior.
-it's arguably inferior.
And that's-- that goes down to some with a little bit of like consumer magic that I feel like is still-- am I concern with these looking at them saying, why would they need to buy one?
I felt a feeling of them seeming similar.
It's like, I remember on the Wii, I don't know.
The Wii fought the same battle.
The Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 and that they feel something that looked different.
-And so all these people said at the time, Oh, I can't do this anywhere else.
-You kinda giving up really.
You couldn't do anything like Wii sports anywhere else easily, and I just wonder, has that time passed or is there anything-- but then like they're dealing with a commodity boxes
that or like kinda like PC gaming systems that you connect into your TV and other things now were offering streaming services in smaller boxes.
-Or another ways.
How do you carve out enough of the market?
Or should it be aiming for something more magical.
-And PC is trying to find [unk] into the lounge room and stuff like big picture.
-And potentially, you know, multiple versions of seam hardware from different manufacturers.
-It's a competitive landscape.
-Yeah, it's tough.
It's not-- it's clear cut at all as it seems
from those keynotes.
It's-- I think in the reality, if you'll buying stuff, it's a big mess.
-But we're gonna bring up about the graphics.
You said there's a shortage about that.
-Yeah, there was an aside on that.
Apparently, you mentioned that if you've got a PC-- high-end PC probably saying half of the stuff anyway.
A lot of the demos-- 'cause it's E3, it's a show about wiring the people to walk away and talk about places like this.
-And a lot of them winning from running on hardware.
We saw the PS4 it was running during the Ubisoft press conference, kinda stuttering
during the assistance pre-demo.
It went sort of a couple of gamers and they said, well, it's not actually running on hardware yet.
But this is representative of what we think the specs are gonna be.
Then, it came to what that all of the Xbox One software demos weren't even done on hardware.
-They were done on Nvidia 670's--
-Yeah, it's crazy, right?
-It's kinda crazy.
-Which is kind of interesting that AMD is the
hardware partner for both the Xbox One and the PlayStation 4.
-I didn't even know that's the suspect.
-'Cause they wanted to be stable and they run on Windows 7.
-So we saw a lot of PC demos--
-It's all figured.
-Oh, my God.
-We saw a lot of them.
-That's a big-- yeah, that's a big problem.
And it's good news for I guess for game developers in the sense that there's a clear through-line of like how gaming is being developed.
So if you're like making games, game survived.
But I don't know in terms of the hardware or platforms
It's like-- they're seemed to be like a big rolling mess of a landscape and there were like-- if you're a game developer, just try to make games and like don't get too locked down in all these like platform war thing.
-Because-- I mean, I just, I want a big thinker but maybe it's a time to be cautious and afraid of that because clearly, everyone in the landscape right now is afraid.
There's no one anymore.
I feel like between Apple--
-There's no one anymore.
-I guess maybe Google, but I don't really kind of-- between Apple,
Google, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo-- I'm sorry I don't see any big thinking right now.
And I'm surprised, they aren't like big, big new ideas or someone goes-- this is where the future is gonna be more like.
It's more like everyone is just kind of carving out these iterative, crafted-- I don't know.
It's a weird year.
-It's a weird year.
I think we're gonna leave it with that.
-Award it to no one.
-It was a weird year for sure.
-I wanna go back in time.
-Do yourself a favor.
Oh, first off, thank you guys both for being here.
Do yourself a favor.
Follow these guys on
Everyone knows jet @JetScott for Scott.
I have it up here on my screen, @DanChiappini follow him on Twitter.
-He's a good-looking man.
-A fabulous looking man if I don't mind saying something for myself.
Also we wanna keep it on my screen Ariel.
There is a fantastic CNET contest going on right now.
It's called From Old School to Tech Cool.
Who came up with that?
-Wait a second.
-Who came up with that one over there?
This is kind of cool.
You gotta take a
photo of something of your old tech that qualifies you for an upgrade.
And then I believe Katzmaier, our own David Katzmaier is gonna be judging these photos and the winner, the one who I guess he thinks is the most in need of new tech will win a Panasonic ST60, which is a 5-star rated CNET TV.
-CNET HD TV that we reviewed.
So, make sure you answer these contest.
Go on CNET's Facebook, which I guess is just Facebook.com/cnet--
I don't know.
Is that where you go for this?
Go on Facebook and-- I don't know.
And answer the contest.
-There's so many ways.
There's a few rules you gotta abide by and whatnot.
But you submit an entry, you can view other people's entries, which I'm gonna try and do right now and see what this is all about.
-I wanna see how weird this is.
-So yeah, you can see like people's junk--
-And you can calculate your [unk].
-Someone's like, hey you scantron still.
Check me out.
-Was it like an SAT?
-Yeah, well this guy's taking test and whatnot.
I don't know but go--
old standardized test room high school.
Go to cnet-- go to facebook.com/cnet, enter--
-And with that, in order to win, do not insert a picture of a calculator 'cause right now it's like that is a major--
-That mark is saturated.
-Yeah, you're not special.
-Like this is something impressive.
My man just got some sort of 1976 Hitachi color camera.
That's pretty dope.
-That's pretty amazing.
-What they can record to?
-I feel like this guy doesn't deserve a TV either because he could probably sell this to
-For the amount of money would cost to get a new television.
Anyway, from Old School to Tech Cool, that's the contest going on-- facebook.com/cnet.
And then while you're at Facebook, you check out the 404's facebook page.
That's always a fun time.
We gotta say goodbye again.
Thanks to Scott.
Thanks to Dan.
-Thanks for having me.
Next time you're in the states--
-I'll drop by.
-Please drop by.
I know you got a long trip ahead of you, so good luck with all that.
And we're back here tomorrow.
Justin's back on Thursday.
Until then, 866-
404-CNET is the number if you wanna e-mail us to firstname.lastname@example.org.
We will see you tomorrow.
I'm Jeff Bakalar.
-I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez.
-This has been the 404 Show.
Big thanks again to Scott and Dan.
We'll see you tomorrow.