GameSpot's The Lobby: The Divison's many glitch problemsGameSpot's Ty Root and Erick Tay talk The Division's exploits and consider the state of the player base in its wake.
[MUSIC] [UNKNOWN] tell me about your time playing the division this week. Man. I hear it's a real glitch festival. I feel gross. [LAUGH] I feel really really gross. You played with some friends. You had a good time. I still feel gross. It's like one of those things where you know what you're doing is just a complete waste of time. [CROSSTALK] Right. You could be doing something way better with your time, but you just stick it out. [CROSSTALK] Yeah. And you keep doing it. Nice weather on the weekend, as well. It was beautiful, yeah. I actually made myself go outside twice. [LAUGH] Cuz it was just like, this is dumb. What are you doing. So a game, explain to me what you're doing. You're playing The Division with some of your buddies, I heard from Ira who has been playing the The Division basically nonstop since it came out and a bunch of you guys have been on and off, I hear there's a bunch of sorta exploits going on there but it seemed like that stuff kinda cranked into high gear in the last week. Yeah I mean it's been going on. At least throughout the entire duration that I've been playing the game. And I think I started playing a lot on Thursday. Maybe Wednesday of last week. Pretty aggressively, you know, multiple like two to three hours a night. And then on the weekends man, I'm just playing it all day. But I was playing with some guys and it's just crew I run with and they're always geared out to the max and And. Did you also play with them in the crew? No, we we're not part of that crew. [CROSSTALK] No? Okay. No, I never even played in that game. No you didn't. That's a **** lie. You did with me and Andy. Well, I mean that was the only time I played it. We tried to go to San Francisco to visit our hometown. Yeah, it was great. Did we to to E3? We did. We finished that [CROSSTALK]. Anyway, sorry, sorry. The Division. Yeah anyways, so I played with these guys. They're both geared. All a good crew of people, and essentially they showed me a bunch of exploits. What people have been doing I guess for the last two weeks, three weeks, or maybe since the game's come out? I have no idea. But It was bizarre stuff but like the Incursion just came out, second DLC they released and I had never beaten the Incursion on challenging. Okay. What you're seeing right now is the actual glitch itself. So the idea is you go down this ladder, you go through this tunnel and basically you can just skip Everything you have to worry about in terms of these 15 waves of enemies coming and then using some weird cover glitch where you go from one cover to the next. You can climb up basically through the world. Yeah Into the This nebulis blue room like may be a part of the game that [INAUDIBLE] will expand upon and some later [INAUDIBLE] Yeah, there's a hobo there, out there that you can engage. [INAUDIBLE] [CROSSTALK] If you give her bottled water she will give you like an article of clothing or gun. It is like a city environment, but anyways you go around and then you can actually see this weird gray wall, you can actually see. Where you are supposed to be. you see the PAC. And you can just go up there and just start firing sticky bombs at it. Which usually has waves of stuff [INAUDIBLE]. Yeah so once you initiate that you get 15 waves of enemies. I think the incursion itself on challenging. Again I've never successfully done it on challenging. Yeah. I know it can take people up to an hour. If not more, right. Yeah, it's probably longer if your group's not that strong cuz there's way higher level enemies and what not. And it's just that last week's glitch was already kind of bad but this one that Ty showed me, I was just like, this is pretty ridiculous. You're climbing a fake ladder through the world and then on top of that You're shooting the APC through an invisible wall, so to speak. And the NPCs can't get to you. So you just saw this week's glitch. So they're like yeah. They're like DLC drops. What was last week's glitch? Last week's glitch, you could just use the barricade type thing or if you have two people you could kind of shield glitch each other through a wall in the Incursion. Right. And the way that worked was like, okay. As long as you don't go through the main window, none of the enemies see you or like do anything to you as long as you don't go to a certain area. Yeah. And you're just standing right next to the APC and you just sticking until it dies. Yeah. But this week's new exploit, which I have no idea how people figure this out. They must be like testers or something. I That again the crew I was with. yeah. I don't know what they learned. [CROSSTALK] They just showed me. [INAUDIBLE] who heard of [INAUDIBLE]. And there was finally there was also multiple ways to do that exact glitch. I don't think it's even fixed as of today. But there's multiple ways to do it. They just showed me this way. Through the world you walk up this invisible ladder. Then you start firing your sticky bomb at it. but I will say this With a group of four. [CROSSTALK] Yeah. You're all decked out with high scale power. You can take that thing down in like 30 minutes. And you can still get around to pick up your drop box, first. Yeah so what happens is, especially if it's a weekly challenge, you get your reward immediately. Which is like a level 240 piece of gear. And then you can actually fast travel to the beginning of the mission. Go down the sewer like you would normally do go all the way. [CROSSTALK] I's like empty. It's like empty its like you beat it your done and your drop is still there. So I saw one [INAUDIBLE] as well that had somebody glitching into a wall in the dark zone. That was the safe zone glitch now you can apparently against the same wall hack method that Eric was talking about in the First time. Is it just a deployable cover thing? Yeah. Somehow. There's just loads of like weird exploits happening with that thing. I mean, that's what people are using now to just go through any wall essentially at this point. And I believe there's even more glitches where you can get into that weird blue room white room level area where you can shoot through walls. That's what this person's doing in this one. Where they can go into the. Safe house without actually entering it using that mobile cover glitch. And then they can shoot players as they're trying to enter the safe zone. This particular safe zone has a vendor that sells high end gear. So people are going there to either restock on ammo or get high end gear. They can get shot and killed. And at that point the guy that's doing the glitch can level up his rank in the dark zone. I don't know how fast or effective it would be but essentially they're just going rogue and then outlasting their rogue timer or manhunt timer [CROSSTALK] Back away from this for a second because obviously we can chat and say my God, this game's broken, [SOUND]. But glitches are Part and parcel of a lot of online games, you play a lot of Destiny does this like there were exploits within a lot of the, like vault of glass and stuff there was like ways you could skip through parts and whatnot, to be honest when I think about WOW raiding that was almost part of the challenge like finding out the. The best tactic. [CROSSTALK] Yeah. Going through walls is one thing, but being to skip like certain parts of Molten Core was always like, not good. So we've gone saying, does this seem more egregious in The Division? It's only more egregious because of how the system or how the game works. So right now Encourgent, which is the thing that's getting exploited the most, is, Offering players the highest tier of loot that you can get in the game, and I think it's currently the only place you can get it. So of course people are gonna exploit it, right? Because not only is it so much faster than doing it normally, but it's really the only place you can get it at. So in a way it's It's kind of almost like there is something wrong with the design of the game potentially, only because it such a loot driven game. And this exploit is basically really harming the game. Because you have your demographic that are the hardcore or whoever, that are exploiting all the time. And then you have your casual players or your people that have high ethics, and they don't want to exploit. And they they're like, well, Massive should punish these people, and the community manager I think at Massive has even come out and said, they're looking into punishing people. Right. But it's weird because you can't really do that, because it's in the game, right? It's in your game, you have to fix your game. Just like there's difference between rage quitters in Street Fighter V and then people who are. Basically taking [UNKNOWN] exposing the holes in your product which is what's happening here. This is people in my opinion, at least talking to the people I play with. I have asked them why they did it. And it's like leveling the playing field, right? What drove you to do it? Well no, it's an interesting question to pose to somebody cuz I don't have all day to play this game and I'm a casual Player, like these people are playing hours and hours a day. But the main response I've got to that, it was this is the only way I can even catch up and at least somewhat compete in the dark zone. When people are out here with super high interior- Right. And there's like they have like really high armor capacity. They can basically take a ton of damage, and when they're on the dark zone just wrecking shop, going in a rouge and annihilating people. You wanna If you wanna catch up if you wanna compete and you don't wanna die immediately you kinda have to do it, you know what it's like the Tour De France in cycling, like everyone's doping, so I'm gonna **** dope because I wanna compete and if everyone's doing it then you have to do it. I love it you're the Lance Armstrong of the Division. Exactly with one testicle, it's just. It is annoying though and granted I agree with Eric. Half the day I have to fix this. This is a problem. But it also speaks more to their design of the dark zone. Cause at least in Destiny when you play the multi-player, everyone is kind of one the same level more or less. Well, it's like team [UNKNOWN]. Yeah it's like skill right? Whereas it's cool that the division has this unique dynamic where you can go in there and write shop at like If you have people that are just getting all this monster gear and they can't be killed easily and they're anhiliating everybody, then what happened to the dark zone at that point? [CROSSTALK] The dark zone always seemed like just this, not like an afterthought but almost like they had that grand scope idea of what they wanted the division to be, this sort of like immersive Always connected online game with like these, you know you can pal up with people but you might run in to other people, which is not the game they ended up launching and it always felt like Dark Zone was like this remnant, like this left over part, that sort of like stuck to the rest of the game. I think what's interesting about this is When I used to be in game dev, briefly for like 18 months. And I remember when the game launched, we were working on [CROSSTALK] Lodash, go buy it now. [INAUDIBLE] Yeah. I don't even know if it's for sale still, or even available. But I know that there's a temptation for devs to just react to everything really quickly, right? [CROSSTALK] What like feedback from the community? Yeah especially if it's like a smaller dev but if you go to Reddit on Division it's insane right it's a lot of people complaining and a lot of it's rightfully so some of it's just kinda hey this is the state of the game calm down, but I think there is this tendency for devs to react really quickly to things and I think that's kind of what Massive is doing sometimes cuz like. There are times where I thought, maybe they thought the game was too easy so they made it super hard. Right. And then- After the beta that happened. Yeah. And then even after this latest patch, like you know, I remember playing a game going like, man, I'm a lot more like a piece of glass now. It's like you know one bullet and I'm dead like these guys are shotgunning me, like these are just NPC's like they are regular people. So you're saying like that they are peppering the cracks but in doing so there's like somewhere else that's not. It's possible yeah I know, I'm not saying that's exactly what they're doing but I know that they are quick to react and I know that the game has definitely changed like up and down kind of all over the place since I started playing it so. I'm a little concerned that maybe they're being too reactive. I don't know. It's just again, I have to imagine Massive has a pretty big squad. And this is, by the way, this is a completely different game than I worked on. Right. It's not even the same. But it's interesting to see how they're trying to fix everything. This is gonna be a very hard time for them, just in terms of now. What they've had and what they have upcoming because they're at a point where their fanbase is starting to kind of get more critical, more upset, and they might lose playerbase. And they gotta Figure it out. Like destiny, it took them a year for them to finally get it good. Like figure out quality of life stuff and what not .And I am afraid. I stopped playing the division already. But part of that is because I don't have a crew I run with normally. Yeah. > But even then it's like You're min maxing so hard on these pieces of gear and that's why people are exploiting. It's because for you to get the best gear it kind of takes exploiting to get it because to do it normally you just gotta get super lucky and it would take forever. A long time. To be honest. I don't think they've found that balance yet of what is good. They keep experimenting and sometimes it's almost like they have too many knee jerk reactions. If a lot of core game play was more fun it wouldn't be a problem. Yeah. This is just some like [UNKNOWN] Yeah. Like it's fine. It's a fine game. But what we're talking about is that there are variable ratio schedules just don't work enough. They're not rubbing your back enough. To get you through what is basically a slog if you're to play it over and over and over again, you know what I mean. There's a reason why people play WOW group raids and, for better or for worse, took six hours of our evenings and did it five days a week. People don't do it on these games because the game play's not there, right? Because it's not that type of game. Well it's weird. Because it seemed like before this recent patch I actually enjoyed the game play. I mean granted, I had a pretty good squad I was teaming up with day in and day out every night after work and on the weekend. It was a lot of fun. And I thought the game play was, like we were just running It was weird because we were running the same missions a lot, like these weekly challenges and everything on challenging mode. It was super fun to do but I never felt like it was really really boring. And then this patch happened and the incursion happened and then all of a sudden it was like whoa this game got insanely more difficult. Yeah. And then it was like okay like Eric said. The only way to get this good gear If you do this at least in an optimal time, it's to exploit. And everyone's doing it. So like, what do you do in that situation? Do you just the same path? Or do you try to do it the right way? If somebody else jumps off a bridge, do you jump off a bridge, Ty? What's down there? [LAUGH] [INAUDIBLE] Tyrone, Eric, thank you so much for coming on talk and the division. Of course. I mean, the fact that we're still talking about the division and it's almost been there for two months. Yeah. [CROSSTALK] So, can't be all that bad. Let us know what you think of the division at Glitch Festival that's going on right now [LAUGH] in the comments below. [MUSIC]