Ep. 55: Looking at display technologiesHow long before we can paint a display on our walls? Is Apple's Retina display really at the limits of human perception? And what's up with those Sharp four-color TVs? These and other display issues addressed with CNET's Eric Franklin and DisplayMate...
Hi everyone welcome to reporters roundtable primary needling this is our weekly deep dive into the single tech topic. And today that topic is going to be display technology's future. Two great guests first from CNET lab's Eric Franklin the monitors editor and reviewer -- -- The two have you with us thanks for joining us coming on the show I think yeah -- it's. And also Skyping in from somewhere race -- -- who -- -- CEO of display mate. This is a company that makes software for tuning and testing displays a lot of operations like CNET use the software they also make test patterns that these guys are experts -- -- thank you so much for technicolor joints where you calling from. -- Amherst New Hampshire on the exact opposite in the US from you -- you are in fact. The opposite but there was actually New Hampshire is not up to the Cisco. Alexander -- is edit it San Francisco ending in New Hampshire both keynote. Live free or die type of you know do anything you want. I'm all about that are right. So we're gonna talk about displays today everybody do what is. The up and coming new technologies -- tapping the plasmas. What's up a big displays parents when your living room and we're gonna talk but small displays -- put on mobile phones and and tablet computers we're gonna start talking about big displays. What are some of the major trends in display technology as. Personal were heading into you know Christmas buying season and for the next year to what are we gonna see in in living room displays. I -- answer I had yeah okay -- well. As is. Concerning computer monitors I can say that LED displays are completely ubiquitous right now they're everywhere. Like every company every other week I'm getting -- and -- -- buy from some company. So I and that's Elliott plays are basically displays how would be backlights instead of these you go back -- -- equivalent -- -- or some. Yes yes yes exactly. And bills mean that's like the big pollution. On computer monitors and what's a greater ability -- well the thought is that you know. If you're not using two technology that displays can be made dinner them and they have been mate senator usenet using that technology also of that. On -- using LEDs you can actually get. The brightness to be a lot brighter or to be actually let darker you know you get the -- we eat birds like that. I'm I have seen any display that that's use it. That you did that well so far. Some of them use some of them are then some of them have high brightness that if -- any of -- combine all of those. Let's for the brighter displays are thicker. Usually okay how exactly but that's only with computer monitors for TVs that maybe it and Soriano you know at that now be kept Mars on the TV side and -- and ask you purposes as well. We've seen. The move to LED's are the big are being marketed for televisions. Yeah and I think KLA leader -- here think that Kelly these are the big marketing hype is -- But but really they're just the backlight and frankly. And you -- from a technical perspective. He -- viewer cannot tell the difference between a well calibrated display with an LED backlight. And a well calibrated display with a fluorescent backlight there are some advantages but it's nowhere near the -- level and you know Eric is right there. You know the -- it's the wave. For computer monitors -- And HDTVs. Are LED backlights and they do have some advantages and of course they've already -- the mobile space system but but -- it is a marketing hype. Now LEDs are. More expensive and -- -- belt technologically yet. Corrective action. Yet dear dear well there's still more expensive and they are they are now approaching the point where they are somewhat more efficient. Okay then. -- fluorescent bulbs and that's another important factor that you know. -- in that Derek is pointed out -- thickness after. Yeah they definitely have low power consumption and all that displacement that's another that does LED technology awful last longer than -- to -- that a non factor for something dynamic and in the consumer market. -- mature rating you and answer them. -- -- -- -- -- -- The life times quoted by manufacturers which are very hard for you know were -- regular labs to -- are typically 60000 to 100000. Hours. Now if you watch TV eight hours that day. That works out. To. With three -- and hours 2500 hours a a year. And does so we teach you definitely not yet -- com Sokol an end LED lifetimes are are great. Organic LEDs are -- issue where the lifetimes are not clear at this point. Oh we'll get fill it in a second but I I wanna talk about them be the historical technologies. And where they were going on the first flat screens. That people. That consumers and businesses -- access to were based on not -- we're talking display technology you know living room display. Despite not and so commodities and yep -- or plasma displays. And actually even before that we are pros are actually -- that I read the giant they lecturing -- in the country on now greatness. But plasma displays were the big deal what happened to plasma displays I mean are they're still being sold but I'm I'm confused about. Where they're going and why there's buildings -- -- I -- I mean plus this. -- -- suffering. Because LCD LCDs are simply -- marketing them. They're great technology. -- really suffering in the eyes of the public because. When they first came now they obviously weren't as good and they did suffer. It. Aging issues which people incorrectly called burn but nonetheless that that is a big issue that the manufacturers never addressed. It's a fabulous technology much better black levels much better viewing angles. Are much better response times lossless much less motion blur. They're nowhere near as bright as LCDs so. If you have. A monitor TV in a brightly lit location. LCD technology is for you but if you happen to like to watch. Movies and you have a controlled ambient lighting environment. I think it -- aide David Katz mart would would definitely agree with this as any other major -- that plasma technology is still. Superior. For video files but it's losing the war and it's a marketing war and in. End to say it's not clear that they're gonna be -- that much longer but he is a great technology -- possibly gonna disappear. Just a little side note here for the technical among -- and in our audience. What's the the technology how does a plasma display actually work and we work where the the problems with it. That you know LCDs. Well armed appliance that displays actually very similar to -- CRK. Because it has fonts first. And at SC RT shoots -- electron beam to excite the phosphorus. Whereas a plasma display has individual cells with fonts first. And each. Of the red green and blue sub pixels in in it in the display here. Our control digitally so -- -- a full digital display most people don't know that LCD technology is actually analogue at the at the panel. Com is so plug that displays or or essentially -- -- CRTs. That are operated digitally rather than an animal. -- hang on second. I thought that all modern techno all modern display technologies where pixel address global that the program -- on the displays that. Put this color on this pixel here and that that's. And they work that way up to. Where we -- -- -- That's great that's -- that's the dressing aspect but the brightness of -- pixel -- sub pixel yeah. Is an analogue DC analog signal for LC -- And say yes you can address -- each pixel is is addressed digitally. But in in and it doesn't matter whether the signal comes in analogue to the display award digital. On by the time it gets to the panel when it's going to the final panel that's converted to an analog voltage. And that has advantages and it has disadvantages. But at whereas plasma is totally digital pixel was either on or off in the way you control the intensity very precisely and a plasma display. If you turn that pixel on an. Off rapidly and if it's all 125%. Of the time and -- 75. That's how you control the brightness but it is a digital process DLP is the other technology that's totally digital. Most other technologies are actually analogue it somewhat -- It GOP is a rear projection does play in those. Those -- great to be the poor man's flat screen that still okay. I'm actually I think it's a no man's flat. Display now I think if you want content. -- any major retailer you won't see them anymore it's unfortunate because there are a lot. Less expensive and they actually have some advantages over and above. Direct view sets LCD and plasma I think with 3-D if it ever does take off. We may see projection and rear projection come back because. You won't need active glasses don't go on why would you not Nina who -- that would because you can put on same reason that you don't need it in the in a movie you could essentially. Includes. Two sets of projection optics you have passive glasses when you go to a movie theater in out. You don't need to use the the active classes because they're in effect two projectors. And they're sending. EE. Either left and right circular polarized images or at in the -- system. Red green blue notch filters. Whereas with that the way you make a direct view plasma or LCD work is you've got -- you got -- -- switched. The left in the right channels and so. The only way that that is ever gonna work. Is with active glasses and anybody that talks about you know. And technologies in the in the future directly technologies without active glasses this. Is going for a very extraction. Are also one of the other things that I do wanted to get into here because -- -- -- and that's true we all have is this. Sharp I think it is has is pushing that. Bear LCD displays. Have four color pixels instead of three. First of all what's the thinking here it certainly does that work. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Short yeah I I actually. Did a little piece on that basically on it's completely a marketing gimmick. -- if it fit the EU. Images are generated. All commercial. Consumer. A production content is generated on three color displays using a three colors standard. It's transmitted that way. When you get to when it gets to the home receiver. Or any viewer. The display and I don't care what technology is cannot show you colors that we're not are in the original. Image so the only thing that any kind of technology like that can do. It's stretched the color gamut meaning make things redder than they should be your greener. The the sharp one adds a yellow pixel. Which is not surprising because you generate yellow from red red and and green. And what they try to do is is produce. A yellow pixel -- -- more yellow than what can be produced. By normal red and green I showed technically that that's actually not the case. -- in an article that I wrote by looking at. From -- to city diagrams actually doing measurements. It's. The only thing that can be said for it is dead it's if you like exaggerated punchy colors. You may like it in especially if you -- yellow. As they might as they -- collar and all of their demos you know have. I don't like major -- -- I really like my journalism -- other -- that I'm not much it's. But so it doesn't make things it it does make things brighter and yellow -- I have a technical article that that shows that. And that really is not doing what they claim they claim they're showing you colors. Ordinary TVs can't show -- just didn't you stretching color -- because it. Are there any other great. I'm gonna get -- -- sharpen it but whatever are there any. Other great display hoaxes whether it's the connectors that you know our -- stuff like that that we're being fed it in marketing as. I mean we just talked about LEDs being from the viewer's perspective really no greater than sixty -- The yellow pixel being. There -- not necessary any other stuff out there were being fed that we should be pay attention of every great you just did an article on -- my. However like pedaling a bunch of that's the -- Which displays are no different than any other you know thing -- -- -- buying butter so cars or or or anything or can't digital cameras. You know every speck that your being dead. Is kind of got a spin on it. Now the real problem with displays. Is that that -- that people don't really understand have a good feeling for the numbers that are being presented them I tell you -- gets you know it does your 64 seconds know exactly what it is it I tell you that a -- is getting. Fifteen miles -- gallon you know what it is and in fact if you don't believe the manufacturing going you know fill up your car and and in with. And and figure out how many miles per gallon you're getting with the display all of the specs brightness contrast response time color gamut. Every suspect it's published. The consumer has personable no way to verify and second of all the industry standards that are. It being used or I should say non industry state -- that are being used are. Purchased mostly spent aren't for example. -- for example. Well contrast ratio was is it's a big one the true contrast ratio -- LCD display is -- isn't. Typically no higher than 2000 want. Yeah if you go into any store. And -- we talking about computer monitor HT TE anything you're gonna see. Contrast ratios. Listed you know 200001035002. Million infinite. All of those you know -- just absolute nonsense and and here's how they do what I mean it's it's I. Some people would call it a lot like what they do is. The measure that the -- -- -- is is that brightest white that you can make and the darkest black you can make. So what they do is they they of course pump everything up to give you that -- -- away is he can't and then eight. The a lot of displays have a standby mode. And and when the display says oh you want me to produce -- I'm gonna turn myself off. And then they use that abnormal black which is very low. To to produce the contrast ratio but any picture. That has real content will never reached that. True you know stand by black so the real contrast ratio -- a picture is present is about 2001. And Eric debt you know does measurements like this and I'm sure he you know will. Get back me up on -- indeed -- Contrast ratios you know -- capsule not to send their exaggerated not by 10% 20% we're talking exaggerations of thousands of a percent -- -- -- a -- We'll let you know what I want us to talk -- -- another spec which is refresh rate but before we get into that. We're going to take this little refreshing break and we come back we'll get into that -- that. Molly Wood and practically inviting you to join us for the 2010 edition of cnet's holiday help desk that happens every Monday at 1 PM Pacific 4 PM eastern starting November 22. It's where we make you look like a brilliant tech gifts here as we take your live calls -- we -- your emails in fact when you. Send us an email right now to holiday helped -- at cnet.com and along with the rest of cnet's editors will point you to the right product at the right right. Holiday help desk Mondays at 1 PM Pacific time starting November 22 at cnet.com slash life. Okay we we need to get into mobile blue displays the before we do that -- -- get into one more wanted to more things here and one of those things that I've seen a lot you know two any big box store you see. Refresh rate is a big deal -- used to be at all televisions had a sixty Hertz refresh rate which was as fast as the AC. Line possibly the -- that. That's a -- -- -- current here in the US. Fifty Hertz displays by the way almost everywhere else which means -- your sense of the Flickr. TVs look at it -- more when he overseas which are used to. Anyway now we're seeing. Flat screen displays 120 -- 240 Hertz what is that all about why I mean the eyes can't perceive that. Anyway so why are we getting pushed these. More quickly refreshing displays and doesn't really matter on an LTD display. Rate the what. Got -- sure -- -- out -- that your. Well. I think again I like claimed. Based on you know extensive lab testing and I've done. That bomb that it's all a marketing gimmick in the sense that the response times that manufactures quote. Our. And ghastly inflated. And what we do the lab tests the the differences between sixty and a 120 Hertz displays. Are simply not visible in in in. Visible in in in normal video content something by the way that that David Katzmaier of of -- agrees with me are we both agree together. A 100% it. That the the visual differences that you see with higher refresh rate simply aren't care. I show one of technical article -- I've done. If the real refresh rates first that for LCDs are really fifty milliseconds not one or two or eight milliseconds on a show this by high -- screen shots. -- with that kind of response time it's rather clear. That way -- you refresh the screen sixty or a 120 to forty -- or or an infinite number of times per second. The fact that the liquid crystal is only responding. Over periods of time -- fifteen milliseconds. The indicates that none of that is gonna really matter in fact 180 amusing things is. That I predicted that 3-D displays would have go skiing and left right issues. Because of that fact ten N and now what -- 380 manufacturers are. Coming to me and saying yes you were right now -- oh. One of things of course that. The difference between. What we generally -- video content is that it's it's I think it's reported at thirty or sixty frames second. The movies are at different -- 23 point 997 or 24 frames per second. It does that how does that affect how we view and feel about the content and and and as it relates especially to displace. Well get movies are different game because they are as you say 24 frames per second in the -- are a whole series of problems. When content moves across the screen rapidly and and and their motion -- -- elation which is no different then you know. -- is increasing. The the refresh rate the -- -- -- can smoothed out the motion of objects -- improve -- the visibility of movie content. Have to do we actually want that because when we go into movie theatre we see something twenty for a yes. It feels -- we've been ingrained culture -- that -- cinematic. Now I don't I don't want that I don't like having what I wanna watch a movie I want it to look like movie and I want to look like video from and when I'm watching like well -- something film a sitcom for example down -- different then exactly and you didn't if you're watching a movie something like that. I'm when I'm watching. Something that's recorded on film -- -- to feel like feel film has a certain feel to it and watch it when they when that when you pump up. To refresh rate like that like you know lucky these titles like movie modes -- -- movie -- when -- like that it looked unnatural to me and it just throws me off and Mike. You know I'm looking -- this is right is invited to look movie to me looks like someone from. The one filmed on video just doesn't look like a movie so. -- -- Yeah they'll and they -- two schools of thought they are and and I do agree with with Eric fit. Their movies if wing when you see a movie at home you kinda wanted to have the feel of the movie theater. On the other hand. I personally feel the thing that -- bugs me when I'm watching movies. In him in a theater is sometimes when things are moving across the screen rapidly they're jumping because it's 24 frames a second. So if we can have a little bit of advanced technology. On okay and some -- this is like really high power processing. Two in -- -- what the image looks like -- -- halfway between to reduce the mom could jumping -- -- the image and that's all I'm talking about here. On I personally feel that you know that that is an improvement. But but there are many schools of -- here and and I certainly respect the you know I wanna see -- the way that the you know what I saw it at the movies. How important is the image processing technology the computer inside -- display whether it's desktop monitor or a wall mount. LCD display in the quality of the image that the users going to receive compared to say. Whether LTD your -- he or you know stuff like that. Well real for you -- high quality video processors you know cost 5101000. Dollars or more. And so the quality of video processing that your gonna get in -- computer monitor or an HDTV -- -- paying you know 500 -- thousand dollars for. Is gonna be you know good and obviously getting better because stated that stuff always -- -- improves over time. But -- high power. Image processing. Just for requires. You know a lot of silicon and and it is getting better but none. I have in my lab. A -- 8000 dollar. Image processor that I use for my lab tests and there's no question that it does substantial. Better what do you see when you're looking at an 8000 this. You know -- they've got to fifty inch displays and one is you know off the shelf Costco on the others running through this 8000 dollar image processor. What do you do you see a difference. Well here's. -- -- it isn't what happens it is a matter of fact it's kind of amusing what these things do and it it won't be good for gamers a lot of them. Look what when they're doing. Motion processing etc. They will look at up to six and eight frank teams and so an image that did I see. Coming out of the image processor is delayed by significant annual fraction. Because it. Instead of looking at two frames it will look it up to six frames compare them all to all their fancy computer processing. And so there's a lot going on they are. And and ordinary consumers you know probably don't want that. But -- are our -- like for example. On you have to have motion processing because as you know if if you're watching a football game and and the football players running for from left to right on the screen. The the odd lines are recorded. -- sixty that the second you know after the even lines and so. No parts of the guy York. The -- even line point portions of that of that player. Is kind of look at a whole series of frames -- -- Oh yeah I know what this guy is doing he's running left or right and -- and yes you know it's separated by this so I'm gonna now reconstruct an image. And -- and as best I can't so that so that. I I predict you know how would look if it were. A progressive stand. And that is you know of course most of the content -- people watcher -- -- TDs anytime there's motion involved. There's combing. And we can't. And that's we get combing on sports and TVs and then -- -- and then and pitches and at a computer games. On a monitor we don't get that we get -- which is which is really -- airtalk -- that out if we're talking about. Video press' inference that ahead and I'm playing a game I'm gonna deal with -- -- You know you don't really see that much you don't really -- carrying -- you know like -- Lot of computer games have. Do you think a decent options so you turn of these think you know -- -- -- -- -- home and my experience testing computer monitors and passing month with -- with old mini games now. I don't see much Terry what I do -- like concerning the 120 versus sixty -- issue. Is that I I have thing I have seen the difference between the two like on -- very specific thing like if you're like to say that they're gonna prescription shooter. In Europe against the walls like that you're panning let them -- -- At a six at sixty Hertz I was able to see more blurring them that I was at a 120 Hurst has only prisoners can make -- different. Arm but I don't see I don't see -- -- make a lot to giving difference with Terry and games. As far as like the video the -- of processing our question goes -- monitors -- much different. What what I do see a difference in what monitors color color accuracy. Like that -- the color balance is always off on certain monitors and more trying to calibrate them to keep them right here on but I don't feel out of like. Yeah -- I let you know what I -- I wanna keep this moving we're gonna run out of time far too quickly on the spot -- so much talk about but I wanted to get into mobile displays here a little bit. Of course the the big news in mobile displays right now from the consumer's perspective this this idea of the -- that display. Steve Jobs talked about this when he announced the iPhone for much higher pixel density he said as. Any higher and would be -- -- because the human retina can't distinguish. -- you've done some looking into this that this talk about that the so called retina display what's what's that about how close is it to the limits of -- Well yeah I started -- an incredible brouhaha. Unintentionally. I look at it -- expects tonight it is simply check. All manufacturers. Specs and when I looked at -- -- you know the retina display it is an outstanding display. But if you look and you could compute what they with the human -- is able to result. And you know what the iPhone can itself produced -- it's being looked at roughly from twelve inches. It's actually a factor of two. All off meaning you need it -- has. Roughly half the resolution of the -- has now let me qualify that with -- with the iPhone has if you have 20/20. Vision. Which is not perfect vision it's actually written -- and low end of normal vision. And that's you know offered for driver's licenses and things like that the human I. They're plenty of people and in fact I went out to kids ahead 2010 vision twice as good as 20/20. And there are plenty of people out there that have better than 20/20 vision so uncheck that -- -- Steven called the iPhone at 20/20 vision display. He's bang on but it. The -- it that neurons in the in the -- now. -- have at least twice you know all the resolving power. Now at 20/20 vision and because is saved -- people with 2010 vision. Would be able to you know resolve. Essentially twice as much content as what's in the -- but. So it's a -- to get a marketing -- issue and it is that the -- display is is outstanding in terms of sharpness and and many other qualities are nice I gave it an award but it is not technically. You know erect no display it's at 20/20 vision display. Now the other thing course about most phones including iPhone right now there's still an LED backlit display. And we've been hearing for a long time about all lit organic light emitting -- despite what what is that technology how to different from what we consider LED displays and where is it in the consumer cycle. -- I think or Gallic organic LED's are a brand new technology. They -- making impressive strides in what happens with every technology as it launches. Is it you know it starts out miserable and expensive. And then if if it's given the opportunity it's slowly perfected over time -- and and then becomes mainstream. A lot of great technologies. Have Studdard somewhere in that process and been killed. On quickly et -- cups liquid crystal on silicon is it is an outstanding technology was -- On. FED field emission displays an FCDs is another tech outstanding technology billions invested in it you know and and died. Organic LEDs on. Have actually made it mostly because they had been pushed by some major players. The the advantage of organic -- -- Is that. They are invasive LCDs are transmits it meaning there's a light the back in the LE d.s LCDs job is to block the light. That's actually principal -- inefficient process from the organic LEDs. Are able to emit. Red green and blue light you can put enough for them -- on a on it on it substrate so that it can produce a high quality. -- on -- it but it. Any technology takes a while to perfect and organic -- -- arm here you're not yet is anywhere near as bright as LCDs. A factor of two in fact in my tests. The the iPhone was -- Display I've ever measured reaction was more power efficient and the organic daily beast people love you're gonna -- -- because they produce extremely saturated red green and blue colors. And some people like punching images but if you're gonna put a picture of you know a picture of something up spending and the reds -- to read -- the greens are too green in the blues are two blue. Then that they are the colors are often sometimes you may find that pleasing but. If if color accuracy is important -- -- not. And they had been evolving last -- when I tested the Nexus One. Which was that the first real big mainstream -- mobile display that came on launch I gave it in new extremely low ratings it was just miserable -- -- Yeah -- let's. And and now the Samsung galaxy S which is bigger Samsung's next generation super -- let. Performed incredibly well not as well as the iPhone at which is an in plane switching LCD -- But certainly you know extremely well it's very exciting that -- -- -- Kelly these are actually not an ideal technology for mobile displays because. You never use them in the dark and they have excellent black levels. And they're not as bright as LCD is so. And so they -- not come as good for. Bright locations and of course a mobile display is typically used in bright locations where they are exciting and -- -- -- I'm really. Can't wait to see them is when they may come bake for TV's because they -- they will have Peter infinite black levels and they will be able to produce. Excellent colors. When will -- I saw it's. Part stringer at of the conference showed off that's the Sony LCD a few Olympus by you to believe that. Tiny display 1213 inches at 3000 dollars in it -- the advantage of it it's it's a laugh at Phoenix it's like. Two millimeters thin but you know you don't buy display it'll get -- that John care so it was very sexy but we still haven't seen consumer. Is there. There are there any monitors that are Olivia -- no I wanted to. He's -- yeah yeah you're there way to expensive you can -- I mean as you pointed out that twelve -- the original Sony. On HDTV a led display was 2500 dollars and -- eleven inch display and by the way it's it's -- Hey it's prospers. Or -- the -- the organic LEDs had. Lasted only roughly a thousand hours -- -- about. Yeah so -- is it's an issue dead you know -- to say no technology is perfect they all of -- LCDs had been. You know it'd be in. Perfected for over twenty years so -- at some point the organic -- are gonna get. Less expensive. To hype it's hard to believe that they're even gonna -- -- be able to afford an organic LED. -- tablet. PC in the near future but you know hopefully will be. Be surprised -- but they're still enormously expensive than the aging issue. It's not clear that the aging issue has been settled in the real problem is not only is short but the red green blue. Some pixels each different rate so what if the colors are good when it's brand new -- not so good you know further down and it remains to be seen paint a picture. A quick question and elect before you go to our last topic here in the organic part are we talking like partnering thing is are they're like little pieces of shrimp environment will work what's the are. Floor and up well the organic is is you know held a LEDs the the the traditional LEDs that we eat we know love our. Our silicon based. And today I'm not I have not investigated did the chemistry of this but yes they they use organic. They use organic materials and -- the LEDs on it can be deposited in printed on -- -- and that's why. The -- it's possible to produce. On flexible versions of organic -- -- They just is you know appeared to did you're a different kind of -- the meeting medium. And we we're used to the silicon. Heart and and these just use chemicals that that are carbon based. -- That's -- -- -- talk about organic chemistry effecting any go in there think it's all about -- not just aren't here yet that our last topic I wanna talk about is. The most pedestrian use of a display. Which is reading. Now the Kindle came along and it was the first arguably the first popular. And it's a it's a wonderful devices -- -- -- batteries last forever. Now we're seeing. That -- CE -- electronic book reader but he uses a traditional LCD display are we seeing the eventual demise of the I can't I can't really speak today. Yeah but I think -- you. He thinks you know or -- interesting -- display technology -- do things certain things better than LCDs. A they have. Very low power consumption. And they can be used in under very bright ambient lighting because they're reflective. LCDs. You -- are miserable in both of those environments. The major problem unfortunately with Britain with that is that they have theory -- response times. Low contrast ratios from I'm so there's nothing print and refresh rates -- -- fractions of a second and and it's really annoying to turn. It did. The page -- a whole bunch of different. Electronic. Ink technologies. And and I think basically. The did this new -- that is being announced two in which it which is -- but color is actually exit IP SL CD made by LG which is the same manufacturer. As the iPad. I think they're just responding to whatever the consumers want. And up but there are pluses and minuses and and I've noticed that and I haven't seen these yet but they're they're now gonna -- -- Mom. A quarter but it is -- basically. That arm and he is reflected his -- and can be read in bright sunlight. Detain you can't use you know an -- -- Earned me -- -- if you want -- -- long battery life and and I think I believe the nook in the -- you know Kent can last for a week. And so -- you know whether they live and die is gonna depend on consumer taste on marketing spin. And we'll see where they go but up obviously. Barnes & Noble feels that they need to respond to the I can -- with -- A color based. Display and and then -- keep their eye strain issues -- there's some issues involved when you look at these displaced. Fifty dogs some people claim and I'm not gonna you know take sides some people claim that the the then LCDs I have another article it talks about on. Oh -- ambient light sensors on all LCD displays is being. Totally -- -- -- and -- and that's based on extensive lab measurements that I've done on the iPhone and Android phones. The eight with the ambient light sensor is being wrong the brightness can be often too high which causes -- strain. And also their room injury -- power consumption which is probably -- -- the thing that will drive you know the acceptance of what I have written a -- -- -- Great week we. Unfortunately. I'd like keep going on this we're gonna we're totally -- -- -- way over the so much to talk about here. One last thing as we wrap up how long until we can go down to the hardware store by bucket of display and painted on our wall. Are we anywhere closer to that. That's what I want. Yeah I. I don't know I think actually I think what what may happen. I projection technology is gonna come back if you wanna big -- if you wanna be. Image you really want it yeah it. -- to be projected and and so yeah -- -- you buy a little box. And it's and just make a big space on your wall paint -- white and you're ready to go out and by the way pocket and and Tyco projectors -- The new. Life's blood of DLP field he almost disappeared. But little I think projectors are going to make a comeback when people. Want much bigger displays. It yet not gonna get much better than 65% in the inches. -- on it directly display they're just too big and too heavy. And done that but we're with the projection display a little box in -- put you know 10050. Inch. Image on your wall. A problem. Aren't great thank you so much for joining us you can find response rates and -- stuff at this playmate that come yes. And we'll have links by the -- to all of a lot of a great article to raise written in the show notes on. Reporters roundtable dot cnet.com. Eric Franklin thank you also for joining us patient and you find your reviews in your lab work and where I think cnet.com. Okay illness yeah. Week we read a lot of display reviews both of course -- on them. Monitors and televisions and mobile devices that check at CNET -- -- for all the latest on displays. If you want to send an email to -- to suggest a topic or view feedback on this when it's roundtable at cnet.com you can follow me on Twitter are a happy. Air can be found at. -- -- on Twitter I'd need -- in ideal piano and rates and Eric can be found at. Display -- on Twitter great are right until next time everyone thanks for joining us see you next week thank you -- --