3D graphics cardsCNET's Rich Brown just finished reviewing a handful of PC graphics cards, so he and Dan Ackerman are ready to discuss what he found. They're also standing by to take your questions about graphics and PC gaming.
[ music ] ^M00:00:03 >> Hey now, welcome back to Editor's Office Hours. That's the show where we take a different CNET editor every week, tie them down in the CNET sensory deprivation chamber, and force them to answer your questions for thirty minutes. I'm Dan Ackerman, joining me here in the Big Apple is Rich Brown. >> What's up, how you doing guy? >> Rich, what are we gonna be talking about today? >> Well hopefully, today we'll be talking about 3D graphics cards. That's what I've been playing with. >> That's a big topic now. I got to tell you, we've been doing this show for a while, this is the first time you've been on it. >> It is, I know. >> You know, Lori's been on like three times, and she hates this kind of stuff. I'm just saying. >> All right, well you know, send me an invite, send me an invite, I'll come out. >> We'll bring you back for sound cards. >> All right. >> So let's jump right into the questions. If you have a question for Rich, there's a little white box next to his head, you can type the question in right there, and we will try to get to it. There's also a chat box right below us that you can chat with other people watching the show, unless you're watching this recorded later, in which case just sit back and have a good time. So let's start off with I think probably the most basic, right up the middle question you can get. What is the best 3D card for the dollar right now? >> Well we just reviewed about six different cards right now across various price points. >> Pretty good timing then. >> Yeah, right? It works out well, funny how that happens. So we had a hundred fifty dollar, three hundred dollar, and four hundred fifty, five hundred ish - >> And that's per card. >> Yeah, per card. And the one we liked best, the sweet spot for three hundred bucks is Sapphire's Radeon HD4850X2. >> Okay, so that's an ATI based card. >> It's an ATI card, it's actually a dual chip card, so you may run into some scaling issues on games that maybe don't support multi-chips - >> Okay. >> as well as they should. >> Multi-chip means what? That means two - >> Two chips on one card. >> Like crossfire in one card. >> Crossfire in a stick, SLI - >> Okay, so it's the same effect that you'd get from having two cards. >> Exactly, exactly that. >> Can you put two of those together and get like four? >> You can, you can put two together and get four quadfire as they say. >> Quadfire, okay. >> But this one card, three hundred bucks, pretty much best performance for its price. And it's cool because you can do four DVI outputs to it, so you can get four displays going at one time. >> So between the three hundred dollar cards like that, and even the more expensive five hundred, six hundred dollar cards, what's the difference in performance? Is it major? Or is it you know, kind of just a nice little boost? >> The biggest difference is those higher end cards will let you play on like a thirty inch LCD. >> Okay, so support high resolution. >> Yeah, your high resolutions, you really dial up everything. You know, but for most people twenty two inch display, twenty four inch display, a three hundred dollar card will be fine. Course the other thing you get is head room, right? So spend five hundred bucks now, that's less you know, it's gonna last you a little bit longer, you wont have to upgrade as soon. >> Tommy from the chat room, 4870 for the win. >> That's an option for sure. >> So when you're trading up for one of these cards, higher resolution, bigger screens, what resolution do I want to be playing a big game at these days? I remember when you know, sixteen by twelve was big. >> Yeah, you know, so we tested with widescreen LCD resolutions, and - >> That's sixteen by nine. >> Sixteen by nine, exactly. So we tied to nineteen inch, twenty two inch, and twenty four inch. Those are the resolutions we test. Twenty four inch is probably the high end for most people, thirty inches you get up to like twenty five by sixteen. That's, we kind of figured most people don't have that monitor, you know? Maybe a few people do, but we want to try to stay where most people can relate. So you're looking at fourteen by nine, sixteen by ten, and nineteen by twelve. >> Okay, so those are the most common gaming resolutions right now. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So nVidea keeps talking, not ATI, that's got a big win there with their card, but nVidea keeps talking about visual computing. What is it, why should I care? I don't even know, illuminate me. >> What it really means. Yeah, so it means a lot of things, right? Like nVidea's kind of coined this term, and they've done a lot of marketing around it, but what it basically means is using your graphics card to do other stuff besides 3D games. >> Okay. >> So Photoshop for example has a new feature where you can do some more accelerated zooming on images, and it's all entirely driven by the graphics card, and you couldn't do that previously. >> Right, okay. >> So that particular feature, as well as a bunch of others, they're graphics card agnostic, like they will work across - >> Different cards. >> - whoever's card, it doesn't matter the vendor. But then nVidea has its own Kooda [assumed spelling] based programming - >> I've heard of that, okay. >> - language, right? You may have heard about that, where you know, certain apps are programmed around Kooda, and those apps will only work on nVidea graphics cards. >> Oh okay, okay, a little proprietary - >> A little proprietary, kind of similar thing. >> Now for the average consumer, it's probably not anything they're gonna really use every day, unless they zoom in really, really, really, really close and - >> I would say right now you probably don't have a critical mass of Kooda, or general visual computing apps. What probably will be the watershed moment for that is whenever Direct X eleven hits. >> Okay. >> And that is, I thought it was gonna be with Windows seven, but I guess it's not necessarily. >> Well Windows seven could still be a year out. >> Yeah, right? So but whenever Direct X eleven is done, that'll work on Vista, and on Windows seven. >> Now will that help systems run like you know, HD video? >> Yeah, so Direct X eleven will support visual computing, you know, essentially, will support visual computing natively. So anybody can write an app to it, and it'll work just like Direct X does for 3D games. >> Okay. Now is ATI gonna have their own kind of branded version of that? >> ATI, they have, they've, so there's open CL, which is pioneered by Apple, which is essentially the compete, I mean saying competing right now is a little tough, because it's still pretty early. >> And kind of the same family. >> But sort of an alternate idea of the same kind of visual computing. >> Now should we all just work on one standard instead? >> It depends on who you talk to. nVidea will say - >> Talk to nVidea, they'll say no. >> Yeah, talk to nVidea they'll say no. I've talked to nVidea, they've told me actually that it's not oppositional, that you know, you shouldn't worry about Kooda and Direct X eleven and all these other things competing against each other. It really depends on the apps, you know what I mean? >> Well it's like a year or two ago, you started seeing games that had a big nVidea kind of splash screen, or nVidea branding in their ads, or ATI branding, and people thought oh I have to have this kind of card to play this game, or I'll get something extra if I have that kind of card. >> Yep, yep. >> But it turned out for the most part that actually wasn't true, it was just sort of marketing. >> Yeah, you know what I mean? Those guys are in a tough position, right? Because the thing they want to do is they want to differentiate, they want to move the conversation away from you know, just how fast is it for the dollar, you know, so they're trying all this other stuff. And you know, who knows. Visual computing, or whatever you want to call it could eventually be this great thing that changes the way we use our computers. But - >> You have to force someone to shell out extra money, hundreds of dollars even, for a component they don't even see on a regular basis, it's inside their box. >> Yeah, it's kind of tough. The whole concept, I mean 3D, most people don't even understand what a 3D card is, let alone telling them that they - >> That's true, 75% of computers are sold with just integrated graphics setup. >> I think the numbers, that's probably close, I don't know the exact number. But - >> I'm just guessing. >> But yeah. >> Just cause people don't know, they go to Dell and they order a machine, and they don't look at that little pull down option, or they don't understand what those choices mean. >> Well with Vista, right? I mean that was the big thing. Like I think people started to kind of - >> Mister Capable and Mister Ready. >> Yeah, but I think people kind of started to get the idea that oh maybe the graphics, I do need to care what the graphics are, and I think maybe that gave, I think that gave [inaudible] graphics cards a lift. >> That's true. Although nVidea really had a win with the MacBook they put out most recently that had their new integrated chipset, that did actually decent graphics. >> Yep, yep. >> We were able to run Quake 4 on there, and whatever other games are running these days, I think it was the 9400 for the laptops, that's what they called it. >> Yeah, they're - >> That's slowly filtering into Windows-based machines now. But the fact that you could run like Call Duty 4 just on the integrated graphics in a laptop I thought was amazing. >> That's pretty good, yeah that's pretty good. >> So maybe more of that kind of mid-range consumer level advanced graphics stuff that's not quite a five hundred dollar card. >> Yeah, you know what I mean? >> Kind of tip the scales towards people realizing they need this sort of horsepower. >> You certainly don't need to spend five hundred bucks to play a game, that's for sure. You know, I mean even a hundred fifty dollar card will do a pretty good job these day. >> So we talked about Direct X eleven, what's up with Direct X eleven? That's another question we have in our little question list. >> Yeah, so that was just - >> Now before you get into that, Direct X ten, wasn't that kind of a bit of a debacle? >> Not really debacle. I mean so it's tied to Vista, right? >> Right. >> So you know, everybody's like oh Vista. >> 10.1 and then some cards were 10 and not 10.1. >> Yeah, I mean I think the way you need to look at this, look at Direct X and the way that affects games and the stuff we play you know, where we really see it have a benefit, it's a very gradual process, right? So Fallout 3 comes out now, and that game looks great, but it's just Direct X nine, you know what I mean? >> Ah yes. >> So we're just kind of on the tail end of you know, Direct X nine, and people are really pushing that hard, and showing what that can do. So I think you know, eventually we'll start to see, you know, maybe Direct X ten will be bypassed, because it sounds like - >> Almost like Vista, it gets passed over - >> - DX eleven, yeah, exactly. >> Like XP to Windows seven. >> It may be something like that. >> Okay, okay. >> So we may you know, it's a gradual process. I think, and it's sort of hard to pin down as far as like an actual feature. It's more like you can do more of stuff we've already been doing, for the most part, as opposed to you know, an entirely new graphical type of tool. >> Now if I buy two five hundred dollar cards right now, in eight months or twelve months when Direct X eleven comes out, is that gonna work with that? Or am I gonna have to upgrade again? >> It will work, for sure it will work. That's actually one of the things with Direct X eleven, it's fully backwards compatible. >> Okay. >> Whereas Direct X ten, not so much. ^M00:10:07 >> Not being certified for Direct X eleven now. >> You will, I expect that we'll have Direct X eleven specific hardware. But - >> Not right away. >> Not right away. >> Not until we get kind of the spec you know - >> Yeah, I bet we'll start to see it by the end of the year. >> Are there beta versions of like kind of Direct X code floating around that you've seen? >> I don't think so, no, nothing I've seen. >> Okay, too early for that. >> Yeah. >> Speaking of new stuff like Direct X, what is up with Intel maybe entering the graphics card market? >> Yeah. You know, Intel's been there before, they'd had their old what was it, Starfighter card. >> Okay. >> I think back in the day. >> I just remember Voodoo. >> Yeah, that was one of their - >> I mean I got a big Voodoo card for Christmas one year like two years before they decided to go out of business. >> Ouch, that must not have worked well for your support needs after that. >> That's right. >> But yeah, so you know, they have their integrated chips they've had for a while, and they are currently, Intel's currently working on a technology called Larabie, which to be honest, I don't fully understand it, because I haven't had to. The thing's not out yet. >> Right. >> I can't put my hands on it. But basically what it is, is, from what I've heard it's a discrete graphics card - >> Okay. >> The design is somewhat similar to a CPU and a GPU, it sounds like they're talking about multi-threaded kind of stuff. I'm not really sure it's that different from a typical graphics card architecture. >> They're trying to paint, so the platform where you get their chipset and their CPU and their graphics stuff all together, so they can sell you every link of the chain. >> Yes. I think that's their goal. You know, and I think to a certain extent they're trying to counteract nVidea's push, saying you know, you don't need this. [inaudible] processor so much, as long as you have strong graphics, it's sort of - >> And they also again, they're indeed a greater graphics, they're into chipsets, you know. >> Yeah. So it's kind of like this whole one upsmanship going on. >> So when do you think we'll see something from Intel on that front? >> Last rumor I heard was 2010. >> 2010, which is not actually that far away. It feels, that sounds like it's a long, it's a long time away. But speaking of one experiment that maybe didn't work out so well, what happened to Phys-X? Remember that, Phys-X? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Is that still around? >> Oh yeah, it's absolutely still around. >> - X cards, you get a separate card, you put it in, it does - >> You know, so you can, I believe nVidea will still, so nVidea bought Phys-X - >> Okay. >> - is what ultimately happened. And I believe you still can buy a dedicated Phys-X card and stick it in your computer. >> 10% more boulders. >> Yeah, all the boulders you want. >> But where it is now, is integrated, so essentially nVideas with this is they want game developers to build around Phys-X, and then if you have an nVidea card, the card will do all that. Your nVidea graphic card will essentially do that Phys-X calculation. So either you can split it off onto one card, or you can have you know, two cards on your system, one nVidea card doing Phys-X, the other doing graphics. So it's again, another differentiator kind of thing. The PC version - >> - in that really affects the game, because if you don't have that card, you know, what, this gun doesn't work, this level you can't go into the building. >> Yeah, the same classic chicken and egg problem. So the PC version of Mirror's Edge for example has Phys-X support. >> Okay. >> And there are all these little tacked on features, like more exploding glass, you see like some flags whipping around in the background. But - >> Nothing that actually physically - >> You know, they say if you shoot out the glass in this one level, it'll drop on the guys and kill them in a way that you know, you can't get if you play the game with an ATI card. It's like all right, fair enough, but - >> I guess. >> It seems like the idea of game physics could be a whole lot more than that, and nobody's really done much with it so far. >> Well the thing about Mirror's Edge, which is a port of a concept game - >> Yeah. >> A lot of big games, Fallout was the same way, Bioshack was the same way, built for the console and then ported to the PC, are there any big PC games coming out this year that are gonna require you know, a big hefty video card upgrade from anybody? >> Well let's see. I don't think a big - >> Like Crisis was the last big one people really talked about. >> Yeah, that was sort of a weird animal. >> That was a weird animal, but then it didn't really sell either. >> It didn't do that well is what I understand. But it still kind of set this benchmark, right? >> Yes. >> So you know, it was an early attempt - >> The benchmark was your computer can't play this game. >> Yeah. It was an early attempt at showing off Direct X ten, and really pulling out all the stops. You know, yeah, it was tough. I think Fear 2 is just about to hit - >> Yes. >> - for the PC, I think it shipped today even. I played around with a demo, that was pretty impressive. >> Yeah, I played around with the console demo. Yeah, kind of scary. >> Yeah, right? A little intense. >> The same time, kind of like Fear 1 too. >> Very corridor driven. >> Yeah, you walk down the hall, the guys are waiting there for you to shoot them, you can switch them to slow motion, scary little ghost girl. >> Yeah, I want to play the full game, you know, don't want to judge on a - >> Played a lot of Fire Cry 2. >> I haven't played Fire Cry 2. >> I got really bored like two hours into it. >> Yeah, it looks great. But it's like the same, like driving. >> Driving around, okay. >> Driving to different destinations is not cool. >> All right, cleaned out this machine gun nest, thirty seconds later, oh they're back, okay. >> Yeah, oh they're back. It's like the unlimited - >> Wait, I got to find a save point. >> Yeah. I like what they did their technically, but the game play maybe not so much, could use a little tightening. >> Right. So nothing big coming out, coming down the pipeline in terms of PC games that you can think of. >> I'm trying to think what else in terms of really pushing graphics. >> Yeah. I think this may not be the right environment economically for a big kind of big budget triple A PC game push right now. >> Well I mean - >> What about Spore? Was that a graphic intensive game? Could you really dial it up? >> No, they were really trying that, trying to make that as widespread, you know, as accessible as possible. >> So even if you cranked everything all the way up, it wasn't that far up. >> I don't think so. >> Okay. >> We never did a Spore benchmark, you know, yeah I think it was pretty easy. >> Here's a good techie question. What are pixel pipelines? >> What are pixel pipelines. >> Yes. >> So now I, and I'm not an electrical engineer, I should admit that first of all. >> But I play one on TV. >> I play one on TV, I'll do my best here. So the way I understand a pipeline on a graphics card is it's basically, if you think of like a CPU right, it has multiple processing cores. Essentially what I believe a pipeline is on a graphics card is that sort of, that same sort of thing, like it has multiple cores for processing the info, and it can be pixels, it can be shaders, it could be geometry. Or with you know, visual computing it can be whatever - >> Any kind of [inaudible]. >> - you want to send down that pipe. So modern graphics cards have what the heck is it, I guess like around two hundred fifty some odd different processing pipes. >> Okay. >> So, and so they're programmable, so you can send whatever you want down them. So - >> So it's sort of how many different things it can think about at one time. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Exactly. >> Okay. From the chat room, Far Cry 2 long and dull. >> Yeah. >> So they're commenting. >> You know, it had some good set pieces. >> Yeah. >> I haven't finished it, but you know, you get to a certain spot where you're supposed to have a big fire fight, that could be fun. But yeah, a lot of driving around. >> Let's see, is nVidea actually coming out with the rumored X86 CPU? >> No, I don't know if I've heard that rumor. >> I haven't either, I don't know that. >> The way I understand that - >> It's kind of juicy though, that's why I threw it in there. >> Yeah, it sounds interesting. The way I understand that is Intel has the - >> - a question asker, send us some leaked info. >> Yeah, yeah, seriously. The way I understand that though is that Intel has the license to make X86 products. >> Ah, okay. >> AMD can - >> I mean yes, Intel, that's right. >> Yeah, so AMD has the rights to make you know, X86 chips, nVidea does not. As to how they might acquire that license some day, I don't really care to speculate on that one. >> Okay, okay. Back to meat and potatoes issues, we're actually burning through our time really quick. >> Okay. >> So much that we're not even gonna pause and watch a video cause there's so many people want to know about this stuff. What is the most cost effective way to build a PC, and what card should you choose, with either Crossfire or SLI. >> The most cost effective way. >> I guess he's kind of asking should I just go to a vendor and custom make it there, or should I get all the parts at like New Egg and build it, or you know, what should I do. >> Yeah, well I mean you know, traditionally you can buy all the parts at New Egg. And depending on how well you value your time, build it yourself, you know. And if you're good at it - >> And you think he'll save some money that way. >> Probably save some money, yeah. >> But there are always some like really low end vendors who have all these parts almost at cost really. And you could build a machine that technically would cost about the same, but then it would kind of build issue, build quality - >> Yeah, and again that probably is how confident you are in supporting yourself. As for Crossfire and SLI, again you know, I think at the top of the show we recommended that 4850X2 card from Sapphire, that's crossfire, you know, two chips on one board. >> Yep. >> That's a great way to get Crossfire if you really want it. >> Are video cards moving in that direction, where you're gonna see more kind of two on one card, rather than making people slave up two cards? >> Probably not. I imagine we'll continue to see them, but I don't think that will replace SLI, you know, too distinct - >> For Crossfire, do you still need that bridge? >> If you have two cards, yeah you do, yeah. >> It's only that physical bridge. But for now you don't right? >> No, no, you do. >> Oh you do. >> Yeah. >> There's still a physical cable connecting the two cards. >> Yep. >> Yeah, I remember ATI had a clunkier - >> There's was on the oh yeah, right there's was on the outside. Yeah, yeah, there's was external. >> So did they get rid of that yet. >> They did get rid of that, yeah. >> Okay, that's good. >> It's now the same, it's just a little piece of [inaudible]. >> Speaking of SLI and Crossfire, here's a good question. Do I actually need two video cards, or two GPU's? >> No. >> Okay, good. >> No, absolutely not. >> I mean do you really get twice the performance? Probably not, right? >> Two X performance is pretty rare. >> Yeah. >> It depends on the game. ^M00:20:01 Usually it's depending you know, between one and a half, 1.8, you know, depending on the game and the resolution. >> So should I buy two mid-range cards, or one high end card? >> Again, tied to your monitor. What's your monitor, right? >> Okay. >> So if you can't get beyond a certain resolution on your monitor, there's no point in spending a high end, you know, spending on a high end card. >> Okay, so - >> For performance, no. >> - the high end card will let you support higher resolutions. >> Yeah, I usually find that the mid-range sweet spot is good for now. If you can afford it, shell out for the five hundred dollar one, or so, and that will certainly last you. But you might sort of feel some buyer's remorse once new features get introduced, and you find that your expensive graphics card can't support them. >> About how often do you think hardcore PC gamers upgrade their GPU's. >> I know some people do it - >> Quarterly? >> - couple times a year. Yeah, quarterly, probably a couple times a year. But I think that's probably for the truly dedicated. >> Sure, sure. The hobbyists. >> Yeah. >> The guys who tinker on it like it's an old car up on blocks in the garage. >> I mean it's such a wide market, I'm not sure if there is a typical for those guys. >> So speaking of going towards the widest part of the market. >> Yeah. >> Can I play WoW with integrated graphics? >> My wife used to do it, yeah. >> Okay. >> You absolutely can. >> Is it an acceptable experience? Or do you really get a lot out of getting some decicated graphics in there? >> Of course it's gonna look better. You know, you can dial it up, and you know, get - >> But they built it to run on almost anything with like a screen in a heartbeat. >> Yep. >> Okay, okay. Now if I was gonna upgrade let's say in that hundred and fifty dollar range, or are there a lot of ninety nine dollar cards out there? Or should I just avoid those? >> Yeah, that'll get, I mean if you all you want to do is play WoW, and, or like the Sims. >> But one would be kind of nice, you know, nice. >> Yeah, you know, as long as you have enough memory in your system, and a fast enough CPU, and all you want to do is play WoW, you know, the Sims, pretty straight forward. You know, games aren't your real demanding shooters, yeah you'll be fine, drop seventy five, a hundred bucks. >> Okay, so for one fifty what should I get? >> One fifty we actually found it doesn't really matter as far as - >> They're all kind of the same. >> They're all basically more or less the same. The one difference you might, so AMD's lower end card, one fifty dollar card is the single slot. >> Okay. >> But it's less power efficient than nVidea's card at the same price. But the weird part is nVidea's card is a dual slotter. So it all depends on what you value more, space inside your system - >> Right. >> - or power efficiency. >> Do people use a lot of those smaller form factor cases now, so is fitting the cards in becoming a problem, or do people still have those gigantic tanks of cases? >> I think they're still all over the place. >> Still all over the place. >> Yeah. >> What do you like? What do you have? >> What do I have? >> Yeah, what card is in your rig? >> What card is in my rig. >> I know you're a big WoW player. >> Yeah, well you know, actually I quit. >> You quit? >> I quit WoW, yeah. >> Cold turkey? Or did you have to taper off? >> I walked away. >> And how long has that been? Forty five minutes now? >> Actually it's been about a week. >> Oh it really has only been a week. >> Yeah. >> And you haven't blogged about this yet? >> No, not yet. >> I think you should do a weekly blog update on how you're doing, do you have a sponsor? >> That's a good idea, I should get a sponsor. >> You get your two week chip yet? >> Yeah, no, it's you know, I feel good. It's like I just quit a second job. >> One that didn't actually pay you anything. >> Yeah, right, except for stress at home. But yeah, no, what was the question again? I totally forgot what we were - >> Something about WoW, and that's always fun. >> Yeah. >> I saw a lot of this 3D stuff people are doing. >> Oh yeah. >> What's going on with that? Are we finally gonna have 3D PC games, and am I gonna need extra hardware for that besides the goofy glasses? >> You will need extra hardware, unfortunately. You always do. >> Extra, like different video cards. >> Depends on which way you want to go. No, the video cards will be the same. >> Okay. >> If you go with let's see, if you're an nVidea loyalist, you buy you know, drop, you need to, everybody's gonna need a hundred and twenty hertz LCD - >> Okay. >> - to make this happen. And you can either get one from Samsung, or one of the more general guys, and the special nVidea glasses, or you can spend about twice as much for this IZ3D monitor - >> Okay, so that's the monitor. >> - and the glasses that work with the ATI. >> Now do the games have to be specially coded to work with the 3D, or does it kind of figure out from the fact that it's processing actual 3D graphics. >> From what I understand, most games have the code built in already. >> Okay. >> I think some games maybe do it better than others, or just the code works out better than others. So I think maybe some games handle it better than others right now. But I know that everybody involved was working to try to get those games up to snuff, and they wanted - >> I know for years we saw all these kind of klunky 3D sort of solutions, where they put an overlay over the screen, or give you these glasses that work with like any game, and just kind of made up sort of fake free to go along with it. >> Yeah. >> But none of them have really worked. From what you've seen recently, is it a promising technology? >> You know, it looked really cool. Yeah, I got demos from both those guys. And I got to spend a little more time with the nVidea one, and you know, it really does look dramatically different than playing just you know, to looking at a normal flat screen monitor. You know, you have to wear glasses, so you know, there's that. And it's, you have to shell out more for the hardware. >> And those glasses, I can never get them over my actual, they need to make like a big like goofy visor version to go over my actual glasses. >> You want that, really? Like some Blue Blockers maybe? >> Well what am I supposed, yeah, what am I supposed to do? I can see in 3D, but it's just this blob over here, and this blob, I can't see anything. >> Yeah, you know, they said, when I went to the video demo, they made a big point saying it'll fit over any glasses. But - >> Okay, I got pretty big glasses. >> Yeah, maybe not yours. >> A little fashion forward here, okay, this is my little granny glasses here. >> I think the IZ3D guys have a, like a - >> How about lenses. >> Like a clip on kind of thing. The lenses? The lenses may be on the way, I don't know. >> Does this have anything to do with nVidea's G Force 3D vision? >> Yes. That's - >> So that's their version of it? >> That's exactly, yeah, that's what it's called. >> Okay, okay. And when do you think we're gonna start seeing stuff like this actually in the marketplace? Cause all the demos I saw, it was like oh tis stuff we're working on, but it's not really an actual product. It was just - >> I believe you can purchase it now, I know the Samsung, I know the normal one twenty hertz hit - >> Right. >> - like right at CES, and I think the glasses did as well. >> Oh, okay. >> You should be able to run out and purchase this stuff. >> But not something anybody should leap into just now unless they're really a - >> I mean if you have like you know, six hundred bucks to throw around, sure go for it. >> So when we're looking towards the rest of the year, there's some big new 3D technology coming out we're gonna have to keep an eye out for, or are we just gonna see incremental improvements in what we have right now? >> Well I think Windows 7 is really gonna be the PC story for the rest of the year. >> Is that gonna be a very gaming centric operating system? Vista sort of said it was going to be, and maybe it wasn't, they had that special games screen where they would keep you know, menu where they would keep all your game info. >> Yep. >> Like give you that rating to make sure you could play the game. >> Did you use that? I know I didn't. >> I think it just clocked like your lowest thing and said that's your score. >> Oh the rating, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. >> It had ability - >> We didn't put a lot of stock in that. It shouldn't be. I think the good news with Windows 7 is that it shouldn't be. I think all the kinks, they worked out all the kinks with Vista, and that was the big switch, between XP and Vista, the driver model there. And the good news is that Windows 7 uses Vista's driver model, so there is no change, and everybody's kind of figured it - >> Okay, so we're all sort of - >> More or less. >> We've got the basic work out of the way in terms of making this work. >> Yeah. So I think we're kind of in the clear as far as a big dramatic capability problem. >> Okay, for Windows 7, which may be out by the end of the year, may be out in early 2010. >> Yeah. I've heard end of the year. >> Finally, are they ever gonna make the minimum system requirements on the bottom of the game boxes actually realistic? >> You should write a letter to the - [ laughter ] >> - the PCGA. From what I understand, those guys are worried - >> That's right, are they still around? >> Yeah. >> A bunch of companies came together and formed what, the PC Gamers - >> The PC Gaming Alliance, yes. It's all the hardware guys, all the software guys. >> Like a trade group of everyone involved in PC gaming. >> Yeah, and from what I understand, they are hard at work on a more - >> Hard at work finding something other than World of Warcraft that people should play. >> Yeah, exactly. >> I can't believe it. We've eaten up an entire half an hour. >> Wow, that went quick. >> So you can, that did go quick. So you can join us at some point in the future for another episode of Office Hours. I'm not sure who's up next week, I think it'll be somebody out in San Francisco with our buddy Brian Tong. And Rich, anything to plug before we go? >> If you want to go over to Craig, you can check out all the reviews that we have posted [inaudible]. >> And your big shootouts that you just did with all the 3D cards. >> Yeah, exactly. >> All right, super. For Rich Brown, I'm Dan Ackerman, thanks for joining us on Editor's Office Hours. ^M00:28:29 [ music ]