CNET UK Podcast 544: We debate 8K and Twitter faces the music

Twitter faces the music, kids break up with Facebook and winner gets the coolest gadgets for the rest of the year. It's the Cinet UK podcast. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] I'm Richard Trenholm, joining me is Katie Collins. How you doing? Hi Rich. Yeah I'm great, thank you. Good. Back from IFA. A week in Berlin looking at exciting new products. Yes, yes. I mean some of them works I think. I'll tell you a little more about that later on in the show but yeah. << Absolutely. Well yeah let's kick off. I mean It's all going off over in the US isn't it? There's a lot of hearings and I guess panels. People being interrogated. << Yes. Well I mean It's been fairly quiet. Newsweek here in the UK and then sort of yesterday afternoon, yesterday evening, it all kicked off on Twitter. And you know everyone was going mad for various news, some of which actually involved Twitter. And now We've had Jack Dorsey, Twitter's CEO, testifying. @Jack? @Jack. Testifying before Congress this week. That's right. He's trying to defend the platform from allegations of bias, especially in the direction of conservative news and conservative tweeters. One particular thing that he's Been forced to kind of, well, he hasn't addressed it but he's been asked about it is whether Trump's tweets are abusive. And he's catty dodged questions on this. Yeah. And a lot of people have been complaining for a while now about whether Donald Trump and some of the things that he's tweeting should Basically violate Twitter'srules of conduct and you know, if somebody else had tweeted, whether they would be allowed to remain on the platform. And you know, up until now, Twitter has always said that you know, it's important to have A figure such as Donald Trump on the platform because he contributes so much to the conversation and he's such a public figure, and things that he say are in the public interest. But Yeah, and it's worth pointing out, I mean that Twitter isn't actually that big. It has a kind of outsized Significance in the minds of some commentators and journalists and politicians when actually in terms of sheer numbers isn't anywhere near as big as the billions of people who use Facebook but then of course Donald Trump's his proclamations are sort of made through Twitter and that gives Twitter this kind of outsized kind of impact in people's minds and, And yeah, it's a tough one. So a lot of the things that are being talked about, Jack Dorsey has been asked about by US senators, things like interference in elections and advertising that potentially is interfering in democracy. These aren't necessarily things that are such a big issue on Twitter. They're possibly more things that should be addressed at Facebook. But obviously, Zuckerberg has had his moment but will probably again have his moment in the spotlight, but for now it's Twitter that are up in front of them. Well, so in front of this Senate in Intelligence Committee, it's been Jack Dorsey from Twitter, and Facebook and Google were also invited. Now, Zuckerberg didn't come this time, but he sent his second in command, Sheryl Samberg, Facebook COO, and they've been chatting about what these companies are doing to protect the integrity of midterm elections. So the We don't have a repeat you know, of what happened a few years ago and you know, have all of these. So just so that writers really understand what roles these platforms are playing and hopefully, they're not exploited again as they were previously. That's right,because the US midterm election is coming up in November, which is the middle of the president's Time, time in office. Which seems crazy, doesn't it, because- It does. It feels like he was just elected, but- Yeah, and so these elections, they're kind of, they're often seen as a referendum about how the President is doing, but they're electing lesser officials, but It'll be interesting to see if the Republicans can keep control of the house and that kinda thing. It's interesting looking across the pond at all this kind of stuff, because the effects are so much, that the way that if the US government does decide to regulate Facebook, how is that gonna affect us and the elections we have over here? I'm, so, yeah, it's interesting stuff, but I mean that it very much seems that you know putting these guys on the stand, people like Jack Dorsey and Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg on the stand. It's they don't really give us any kind of piercing answers. I don't know if we're necessarily making much progress, but it's so interesting. Google it should be noted didn't turn up. Nope. Nope would be [INAUDIBLE] There was an empty chair. [LAUGH] There was an extra chair for Google, yeah. They weren't feeling lucky, I guess you might say. [LAUGH] They didn't have the answers for once, yeah. No. Someone who did turn up is Alex Jones, conspiracy theorist, and guy who was recently pretty much unilaterally booted off various social media platforms. Including Twitter. Including Twitter, although they took a little bit of time to think about it, didn't they? Yeah, they did. Yeah, so there's talk of Jack Dorsey kinda personally being involved in some of these decisions, and saying, no, we've gotta keep these guys on the platform. But yeah, no, he hasn't really sorta given us too much to get excited about with his testimony. Interestingly enough, speaking of Facebook, we've seen numbers recently over the past kinda year as Facebook has had a pretty torrid time. And so we've seen numbers that suggest as many 44% of younger users, aged between 18 and 29, have deleted the Facebook phone app in the last year. That's nearly half of 18 to 29 year old users, that's crazy. As somebody who has been 29 this year, I'm no longer 29. [LAUGH] I can say that I Among these users. I deleted Facebook from my phone and probably actually when I was 28, 2017, I think is when I deleted Facebook off my phone. And honestly, I think a big part of it is just as you see It does kind of comes in ways I think, and when you see your pair group and the people around you using it less, the people that you're closest to then you're just less inclined to use it yourself Yeah Cause It's just not the best way of keeping in touch with people, and connecting with people anymore. And so I can understand why these Why it kind of happens in sort of specific age groups, and I do understand as well why people might not really want to have Facebook anymore. Yeah, the shine's definitely come off it a little bit. I mean, I should point out these are American users, by the way. Yes. So Yeah, and also, younger users are quite likely to be on other platforms aren't they? Like Snapchat. Instagram especially. Which is, of course, a Facebook brand. So [UNKNOWN] deleting Facebook and saying you don't have anything to do with Facebook anymore, but if you're still using Instagram, you're still in hawk to Zuckerberg and Al, so there you go, on who Al is. And they go, in more local news, I guess you might say. But still looking at these American tech giants and the way they interact to the other countries, NetFlix and Amazon are looking like it'd be forced to stream more European shows n the EU. So this is all about the amounts of local content that video stream services have to provide, And so Netflix and Amazon are gonna be regulated by the EU, they have to provide 30% of their content would have to be your opinion regulated. Would have to be European productions. Yes. Stuff like the crown and I'm all excited. Yes, I heard somebody say that That Netflix. Netflix has resisted this and they've actually already implemented a similar rule in Germany. And I've heard that Netflix really resisted it there, but actually they're not that far away from this quota apparently anyway. Which is really interesting to see It's really difficult for producers outside of the US in the past to get big television series made. And obviously, here in the UK because we're English language speaking, then we do have a great heritage of Original television content. We have probably an easier time of it. We do have shows like, yeah like he say the crown and we have other shows that all kind of produced primarily in the UK by even big companies like HBO. Like things like Game of Thrones is pretty much all, it's done kind of in Europe. Now the one thing that I would really like to see out of this is some interesting shows coming out of different European countries. I personally think that some of the best TV that's been made over the past few years has come from other countries, so for example there was a TV show made by the Norwegian Television, kind of the national broadcaster over there, called Scam. They've done an American remake of it, but honestly, it was one of the best things that I've watched. Sure. And I went to Norway, and I have Norwegian friends and watched it there, but you couldn't watch it outside of Norway, because of licensing reasons and It would be great to see shows like that that actually have kind of got this called audience on live globally, get the kind of recognition and exposure that I really think that they deserve, It'd be great to see some new shows coming out of countries like that and available to everyone. Absolutely, what I think it's worth pointing out that the net I think it's been responsible for making shows in other languages available and not kind of segregating them often into different places not kind of having a section for German TV and a section for it. But just putting shows like [UNKNOWN] just putting them within the others And remixing it up, that's really interesting. So, Netflix deserves you know, I don't think this order should be seen as like slapping rules on Netflix but they wouldn't otherwise done. I do think that Netflix is actually quite good at opening up this kind of international sort of content but interesting to see If once we're coming of the AU because apparently that is a thing that we have to do. Yes. Or let's just say if what that does to NetFlix here in the UK. And it's worth pointing out as well that the English Language team does mean that the UK and UK broadcaster are quite often involved in Joint collaborative productions, so there will be shows that are kinda joint produced with here and the US. And so we do see quite a few British shows do have a bit of a, sort of a cult, and even a crossover kind of mainstream hit audience in the US. But it's I'm really interested to see what Amazon does with this as well. Because Netflix is kinda further ahead with their original Shows and they're producing stuff like Mosse in France and Dark in Germany and they've produced Spanish language stuff, they produced stuff in various different countries and it'll be interesting to see if Amazon can do the same and there's also these people like Hulu as well and those other kinds of streaming services. Yeah, I think Netflix is probably the service that will thrive the most in this environment I think, cuz I men it's got money to spend on original content as we see. Where as I think smaller streaming sets has might be hit harder by this because they perhaps don't have the same I mean, it is done proportionally, of course. So it's 30% of whatever they have to spend, I suppose, but ultimately, I think it might be more difficult for smaller streaming services that are just making fewer shows overall to keep up. Well, yeah. Exactly, that's a good point. And in fact, actually we're gonna see certainly where Amazon and Netflix are very big and they have big, broad catalogs. So it's probably not gonna be that difficult for them to meet this quota. But then if you look at some of the new streaming services that are coming up soon, for example, the big one that's coming up is gonna be Disney's streaming service. And are they gonna be affected by this? If they're gonna have all the Marvel shows, and all the Marvel movies, and all the Star Wars movies and that kinda thing, are they then gonna have to correspondingly produce British shows and French shows and stuff as well. Like how is that gonna work with them. So [UNKNOWN] what they do but we have no idea when that's gonna happen. Apple also launched [UNKNOWN] service on point saying they are banked on big names for that. So yeah, they are making a TV version of the foundation series by Azi Kazimov. So if you're Big sci-fi novel nerd, then look out for that one, that's quite exciting. Yeah. I mean Apple again, Apple and Amazon. As we know Amazon had some great news this week when it became a trillion dollar company. Apple is already a trillion dollar company. It's not like they are struggling for cash- [LAUGH] Yeah, exactly. To spend in these different ways. Exactly, they can afford to bankroll another series of rentals or something, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, so hopefully We'll see some great stuff coming out Europe from all of them. Speaking of Amazon, there's a bit of a digression amongst all the politicians targeting the American tech giants. Bernie Sanders, who you may remember from Such elecctions as the last one they just had and yeah, he has launched an axe into the senate called the stop bad employers by zeroing out subsidies act and. Catchy. Catchy, yeah if you wanna make it a little bit catchy you could call it the stop Baseus Act which is of course the name of, as the acronym is Baseus Which is of course the name of Amazon's boss Jeff Bezos, the richest man in the world I believe. So, am I right in thinking this is to protect the Amazon workers? Amazon workers, yes, that's right. So the idea of this act is to require big corporations like Amazon and Walmart to pay the government. For the sort of assistance programs that their workers used like food stamps, public housing, Medicaid, and that kinda thing, but I just thought that was an amusing bit of trolling there from Bernie Sanders naming his act in that way. Anyway, and yeah, speaking of Europe, you've just spent a bit of time over there. What was it like? How was your week in Berlin looking at our latest [UNKNOWN]? But it was delightful as always. Right. Eva was- Delightfu; as always. Messy and crazy as always. [UNKNOWN], this is a big annual technology trade show where all the kind of big tecnology manufacturers, they get together in Berlin everyday and they have done for decades in fact. And, they announce their new stuff and show off their new ways. Yes, that's correct. So, it's actually Europe largest tech trade but, we don't often see many phones there so, we usually see kind of big cellphones announced earlier in the year at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. Now, we did see a couple of phones. Okay. [UNKNOWN] primarily ones that are kinda for Europe and Asia only, rather than ones that are gonna be announced in the US. But there was one phone that caught my eye. I was rather surprised, I have Say because it's not something that I would usually be drawn to. [LAUGH] Okay, yeah. And that was the Blackberry Q2LE. What year is this? Yes, [LAUGH] I know. And in the past, I've not always been the biggest fan of Blackberry phones, but I think that it's a really interesting device, I think Blackberry Is it now? Well, really it's firstly it's brilliant value,>> Okay. And, it's got a qwerty keyboard still. So, if you're still in the market for one of those Which apparently.- Somebody probably is yeah. -People are and also it's running the latest version of android it's got a huge touch screen as well. But, its effectively it's kind of I think when Blackberry started making phones again they presumed that most of their customers would be kind of business people and enterprise users. Mm-hm. Actually what they found it's younger people and consumers who are buying the [UNKNOWN]. A little bit like as happened when Blackberry was popular. The first time round. I was going to say the first time round but I don't think we can say that they're popular a second time round yet. Yeah. It might be a bit premature. When they were around. Yeah. one other thing. You know they became really popular among teenagers and younger users who were primarily attracted to it for BBM. Free messaging, yeah. Yeah. So, they've got this Own it. It's a cheaper version of the flagship phone that they bought out earlier this year. That phone I think is around, I think is around 600 pound mark. Mhm. This phone is around the three to four hundred pound mark. And it's still kind of like premium phone. Really nice looking and they've actually done something quite unexpected for Blackberry in that they've experimented with color Wow. It's like they've discovered it. Well that was always the thing wasn't it? The kids loved the free Blackberry messaging this was before WhatsApp this was before Facebook messenger. And, they love the free messaging. And, Blackberry just didn't seem to know what to do with that and they kept making these boring gray business brick phones and kids couldn't get enough of them. But, yes so, a phone need we'll figure this out about Probably about 10 years ago. Yeah, so they kind of made this phone in a kind of quite a big [UNKNOWN] Slate grey, blue colour then they've got Champagne gold version which is quite sassy, and then they've also got an atomic red version which is actually quite cool, it's got like all of these red actions around it and it's the kind of phone that People would look and be like, hang on a second, what is that? Which you don't get much of in 2018 because so many phones just look the same. Yeah. And obviously there is this Blackberry phone, it's got this like deep red, it's got this qwerty keyboard and I think it's a kind, I've had to ride trains before and I know that people are a bit like- Yeah. Really. It does catch people's eye a little bit. Right. And they wanna know what it is. So for people that wanna make a bit of a statement as well, I think this could be quite a popular option. Having a Blackberry in 2018 is making quite a statement. It really is. But it's fun seeing all of these classic brands. If they fail for long enough but they cling on, eventually they'll loop back around. So we're seeing these kind of retro [UNKNOWN] over the past year or two. Exactly, yeah. Had the banana phones come back And now Blackberry's back as well. Yes, exactly. So there are a couple of interesting features as well that come on the software side that it's gonna roll out to its flagship phone as well. And one of which is the ability to clone certain apps, so you can have two versions of I think at the moment it's Instagram, Facebook Messenger, Whatsapp and WeChat and it's working on more It's something that Blackberry is doing in-house, it's not something it's working on developers with. Why? The idea is that it's seen increasingly people managing multiple accounts. Okay, your finster. Yeah, your finster. As I believe the kids might say, finster. Or if you For somebody that needs access to kind of a big company Instagram account. Okay. Yeah. Or something like that and you don't just want to be switching accounts within the app. Sure. Sure. So you can actually put- Don't mix them up. That's my advice. It's got. That [INAUDIBLE] have actually got a special kind of locker feature. This allows you to put certain apps Into a kind of a, it sandboxes them. And if you try and enter the app, it provides this sort of, almost like a second layer of authentication, by you have to use your thumbprint again to just access the app. So it really locks those up sound. So if you've got a version of Instagram that is a company version and you want to You will need your fingerprint to access it and it's sat proof from your own personal, Okay. So it's that kind of thing. So working on bringing more of that to the phone, and they're also working on better, cuz this Obviously the specs aren't quite as good as they are for the main flagship phone, it's much cheaper, so that's what you would expect and it's got a small, among that it's got a smaller battery. So it's working on bringing some new power management features. For example, if you've forgotten to charge a phone, it'll look in your, it will look At your calendar and your diary and your daily habits to kind of like find a spot where it thinks this would be a good time for you to charge it, your not doing- What? -Anything else then and it will give you a reminder and be like "Hey, like charge your phone now" and like. Wow, that's cool it's like your having a nap "I'm going to power down a bit" Yeah. That's amazing. So, yeah so it's like- That's quite clever actually I like that that's such a good a cool thing. -Yeah. So, like so Blackberry actually surprised me. [LAUGH] But I'm surprised. Yeah. I was thinking, wrap this up. Wrap this up. But actually [LAUGH] Yeah. That is probably more time than we spent talking about Blackberry for years. Exactly. Yeah. Just give them, that's it for the next year now. [LAUGH] It's had it's lot. The other phone use out of ether was not actually a launch. It was just Just the launch date for the next big Huawei flagship phone. I think Huawei made 20 and that's gonna be on the 20th of October in London. So, we will be attending that event. Exciting, in person, yeah. Yes and Yeah, and that's something to look forward to. And so Ether it's, like I said the phones are usually earlier in the year and we see, but Ether is well known for it's home stuff, so for example, there's always a lot of big tvs right? Yeah. Really big tvs. See any big TVs? Well yes, we did. We saw lots of huge TVs. In particular, we saw Samsung 8K TV. 8K? 8K TV. It's the Q900. And if I think that I'm right, it might be. I'm just going to check this, 90 5 inches of screen. Okay, so they didn't go for the 100? They were so close. They thought, should be just go for it? [LAUGH] 8K though? Yeah, so I mean we've talked a lot about 4K before. And our conclusion is that It's nice to have, but it's not, there comes a point where, especially if you're talking about TV in your lounge, increasing the resolution isn't gonna make much difference, because our eyes are only so good. [LAUGH] Yeah. The screen resolution can keep getting better and better and better, but Ultimately it's not gonna change our experience. Yeah. We've passed the singularity of TV's that TV's are better than we can, the human eyes can perceive. Basically. Only robots can fully enjoy TV now. But, on a massive cinema screen for example, it could make a huge difference to have Something that is this resolution. Well, that said, I can't remember if I talked about this on the podcast last time, but I did an interview recently with the visual effects people who do, the guy that had done the visual effects on Vanity Fair, the TV show. He made an interesting point, that that was a show that was made for Amazon and iTV here in the UK. But Those shows that are made in 4k, they're more detailed than a movie. Yeah. So, the amount of detail that goes in there, they're like sit there CGing in little tiny cword scene, the tiny of tiniest of people. Much more detail than you'd get in a movie. Yeah. And I think a lot of there are some things that have already been filmed in in 8K. Really? Yes, some, a couple of films I think. I can't remember exactly which titles, but the issue as well is when you are starting to film stuff in 8K, First is the cost of cameras. So there are the company that makes really high end cameras, Red, already makes some cameras that are capable of filming in a cave. But obviously, they're really expensive. And then the other thing is size of the files. You know, cuz If you're filming in much, much higher resolution, it's just going to increase the file size. So, if you're talking about a whole TV series, never mind a film, if you had a whole TV series, that's a huge amount of data to be. Streaming or downloading.>> Yea.. Yea, Yea. And even making it. I mean the fact that again, these visual effects guys, their working on these huge, huge files and every frame is this huge, huge thing, So, yea, it's a Maybe there's gonna be, there's always sort of a bit of a lag, isn't there, between a new format and then actual content for it. So don't rush out and buy an 8K TV just yet. Yeah, I mean you can't just yet, it will be out later this year. So then we have no idea how much they would cost then, I guess? I'm sure if we've got a price for it just yet. Okay, that would be a lot, I imagine. Although I know that So this is the first 8K television that I think is gonna be kind of publicly available. But I think there was a company that put out a screen that was an 8K screen- Okay. Earlier this year. And I think it was selling for $11,000. Wow. So- There's nothing you can watch on it. Yeah [LAUGH]. You can watch two 4K movies side by side, that's about it. But I think that this is something that we're gonna, it's obviously a big, kinda headline grabbing thing for the show. It's a great Thing for something to have and to be fast on. But when it, yeah like he said, don't rush out by the more or even plummed by them anytime soon because I don't think it'll be really worth it. Yeah. We're only starting to get into the territory where 4K is worth investigating and I think Increasingly we're seeing 4K content available, 4K streaming and eventually that will be the industry standard. Yeah, I think maybe we should draw a line. Maybe we should say 4K and that's it. That's where we're going to draw a line. Yeah, we can focus on improving other areas of technology. I mean there is plenty of other things I need improving, I could write a whole list Like not undermining elections, that kinda thing. Yeah, exactly. All those guys who are working on 8K TVs, just take them off that. Mm-hm. Put them on election thing, we'll have solved it in no time. Yes, yeah. You can have that one for free, @Jack. That's how it works, right? Just gonna @Jack right now. [LAUGH] Were there any other kinda big trends? I know Alexa. Yes. is always, was a trend of these things. Yeah. So we found out at the show that Alexa is now on over 20 thousand different devices. Wow. Which is up from four thousand in January this year. So that's like a five fold increase in the Again, shall we draw a line. Alexa enabled, yeah, devices available. One of the sort of stand out or more interesting Alexa enabled devices from the show was Was from Huawei. Mm-hm. It was they've kind of got into the smart speaker market. Mm-hm. And this is a kind of their rival to I guess, the Google Home, and Amazon's Echo, and the Apple HomePod. Now that speaker is also a 4G router. It's kind of Pretty much the same as the others. My favorite thing about it though is that it's got the Huawei AI cube, and let me tell you, it is not a cube, it is very much a cylinder. [LAUGH] That's absolutely brilliant. So I enjoyed the irony of that. Yeah, that's excellent naming for Huawei. Well done, Huawei. So they're gaslighting us now. Yeah. [LAUGH] This is a cube, this is not a cylinder. It's reinterpreted the cube. You could be like, hey Alexa, what shape is this? It is a cube. Alexa, it's not. Yes, it is. And then eventually you'll start to believe it. Eventuallly yeah, yeah, to be gaslighted by Alexa. We should say that Alexa is Amazon's voice controlled personal assistant. Where you ask it to do things like play your music and that kinda thing or control your thermostat and all that kinda stuff. Are we any closer, do you think, looking at the stuff that come out of the ether, are we any closer to deciding which of these voice assistants is the best? Is it Alexa, is it Apple, is it Google Assistant or whatever it's called? The thing is, I think it's not Such a question that what's best is, what's most ubiquitous at the moment? So when people are buying products to work with the other products what they want to see is Consistency across the whole range of stuff that they've got. And you've kinda gotta choose an ecosystem, haven't you? Yeah, a little bit. And until we can, I mean maybe we'll reach a point where we can find some sort of interoperability between them but that hasn't happened on other systems, on Mobile operating system. You talk to Alexa, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna talk to Siri anytime soon. Yeah. There are some devices that have Google home and a Google system. It changes it name every five minute, beside of this track and Alexa are on the same device which is kind of interesting. So, I don't think that necessarily that is a sign Alexa is significantly better then All of these other assitance at all, it's just the fact that if you get it on enough stuff on it becomes the go to thing, it's a little bit like Google getting android on everything. Right. It's just people more likely, people know what it is. They get comfortable with it, they buy more of it. So, Yeah, could become standard, yeah. By default. Yeah. Yes, and I think that seeing big companies like other big tech companies like, Huawei, Huawei doesn't necessarily have to, it doesn't have any allegiance to any particular thing in terms of who's gonna partner with and it partners with all of these companies on various things And its chosen Alexa and I think the more big companies we see who are sort of staking their claim and saying no we're going with this because maybe that is a sign that for them. Also it's not just the ubiquity but It works for them. In some ways work for their technology. Who knows? Yeah. But yeah, and we're also, we're gonna see some think we had this week as well that some things are gonna be opening up as owned rival Bigspi to developers. I think it is- They've been about it for years. Yeah. Bigspy. I like that name. It's quite old-fashioned. It sounds like a butler. But I actually think that there should be a challenge for you because you have a histroy of going with the real underdog. [LAUGH] You were the one that was championing Windows phone. Yeah, and look where I ended up. Yeah. I think you should be the one that Takes Bixby and- [LAUGH] And drives it into the ground. Makes the case for it. Yeah, so far. I'll adopt it, and then everyone will know that's about the one not to go for. But listen, Samsung, they've sold a lot of phones and tablets. If they Bixby up and running properly, I don't know why it's taking them so long. But if they can get it up and running properly, there's a bit captive market there. Cuz that's what Siri's all about, right? So many people already owned iPhones that they put Siri on it. I think just automatically had million people using it. Yeah, obviously the issue that Samsung has is the same with them when introduced Samsung Pay people also have Android Pay, Google Wallet, they also have Google Assistant available to them on an Android phone as well so it's just not That it's not necessarily gonna be their first choice, so yeah. Well, there you go, so any other things, any less exciting novelty things that came out of the [UNKNOWN]? What was your best experience? My best experience was Let me think. There was a very exciting- Doesn't have to be tech related. Okay, as in Great Bear. There was a gaming channel that a lot of people were very excited about. It was a massive thing. LG had this kind of exoskeleton, robot legs. The angel legs, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, that was quite cool. There was some fridges doing different things. I mean there was one that could like vacuum seal within the fridge, vacuum sealing a food, I don't really understand a lot of their appliance stuff but- I love the fridge stuff. Yeah, I mean effectively they are all sorts of Getting slowly smarter but and they are moving, some of those features are moving away from being like a novelty thing to be in just like a standard inbuilt thing into fridges which is something for us all to get used to. I mean it's not like we go out buying a fridge everyday. So like, I mean I don't know how long a fridge lasts but several years so I know that I won't be probably getting one of those any time soon but Well, that's the thing about a lot of household appliences, isn't it? Fridges and TVs, they're very very occasional purchases. Yeah. So they've gotta keep trying to think of new gimicks to sell these things. Yeah. But yeah, I think So yes, some interesting fridges. And our appliace team did an amazing job of getting all of them and covering all of them. And we've got a big E4 roundup on the site that you can go to and you can see all of the fridges, [LAUGH] and everything else. And, some of the thrilling phones that are coming to Europe [LAUGH] Including the new Blackberry. Yeah. [LAUGH] Wow, I haven't said that for a good few years. Yeah, and so yeah, you should go and check that out if you want to catch up with all of our [UNKNOWN] coverage it's not too late, you can still get it, they're still relevant. Even if you didn't care about fridges. Honestly, it's worth it. Look at the crazy stuff that's going on in the world of [UNKNOWN] right now. There's definitely something about. I remember a wine cooler thing, as well. That was very interesting. There's some interesting stuff happening in the wine technology world. I can't believe I really said that, but There's all kind of different devices that were like, put sentences on your wine bottle to tell you when it's ready to drink and all this kind of thing which is kind of interesting. Yeah, what I really need is just something to tell me what wine is good to drink and then maybe I can get to the point of working out when it's It's good to drink. Right, yeah, yeah, baby steps. Yeah, but I'm sure wine connoisseurs will appreciate that. Absolutely, all right, well, that's it for this week. If you haven't yet sworn off Twitter because it's a hell website of terrible stuff happening, then you can find us there. [LAUGH] As one of the few bright spots, you might say. Yes, I only tweet nice things. And you tweet as? I tweet as Katie Collins, just my name. I am @richknightwell, with a K, and you can also, of course, find CNET on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and wherever you get your social stuff from. Don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes if you've enjoyed the podcast or a comment on YouTube as long as its again nice, lets keep it clean lets keep it clean and yeah thank you very much for listening and we'll see you next time. Bye.