Ep. 140: The next big thing in car tech? There's an app for that.
>> Control you car with your iPhone.
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One car maker helps customers locate speed cameras.
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You want to know what's up with those annoying run flat tires.
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And we'll take a ride in a stale but glossy BMW.
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Hello folks, it is indeed Car Tech Live. This is CNET's Car Tech show, every Friday we do this. Wow, I think that worked, didn't it.
>> Good, ok. So, that's how we start the show now. It's a new thing. New thing every week, but eventually this will all become routine. Anyway, it's Friday, 16th of October edition, 2009. I'm Brian Cooley, joined by Wayne Cunningham, Antoine Goodwin is on vacation this week. And let's get into our news. We had a ton of email from you, not much of a news week for Car Tech, so this won't take long. But we got a lot of email to plow through. Coming out of New York State, you know it's a slow news week when this is our top story, but New York State wants to crack down on the way truckers are using GPS. Governor Patterson says too often they're using it to go on nonapproved, non truck routes just because the GPS says hey go this way, it'll be faster. And of course that's everything for truckers. But too often, they're having bridge strikes because they're going on routes where the overpass of the bridge is too low. In fact, when they had their press conference to announce this a couple days ago, they just got breaking news like on their Blackberries, another bridge strike. A lot of them are happening in West Chester County where a lot of rich folks live, so clearly that helps get laws passed. But it would be the first of its kind in the nation that would tell truckers you must use a GPS device that is specially tailored to not take you on nonapproved roads. So it would take you only on truck routes where you're not going to go over, over roads where the underpass is too low, where the bridge is low. Seems logical but the trucking industry is not crazy about it because they say, wait a minute, one more extra cost, specialty product we have to buy. These guys use a lot of telematics, truckers are incredibly early adopters of in car wireless Internet, WI FI in the cab to get connected to that in car Internet, or in cab Internet. They were the earliest guys on satellite radio, guys and gals, by far. They totally made satellite radio at the beginning. And of course, GPS has been part of their deal forever. They use a lot of proprietary stuff in the logistics industry. But a lot of these guys have their own GPS stuck on the windshield as well and that's what's prompting them to go hey, go here, it's a faster route. But it may not be truck approved. We'll keep an eye on that. And we hear a lot about technology and software, hardware, what have you, online services that will let you avoid speed cameras and speed traps. That's nothing new. But we've never heard of a car maker, a major world brand, getting behind that saying, yeah, we want to help our buyers of our cars either skirt or be aware of or you know thumb their nose at traffic devices like that, that are meant to keep them safe. It's kind of a weird area for a car maker to be, to say hey, we're going to help you know where those speed cameras are so you can what? Slow down just enough to avoid one, then speed up again and be a speeder and get away with this? It's, it's kind of an odd place for companies that are normally very legally sensitive. But this week, Pujo is working with ATX, a company which does the guts of a lot of the telematic systems out there to do a Pujo connect download service. This'll be in UK and France to allow customers to go to this site, download the latest Pujo sponsored list of traffic cameras and then punch that USB drive into the head unit, if they have a compatible car, and then load those into their nav system to have the absolute latest traffic camera locations. They'll be warned by the nav system you're coming up on one. And this is for systems that don't even necessarily have Internet connectivity. I mean very few cars do today. So this is a way to do it, is do it Sneaker Net via USB drive to the car. But the fact that a car maker is getting behind this is really kind of eye opening. And by the way, even though it's only offered for customers in UK and France, it will cover speed cameras all over Europe. I'm not sure why they don't offer it to every market, could be a legal thing going on there. But that's the first of its kind. We told you over the last couple of weeks about this major Toyota recall based on unintended acceleration because of a very simple, nontech factor. The pedal getting stuck in the floor mat. If you haven't seen our post on the CNET Car Tech blog, go check that out, if the story is new to you. It caused a massive recall of Toyota cars for really kind of an embarrassing reason. I mean, a floor mat? At least something electronic could have gone wrong or something. So Consumer Reports took this on. We have an idea on this also from the CNET Car Tech blog that shows some of the cars operate differently if you get in this situation. They of course wanted to tell their readers, here's what you can or should do if you get in this situation. They found that a lot of the German cars have what's called a smart throttle which means that even if the car is in an accelerator position, you're down on the gas, when you get on the brakes, the car releases the throttle somewhere in the engine bay, or if it's drive by a wire, it'll tell the computer stop accelerating. So that you can easily remove from a stuck throttle pedal if it's a mechanical issue, like a carpet keeping the pedal down. Some other vehicles though, like Toyota and Chevy vehicles, don't have that. You can actually have the throttle open, go full engine power if you want and of course you can apply the brakes at the same time but that doesn't always work. In fact, they found in some of their tests as brake fade began to come into to be a factor, they could only get the car down to about 10 miles an hour and that was about it when they stayed on the accelerator at around a 60 mile per hour position. So different car makers have a different sort of risk for unintended mechanical pedal failure. When something is jammed on the pedal, when something falls down there, you know this, this happens in life. The, the overall advice here for anybody though is remember where neutral is. Your car's not going to over rev. The computer will keep it from destroying itself. No car goes beyond red line anymore unless it was made, you know more than 10 years ago. Put the car in neutral and you're good. The power is off, get on the brakes, but people panic in these situations and they forget some of those basics. Now we told you, this was the big buzz topic of the week. There is a lot of things going on in iPhone apps for cars. Here's an iPhone app that controls your car from Viper, the folks who make a lot of those car alarm systems that are after market. And there's nothing really new about it except it happens on an iPhone. You know if it's iPhone it suddenly becomes news. So you can go get this Viper module for your car that allows you to do remote start and open the locks and all that kind of thing. That's been on the market for a while but you had to use a special key fob that came with it, which is kind of old tech. Now, they get all these headlines because they offer an iPhone app that lets you do the same control so you don't need a key fob. Why? Not really any good reason. It's just a sexy way to sell more products. The iPhone app is free of course because you've got to go buy a 3 to 500 dollar Viper technology rig, a kit you have to install in your car that gets wired into all the systems to allow it to do all these things including remote start. What's interesting here is remote start is not new. We've had that on key fobs for a while. A few cars have it, it's not that common. But this one, because it uses WIFI, 3G and Edge, the wireless Internet network, you can actually start your car from, if I'm not mistaken, any where in the world. Because it doesn't have the limitations of a wireless key fob, the car because it has the Viper gear in it is connected wirelessly to the Internet over 3G or Edge as is your iPhone or it's using WIFI to get to the Internet, either way. But there is no limit of the range of the key fob. It's not a useful feature. You don't really want to be able to start your car from 10, 15, 20, 3000 miles away, but I think you could do it. If anything I think it's just weird. And if you think that's a goofy idea, don't laugh at the idea of apps on Smart Phones that are car related. Pissa Research came out for iSupply, a company which covers automotive technology a lot, and this week they've said there is an absolute break out of automotive apps for Smart Phones. They're talking about how BMW has something called the Concept BMW application store which lets you go download apps, not just for your Smart Phone but for the car's head unit. Not available in the US yet and it's a concept idea. But it would allow you to put games, web radio applications, pod cast downloaders into your head unit of your vehicle. Of course, that requires a wireless Internet connection which is what BMW doesn't have yet in the US. They offer that. It's called the Connected Drive System in Europe. They have yet to partner with a telecom company here for a variety of reasons, some are legislative and legal and concerns about liability and some are just business. But that will be coming sooner than later. Nokia has some new technology where they're letting you do a cable now, which is really dorky, Bluetooth later to connect so your phone's functions, whatever is on your Smart Phone will appear on the head unit display of your vehicle. In the same look and feel as what's on the Smart Phone. So it echoes the actual interface to your head unit, allowing you to use those systems hopefully a little more safely because the head unit in the car is ideally not moving around, you don't have to go shuffle around and find it. It's a better, larger display. It's got a touch screen, things like that that might be a little safer than actually juggling your phone in your hand. Although a lot of the upcoming legislation that we expect to be passed probably won't care once we get to a really broad anti distraction piece of legislation that is very much in the offing. And also Parrot rolled out a new head unit called the FC6100 that uses A2DP streaming and Bluetooth and all that technology, but it also is based on android and JAVA. That's what's interesting about it. So it has all the usual hardware and firmware technologies and then even more like a Smart Phone or a PC, it has a common operating system with other devices. So in theory, you can get an android app for your Smart Phone and you could load it onto this Parrot head unit if it has the same hardware hooks to execute what it is designed to do. If it can reach the GPS chip and that sort of thing. Not all the dots are connected there, but its one of the early efforts to put a common operating system in the car. Of course car makers love that idea. They're just having a hard time deciding which operating system they want to use. Parrot's trying to say, well what about android and JAVA put together in a head unit and maybe spreading to the broader car after that. We tell you a lot about HD radio, a lot of car companies are offering it in some or at least many of their car models. Volvo still seems to be about the most aggressive on it. Trumpeting this week, not a real big deal but they are now offering HD radio across the line on their 2010 vehicles. I think only Mercedes is quite so ambitious right now, though it's not standard on every Mercedes by any stretch. And if you want to know where the next innovations in Synch are going to come from, we love Synch around here. Very likely from University of Michigan and University of Detroit Mercy. Ford is doing a partnership in the form of a contest of sorts where they're going to have university students come in, ask them to evaluate the in car tech landscape, identify trends outside the car that should be in the car from social networking to media playback, whatever it may be. And then have them work on implementing it in the car. So this is done a lot where students at universities take part in contests to design future cars. But seldom is one so focused on just in car tech as this. And of course, you know what Ford is doing here, they know that the smartest minds out there and what is cool with connected, wireless, social, mobile and media are not sitting in their building. They're not in Dearborn, they're not 30 year Ford veterans. They're students at nearby universities who are way more connected in this. Their entire lives are this style of media communication and living. And they're saying let's go to them and get the ideas for what should be in the car. Smart idea in general. Of course, doesn't stop any other car company from doing the same thing, so let's hope they all get that idea. Because car companies realize that they move too slowly on too many areas of tech. This is one way and Ford isn't the only company that can get this idea, but you can definitely change the speed of that innovation and stay on top of what's happening outside the car. Let's see what's going on new in the CNET Car Tech garage.
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Ok, new reviews. The BMW 650i is up. That's our feature car right now at Cars.CNET.com in a really nice shade of blue. We'll be taking that on the road with Wayne and Antoine here in moments and then talking about the car afterwards. It's a mixed bag, but we still love it. 370z Roadster, speaking of a purposeful car we love. It just knows what it's supposed to do and it gets it done really well. We dug the Roadster of the new 370z. It's out now on the market as of just a few weeks ago. Remember for a while you had the new 370z coupe and you had to go buy the old 350z if you wanted a roadster. They were both in the showrooms for a little while there. But now it's new 370z across the board in Nissan showrooms. Coming up, we have a couple of the more popular compact SUV cross overs. We have the Acura MDX in house right now and the Lexus RX350. So those reviews are pending, videos coming on those as well. Find them all at Cars.CNET.com and to go right to the videos, you can also just go to CNETTV.com if you just want to soak up lots of video. Ok, we had a ton of email from you guys this week. Keep them coming. We love this stuff. We have absolutely the smartest audience out there in, in cars and pod casting I'm convinced. So Wayne and I are going to plow through a whole bunch of these now. First one comes in from Lowe who is a frequent Car Tech emailer and pod cast listener. But he says, hey guys, what's with BMW, maker of the ultimate driving machine, doing with a mandate to use run flat tires? I have a 3 series with a stick and Bridge Stones. At about 20000 miles the tires are making so much noise it sounded like I was driving on severely under inflated tires. There was a groan every time I came to a stop. At speed they were simply noisy. I eventually had to have all four replaced and I was given no option to put standard tires on there because BMW says the car's suspension was designed for run flats. Which is true, they do tend to tweak suspensions for those particular tires. And that the car could not be fitted with standard tires. Remember often the tire shop is going to say we don't want to take the risk. The OEM says this, we're going to put that on there. Subsequently I was reading a survey that Michelin did in both Europe and the US that said something like only 3% of European drivers want run flats and as little as 1% in the US care about them. Reasons cited were high price, short life, bad performance, high weight and reduced fuel efficiency. Like a really great tire, right? So here's my question. BMW has an enthusiast based, why do they and some other manufacturers insist on going down this run flat path? Do you know anything about the plans for these kinds of tires? Well, one thing that was the biggest water shed in this was Honda recently bailed out on Michelin Pax run flat. They used to put them on the, on the Odyssey and one other vehicle and they had such bad feedback on them because they do reduce MPG, they are heavier, they have higher rolling resistance and they're 2 to 500 dollars a pop, which is a lot more than a typical tire in that size and shape for a, like an Odyssey. It doesn't use expensive tires. So Honda was a real flashing bailer on the Michigan Pax, Michelin Pax tire, you've got a BMW Wayne. You don't have run flats on there, though.
>> Wayne: No, mine's a 1999, so yeah it's you know a little early.
>> Brian: A little before the Pax, yeah.
>> Wayne: Yeah, it is a small car though which is kind of why they're using the run flats is because you don't have to put a spare tire anywhere in that thing.
>> Brian: Right, that's the idea.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: But these things are really pricey and there's just not enough cars using them and as a result the price isn't down because they're not selling enough of these tires.
>> Wayne: Right. Although with BMW I kind of think, you know BMW is sort of an engineering company and they will go with something that they think is right for the longest time. Look at I Drive for example.
>> Brian: Right.
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For the longest time.
>> Wayne: It took 7, 8 years of people just, Automotive Journal just complaining and complaining.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: And finally they've gone away from that old system. I kind of think it's going to be the same with the run flats.
>> Brian: It may take a while yeah because they're still putting them on and I don't, didn't have time to look at which cars they're putting them on still, but I know they're still in to the idea. And of course they're a European car maker, Michelin is a European based company. There might be a little bit of simpatico there because they have long roots, way back. But yeah, in general I'd say if you're looking at a car and it's got run flat tires, think twice because you may be stuck having to use those unless you can convince a tire shop that you want to go to that no, I want to get away from what it says in the factory manual and in the specs that they have at their tire shop that say you must fit run flats on this car. You're kind of getting off warranty there and it's just in a weird area. And these run flats are generally, they're not ready for prime time yet. Let's talk about iPod and Bluetooth. This one comes in from Darrin in Winnipeg. It says, love the Car Tech pod cast, got a question. I purchased a new iPod Touch, the third generation, so the new one that has voice command. I have an 08 Sentra SER that has an aux jack which I use for listening to the iPod, but I would like to still use the voice command while it's connected with the aux jack to control the device. But the voice commands on the iPod Touch go over the headset, which has a microphone about yeah on the cable and that's how you talk to the iPod touch and tell it, you know search this artist or whatever. So since he's using that jack to get audio out to the head unit, his headset that has the mike is disconnected, so there's no way to talk to the iPod Touch to use voice command and aux out. I don't think we have any idea of any kits that will work around that. Not that I could find.
>> Wayne: Yeah, I haven't heard of anything and unfortunately Antoine is not here this week because he has an iPod Touch and would probably.
>> Brian: Oh he does? Ok, so he would know exactly the situation.
>> Wayne: Right, he could weigh in on this issue a little, probably a little more informatively than, than we can. I, I haven't use the voice command on iPod Touch and frankly I didn't know it had it.
>> Brian: It was just out with the new, yeah the new second generation one.
>> Wayne: I see, yeah.
>> Brian: It came out with the new 3GS iPhone, so it's in there, but it's on that mike that's on the headset, just like you use the mike for the iPhone the same way. I think one thing you might want to do here is you have the newest Touch, it has the A2DP Bluetooth streaming. No, because if you use the A2DP Bluetooth, I looked into this, it's going to disable I'm pretty sure, 99% sure it's going to disable audio coming out of the headset jack. Because the device is designed not to use power to go to both of those. And it doesn't make any sense. Why would you have A2DP streaming and have a headset plugged in? I'm sure that's the way Apple thought about it. Try it though, see if when you turn on A2DP stereo Bluetooth if you can still get audio out of the headset. If you can, bingo. Leave your headset plugged in, use it just for the mike and then buy an A2DP stereo Bluetooth adapter for your car stereo in your Sentra. I don't believe the factory radio has that. And then you could get both connections. It's clugy though. You got an adapter here and a headset that you're not listening to, but you're just talking to here.
>> Wayne: How about this? You could also hack it. Get an extra headset with the microphone and all that and strip out the headset part, the.
>> Brian: The ear buds.
>> Wayne: The ear buds, turn that into an aux jack. And you've still got your head, your microphone.
>> Brian: Yeah. If you're ok with a soldering iron.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: You could yeah, cut off the ear buds, they're really fine wires but you can solder to them.
>> Wayne: Get an eighth inch jack.
>> Brian: Solder on a mini plug.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: And then plug that in. You still got your mike working unless the iPod detects something which is might, but you know it might still work. That's a good idea. It's really fine wire. So get a really sharp tip on a soldering iron and if you're new to soldering, forget this, this isn't going to work for you. This is like an advanced soldering project just because it's so fine. Ronny in Liverpool, we've heard from him before. He's one of our faithful listeners and emailers, says hey guys, I'm currently leasing an 07 BMW X3. Looking forward to my next vehicle in the spring. He says one of the features we love up here in the northeast is along with all wheel drive, a heated steering wheel. And I'm sure heated seats. It's an east coast thing he says, don't try and figure it out. Ok. Been looking at a lot of vehicles, having a hard time getting used to the idea that I might have to give up my heated steering wheel to get a more tech laden cross over SUV. He says his X3 is woefully lacking in tech and the rumored next generation X3 is still just that, a rumor. Should I be watching for the next gen X3? I've been looking at a 328Xi, the all wheel drive 3 series. It felt a little cramped. What other vehicles are out there with a heated steering wheel that don't cost a bundle? First of all, do we know anything about a next gen X3 or is it still out there a ways?
>> Wayne: Still out there, haven't, haven't heard about an update to that car yet.
>> Brian: They just did a mild refresh on it in the last model year I think.
>> Wayne: Yeah, but insignificant. I mean they haven't added their new power train technology, so they've been concentrating on the X1 and the, it seems like the X1 is sort of the next in the pipeline.
>> Brian: Yeah. So nothing new on getting an X3 with better technology, the new I Drive, that kind of thing, because they're still on the old I Drive I'm pretty sure.
>> Wayne: Oh yeah.
>> Brian: On that X3. So that's not going to work out for you. I did a little snooping around here. About the only other car in that class I could find that has a heated steering wheel is a Cadillac SRX but I think you have to get the V8 to get that. I don't believe the V6 with that great direct injection motor which is a really cool car in a lot of tech ways, including the engine. But I don't know of a whole lot of, I don't think an Audi Q5 has a heated wheel.
>> Wayne: I would, you know I was thinking about that. I would think, I've never seen this on Japanese cars, but I was thinking European cars, German cars.
>> Brian: They tend to do it more.
>> Wayne: More likely to have it because colder in Germany.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: I was also thinking American car companies being that, you know they were all based in Michigan forever.
>> Brian: Right. They know about crappy winters.
>> Wayne: Right. That you know some of the Ford, like a Ford Explorer maybe? But then again I actually I think the best way to like research this is to, most car websites have a build feature, so you select your car, you, you click the build feature and then you start, you can see all the available options and accessories.
>> Brian: And look under standard features when you're doing that because that's where they list all the standard stuff in there. They're exhaustive, right down to you know two cup holders. They call that a feature. And also look for typically, that is part of a cold weather package. That's, because they don't put this stock on probably any car that I know of. Maybe this SRX, but typically that's a cold weather thing. There's not a whole lot of demand for it. It's not like heated seats. People are in love with that now, but the heated wheel is still kind of fringe. So look for a cold weather package that's usually, I've never seen this as an ala carte option where you just tick off one thing and it's like heated wheel all by itself. 250 dollars or something. So look for a package. Here's one that comes in about what's coming up next in our reviews. I'm really interested in an Audi A3TDI. Was wondering if you guys will be doing a review of it any time soon? Sweet and simple. A3, we've done an A3 but not a TDI.
>> Wayne: Yeah, we haven't seen the TDI in yet and it's actually not in our current press plates inventory. So I just did a request for new cars. I requested the Audi S4 and the Audi A5 convertible. Hopefully we'll get those in now, but they didn't have the A3TDI available in the San Francisco Bay area yet.
>> Brian: Ok.
>> Wayne: Hopefully and at this point we probably wouldn't see it until early next year.
>> Brian: Yeah, because we're getting down to the last gulp or so but they don't have it now, they're probably not going to get it until we get around the corner to 2010.
>> Wayne: Right.
>> Brian: So unfortunately no, no A3TDI but we do have a review of the A3s probably going back a couple years now with the DSG, it was one of their first dual clutch gear boxes.
>> Wayne: Oh yeah, excellent car.
>> Brian: Great car.
>> Wayne: We also have the Jetta TDI review which I think, I believe that's the same power train.
>> Brian: Yeah, should be the same power train, so if you check that out for at least our, our feeling about the actual engine and the way that worked together. But it's not quite the same of course, so you'll know as soon as we do when we're going to get that car in. But it may be awhile. This one comes in from Alan in New York. Hey guys, not sure if you guys know the answer to my question, but I have a 94 Accord LX with an aftermarket Pioneer radio CD player. It has an external antenna near the truck of the car that goes up and down when you turn the radio on. I have an iPhone and I just purchased an iTrip which is the FM transmitter to get the audio onto the car stereo because the car stereo doesn't have an aux jack. It goes back to 99 when you put the car stereo in. Being in New York City, the available FM frequencies for me to use are very minimal. Yeah, New York is a really crowded radio signal market. I've found that a few work pretty well but the iPhone has to be literally pressed up against the radio faceplate to get a clean signal. Is there some kind of internal antenna or conductor I can place near my radio which will allow the iTrip signal to be enhanced or picked up better for the radio to play it? I'm going to place a metal clothing hanger in the little slot tomorrow. What slot?
>> Wayne: The CD slot? Don't do that.
>> Brian: To see if it works, but if not, would you guys have any other suggestions? Well yes, number one, leave the hanger in the closet. Number two, here's what's going on is yes, you have a lot of signals competing and New York, LA are really bad places to do this. See my video which we are going to put a link to in the show notes, that is going to give you a quick tutorial on FM transmitters versus FM modulators. You need a modulator. The transmitter broadcasts over the air to your car's antenna which means along the way from the transmitter to the antenna it's competing with every professional broadcast signal on radio in the market. Not good. The modulator hard wires in line between your antenna and your car stereo and when you throw a switch, it creates a closed circuit transmission from your portable into the FM wire, the FM antenna cable of your car stereo. Vastly cleaner, a little bit of installation effort. If you're not up to that, it's less than an hour for a car stereo store to do it and they shouldn't charge you, not even a hundred dollars. And the devices are cheap, 50 to 70 bucks for a good one. That's in the video. I show you how to do it if you want to take it on yourself. And I show you a couple good models. There's a really nice one from Alpine that will put some song information on the display if you have RDS or a really inexpensive one from Audiovox that I've used in a lot of cars, 50 bucks and sounds great. So that's what you need. The transmitter is not going to work, neither is the clothes hanger.
>> Wayne: These days actually, the new headset are getting pretty inexpensive. And you can, you can get a new head unit with iPod capability, an actual iPod plug in.
>> Brian: Oh yeah.
>> Wayne: For around 200 bucks I believe Sony has some that go that cheap.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: And you know that's just a much better solution all around.
>> Brian: Right.
>> Wayne: Because then you get your iPod controls on the stereo faceplate.
>> Brian: Yeah. And you're going to get a hard wired connection that is even better than FM because you know I'm talking about FM, well hard wire but it's still FM. It has to be converted. And FM doesn't sound as good as what your iPod's putting out. It's just not that good. It's no where near CD quality and of course your iPod can put out great quality. So yeah, good idea. Go look for, in fact if you shop at Grespy, it might be even below 200 bucks for an iPod connector, but make sure.
>> Wayne: Becoming pretty common.
>> Brian: Yeah, I mean you know the iPod has rewritten everyone's rule book. Make sure it's a stereo that has got an iPod connector and the cable you may need in the box when you buy it. Some of them are iPod capable and you've got to buy another module for 50 to 100 bucks. Don't let that happen. Make sure it's all in there, that it's built into the radio, the car stereo and it even includes the cable. They're doing a lot of that now and not making you buy a cable anymore that's a separate expensive option. Hey guys, looking to purchase a new family hauler in about a year. Currently Ford Flex is top choice of mine but my wife hates the looks. Imagine that. Although the Ford Synch system is tempting, I think a good lane departure correction system is more important because I'm prone to veering.
[ Laughter ]
I'm glad he admits that.
[ Laughter ]
Right? I'm prone to veering.
>> Wayne: Not many people would, would come up and say that.
>> Brian: I wouldn't.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: I would never do that.
>> Wayne: I'm the best driver in the world.
>> Brian: Oh, absolutely. I never veer, no. So what is your favorite lane departure correction system and do you foresee any significant changes in this technology in the next production year or so? And he's pointing out lane departure correction, not just warning. Warning lets you know with a beep or something or a vibration that you're drifting but it won't fix it. And then the fewer cars will actually steer you back into the place. And we've driven a few cars that have this.
>> Wayne: Yeah, Infinity Nissan, that's the most effective that I've seen so far.
>> Brian: Right. And theirs uses I think uses Yaw Braking. It kind of breaks the far right rear wheel.
>> Wayne: Yeah, well it brakes the two on the opposite side.
>> Brian: Ok, both on the opposite.
>> Wayne: Yeah, which gives just a little bit, not a lot, not enough to like throw you out of control.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: Just enough to kind of give your call a little nudge back into its lane. And it, it's effective actually.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: It works and yeah, and it's not, it's not as death defying as it sounds.
>> Brian: Yeah, it sounds creepy but it's actually because it uses opposite side braking to just kind of drag the car over or yaw the car, it's really quite subtle. But like Wayne says, it works really well.
>> Wayne: Who does?
>> Brian: Someone's actually using the electronic power steering rack and steering that back. I don't know if it's a car we've had in or one that we've just been talking about.
>> Wayne: I can't remember if that's maybe a Lexus thing because Lexus and Toyota has been using the electric power steering controls.
>> Brian: Yeah, they've been big on that.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: Let me see here, I'll just do a quick Google. They call those systems EPAS, electronic power assisted system if you want to Google this. So I'm just going to look for EPAS lane departure, always good to give you folks a Google lesson correction. Let's see if it comes up on something we can give you a couple other cars here. Looks as though it is going to be showing up nothing. No I'm not getting a good brand here.
>> Wayne: Fords actually have been going to electric power steering as well, but I don't recall hearing them talk about a lane assistance or lane.
>> Brian: Correction.
>> Wayne: Nudge you back in the lane.
>> Brian: Right.
>> Wayne: And doing it with the steering wheel is also I think a little bit more problematic than doing it with the braking. I think the Nissan Infinity system is and I'm not sure if this is on Nissans actually. I know it's on Infinities.
>> Brian: Infinity for sure, yeah.
>> Wayne: Yeah and but that, that has proven just in my driving work that you know it's, it's reliable. It's not an intrusive.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: And you can defeat it if you try to, if you make a definitive lane change, if you really turn that wheel and go across the lane.
>> Brian: Right and you can turn it off too I'm pretty sure.
>> Wayne: Yeah, oh yeah.
>> Brian: Oh, the new Prius has lane departure correction. I believe that's electric power steering based.
>> Wayne: Right, that is going to work with the steering wheel.
>> Brian: So there's one, there's two ways that the car makers do it. There's a couple ideas of cars that have it although the Prius isn't in the category you're looking for. But there's some idea of what you're looking at when you're analyzing these systems. But that'll give you on the right, get you on the right track to find the car that does what you want. This one comes in from Kevin who says hey guys, thanks for helping me decide on buying the Mustang. I seem to recall his email from a few weeks ago. Ok, you're welcome. My question is also about the Ford Flex. I really like the styling and the quality on the inside, but is it a good car just to have in New York City? And I didn't have a chance to test drive it so how does it handle and perform? So general impressions on the Ford Flex.
>> Wayne: Yeah, I've driven a couple of those. I've driven, well the last one was an all wheel drive Flex with Eco Boost.
>> Brian: Oh yeah.
>> Wayne: And all wheel drive of course is what you're going to want in New York City or New York.
>> Brian: Yeah, getting out of town you'll find some snow.
>> Wayne: Right and it's a, it's a system that's biased toward the front wheel drive but it'll kick toward back to the rear wheels when needed. And it's, you know it's a big car. It's because it's lower than an SUV so it doesn't rock as much.
>> Brian: Yeah and it's wide stance.
>> Wayne: Yeah. But then again it's also an SUV like car so you're not going to be throwing it around the corners or anything.
>> Brian: No. We, we gave it an excellent rating, give it a 9 for comfort, 7 for performance, 8 for design for an overall 8 point 1, that's pretty good.
>> Wayne: Yeah, well that's got the Ford technology, the cab tech in it too which is really just the top of the, you know stack right now.
>> Brian: Yeah. And great interior. Really nicely done. If you get a high trim Flex.
>> Wayne: Yeah, yeah Ford has been doing good stuff with their interiors and you know the looks of that car, I like the looks. They're pretty unique.
>> Brian: I do too, but even though I know it's an acquired taste.
>> Wayne: Yeah it's something, but it's going to be polarizing. Some people are going to hate it, some people are going to like it. You drive up to you know your friend's house with that car, they may laugh at you.
>> Brian: Yeah and you just keep going. Just keep going. No, I actually didn't intend to come here. I, that party is next week, I forgot, right. I'm going to go back, get my other car. Yeah we also said on the down side, gas mileage isn't great. The driving experience a little bland like Wayne was saying. It's not a, it's not a sporty car. But you know roomy and really well done inside and that Ford technology, if you option it up appropriately, make sure you get loaded up you know CNET style, it makes it a great car for you know, for driving and traveling and road trips and that sort of thing but not in a sporting way. It's in a comfort, spacious, family way. It's a great family vehicle. If you're a single guy or it's just you and you know, you're just part of a couple, this might be a little fuddy duddy for you.
>> Wayne: Yeah, for a single guy, you'll still be single when you get this.
>> Brian: Right.
[ Laughter ]
So make sure you stay single for a long time. But yeah, I remember when we were doing the video on that car, you know we do, we do a lot of the shooting out in this, this cool old kind of antiquey alley we have. You've seen it in our videos, there's brick all over and all that. But people walk by a lot and that's one of those cars people actually stop and talk about and it wasn't all good.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: They'd say wow, what is that thing? That is ugly. It's like well, alright, but it's not really what we're here to talk about. Ok, speaking of ugly, these can go ugly pretty badly. This is from Jessie. You guys have any recommendations on certified preowned mini vans? Now he's in Alabama, says we got tons of them coming off rental fleets. I got a new edition to the family, this won't be a daily driver. He's looking for a 3 and 5 year old or greater than 5 year old recommendations. Well in general, Wayne what do you think? What have you heard that's really good about a mini van you know preowned which would mean it's a reliable one.
>> Wayne: Yeah I've had a few friends that have gotten families recently and had kids and have decided, did a lot of research actually into the whole mini van space because they were, you know at that point they were like we need something practical and the mini van is really it. And they settled on the Honda Odyssey.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: You know, well built car, and it had after a lot of research too it just appeared that it was the kind of car that would have a hold up, had the right kind of amenities for them to be able to you know haul their, their new families around.
>> Brian: Yeah, Odyssey has long been a favorite. And in, you know and for the things that we don't get too excited about around here, you know not for its tech, although its ok and not for if you option it up heavily and not for its performance or anything, but for good driving manners and you know of course the Honda quality is you know pretty much been undisputed in their entire company's life in America. They've had, they haven't had any of those, those errors that most other car companies have had that even Toyota is entering right now where they quality is down. I mean for a while Mercedes had an air pocket in quality a few years ago where Hyundai was ahead of them and has stayed very high and Toyota is about, you know in a bad time right now, but Honda has always been just always known as a really well built car. Yes they have exceptions and recalls but really well built. So you kind of can't go wrong there. One place you might want to check which is an interesting barometer is go to leasetrader.com. And this is a site that is involved in lease assumptions and valuing cars that are coming off lease. That's an interesting way to find out if a car is really a good car because it'll have high residuals. So dig around in there a little bit. It's kind of like a car buying site, but it's all about leases that are turning over. It's a weird, an interesting look at the automotive resale business that you're about to enter because when you buy a CPO it's usually a lease return that's coming off a 2 year or 3 year lease back to the dealer and now they're going to send it back out to you, certified pre owned. So lease trader is an interesting site to look at if you want to see what cars are holding their value really well and I believe you can find user and owner commentary in there as well to find out what's working well. Let's check out this one here, going a different direction. Eddie, told you I had a lot of email today. Eddie says hey guys, love the show, I'm in Toronto, looking at four luxury cars, Audi A4, so small luxury cars, Audi A4, Mercedes C class, IS250, and he didn't mention the fourth. Out of those three, out of those three of those four cars, I really like the A4 because the 2 liter turbo gas engine which we've driven several times here, but it's great on highway fuel economy. I don't want to get the BMW because five people on my street already have, ok so the fourth car was a BMW, a 3 series I guess. He doesn't want to get that because everyone on his street already has that and he wants to have a change, fine. I want to know if you have any other suggestions on these cars or comments on them. So C class, A4, IS250, we like them all.
>> Wayne: Well sort of.
>> Brian: None of those slouches.
>> Wayne: Yeah, I mean I would say the IS250 is a little slow.
>> Brian: Oh, the 250, yeah, that's the gutless one.
>> Wayne: Yeah, that engine kind of drags and.
>> Brian: Yeah, which we inadvertently as you pointed out said had a 4 cylinder, I inadvertently said it had a 4 cylinder, yes it's a D tuned V6 correction made. The 350 though we like the power on that.
>> Wayne: Yeah, oh yeah. That's, that's good although this is also in, what, what city was this?
>> Brian: He's in Toronto, so he's in some rugged weather.
>> Wayne: There's going to be yeah some weather so.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: All wheel drive is a good thing to have and that's the Audi Quattro.
>> Brian: Oh, Quattro is the best, yeah.
>> Wayne: Yeah, I'd add Quattro to the 2 point 0 T Audi A4.
>> Brian: That's a killer car.
>> Wayne: Yeah, you've got a great car, especially with the new Quattro system they have. It's, it's a big improvement over the previous generation because they're throwing torque back and forth between the rear wheels now, too, which they didn't do before.
>> Brian: Interesting.
>> Wayne: Yeah, that gives you better performance qualities and also will help out in the slippery stuff.
>> Brian: Yeah, so all season you're going to enjoy that. Yeah Quattro is undisputed the best, most sophisticated, I mean Honda Acura will argue, but Quattro has been out there a long time. I like the C class just as a sentimental favorite, not available in all wheel drive I don't think.
>> Wayne: You know I'm not sure about that but I do like the C class too. The new C class, the new C300 is a really good car, economical with that 3 liter 6 cylinder engine.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: And they also have the C350, you know a bit heftier engine, but I don't think it's a big difference between the two. And I would actually.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: I had a great time driving the C300 around.
>> Brian: Yeah, I like that car a lot.
>> Wayne: Yeah. It stay, stays pretty flat in the corners if you're into that kind of thing. I, again I don't know if you can get it with the formatic system though.
>> Brian: Yeah, I'm not sure. A C, let me just see here.
>> Wayne: Might be worth looking up because Mercedes Benz new all wheel drive system or their formatic system, that's what they called it forever, but they've been doing some work on that too and they've, last time they introduced cars with that formatic system, I guess it was the last Detroit Auto Show, they were talking about it being so light weight that it only adds maybe 100 pounds to the car.
>> Brian: Oh yeah, which normally those systems add a lot, they add hundreds, ok, it is available, C300 is available as a formatic, at least as a 2009, I'm sure carrying over to 2010. MSRP on that car, this is base for a 300 with formatic is about 36500. So if that's in your price range. And again, if you option it up well with the new latest version of the Comand head unit which spelled with one M, it's their trade name, that's a real good system. So yeah, there's a couple good options there. The Audi and the Mercedes really good, the IS if the 250 is the one in your budget.
>> Wayne: Yeah, they do an all wheel drive of that one too but yeah, it's just that engine just doesn't seem to really pull as well.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: The other ones.
>> Brian: It was a huge difference in the performance between the IS250 and 350, like 5 point something to 8 point 4 seconds, 0 to 60, I mean seconds difference. That's pretty rare in this day and age. This one comes in from Matthew, quick one, hey guys, any estimate on the price on the Audi Etron Concept? I would love a car that looks like an R8, I'm guessing 50 to 60 grand.
[ Laughter ]
I'm guessing, guess again. Yeah, no. We don't have any idea. That's the Audi concept that we saw at Frankfurt. It looks like an R8, it's not exactly an R8 but it's, it's a concept car. Electric power, four motors, biased out to two axels, lithium batteries back where the motor would be on an R8, you know. Really cool concept electric super car. It won't be 50 or 60 grand, we can guaran damn tee you that. It's going up against the Tesla, really shooting above a Tesla Roadster. So they have, they have permission to charge 125, 150 for a car like that in my mind. I mean, sexy looking thing.
>> Wayne: They said it is going into production which when they showed.
>> Brian: In like two years, though.
>> Wayne: Yeah, it's definitely going to be a while.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: Yet and just the lithium ion battery pack in that allow is going to cost a big bundle of money.
>> Brian: Yeah, a pretty penny because it's a high performance car, 150 plus mile range.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: So that's a big battery pack to deliver high performance that much range, so yeah, it's going to be an expensive car, not I can't imagine anywhere near 60 grand and it's a couple years away so that's why we have no idea what the price will be. But.
>> Wayne: And three more motor than the Tesla too.
>> Brian: Right, a lot of additional, think about that. A lot of additional cost, yeah. So yeah, you can give up on that for a while being an affordable car. Last email before we go on the road. Ok, here we go, this one comes from Nick in Charleton, Charlton, Massachusetts? Want to give you guys a quick correction. Brian said the Camaro and Challenger were boutique cars, this was last week in the show, but for the fourth straight month the Camaro has actually outsold the Mustang. I didn't know that. It's mostly the new factor in my opinion but time will tell. I still don't understand why you guys on the Challenger so much, but I'm 22 and I figure it's supposed to appeal to my father more than myself. I was driving in a Nissan Merino the other day when I passed a Challenger. I see them all the time but that car is strikingly huge. I think Dodge took the more car for your dollar thing a bit too literally. And he's right. Camaro has been outselling Mustang and Challenger, I had no idea. I have a feeling part of that is rental fleets because I see them all over rental lots at every airport I go to just FYI, I don't see Challengers there almost ever, Mustang have been there for a while, but.
>> Wayne: I think he's right the new factor. I mean it is a striking looking car.
>> Brian: Looks good, looks good, yeah.
>> Wayne: And at 22000 maybe option it up maybe about 25000.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: Just about anybody could buy one, yeah.
>> Brian: Great value, yeah. It's a great value because that base V6 we love, the direct injection V6 is a great motor, so I could see why it's selling well. So yes, point taken, thank you for the correction and the eye open on that. Why do we love the Challenger so much? We just did, it was.
>> Wayne: I, you know I think it's a Dukes of Hazard sort of.
[ Laughter ]
Goes back to that.
>> Brian: And our car was orange too, yeah.
>> Wayne: Yeah exactly.
>> Brian: We just needed a number on the, on the side.
>> Wayne: Yeah, weld the doors shut, dive into the window, you know, the side window.
>> Brian: Wax the hood. Get it really slippery. Ok folks, time to go on the road as we do every week. And this week we're on the road a car that we like but would love if it was a little fresher in terms of tech. Let's get on the road here with Wayne and Antoine as we go for a short spin and then come back to talk about the BMW 650i convertible.
[ Background noise ]
>> It gets up to 60 pretty fast with a little bump there.
>> A really good sound coming out of that V8, I just love the sound of a V8 at full throttle.
>> Now this is their, their SMG or is it their just standard automatic transmission?
>> It's a standard 6 speed automatic and in some ways I think this power train is a little bit, you know five years ago.
>> How so?
>> Well it is, you know it still their double VANO system which is pretty impressive technology. But the engine is just a naturally aspirated 4.8 liter V8. And they've gone to twin turbo technology in a lot of their cars now. In fact the new 7 series, the 750 has a twin turbo engine and that's still a 50 designation and this is a 50 designation too. So I think the 6 series is lagging behind the other models.
>> They should make a 650Li, like a long wheel based, BMW convertible. This would be the perfect parade car. I mean it's got like a nice look from the front.
>> Oh right, you could put your feet down in the back seat and sit and, or sit on the, the back.
>> Yeah, it's cool.
>> One problem is actually this car is too ugly for that.
>> Particularly from the rear. Like I mean people would see you coming and they'd be like yeah and then as soon as you past, they'd go oh. Weird kind of concave like rear end and like high tail is just a lot going on back there. It's just very awkwardly designed.
>> Yeah, that weird growth on the, the trunk lid. I don't know. I mean how many big, powerful convertible sports cars can you, can you think of?
>> I can think of a couple of above this, I can think of a couple below this as far as where they fit in the grand scheme of things. But I feel like personally a 4 seater convertible is a waste of time anyway. So I mean just don't be lukewarm about it, just go ahead and have that midlife crisis and by the convertible.
>> With the two seats, the roadster, right?
>> Yeah exactly.
>> Yeah, the rear seats back here are cramped and tight and not really suitable for human habitation.
>> Brian: No, they were very small. Now, the technology in that car was one of the things that has changed since we drove the 09. I Drive 2, right? The new I Drive.
>> Wayne: Yeah, this has the updated I Drive.
>> Brian: Yeah and that was, that and, there's one other change from 09. It was the I Drive and HD radio I think.
>> Wayne: Yeah they might have, yeah I think this had HD radio as well.
>> Brian: It did.
>> Wayne: Power train is the same, looks are the same, that's every year I'm looking, I want better looks.
>> Brian: Every year we go around the back as soon as it arrives have they fixed that rear end? No.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: Damn it, Chris Bengal still haunts BMW even though he's gone. Yeah, really.
>> Wayne: Outside is kind of boring too really. And the front it kind of just a BMW.
>> Brian: Yeah, I'm ok with the front. The side, it just looks tubby.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: And I think it's a sexy car. I mean it's a car that gets you attention no matter what. This is the opposite of the Ford Flex, so whoever had the email about the Ford Flex, if you don't want to stay single if you are now, get this car. That will change your life the other direction. So Ford Flex, 650i convertible, complete opposites on the automotive pole of attractiveness.
>> Wayne: Now what is flossy mean when you're describing?
>> Brian: A little too urban. Flossy is like flashy. Yes.
>> Wayne: Ok, ok.
>> Brian: Yeah, that's like flashy filtered through Connie West's mind.
>> Wayne: I can still think of cars that are flashier in a better way that this. Some of the, big Mercedes convertibles for example.
>> Brian: Well yeah, I mean like the, what is it? The CL, what is their big convertible? I can never keep track of their damn model designation.
>> Wayne: CLDGHIJK.
>> Brian: Yeah, god I can't wait until they start doing new naming convention.
>> Wayne: How about this? There is a Mazerati Grand Cabero coming out.
>> Brian: Oh yeah.
>> Wayne: There you go, that's a much, I'd much prefer to have that over the 650.
>> Brian: The 650 is a little bit, it's just looks a little pudgy to me overall. But, like you guys pointed out, it's not a, this isn't a sports car. It's a sporting grand touring.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: Kind of a car.
>> Wayne: Because it's too big really to really get crazy with.
>> Brian: Yeah, it's a big heavy car.
>> Wayne: Yeah unless you had a track actually. I think you could do amazing things in it on a track, but on public roads, this car is just too big and powerful to actually get to 60 or 70% of that, you know.
>> Brian: Which is an odd thing to say, but it's true is that some of these cars are long legged, open road cars. They're very powerful, they have great performance equipment. You know this is, this is a car with advanced everything at this price range, any car would be. But that doesn't mean that it's the kind of little tossable canyon carver, just because it's got lots of power and really big brakes and sophisticated suspension and blah, blah, blah doesn't make it a canyon carver. It's a heavy car. And it's tuned at least the way the suspension is on this non M car to be kind of comfortable.
>> Wayne: Yeah and you really can't take it around a nice, tight, 20 mile per hour hairpin with any kind of speed. Although you mentioned in your.
>> Brian: Which you think it should, on paper it looks like it would, but it doesn't feel good doing that.
>> Wayne: No, yeah, it's just too big and long and powerful for that. Now, now you mentioned in your video, you weren't, you didn't like how it drove.
>> Brian: No, the throttle response made me crazy. When it was in regular mode, it was like we're talking about. Not leisurely but it was say we say insulated power response. You'd step on it and it would like crack your neck the way a Genesis Coupe would.
>> Wayne: Absolutely not, yeah.
>> Brian: You know? But then I put it in sport mode which is that button there on the console which makes everything just kind of rev high and respond faster and I thought it was really you know kind of jerky. It would, the compression braking was too much, the acceleration was snapping your head back the other way. I couldn't drive it around town or suburban areas without feeling like I was [making noise], you know that kind of thing.
>> Wayne: Yeah, yeah.
>> Brian: You were ok with that.
>> Wayne: Obviously you know the response is nice just to be able to slam up to the next traffic light and stop.
>> Brian: Which is about the sporting you'll do in this car.
>> Wayne: Right.
>> Brian: I beat him to the next light. Now where's the golf course? Yeah, it's, it's an odd, like you say it doesn't have the latest engine technology, the twin turbo V8. Which the 7 series.
>> Wayne: Yeah. Yes, so it's lagging behind in that. I just don't really know what I would do with a car like this.
>> Brian: It's, to me it's very practical because it does have, you know it's not like it's a little tiny car where there's no room for luggage, but it's actually very impractical. It's a second car to me.
>> Wayne: Oh yeah. Because those back seats you can kind of use them.
>> Brian: They're silly.
>> Wayne: But, yeah.
>> Brian: Yeah, they're grocery seats. And you know convertibles although today's convertibles don't leak or anything like that, it's still, you know you're paying a lot of a top that in many parts of the country you won't put down a lot of times, so it's a car you're not, just not going to want to drive six months out of the year perhaps or four or five months at least.
>> Wayne: It was also kind of noisy too. That top didn't really insulate from the exterior noise or sound as much as possible.
>> Brian: Not the way you'd expect from a car that costs what is this car?
>> Wayne: 89, 90.
>> Brian: 85, 90? Yeah.
>> Wayne: Yeah optioned up it was about 89, 90, yeah right there.
>> Brian: That's the thing, now that same, you know we have so many convertibles in right now, you put the top up on the, this 370z Roadster or the IS350 and probably doesn't do any better job taking out road noise, but it's ok at that price.
>> Wayne: Right.
>> Brian: When you're paying 90000 dollars, you expect things to get real quiet when you want them to be quiet and this car, you know there's only so many things you can do with a canvas top.
>> Wayne: What I find interesting too is this is still a soft top when, where the BMW 3 series convertible is a hard top retractable.
>> Brian: Yeah, which is really cool.
>> Wayne: Yeah. So I mean I just kind of think that the BMW designers created the 6 series and they've just kind of let it sit there and.
>> Brian: That's a staler car.
>> Wayne: Yeah, they've updated a few things here and there, but they're just not interested in doing anything real with it.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: And it's really too bad because the original 6 series, the 633 and 635.
>> Brian: Oh what a hot car.
>> Wayne: Beautiful cars.
>> Brian: What a hot car.
>> Wayne: The Shark.
>> Brian: Yeah, yeah. Oh I love those original sixes.
>> Wayne: Yeah, they haven't recreated that unfortunately.
>> Brian: No, it became, even though that was a luxurious sporting car, those early sixes and we're going back to what? Late 70s, early 80s for those 635s and all that. But they had a little more sportiness to them, even though they were luxurious, but this car tends, it tilts more to luxury.
>> Wayne: Right.
>> Brian: And those still kept the sport bones you know in their, in their DNA. And this is kind of.
>> Wayne: Yeah, there's been some concepts out there for, for a series and I think there's hope for it yet.
>> Brian: Yeah.
>> Wayne: It could be salvaged, but I think BMW just has to stop messing around with the other things that they're doing and put some, put some people on this one.
>> Brian: It's got to be due for a heavy refresh because it really hasn't had one in a while.
>> Wayne: Yeah.
>> Brian: And you know they are, this is a high, I'm sure it's a high margin car. They got to make good money on every one of these they sell. They don't sell a lot, I don't know what the numbers are, but it's not their bread and butter car by any stretch. But it's a car that has to send a lot of money back home every time they sell one. So they don't want to screw with it. But yeah, if you're in the market for one, congratulations you got that kind of money to spend on a car. And secondly, you might want to hang on, because we really believe there's got to be a refresh coming sooner than later and BMW if we know, they know it, believe me. So, anyway, 650i mixed bag, check out our review. It's up at Cars.CNET.com and in fact it's the feature car right now on the CNET Car Tech section at Cars.CNET.com. Ok folks, that's it for the show for this week. On behalf of Wayne, the vacationing Antoine, myself Brian Cooley, thanks for joining us. You know how to email us, keep the emails coming. Great week for email. It's cartech@CNET.com. The show notes, CarTech.CNET.com along with the all the past episodes and we're all on Twitter. I'm BrianCooley, all one word. Wayne is WayneC_SF and Antoine is AntGoo, a, n, t, g, o, o. We will see you next week.
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