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The coolest TV tech of CES 2017CNET's Brian Tong and David Katzmaier discuss wallpaper-thin OLED, bright quantum dots and huge screens.
[MUSIC] Welcome back to the CNET stage at CES 2017. I'm Brian Tong and with me is the handsome David Katzmaier, have you been introduced like that before? Always. See, well- I insist, it's part of my contract. They wrote that in the actual prompter. Really? He reviews TVs and among other things, has obviously been super busy this entire week. And what we're here for, we're talking TV shows and really we wanna talk about what you love. You and I basically Sat in a both for two hours and talked about exactly this, so they're like hey, why don't we just put these two guys and talk about the same exact thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Sony booth is just crawling with new TV technology, we were there, you know, shooting videos, making it happen on the opening day. But it was fun. Now day one, you know I felt like LG basically Threw down the hammer and was like, you know what? CES 2017, first keynote, boom. This is the most sensational product you might see here on the show. Talk to us about it, and what makes LEs that special, and why maybe we should care. So this is the wallpaper television we are talking about. It's a W7. It's their first TV that is. Puts 3.5, no 3.8 millimeters thin, so about that thin. And you put that up on the wall and it basically blends completely into the wall. You see the video here. The coolest part about this, I've been reviewing TVs for a while. And I'm always like, another thin TV. What are you gonna do? [LAUGH] It's like, okay, fine, it's a thin TV. But you put them on the wall, they're like that. They're sticking out a little bit. This, once it's completely part of the wall, it kinda blew my mind. Now, I have seen this thing on a trip to Korea couple years ago in concept form, guy hands me this sheet, basically like a thing of cellophane. Black thing, like flapping around. And he's like we're gonna make this into a television. And I'm holding it, like what are you gonna do? Like this ribbon dangling from the bottom. [LAUGH] How do you plug anything into it? So what they did is, they just basically created the sound bar, the HDMI and everything connected to it. There's a little ribbon cable that runs up, you can see it right there, runs up through the wall, and that supplies the power and the HDMI. So they solved that problem. Of course you have to use the sound bar It's an $8,000 [UNKNOWN] and actually they just, the pricing just kind of leaked on Best Buy. So [UNKNOWN] till now we did a little Google search, found out that thing is actually available for preorder now for the 65 inch size, eight grand. It's eight grand? Yeah. See, we were trying to guess It's gonna be maybe like ten grand, somewhere around there, so eight grand is where they're gonna start it off. Okay, so right now it's 8,000. I mean, there are other OLEDs which, by the way, have the best quality we've ever tested and- By the way. Yeah, amazing. Those guys, they They have four of them this year, step down series is going to be less expensive my hope that the cheapest one which LG says it has the same exact picture quality of all of the more expensive ones, meaning you know, that's the one you want to buy, I'm hoping that things like maybe 2500 for a 65 inch come the holiday season, maybe two grand if we get lucky so That's kind of the most exciting thing I've seen at the show. And also, for those of you who don't even know what we're talking about, all I can tell you is we implore you to go to LG's booth when you're here at the show and look for this. You can just ask, well you won't even have to ask, you'll see it. They're everywhere, yeah. You'll see it and it's their wallpaper TV and really it's, I haven't seen anything, like you said, that's kind of blown our mind from the TV space. Until then, after all these years. And you've seen so many TVs. Well, the thing about CES. It's all concept stuff. There's a lot of mind blowing stuff. But you're never gonna be able to buy it. And again, it's for be able to preorder today, blah blah blah. So it's OLED and they can do some really amazing things with organic light emitting diodes. Obviously, they give you Perfect black level. Viewing angle is great. It's a lot like plasma used to be but even better. And super, super, super thin. And it's the first time you've seen that really thin application differentiate itself from what you can do with LCD. And I do want to keep on talking about this for one second because when you and I have been talking about this, you told me that they literally had to make the TV Thicker than they needed to, really to create some sort of a frame- So they could sell it- That would allow it to be shipped and sold, right? Yeah, yeah, so I'm sure when I open the box of the review sample, it's gonna be, the styrofoam's gonna be like [SOUND] the little thing, and maybe like gingerly pull it out of there but, yeah they had to stiffen it and basically just put some plastic on that floppy, OLED element that I described before. To make it something you can sell. At the bottom of the brand that comes with it is a magnet, the top it basically screws so its standard 18 pounds. You don't have to worry about studs or anything like that. You can put it on drywall just forget about it. So Even you could lift it up on the wall. I need a brand it. [LAUGH] They probably tell you to use 2 or 3 people just for To cover their **** with the lawyers. But yeah it's a pretty amazing television. Awesome what other stuff stuck out to you? You are our tv guru, so. Yeah, so we were in the Sony booth, you and I, and we saw the press conference. And it had been rumored, but now yeah Sony is also making an OLED television. So they're using LG display's panel. You have LG display, Vectori. They're the only ones that can make these large format, OLED things and not throw away 90% of them But, they're finally selling now to Sony and Sony is much stated in United States. So, you're gonna have competition for the first time between LG and Sony with this new technology, OLED. And you know, from what I've seen, It's really a good looking television with it some demos it's impossible to say which one is better, or even more importantly, whether the Sony one if it is better will not be too expensive to be worth while for the CPO. Sony hasn't talked about pricing yet. But that's gonna be available in the fifty-five, sixty-five, and seventy-seven inch size, again. And Sony did something really cool. Yeah. So, I don't know, do you see that, that, like the sound thing? That, that little, I, we have the video playing up, and there's probably moments when you can see it. But on the rear side, you'll see this This bar, I think we're starting to get to it. But it stretches from one side of the back. It's a black bar, and those are actually transducers that vibrate the screen, right? You wanna talk about the acoustics- It's bizarre, so, and again I saw this earlier at the LG display booth, which is [UNKNOWN] booth over here. And they, they walked me over, like, this is the coolest thing we have. And they handed me this little, like, thing that looked like a, a watch battery almost, bigger. And they're like, this vibrates the screen of the OLED tv to create sound. I'm like, okay, you know, does it make the picture wobble? That was my first question. Like, no, it's a digital demo. And you can even, the stuff is bouncing around on the, on the, you feel the screen, and it's got, you know, actual vibration The point is suppose to be, it removes the issue of voices coming from a speaker above and below, if you have a center channel, from either side. It localizes like somebody talking on the screen, and the sound comes right out of their mouth. Of the middle of the screen? Yeah, I mean, I did a demo, that's not a huge thing. But, the best thing about it is, I guess, is that it hides Speakers but again, if your paying this kind of money, we always say, invest in a decent speaker system because you know, speakers built in a t.v. is one thing, but your gonna get a so much better experience if you spend a few hundred dollars and you get a surround sound or even if you get a sound bar with something like this so it's a differentiator for Sony and it's got a cool design you can see it's got an angle back, that clock looking thing is actually a subwoofer so they tried to do something with the sound on it and they have You know, a nice design. but we'll see what happens when it compares to LG, and more importantly, how much Sony wants to charge. Yeah, and that's the question that we'll have. Are any of you guys and gals out there right now, are you even in the market for a tv? Or you just come here to kind of ogle and google at that stuff? In the market? Right. Excellent, yeah so we don't know- But you just want their prices to fall right? That's basically what, yeah, everybody, everybody. And that's really what's happening. It's all ready starting to happen. Even LG's current OLED this holiday season, right? All of a sudden there was like this 40% discount drop that came out of no where. Yeah, they were four grand and all of a sudden they're three. And then the ran it like a thing where they're 20 [UNKNOWN] and they use to talk about the 65 inch again. So a 6500 TV 65 receiving for 2,800 bucks is, it's some people real house. You can make that argument this other people that have a stake in your home. So I think next year->> You mean translation significant than others [CROSSTALK] Those are the discussions that need to be heard at some point. And that's where it's really interesting because you turn to Samsung. And that's LG principal competitor. By the way, if anyone doesn't know, Samsung is still by far the number one TV manufacturer in the world and they sell exclusively LCD based televisions which is not OLED. They came within OLED a few years ago but their concentrating on LCD. Their innovation this year is QLED Which by the way is still an LCD screen. Well, that's what I was gonna ask, they're using, and we have it here for you to watch on screen. They're touting this QLED technology, but you are saying it's actually LCD New technology with their own twist and their name to it, right? Yeah, yeah. So last year this [UNKNOWN] XUHT and in right balance. That's so much info all right? Yeah. Super, what is it? Super Ultra High Definition. And I got tried a little bath water. [LAUGH] But now they have QLED which stands for Quantum Something of LED, so light emitting diode. The point is that they have a quantum dot layer, they just had the same one they had last year. They've improved the quantum dot layer so now they have better light output, cuz quantum dots help improve the efficiency of the backlight, and they also improve the color, so they have a wider color gamut. Probably a very, very good looking television, Samsung says it's their best LCD television, whether it's better than OLED is a really tough row to hoe especially because at the high end they got rid of solar ray local dimming on their sets and now they're all edge lit. So long story short, Samsung has some tough competition and that's the high end of the TV market where OLED has been really, really getting share Samsung's advantage and LCD's advantage is that the large, the very large screen sizes, are only available in LCD. So, if you want something bigger then a 65- 75, 85 you want it very large, right? One of those dudes, yeah, and you have- You know I wanna be one of those dudes, but I'm not one of those dudes yet Well, you could be, because the thing is they're so much inexpensive now. The price on a 70 inch tv, 75 inch tv is just going down. 85 inch TVs are available. And I mean, they're still super expensive. But my point is, OLED is only 65. So some people are already asking me, is it better to get a 70 inch blah blah blah, or a 65 inch OLED? Depends on how close you're sitting, how big your room is, that sort of thing. But so that's where LCD at the high end is really still gonna be the choice. Do you know when we'll even see larger than 65 OLED, or they're a little apprehensive about that just for consistency? Yeah, so the issue now is they do make 77 [UNKNOWN] but the problem is that they don't have the yield. They don't have that, we talked about it before, throwing away 90% of the panel. It's still issue to get the yield up so, they're extremely exhibit but LG's semi-finish is always 20 grand, right now. You can but one. [LAUGH] You can buy one too. Right, I can too. I can buy ten for sure. So that price they tell me it's probably not gonna come down this year. They're gonna continue selling, even Sony has a 77 inch model in a line. But that's not gonna help anybody, you know? So, it's a question of when they can get that 77 inside. Their saying, you know, it's still a work in process to be able to compete with the very large screen LCDs. <<and help="" div="" a<="" is="" <<this="" <<yeah.="" right?="" screen,="" traditional="" a="" without="" really="" with="" that="" accomplish="" you="" can="" things="" coolest="" the="" of="" one="" saw="" we="" but="" baddest="" and="" biggest="" wants="" everyone="" sizes="" about="" talk="" know,="" then,=""></and> Sony's 4K HDR throw short projector>> Yes.>> This, it's not necessarily affordable to everyone you can't buy it but it's pretty mind boggling once you see the demo.>> Yeah, so I mean, and that's kind of, you talk about a very large HG, sorry This is basically- It's CES day two. Yeah. You're gonna make some [LAUGH] Make it through. Day two? What? [LAUGH] I saw a guy sleeping with a bag over his head on a chair. [LAUGH] that was me. Day two. [LAUGH] So, this is 100 inch projector screen, basically, and it's basically a TV because 2500 lumens, that's very bright. Most projectors you think you gotta have a dark room, you can't walk in front of the lens. It's a whole dedicated home theater thing. And those look spectacular when you turn the lights down, but you want a television you can watch, anybody can watch anytime. So just wanna really quickly show here, people that are watching this. Think of this as like a box That sits against your wall. You could put it in a built-in cabinet and it shoots that image onto your wall. It's nothing traditional, so when you're looking at these images and you're like, well, where's this coming from? It's that rectangular box that you see right there. Yeah, and the thing, I mean it's 25 grand. One reason, it's really, really bright. Another reason, it's 4k resolution, it's HDR compatible. Not gonna have the kind of HDR performance as an OLED but it's 100 inches and 120 inches, depending on how large of a skin you want to put on it. Interestingly, [UNKNOWN] the Chinese manufacturer that's been making in roads on the budget end in the United States, they announced another product that's very similar 4K HDR, really high light output, includes the screen and a 5.1 surround system, because why not? That's 13 grand. So this type of technology is a pretty cool alternative if you're that guy that's like, you know what? 85, just not big enough. I wanna go- [LAUGH] You gotta go larger. Yeah, might as well. But that Sony's a pretty beautiful looking piece. And then also at CES, we like A lot of companies like to show off the biggest, the baddest, the best. And I don't know about you at least from the most visually impressive screen that we saw was the CLEDIS demo from stone age. CLEDIS, come on. [CROSSTALK] Stands for Crystal LED Integrated System. I might get a chance to->> How did you, nice. Did you get her? Dude that's pretty good. Thanks. [CROSSTALK] That. Crystal [UNKNOWN] see it? I know something that [UNKNOWN] doesn't know this. What type of world are we living in? Good, you know Cletus. So, this display here you can find it in Sony's booth. It's basically a wall but what makes it special is it's 144 little modules that are about 16 by 18 inches, they're crystal LED modules that area all stacked together. They kind of call it the Lego Of TV sets, but when you look at this you can tell, even from this video, there are not seams on it what so ever. Obviously this is something that you can use for industrial use. I'm sure we'll see this at future CS's- Yeah, yeah. Further booths, sporting events. But that's a 32 by nine foot screen. 8k by 2k just ridiculous. And it's bright. I mean, a lot of these things it's like they have these big bulbs, the resolutions not there, this thing looks like a TV that's 32 feet long. It's great. So, it's one of those things that you definitely want to go and check out, and the good thing is also it's not a prototype. It's gonna be available in production in summer they said and it's just up to These companies that wanna use it, you can build different types of shapes if you want to, support it with different types of videos. It's really cool though. Yeah, it's very nice. So, as we kinda keep on talking about television sets, I guess We, we talked about the, the hot stuff, and what stuff everyone should look at. And not everyone's like, well, I'm gonna by that wallpaper tv, like most of us aren't. Right. But what about someone who's in the market, because you and I were like, I have a plasma tv. I have a Panasonic plasma tv, over there, Still do. Based on your recommendation, which I still love, right? But you and I are kind of in that spot of like, what'll be the next tv. Yeah. So Where are you at with all that? Well, I mean personally I'm still rocking a Panasonic Plasma 2 65 inch. I don't know how long I'm gonna continue doing that. But, it's tough now because if you want a really good the highest quality television, OLED I think is the way to go. You don't want to pay $20-100 to spend, and there's some really good TV's out there available, sometimes for half that or 2 grand or whatever and that's per television. So, LDL TV's out there we gave some really good [UNKNOWN] last year for those affordable televisions This year we're talking about Hisense and TCL. Both those guys are really trying to eat Vizio's lunch this year. And they're putting out televisions with full array local dimming, which is a technology that allows, you know, really good picture quality on LCD TVs. These are lesser-known brands. But they really want to get share, so they're really relatively inexpensive for these televisions. TCL's coming out with a full array local dimming Roku TV, which is awesome, by the way, the Roku operating system is great, for 500 bucks for a 50-inch model Wow. That has really good, and also it's Dolby Vision HDR, by the way. So it's got all these things at the high end TV manufacturers Put in their TVs for a lot less. And that's kinda why we've loved Vizio recently. Vizio didn't have anything to show, by the way. They were recently acquired by Echo, which is another Chinese brand. So some stuff shuffling around there, we're gonna what they come up with for 2017. But those TVs are really recommendable. But it's hard For me to say, you know what, don't just wait. If your TV is good enough now. Waiting all the prices to fall, maybe holiday season 2017 might be the way to go. Okay, well you know what? That's also just right with the discount. What about Don't TV prices, do they tend to drop around Super Bowl time? Is that a thing? It depends yeah, so often you'll find the lowest prices around Black Friday. But when retailers want to get rid of their inventory to make room for the new stuff that we've all seen. That's when it is. They go ahead and liquidate them. So the Super Bowl sales are kind of be coming around soon. And you know, you'll see some really good prices on there. The problem is, if you've waited this long. Often the TV that you want might be rare enough they don't have to put it on sale, or whatever. So, you could get really lucky, get some 2016 stuff. That's why it's nice, go to CNET, check out our reports. See what's out now. Then you can decide, well, do I want to wait for this new fangled, new technology, or Last year's model good enough. I heard CNet's a pretty good site to go check out. I mean, I kinda go there pretty often. I know, I do too. [LAUGH] All right, hey, thanks so much, David. We've got more good stuff to come. Next up, Lego is in the house. Stay with us. [MUSIC]