-Hey, I'm Nick from Houston.
And you're listening to the 404.
-It's Wednesday, June 26th, 2013.
Thanks for tuning in to the 404 Show on CNET.
I'm Jeff Bakalar.
-I'm Justin Yu.
-I am Aunt Jill.
-I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez.
-What's going on everybody?
-It's a big day.
-It's a huge-- it's a brand new day.
-For a butterfly kisses.
-Yeah, butterfly kisses day.
So what happened this morning?
-Apparently, there's some news that everyone seems to be psyched--
-Oh, come on.
So we got the champagne here.
-Got the bubbly--
-We got a little [unk] celebration.
By the way, yesterday is really, really suck but I can't get sucked into my negativity but-- 'cause today I'm so happy that the Supreme Court overturn the defensive marriage act, which was enacted under Bill Clinton when he was in his high woosy-hood.
-What was that about?
-I didn't know that.
-meticulous 'cause he had to be like, "Oh, I'm middle of the road so I'm gonna
say a marriage is between a man and a woman."
-And how long ago was that?
And with overwhelming support in Congress, and today the Supreme Court overturn it so it is an awesome day for gay rights and for civil rights.
And it means that gay couples basically get all the federal rights that if you're married in like the State of New York-- if you are married in the state where legal marriage is recognized, then you're also married under federal law, which means, for example
you could get if you're-- you could get social security benefits of your spouse.
You could have the state tax law.
You can be treated equally under the eyes of the federal government-- very big for military people as well.
-Getting pensions like a military pension being able to get-- buried next to your spouse.
You know, all these kinds of crazy things that are out there.
There's of-- evidently about 1,100 federal laws that are going to have to be rewritten and overturn because of this.
They're gonna change people's lives, but this is
So I brought a little something to celebrate.
-Well, that's really awesome.
-Should I-- well, let me-- I'm still-- now I'm totally psyched because I wanna do this but I got a little bit freaked out when you said Bonnie's here 'cause if it spills, I don't wanna mess up your equipment.
I mean, what are doing here?
-It can get any worse.
So I can do that.
Talk about something else while you open this.
Or you want me to do-- you wanna do it?
-You used to be a manly man.
-I will go blind in the eye if I do that.
-What about you Ariel?
-You have to do.
Just pop it.
-I'll do it.
-You'll do it?
Pop it like behind you or something just 'cause--
-Yeah, that works.
-Okay, hold on.
-Oh, let's listen to the noise.
Get her a cup.
-Okay, I did pretty well.
-You did really well.
I did okay.
-Here it is.
-That was really good Jill.
-Thank you very much.
-So what I wanna know about with this whole ruling--
-is like-- it's not just the California thing, right?
So the California is a separate ruling.
This California-- what the court said was, we can't really-- we think that this case never should
have been brought and it doesn't have legal standing so we're gonna go back to what the judge in California said, Judge Vaughn Walker, and guess what?
We're striking down-- that strikes down Prop 8, you can go married in California.
So Ariel, you can have a wedding, a double wedding with the gay couple--
-You should, right.
-And you know what?
You should do that to support the cause.
-I think it was the--
-Yeah, as long as they split the cause.
-Look at him getting all over that.
-He would be a beautiful gesture.
-So I just-- I would like to always, I like to celebrate with my friends
here at the 404.
Here's to equal rights-- civil rights and rock and roll.
-Yes, it's about freakin' time.
-It's about time, rock and roll.
-Oh, not bad.
-Oh, that's nice.
Oh, my God.
We should do this more often.
Justin's gonna be wasting now.
-Just the look at it.
-Somebody-- I was so anxious this morning.
You know, I usually wake up at like 5. I woke up at quarter 4.
-Oh, my God.
-I was so uptight about--
-That's when I went to bed.
-I was so uptight you guys.
I could not--
-But you were just nervous.
-I was so nervous 'cause-- listen, when that thing came down yesterday that voting rights and that was struck down.
I was like, "Oh, my God.
Something bad is gonna happen here." We've been thinking it's gonna be okay and so I really-- I was like ridiculous pacing all the whole thing.
-Like a nervous, anxious father awaiting the birth of the child, you know.
-Of course, pacing back and forth.
-Pace, right-- and so then, I did all my radio hit this morning--
-And you were super psyched.
-And then 10:00--
or you weren't talking about.
-No, no, no.
-And then the rule came out around 10, okay.
-Ten o'clock like 10:15.
-So I was done with all my stuff and I'm watching MSNBC because my girl Rachel Maddow's on.
By the way, who doesn't love that woman?
-So freaking cool.
She's great and they did-- and all I care-- I put on Facebook, you should see my post I just wrote, "Yes."
-Just one of those thousands--
-I was so psyched.
-So this is a big deal.
I feel like people don't realize what it means, you know, I don't understand that 1,100 laws would have to be rewritten.
I mean, basically
what amazing to me is the case that was brought to overturn DOMA was from this woman who was unbelievable.
I think she's 83 years old.
Her name is Edith Windsor.
-I've heard about her.
-So she's with her partner Thea Spyer for 44 years.
-They have these old school names.
That's the best part.
-I love it, right?
So, they're together for 44 years.
Thea Spyer has MS and Edie Windsor takes care of her.
You know, she gets older.
They got married I think in Canada in 2007.
-So they are residence of New York.
New York recognizes marriages-- gay marriages from outside New York.
So, they were considered married under New York State law.
So now Thea Spyer dies and she leaves her money to her wife.
Now, if you were married to a man, if Thea Spyer had left her money to Edward, there's no tax that's due in that moment.
There's no tax that you can--
between spouses, you can have money passed between a--
-Shifting has no problem.
However, because she left her money to a woman, who was a federal estate tax levied of $363,000.
-I mean, she had a big estate, okay?
-So what's the percentage there?
-You know, it ends up being a tax rate of 55 percent of the money you inherent over a certain threshold.
So they were over the threshold.
Well, okay, this is like a first-
world problem, right?
"Oh, I had so much money that I got taxed." But the coolest thing was, if you look at the-- I mean, Edie Windsor is probably doing her press conference right now, which are DVR, of course.
And what so great about her is she just like sort of this normal plain-spoken woman who said, "You know, I just didn't really think it was fair.
Why should I have to pay tax?
If I were a man, I wouldn't have had to pay tax."
What's the deal?
-What's the deal?
Why is that?
And so she was the one who brought the case.
Now, the coolest part is, she's represented by this woman, Robbie Kaplan,
who is a lawyer at Paul, Weiss; big corporate law firm in New York.
-Robbie Kaplan has ever it done like she had a case before the Supreme Court.
-Supreme-- yeah, high profile.
-But nobody would take the case.
-And so Robbie Kaplan who was an out-gay woman, an out-Jewish lesbian-- I wonder how many there are.
-I know of two.
-There's one-- I know a couple right now.
And she took the case because she said she was so compelled by Edie Windsor, who she was--
-In that story--
-and her story was really interesting.
-And I think a lot of the gay rights organizations were like,
"We don't wanna take the case." This is like sort of a snobby case because it's really-- someone who's very wealthy, right?
And I think that Robbie Kaplan, I heard her speak recently, she said, "You know, really wasn't about that.
It was about like anyone could sort of get this idea that it's so unfair that had she'd been marry to a man, they'd be no tax." I mean, honestly, I wanted to take a picture of that check refund from the federal government $360-- I hope they gave her the-- by the way, the interest.
-Right, they should.
How long is it been?
-Well, 2007 or '08.
-That's 7 maybe 6 years worth of interest.
-So, the-- I think that I was-- I didn't expect Prop 8 to get this big universal right to marry.
I really wanted the DOMA thing 'cause I think DOMA is huge.
I think it's huge for any federal employee, 'cause basically, if you're a federal employee and you're married of the same-sex marriage, your partner could not get your federal benefits.
-Crazy it sounds, right?
-It's actually crazy.
-So this is overturned, this is all good.
-But the battle's not over, right?
-Because there are a lot of states that still don't recognize it.
-Oh, forget about-- there are 30 states that have bans on same-sex marriage.
-The majority of states.
-I mean, it's really gonna be awesome to see you--
-It's just gonna-- I mean.
-It's gonna turn but it's gonna take time and I-- Kate Kendell, who is the executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, who dropped an F bomb on National TV, I believe earlier today--
-That's always like, I think that's a cool achievement when you can--
-I think so, too.
NCLR, you know, who fought the original marriage case in California.
I had dinner with Kate a week-and-a-half ago, but not 'cause I'm so fancy.
I'm happened to be on her advisory board without her.
-And she said that they expect 16 states to eventually approve same-sex marriage.
-In how long--
-Well, there's I think there's like gonna be 12 this year and there's 4 more that are probably up the course.
-So what will happen in the five years sounds like?
-But I don't know because I think--
-Who do you think who's gonna be the last freaking state?
-Like Arkansas or something.
-Mississippi or Texas maybe.
Now, I think Texas.
-What do you mean?
Texas is almost like had like a crazy thing happened last night with-- I didn't wanna go into about it--
-I'm so confused about that, by the way.
-That whole thing?
-Like I kinda just wanted a primer-- 'cause I thought it just gonna go for 12 hours and then in the last 2 hours from--
-Oh, my God.
-like up until midnight was just-- it was like parliamentary inquiries after parliamentary inquiries and go back and forth.
I thought it was a joke.
-Yeah, evidently not.
-It seemed like a prank.
-Or maybe it was like all well-thought out.
I just want someone to explain it
-I can't be that person.
-It's so-- the whole thing would the abortion thing--
-All right, we can't-- it's a slippery slope.
-Yeah, we think about that.
-Anyway, we're fine with the gays, not with abortion.
We're fine with all that.
-Let's not do that.
-One thing at a time.
So Kate says that probably with the next few years they get 16 states passing, legalizing same-sex marriage and the rest she said, it's probably gonna take longer, a lot longer.
-Canoe in the chat room says, the last state to allow
gay marriage will be from wherever Paula Deen is from.
-Oh, my God.
I have a total admission for you guys.
-Yeah, all day.
-Monday morning I was on CBS' This Morning.
-And so I did my thing and I was there.
-I saw that.
-And that was cool right?
Yesterday morning I just happened to be in the green room and getting my coffee and I come out and Paul Ryan is there.
-You know, Congressman Paul Ryan.
-Of course, yeah.
-Former Vice Presidential candidate.
-Yeah, the guy everyone forgot about.
Okay, so I would probably venture to guess that if we don't talk sports we disagree about every single thing in the Universe, right?
The only thing you have in common is like--
-Ten fingers and toes and oxygen and stuff like that.
We both have big ears.
That's about it.
That could be it.
-So he's in the green, he just comes out and he does his hit and they say, "Oh, we have a little present for you from CBS' This Morning." So I say to the woman, who is like coordinate, I said, what do you mean?
Where's my bag?
I was here
I didn't get Butkus.
-Yeah, what the hell?
-And she's like, "Oh, you work here.
You don't get a gift." So she hands him the bag and she says, "Here, you could have mine." And I said, "Oh, thank you." And he says, "I'm Paul Ryan." I said, "really?" No, I did not--
-Did you actually like, I don't know who he was?
-I said, "Oh, it's very nice to meet you." I was like a blithering idiot like, "Oh, it's so nice to meet you Mr.
-But I was like--
-Shaking hands with the young man.
And he was very nice.
He talked-- he asked me what I did and I told him
what I did.
We chatted a little bit and--
-You took his bag?
-I took his bag.
-You took Paul Ryan's bag?
-What was in the bag?
It was one--
-Bunch of swans stickers and stuff.
-[unk] swans stickers.
-They're like, what do you give him for-- just like bullets and swans stickers.
I don't know like what else did you gave him.
-It was one mug.
One CBS' This Morning.
-CBS' This Morning.
-I should have brought it in.
-You should have had him
-I should have, but that would be like-- I literally turned to the director and I said, I am getting bounced out of the lesbian union right now, like all of my great credentials--
-I hope no one photographed that.
I didn't look that--
Well, you know, you admitted it on the show, so that's a big problem.
-I did because that's 'cause-- you know, I couldn't hold it.
-It's a funny story.
Anytime you meet a guy like that, you gotta tell us about that.
-I mean-- and you also have to feel like, what am I gonna do?
Hey, listen mother of--
-Yeah, maybe or you just get to a
fist-fight with him.
-That would be great.
-I doubt that his face--
-I mean, I know he's pretty jacked but I think you could take though.
-He is pretty jacked as a matter of fact, he was bigger than I thought he was gonna be.
-How much taller were you?
-No, he's taller than I am.
-Yeah, he's like 6'1.
-Oh, he didn't-- he doesn't come off that tall.
-And I was wearing heels, so yeah, 6'1 at least.
-I know you can still kick his ass.
-So you got this done, you got the-- so Prop 8 is done and no Prop 8 you crazy wackadoodles in California Justice.
It's not might fault.
-I don't understand how they could be so progressive in something like marijuana.
-Okay, because-- I'll tell you why, because it happened at a weird time.
The Prop 8 thing was a very interesting study in how not to conduct a campaign.
-And, you know, there was tons and tons of money.
They came into the state of California from their neighbors in Utah.
-The Mormon Church-- all these Mormons spent tons of money-- what's that name of that San Francisco 49er who is the big Mormon?
Steve something-- what's his name?
-You're asking the wrong--
-Yeah, you're asking--
Who's the quarterback?
Who's the old--
Isn't he a big Mormon?
-Yeah, I think he was a Mormon.
-He wrote like personal
checks to get Prop 8 passed.
-What a freak, man?
Get a real problem in your stupid life.
I totally agree.
So, the Mormons had tons of money, lot of churches.
Now, remember also, 2008, the year that Barack Obama was elected, it was a huge turnout among Blacks and Hispanics.
The Black and Hispanic clergy rallied their people and said, vote for Prop 8, right?
They said, we have to protect the family-- not that I'm-- well, I'm not blaming my catholic friends.
But whatever you know like, that's a
powerful pulpit, right?
So the pastors, a lot of the black churches, the catholic churches and the Mormons spent crap loads of money.
So it was just a weird night for me I remembered because what happened was we got, you know, we found out Obama was elected and there was like jubilation.
-And then it was like, "Oh, and by the way, you are less than a piece of crap in California."
-Yeah, step one and step forward too bad.
-'Cause the people like-- were like "Let's intern you."
-You got an interesting state there with some pathology.
-I'm here now.
-That's why I'm
You leave that all behind.
-Yeah, I got a new license.
-Oh, you do?
-No, I didn't.
I will though soon.
-Yeah, I will.
-That pretty much amends your--
-Now you-- you know, you and Ariel could get married in New York or California right now.
-I'm down at New York.
-It's awesome man.
-Isn't that good?
My second wedding will be here with you.
-I'll leave with this.
-Yeah, my second wedding.
-Think about like that's awesome.
Two dudes living together?
What's gay about that?
-There's nothing wrong with that.
-Rock and roll.
-And they all seem to wanna have lot of sex so as he give everyone's on the same bandwidth there, right?
So that's good.
Is there anything else you need to know with that like, wait a minute, that doesn't sound-- not bad.
-Now that every-- thought this.
-Let me think about that again.
-Any other questions about the gay marriage.
-I'm trying to say, I'm curious of the term has any as well.
No, I just-- for me, you know, it's a big win clearly but it's sort of-- I don't know.
I'm on this whole pot thing lately because I just watched that.
Did you see that new show on CNN?
Morgan Spurlock show.
How was that?
-It was very good.
-We found him on before.
He's a great dude, and--
-Oh, we found him on before.
you know, he's a fan of the show.
-I know, right.
-And the premier episode was specifically about California and the marijuana legislation there and what the hell [unk] could do that over there.
And he was profiling this one place called Harbor side, which is Oakland which is like the biggest dispensary in the state I believe.
They do something like $75,000 a day.
-Yeah, it's crazy.
-That's a nice business.
-But they're like-- they exemplify
what it is to turn that-- I'm not gonna say business because it's medicine in California.
-But they just--
-Yeah, whatever like so it's a pharmaceutical companies like they-- I have cancer drugs that makes me feel better.
-They're making money.
-So they just profile this place and showed how well these things can be run and how, you know, efficient and clean and regulated and on and all that.
But for me it's like-- yeah, so the DOMA thing is dead and all that's dead.
I think the new thing now is marijuana.
I think that is
the next gay marriage--
-in this country.
Oh, for sure.
-I don't know how I feel about that.
-You think it should be illegal?
I think we've got other issues that are more important.
-I'm not saying we don't.
-But some things are sexy.
-Yeah, that's true.
-And it's a very big political vessel catalyst.
-Where is it legal right now?
It's in California and Colorado?
It's not-- it's medicinally legal in California but for recreational.
It's legal in Washington and Colorado.
-Yeah, those with
But those states seemed to be doing fine.
They haven't falling off the map.
-Yeah, nothing going on in things that they have-- it's although, I mean, I don't know.
Maybe you could say like the rise of pot-smoking is somehow related to the fall of Microsoft.
It some sort of correlation there.
-Maybe everyone in Redmond was just stoned when they decided to--
They're like, "Let's do this thing where there's no start button."
-I was like, who still using that?
Okay, I mean nice.
-They're blaming the pot on that.
They're like-- it's on pot's fault.
But it's medicinally legal I think in 16
states including New Jersey.
-But not New York.
-Not New York, it's decriminalizing New York.
It's like a slap on the wrist.
All right, well that seems reasonable.
-I just-- for me, you know, I just think even if you're-- even if you don't smoke marijuana, you don't care for whatever it is.
You can't really argue with the national opinion on it.
-Well, like so-- and so to with civil rights--
-And gay marriage, of course.
-Although, I mean I have to say I'm so Jewish about this, like all I can keep talk about is like what happened yesterday
also because I feel like that was such a huge step backwards for civil rights.
So, did you guys know that there were the sort of special voting rights for these states in the south, which were basically, you know, part of the confederacy?
-Over rules that were put in place in 130 years ago?
-Yeah, I know-- I mean, but it was like, no I mean the rules that were put in place 40 years ago for the voting right--
-Which is basically said, "You guys who were basically part of the confederacy and are kinda trying to screw the black people trying to vote.
We have special
rules in place for you." Who knew?
I didn't know that.
I had to say, you know, candidly.
-Well there's no secret I remember the last election, all this really depressing information came out about rules put in place to make it harder for people with lower incomes--
-to vote, which, you know--
-Disproportionally effective people of color.
-So what's interesting about it, they said now with the ruling of course is that these states are all rush like, you know, Texas getting busy.
They can't seem to vote in less than 8 hours, but now they're getting busy with
new voting rights bills.
-So that-- I don't know.
I'm very happy.
I don't wanna be a buzz, I'm feeling very happy about it.
You know what also, Justin.
It's the one week anniversary of me meeting the Bakalar family.
-Let me pour you some wine there.
-Pour me some more in there.
-There you go.
-Jeff, how do you think we did?
-It was crazy.
-Do you wanna do the setup?
-You can do the setup.
-No, you're the host.
-I wanted to talk more about like the fall-out.
I'm gonna use the setup then.
Jeff's parents and wife and I went out for dinner last Wednesday night.
-And it was, I think a very successful meal.
-I thought so.
-We had a good time and Mr.
Bakalar, Big Lou picked up the check--
-Which is crazy.
-It was like mind-blowing to me.
I had no-- I was like a little bit embarrassed actually.
-Well, you know-- the thing was, you know, we can kinda talk about it before and I'm like, you know, we're obviously not gonna let Jill pay for this.
That was like the one thing--
-But why wouldn't we all split it?
-Because you're our guest.
And I said to
Michael, "Look Lou, well-- you and I will split"-- and then he pull the fast one on me.
And I was like, "No.
I'm not even gonna let you split it."
-So and Lou--
-And then I had a, just like giving butterfly kisses the rest of the--
And I think that is good.
-What restaurant did you guys go to?
-We went to the Red Cat in Chelsea.
-Yeah, on the Westside.
-Is that Italian?
Kind of, I would say America, not--
-Yeah, America kinda seafood.
Sorta like, everyone got blue-- what do you guys--
-Red soft-shell crabs.
-They're in season.
It's good-- and drank a little bit.
You guys had a couple bottles of wine.
-We rocked a few bottles of wine.
-I had a new Grunau is kinda psyched.
-Yeah, it was good.
-And do you know that babe bartender wasn't there, too bad.
-So what do you think?
-I was great.
I had so much fun and they are just so warm and they love you guys so much.
-And funny-looking right?
-Not that funny-looking.
No I would not say that.
-Let me ask you Jill, like whenever I meet my friends' parents I always get, I always gain a lot of valuable insight into how my friends became the way they are now.
So what did you learn about Jeff
for meeting his parents?
-Yeah, and this is good because this is not something you would just say to me.
-Yeah, I wanna hear those.
-I learned that much.
I knew about it.
I have to say I could tell they absolutely adore him.
They talked about your brother.
I mean it was like, it was--
-But it was not like in a way that it is cloying, you know, not in like in a like, "Oh, my son.
I'm so proud of him."
-Not like that, but he-- they were.
You could just see this like, as it's like a Yiddish word, it's not gonna make any sense.
It's like, I'd got--
I'd like, they have such joy about like who their kids are.
I'm so proud of them and so clear that they're very different people and, by the way, how much they love Stacie and I love Stacie.
And by the way, Stacie is freaking adorable like unbelievably--
-Like she is way better looking than her pictures.
-And her husband.
Anyway, I didn't say anything about that.
-You can see at the back-- she walks in and Jill was like, "Oh, my God."
-I really was gonna say--
-"Stacie, you could have done so much better."
-What about your mother?
She's like, "Oh, my God, you're so much better-looking in person.
You don't look like this on the air." She totally did.
-They thought you just like look so great in real life.
-That was nice.
Anyway we had-- I can't say that I learned anything that was that interesting.
Although it's kind of interesting to hear about how your parents got together.
-You've heard that, I'm sure.
-Yeah, for sure.
-But, I mean it was a great story and, you know, I think that the-- it's always fun to meet your parents like as an
Adult given your friend's parents is an adult versus when you're kids.
I'm sure that if I were you, you know, your friend growing up have a different impression.
So they are--
-You'd be-- I don't know if we'd be friends growing up.
I don't know about that.
But it was--
-Here is my Jill, she can drive and get alcohol.
-She's in college and I'm in elementary school.
-She's in college.
-This is my Aunt.
This is my so Aunt.
-But you're right because there's a point and everyone can relate to this especially people who go back home after college.
When that happens, it-- for me that was the moment where I was like, "Oh, my God.
My parents are real people."
-And you're like-- and they drink and they do cool stuff and they're like kinda fun and I-- shit, I kinda wanna hang out with them maybe a little bit.
-you know what I mean, and that was like a realization and once you get beyond that, it's a good time.
-And the one thing I did realize is that, we really have to figure out how to get your father to take your mother to Italy.
-That's like our goal.
-You see, you're gonna have to put something on this drink or something.
-We gotta work on him.
We're gonna work on-- he's like, "Oh, I don't wanna travel." I'm like, what are you
-There's a place beyond the Ruba.
-Well the Ruba is not the only place to go.
-Which one, or who do you think I look like more?
-You look like your Mom.
-You think so?
looks like your Dad.
-Yeah, for sure.
-But I just had such a good time.
So there were some fall-out for you.
-No, there were just-- they just won't stop about how much they love you.
-They want you to like hang out like be-- like their friends and stuff.
They were like, why don't you and Jackie come over to the house for a barbecue.
yeah, we're gonna give up our weekend in Southhampton for that.
-You're gonna do-- you do it in like the spring or like the fall when it gets a little.
-Do it in the middle of the week.
-Do it on Tuesday night.
-Do it on Wednesday.
-Yeah, but it was fun.
-By the way, it was a lot of fun.
-Very good and very, very generous.
-Rock and roll.
-Thank you again Lou.
-Yeah, I know he's super psyched about that.
-That was a good time.
Let's switch gears a little bit and get into some questions and whatnot.
You're on a tech news that you need to know.
Do you need to talk about Windows 8.1?
-No, I mean we kinda--
-You know-- yeah, it's not a big deal.
It is-- you
know, for me it's like you do know the deal with Windows 8.1?
-No, I don't even read about that.
-But basically bringing the start button back, 'cause the start button has been removed in 8.
-What's with the flip-flopping with Microsoft always--
-It's the pot man.
-It's the pot.
It's this pot Washington state.
-That they didn't remember what they did.
-They're so stoned they forgot to put the start button in.
-Oh, my God.
Where's the start button dude?
-They shipped Windows 8 and they were like-- you forgot the start button.
They couldn't find it.
It was like lost in the trash.
And they finally found it and they put it back in for 8.1.
-And that's it.
-That's it, right?
-And there's a few other cosmetic things that are new but, you know, if you wanna hear more about.
Go and read CNET, 'cause we did a bunch of stuff on there.
There's a-- so that's with the big event today is the Microsoft Event.
Well, is that what it's dealing with?
-Yeah, that's the event.
And I did like your segment yesterday about the Nook, although, it's just so sad to me like you-- it feels like Barnes and Noble.
This is like great
brand-- cannot figure out how to compete with Kindle or with the iPad.
It's like no one else can get into this market.
-And so, it sort of-- don't you think it's a little depressing?
-But, you know, it's all about the ecosystem.
-Yeah, I know.
-And Amazon and Apple have it so unlocked down.
-That it's impenetrable.
-And unfortunately, it leaves this-- I mean, you know, and they come out in there and like, "Oh, we're still gonna be relevant in the category.
We're gonna do stuff--
We're gonna do black and white.
-Yeah, all right.
-You know, it's
sad, it really sad because our children will not know what Barnes and Noble.
They're gonna put a white flag in this end.
-You guys won.
-That's their innovation then.
So, I don't know--
There's your tech news for the day, right?
-You know what I just-- by the way, found out.
I was doing-- I interviewed this dude.
I'm doing like these small business segments for the Washington DC radio station.
I interview this guy who has got this wild business.
It's like web security and, you know, network solutions blah-blah-blah.
He incorporated it-- he starts his business 1995.
So I looked up how many internet users
were there in 1995?
There are more than that.
-I was on the internet in 1995.
-Anyway, 60 million.
-Okay, so it's almost 3 billion now.
-Oh, that's half the--
-It's like 40 percent, right?
-A little less than half the--
-It's unbelievable to me.
So, I said to him like, what was--
-Fourteen users in 1995.
There's 6 users.
So-- 'cause I'd asked him this question like, "Hey, how, like how's your business changed.
You've been in this business for like an amazing time because, let me just say that I used to have to actually convince people for like
three years that they were going to be doing business on the internet.
-And he said that it was unbelievable.
-Well, the best is, and we saw this in a documentary downloaded when they show archive footage of Morning Shows talking about this new thing called the Internet.
-All right, Katie Couric, very famous about that.
In 1994 or 1995 or even as late as 1997, when she's like so, wait-- and like Brian Gambo was there too.
And he said, "What do you mean it's computers?
Is it like they're talking to each other?
Is it like in English?" It was so weird.
-Is that so awesome?
-And that's not even the-- that's not even 20 years ago.
That was amazing.
It's mind-blowing, isn't it?
I have a question for the chat room and for you guys.
Are you ready?
-This is from my girlfriend, not wife yet, by the way.
I did send her an e-mail saying like, "Oh, now we have to get married.
-So you guys are not married.
-We are not married.
-What the hell?
Get freaking married.
Stop rubbing it in everyone's face, you just get married already.
-[unk] with us.
Eleven years it'll be this summer, maybe we will, who knows?
has to buy a new computer.
-Oh, all right.
-And we are gonna buy personal computer so she can be a little bit more, you know, less in the office more do some stuff at home.
So I just wanna give you--
-That's a euphemism for something you don't want to talk about.
-This is from the Enterprise Infrastructure department of a very large bank.
-For purposes of remoting into the blankety blank network even the most basic of computers are capable of this.
So, what do we gonna get for her?
Because the question
is, she's probably gonna want a laptop.
He says, look at this, this is like a whole log thing--
This is pretty intense.
-I printed this whole thing out, whatever.
And he says, you should buy it from a reputable company that has good tech support, Best Buy or Staples if support--
-First suggestion is Best Buy?
-He says, if you purchase online from Dell, you'll have to deal with their tech support over the phone notoriously confounding.
-So we have to get Jackie a laptop computer and we have to
make it a large enough screen for a cert-- woman of a certain age to be able to use.
It cannot be an Apple, it does not-- they don't like Apple.
They don't know how to use an Apple.
-Because they don't support it and they are-- which doesn't mean, we've done it but we've used my computer to remote in for her but--
-It's kinda crazy.
But he said, right here on this note--
-And this is that big bank they were thinking about.
-And they don't want--
-He said, wait a second-- hold on a second.
I would stir away from Apple and Macs because they
-'Cause they're two separate thing--
Because they are secondary in the list of support when calling for assistance here like the-- remember how we used to have that here where it was like the Mac was not supported by the corporate IT services.
-Right, there was-- yeah.
-And then they flipped it over and they said, yes we do.
-So that's what he saying.
-But what-- like I don't understand what kind of support would you run into?
-I don't know, but like, you know--
-All right, so get--
-She's on the business continuity she's like one of 20 people at the firm that has to be able
-Yeah, top 24/7.
So, what do we gonna get her?
And just tell me right now and I don't even-- she said to me, "If you don't come from that show with the actual computer that we are buying this weekend, I'm gonna be very upset."
-That's some freaking pressure there Jill.
So what is the chat room say?
What about a plain old laptop, a PC-ish?
-What's your budget?
-Yeah, what's the budget?
-Let's not go crazy.
It's not a million.
-A million dollars.
-Well, how much it's gonna cost?
800 or a thousand?
It's gonna be the same numbers, right?
Yeah, it's a million dollar Justin.
-So-- get a Dell XPS.
-He just said
not to get a Dell.
-Well, he's an asshole 'cause he's wrong.
-Oh, my God.
-Like what do you want me to say?
-Because, what if I do need support, can I get a Dell?
-But I don't understand this--
-Can-- do I have to buy a Dell directly?
-This guy sounds like.
Does he wear a bow tie and suspenders?
-I don't know.
He's got a plastic pad print-- I don't know.
-'Cause he sounds like he's from tech support in the 70's.
-He may be.
-How old-- is this guy's very old?
I can tell you.
-I don't-- I don't think so.
-He's got a white mustache this guy.
-He gave-- he sent a review from CNET.
-There's a link he did.
-That means he's old.
-Dude, it's a reviews-- oh, my God.
That isn't funny.
He didn't mean that--
-Reviews at cnet.com/laptopbuyinggood.
-So what was the-- was there a one specific product there?
-I don't know what's there.
I don't know, I didn't look at it.
I didn't click-- she-- this is what we do.
She prints out her e-mails, okay?
-That's what I'm telling you right now.
-You guys have the way to the future.
-I know it.
It's an amazing thing I have my own website, isn't it?
And I'm updating it and using it and like, you know,
it's impressive for myself.
-This is what I'm looking at right now.
-What do you got?
-Yeah, hold out there.
The fact that he told you to buy it from Best Buy to me--
-That's already a little [unk].
-Like that's crazy to me.
-I am drinking so much Champagne right now.
It doesn't matter to me.
Give me the model.
-Yeah, just do it.
-I just looked on Best Mid-sized Laptops, check this out.
This is on-- this is updated daily by Dan Ackerman.
-I know, but--
-Knowing that's a MacBook anyway--
-that's why I was asking you how much you wanted to spend 'cause this one is 17 grand.
-What is it?
-It's an Asus.
-It's an Asus.
It's-- I think it's like a mid-sized laptop.
Here's the specs.
-You don't need that.
Then tell me what to get that I can get?
-'Cause 1,700 is crazy to spend.
-For what she's gonna be doing.
-Can I spend the thousand dollars?
-And that's why I'm recommending-- 'cause I've used the Dell XPS a bunch and I think it's a great machine.
-What is the relative-- what are my other choices I can hear with that?
-There's a Sony Fit 14.
-How much is that?
-That one is $850.
-Okay, let's pull that up.
Let see that.
-Fourteen, is that fourteen inches?
-Sony Vaio Fit 14.
-Can we go a little bigger than that?
Can I get like a 17-inch?
-That's not for--
-That's not a laptop.
That's like a portable desktop 17 inches.
-How big is that screen that we use?
-This is 15.
So I would like-- at least 15, 14 or 15.
What else do you got Justin?
-That Sony might be okay.
-I think the Sony is a good one.
-And what-- is it Sony Fit 14?
-Yeah, Sony Vaio Fit 14.
How much is that bad boy?
-That one is $750.
-That's a piece of cake.
-And we can have you talk to Scott
-And get a little-- you know, I've had good experience with Samsung laptops as well.
-And I really-- you know, I was-- I brought this Dell.
I keep bringing it up.
But I brought this Dell XPS I think 14 with me to E3 and the battery life was great.
Performance is very solid.
Great keyboard-- I dug it.
-I really dug it.
Tech enthusiasts in the chat says, don't get a Vaio.
That's one guy's opinion.
-He says not to get it.
-I don't-- he didn't back it up.
Then BryGuy put a-- threw up a link and said the Toshiba Satellite U845T.
Yeah, this is actually--
-It's a touch screen right?
This one is Dan Ackerman's favorite laptop under $800.
It's one his best laptops list.
-You could get it at Amazon for $880.
-Yup, 880 bucks.
-Toshiba, let me see that.
-Toshiba Satellite U845T.
That sounds cool.
-We'll see, yeah.
yeah, I mean, that might work out.
-But why do I needed this touch screen.
Why do I need that?
-No, I feel the touch screen is kinda stupid, right?
You don't need a touch screen.
-I mean, you don't have to use it either, I mean-- to have a touch screen that you don't need it.
-Yes-- 'cause it has a keyboard.
You could just let it sit there.
I got some ideas now.
-Before you pull the trigger though, I'll make sure you check in.
-With you guys.
And we'll get you squared away.
So when you send me the link to the--
-To the show.
What we're doing right now, right?
What are we doing right now?
-What are we doing?
-We're running out of time.
We're gonna miss that and all these things.
I wanna play--
-Do we have a voicemails?
No, we didn't have voicemails.
Oh, yes we did.
We have one voicemail that I wanna play for you and then a bunch of e-mails.
-I got a bunch of-- oh and I have a few little Tweets and a couple of e-mails.
We will get to as many as we can.
We got about 10 minutes left, let's hear this first one, our body from Brooklyn here.
-Oh, my God.
-Hey, what's up 404?
It's Paul from Brooklyn a.k.a.
-That was the--
-So I got a quick question for Jill.
I'm actually a real estate broker and I used to be a mortgage
loan officer for many years, actually.
And, in fact, when I was in mortgages, I would definitely follow the markets much close-- more closely than what I do now.
And it was a completely different time 'cause just before the bubble.
My question is this.
Mortgage rates have gone up quite a bit in the last few weeks and I'm just wondering if you could kinda discuss briefly, you know, the philosophy behind that and if it's here to
stay, if they're gonna go back down?
If they're gonna continue to take up, you know, kind of what your assessment, what your understanding is of, you know, the current situation of mortgage rates?
-That's a great question.
It's like, set me up and I'm about to spike it.
-On May 22nd, the chairman of the Federal Reserve went before Congress to testify, he says twice a year, says here's what's going on in the economy.
In that testimony,
He sort of got-- he got a question afterwards and they said, "Hey, would you change policy the fed policy before Labor Day?" I think they were like, can we just chill out before Labor Day and take the summer off?
-Because we would like to know that.
-They don't like to work, really.
-They-- oh, my God.
They don't work at all.
And he said, you know, yeah the economic data were to improve.
Yeah, we change policy.
And since that moment, the bond market has plummeted in price, which means yields go up-- I'll explain that in a second.
So, from the beginning of May, mortgage rates were about 3.5 percent and as of this morning when the Mortgage Bankers Association reported, they're now at 4.5 percent.
Since that testimony, we've had a Fed meeting.
At that Fed meeting, the Fed chairman reiterated that he would-- how he would change the policies.
But what's basically happened for the last 6 months, actually, let say even 3 years.
The Fed would come in and start buying bonds.
You have the government coming in and buying bonds, pushes the price of bonds up, yields drop down.
That's how we've had really low interest rates for this whole time of the recovery.
-Now, the Fed is buying $85 billion worth of bonds every single month.
It's a natural buyer in the market, right?
And when the Fed chairman says, "Hey, we're gonna stop buying as many bonds eventually." That means that there's going to be a change in the direction of interest rates.
And so the bond market guys
out there in [unk] were traders are getting in front of the fed and saying, "Well they haven't changed their policy yet, but they're going to.
So, let's go sell our bond positions right now and sold bond positions off so that the yield on the 10-year treasury went from a low of like 1.62 percent and now it's a 2.5 percent.
Doesn't sound like a big difference, it's a huge move.
It's a massive move.
It's like 45-50 percent move in 6-7 weeks.
So what happen is that sort of trickles into the mortgage
market, which is all the mortgage rate-- interest rates are based on the 10-year treasury.
-So they-- so now, what happens is the price of bonds are down, yields are up, that means the mortgage rates are up.
-So, the answer to the question Paul is that I think that those higher rates are probably here to stay.
They're going to go even higher and that's kind of a good thing because we want a healthier economy where rates are higher.
The fact that interest rates have been so low for so long is a sign that the economy's
been sucking and we don't want that.
So if things improved, then the fed will change policy, rates will go up.
It just the market wants to trade in front of that.
So I think that that's kind of what's happening.
Now, can I just do a quickie about the bonds?
-You know why bond prices and their yields are inversely related?
No one's ever probably explained that to you.
Think about this--
-Let say, Justin has a bond right now and he bought a bond from the government, which basically, he said, here's a
hundred grand federal government.
"You're gonna pay me 3.5 percent for that.
You're gonna have a thing that pays you 3.5 percent."
-Ten years, okay.
So he says, "Okay, I got 3.5 percent bond." If the general rate of interest rates, if rates are going up at that time, the value of his bond.
The price of his bond is not-- his not doesn't worth as much.
Like if you want to go and sell it to Jeff, Jeff says, "Well, I could go buy a bond for 4.5 percent right now.
Why would I buy your crap
old bond at 3.5 percent?" And you say, "Wait, I'll tell you why.
I'll lower the price." That's why bond prices go down when interest rates rise.
-It's all about the-- like what could I get today.
So if the general interest rate environment changes.
The price of existing bonds is going to change also.
-So it's all about like, why would I take your crappy 3.5 percent bond if I could go and get 4.5 percent?
-'Cause I'll sell it to you for cheaper.
-And so that's why bond prices and yields--
-Is that bad?
Is that bad overall?
Like I said--
-No, it's not
It's no-- it's like cyclical.
You know what I mean?
It's just that people are really crazy 'cause they're used to the fed doing what they've been doing.
-And, you know it's gotta change.
I put something up on LinkedIn today, 'cause you know, I'm a big fan girl of Fed LinkedIn now.
Remember when I was like-- Ariel, were you here when I was like, I don't get LinkedIn.
-Yeah, you were like, "LinkedIn is for losers."
And what I say now?
I'm like, I love them.
-Now you love it.
-You're sucking on the teeth of LinkedIn.
I posted on LinkedIn today,
you know, like investors are cry babies and they're like, "Oh, Bernanke's making our bonds cost less."
-Oh, cry me a river.
You want me to-- let me give you.
Someone else actually tweeted about like what's the deal with printing money?
What's the fed really doing?
-Oh, I thought that was a joke.
It's actually like the way they do.
Well, I mean I'll just say you know when we talk about printing money, this idea that the fed is buying bonds is basically the fed is pushing money into the system so there's more money in the system and they get bonds
But all that extra money has to go somewhere.
So they print it?
They don't really.
-So they just print it and--
-But they have the same effect.
-Release it-- yeah.
-It can have the same effect.
-But we don't have any inflation right now so everyone stop worrying about inflation.
Gold has nose-dive in the last year.
-Said in the last 6 months.
So everyone needs to chill out.
There's no inflation.
-Why are we still making pennies?
-I don't know.
It's a bad deal.
I think it cost 18 cents to make a penny or something.
-I read somewhere-- I think--
-I think it cost 1.8.
-Yeah, which to my knowledge
means something's not right.
-I know 'cause people won't wait to get rid of it.
You want me to do my tweets or do you have something else there?
-Oh, yeah you have the Scott tweet.
-Yeah, I got Scott's.
-Okay, go for Scott's.
-"I'm doing a paid summer internship and I'm going to graduate with my DS, no kidding, in December.
Should I be saving this money?
How much?" Yeah, of course you should save your money?
What are you gonna piss it away?
-Yeah, I don't know what that-- what he was getting that.
-Here's what he should save his money if you have a paid summer internship.
Yes, you should save your money and if you wanna have some fun, spend 15
or 20 percent of it.
Make sure that you-- I don't know if you're on your parents' tax returns or not but you may have to even claim that money on a tax return depending on how much it is.
So, just be careful.
-I forgot how I got paid in my internship.
-Oh, you didn't get paid.
I didn't get paid.
-Literally thinking like, did I get a 1099 or something?
-A guy says his employer offers a 401K but they don't match.
They do pay the administrative fees.
That's kinda good actually.
Should they use my 401K through my employer
or use a Roth IRA, I'm 29.
-If they don't match--
-You don't have to.
It's not really a big yield.
It depends on how much you can put away.
-How much is your administration fees when you're doing it privately?
-Well, they-- probably 1 percent.
So, I mean--
-When he says administrative fees, I don't know if he means-- he's not talking about the cost of investing, which would be the exact the same.
Depends on what the plan is.
I think that if the plan is like a good no-load mutual fund plan, then use it 'cause it's easy.
If it's not, then open up your Roth IRA and go to Vanguard
or Fidelity or T.
Rowe Price and just buy some simple no-load funds.
-Dave's got $26,000 home equity loan which is at 3.5 percent.
Should I pay out for the loan from $100,000 in savings or continue paying monthly.
I'm 62-- 62 on a 404 fan.
-I think so.
Well, he tweeted-- he gave me that question in response to-- he send me your questions.
-Rock and roll.
-He's 62, he's got 500 grand in his
401K, no other debt.
If you're working and you can still deduct the interest on the home equity loan, then you don't have to pay it off but if you're not working, you're 62 and you got your half a million bucks in your 401K and you really can't use the interest on the home equity loan, then pay it off.
Because, you know, the hundred grand in savings is probably earning you 0.5 percent.
-And if you pay off the home equity loan, you've just made 3.5 percent with no risk.
-I got a question for you '
cause we were in-- it is gotta be it, is that right?
-No, I have to give you one great one.
Do the great one and then I'll ask you something real quick.
-There's a woman named, how do I pronounce that.
Would you say that it's N-H-U Nhu?
-Okay, Nhu asked me a whole bunch of questions, which I did on my radio show for this weekend.
I'm gonna do it for this weekend.
-But it's all about like, should you get a credit card?
Should she even get a credit card?
She's gonna be a freshman in college going at Aveley School.
Shocking Justin that here's an Asian woman going to--
-How do you know she's Asian?
I'm gonna tell you
-First of all, I'm super Asian, just to let you know.
-Anyway, she gave me-- she asked me all these great questions and at the end she wrote--- thanks for the-- sorry for the long e-mail.
Thank you so much for any help you can give.
I love your straight-forwardness and your humor.
You're like the coolest Jewish Aunt this Asian girl never had.
Is that the best?
-That's the best compliment ever.
-Well, again Asian and Jews cosmically connected.
-Yeah, it's all around the mahjong board.
What else do you got for me?
-So what was the end?
Did you answer her?
-Oh, I'll answer her, don't worry I'll take care of her.
-But I thought I'd just wanted to read you that part of it
'cause she's so sweet.
-So when I was growing up and I had like my little cute little bank account--
-It was adorable with like $300 in there or whatever.
I was getting something like 6 percent interest on that or 7 percent interest.
Now I have a checking account or savings account and the interest is--
It makes me wanted to spit in the face of every bank person.
-Blame Ben Bernanke, you big cry baby.
-So, will we ever get back to a point when it's like that again?
-We will eventually see interest rates rise.
If you pulled up a chart of a 10-year treasury, if you look at basically bond yields, you will see something wild.
They move in huge cycles.
It's not like the stock market.
We've been in a 30-year bull market for bonds, meaning that prices have been going up for 30 years 'til the bottomed out.
Actually, last summer 1.39 percent.
Basically you would-- you were saying to the government, "Here, take my money and pay me 1.4 percent for
That's going to change.
It's already started to change.
I don't think we're gonna get to 6 or 7. Could we get-- we're not at 2.5.
Could we go to--
The 10-year treasury is at 2.5 percent.
Doesn't mean you're getting 2.5 percent.
-Right, but somewhere--
-But you will eventually see rates start to rise.
It's probably not gonna be for couple of years and it's gonna be slow.
Part of that is a attributable to how bad the recession it was.
I mean, I can't explain it to you guys in any other way but this--
this recession-- by the way, happy anniversary.
It's the 4-year anniversary of the end of the recession.
That's why we have the champagne.
I think that and DOMA same thing.
-But the interesting thing about that is, you know, that recession was 18 months.
It was December of 2007 to June of 2009 and it was the longest recession in post World War II history.
It was the deepest recession since the great depression.
It is going to take a while
to get out of it.
I am so sorry I can't give you better news than that.
But think about the upside for me.
It got me a job at CBS.
-There you go.
That's all that matters.
-You know, if they needed someone who could actually talk about that.
-And if we can employ Jill, then it's a win-win for the whole country.
-It's really-- it's a win-win for everyone.
It really is.
-Is that good?
-I'm kind of buzzed, I don't know about you.
You didn't drink champagne.
-You mean like, should end up drunk?
-I mean like, we didn't drink that much.
There's still about what--
-I drink my part.
-A third of a bottle--
-Are you a lightweight?
-Is that what's happening?
-All right, fair enough.
-He's almost done.
But I got-- Justin gave me a little bit more.
-It's all about DOMA, I'm feeling so good today.
-Well, as you should.
-And, you know what?
Should I-- and then I can-- should I not go running this afternoon?
-That is for sure.
-Can I go--
-It's a little hot-- It's a little hot but be careful.
-DOMA wants you to run.
-DOMA wants me to run?
I gotta do a I had a 2:00, I'll be okay by then.
-I think for me when I hear about this stuff, it's obviously fantastic and great for the whole planet.
But the fact that it takes so long for the--
-It's not long though.
It's long but it's not.
-It's crazy that it's 2013.
-Can I just say, tomorrow is the anniversary of Stone Wall.
In 1969, really-- the birth of the gay rights movement, so 1969 70, 80, 90-- it was like within 50 years.
-That's a really long time.
-That's one person's lifetime, though.
That's not a lot.
-But 50 years is not a long time for great advances.
-Look at what we did better than with the blacks who were like enslaved and, you know what I mean--
-Yeah, I know.
Look-- and it's
all-- I just, I feel I'm not happy to live in a country where it takes this long.
-You know, in other words that you're saying is you're so Jewish.
Like you wanna say like you're getting married, let me crush the glass, it's like the destruction of the second temple.
-It just should have been like this forever.
-Of course it should be.
But, you know, that's not how life is.
-Let say Aunt Jill have to suit you about those--
-You gotta-- I don't know.
You're like the voice of reason today.
-Justin, you were very quiet today.
-I love that you're here because it's normally me that has to pull Jeff out of his negativity but now you're here--
-Do you like that?
-It's not being negative.
It's all about positive stuff.
-Okay, one last thing though, I do have to say
after I listened to that show about Justin.
You need to turn that into either a novella, a short story-- that is a New Yorker story.
-Oh, thank you.
-I'll get lost in nowhere.
-If only I had me risking me life to get there.
Well, so what?
-It was all true though.
-You got-- a story man.
-Art is hard man.
-Art is an easy just like Stephen Sondheim said, there's one person in your listening audience that it gets that reference.
-No, I think I've heard of that.
Anyway, that's it.
We're done here.
-It's from Sunday in the Park with George by Stephen Sondheim.
-Yeah, I know.
-You don't care about that.
-I'm not familiar with it but I'll familiarize myself with it.
-You know, what you need is a gay man on the show who can get my Broadway show references.
-We will have--
-Not all the time.
-Mark is not-- he is no good.
-He is no good.
-He doesn't do that.
That is too young.
I need like a 40-year old.
-You need-- you're into young I guess.
We'll make it work.
-Thank you for being here.
-Thank you for having me and thank you for letting me celebrate this fabulous day with you guys.
-Are you kidding?
We're very, very happy to celebrate with you.
866-404-CNET is the number to call.
Jill on Twitter @Jillonmoney.
Are you staying active with it?
-I listen-- I thought you said you're like, "So media sucks."
-It does but I love it, you know-- whatever.
I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying.
I was good on-- you can also, I've been doing Facebook.
I got a lot of action on Facebook today because of--
-You can't pick one.
You gotta do all or nothing.
That's the problem.
I need an intern.
-Yeah, don't we all?
-Jillonmoney.com and then listen to the radio show as well.
-Yeah, that's awesome.
Make sure you do that.
We're back here tomorrow, 866-404-CNET the firstname.lastname@example.org.
Follow us everywhere at Facebook, Twitter, Reddit and Instagram and all that junk and we'll see you guys tomorrow.
I'm Jeff Bakalar.
-I'm Justin Yu.
-I'm Aunt Jill.
-I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez.
-This has been the 404 Show; high tech, low brow.
Have a great Wednesday and see you tomorrow.
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