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Ep. 1263: Where Caroline bribes us with baconAfter a two-years, Caroline McCarthy finally makes her return to the show to tell us about her time at Google and why she did the impossible and left.
-What's up, everybody? It's Friday, May 3, 2013. Thanks for tuning in to the 404 Show. I'm Jeff Bakalar. -I'm Justin Yu. -I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez. -Welcome to the program. This is a big week because yesterday we had the great Marc Maron. Today we have someone who has not been on this program for the last 2 years literally to the date almost. -Yes. -Very, very happy to welcome back to the show, Caroline McCarthy. What's up, Caroline? -Life is good. -Life is good. -I'm excited to be here. -Thanks so much for doing this because we've been trying to do this for a while. -Yes, I know and it was like, I was like guys I've got a like a corporate job. Now I can't just leave to go on air and you know kind of just you know shoot the breeze with you guys. -Yes. -But now I am self-employed. I am independent. I get to make my own schedule and it's awesome. -You're living the freaking dream. -Well, only if I can come and be on the show more often. -You swear because I'm not-- -Like I swear. -Gonna lie. -I swear. -I can get a little personal here. I feel like at one point, not that you're avoiding us. -I wasn't avoiding you. -No, no, no. -I'm just never a morning gal. -Of course not and I'm not implying that. -Yes. -Because we've always been good buds. -Oh yes. And I mean you guys are like-- I mean you're super legit now. You got you know crazy guests on the air like I remember seeing stuff on Facebook where I was like, "What, they've got him on?" Yes, I'd like-- there was somebody recently someone who-- -Well I was like freaking out about Marc Maron yesterday. -That was cool. -Yes. But there is somebody a couple of months ago whom I was just like-- -Danny DeVito at CES? -Okay. It wasn't Danny DeVito. It was-- shoot, somebody from some movie or like-- oh, the Super Troopers guy. -Oh, oh, Kevin Heffernan and Jay Chandrasekhar. -Yes. That was awesome. -That was really cool. That Justin learned about Super Troopers that week. -Wait. You didn't know about Super Troopers? -I hadn't watched it before so that's why I didn't participate in the interview and then that night I watched it on Jeff's recommendation. -And he's like damn it. -And I was like wow, that movie is hilarious. It's funny because I tried watching it when I was in high school and I didn't think it was funny. -Yes. -So some things must have changed in my sense of humor since then. -Yes. You started doing drugs. -Yes. And now I think it's hilarious. -Yes. There were definitely things when I think I saw that. I must have been in high school and I just didn't get it or I think it was-- that movie if you don't start it from the beginning-- -Yes. -It is not easy to get kind of in the middle of because you just don't get anything. -Right. -But I think the more you see it, the funnier it gets. -It's totally true. Absolutely. A lot of films are like that because you kind of you form your own little inside joke with the movie itself. -Yes, exactly. -And that film is filled with those. -Yes. I recently, I wrote kind of a personal essay like I think it was 2 months ago when I realized that Old School had just hit theatres about 10 years ago. -Yes. I read that. -And wow. I mean like that movie is so much if you were in college or I would say even in high school at the time when that came out, there are like so many things that you sort of personally connect to. -Sure. -And I think the movie was kind of structured that way. -Right. -It's kind of genius. -Yes. What's amazing about that one is you sort of watch it and no one has a cellphone really in that movie. -No. -Yes, which is weird and now cellphones are so pivotal in films. -It's funny because they don't, at the same time they don't really make a big deal out of what time the movie was made in. -Right. -They don't talk but there are no sort of or not I would say probably way fewer than one we would expect kind of pop culture references they put it in 2003. -Yes. -And the only, they don't kind of like 80s up. -Sure. -The college backgrounds that the guys are constantly alluding to. -Yes. -I think they mentioned White Snake like twice in that set. -Right and it's yes, with Will Ferrell's character but they do and yes you're right. It's sort of like this Evergreen thing where it's timeless. -It's very Evergreen. -Yes. -It's very Evergreen. -For sure. So you've been up to some stuff huh? -Yes. I went and I worked at Google for 2 years and I learned a ton and met some fantastic people. -What was that like? -I mean it's Google. Speaking of Vince Vaughn movies there's about to be one about Google. -All right. -So you were around when they were shooting that. -Yes. I actually-- there is a chance that I am in some overhead shots. -Oh, okay. Cool. -Because they were shooting at the Mountain View headquarters and I happen to be out there that week. -Yes. -And there was one time when I was trying to get from one building to the next when I was actually riding one of the G-Bikes they call them, which was just I'm an absolute disaster on those things because there are these like primary colored cruiser bikes-- -Yes. -And sometimes the tires aren't really fully inflated and you're like dodging you know people staring at their phones and it's kind of hazardous. -Yes. -And someone stopped me and they were like you can keep riding. Just don't look up and just keep doing what you're doing. And I was like oh okay. And they were filming it, filming it overhead of the Google campus-- -Yes. -From a helicopter. -Oh my God. -And so if that's in the movie and there's some like girl with a gray backpack on a bike going like this who would probably smash against people because I'm terrible at riding those bikes, that might be me. -Oh, man. -But there actually maybe more than one person that fits that description. -Because no one could read these bikes at Google like-- -Well, I think people who rode them regularly got used to them. The New York office we did not have bikes when I was based in New York and but then the Mountain View office, the G-Bikes were a way of life. -So it sounds like there's a big difference in size between the Mountain View campus versus New York. -Yes. -Is it just one building in New York? -In New York it is-- -Oh, it's by Chelsea Market. -Yes, well there are I think 2 floors of Chelsea Market and then Google owns and there's now a big Google sign outside of it. Google owns that building, the old port authority building. And so-- -And the subway beneath it and the 5 miles of earth below that. -And the alligators in the sewers. -Did I read something online about hidden meeting rooms that exist in the New York Google office? -Yes. There are actually. -Like pull a book. -Yes. -Well they're not really meeting rooms. They're more like study rooms or like kind of quiet workrooms, but there's a room on the 5th floor called the Library which has been kind of a big focus of journalists who've written about like you know Google, New York this. You know they'd say really cool design sort of almost Steampunk sort of library. Looks like a traditional library, what appear to be old paintings on the wall but they're actually you know Steampunk paintings of like Darth Vader like wearing a suit and tie and things like that. -Nice. -But then in the back, there are these bookcases that rotate and you actually like it's not as much of a surprise anymore because people would, when they had friends visiting Google, they'd be like oh you gotta see the library, you gotta see the hidden rooms and they went like pushed the bookcase and they would disturb somebody so now there are signs that you can flip around and say like this is empty or like please do not disturb. -Oh, okay. -And it's a really cool setup though and it just makes the whole office, the whole atmosphere a way more playful. I mean there's another part of the office, there's a ladder going from the 4th floor to the 5th floor. It's great. -Huh. No fireman pole? -No. -I feel like they just need that. -I don't know. I feel like that would be like injury city. -Yes? -Yes. -Yes, I go. -Yes. -So you know now I wanted you to talk a little bit about what you actually did at Google because whenever I heard the title I'll be like that sounds important. -So I was in Google's business marketing department-- -Yes. -Which does all of Google's work with brands with advertisers, other things like that. -Right. -And when I was hired I was in charge of some of the long-form content that is part of Google's think hub. -Okay. Yes. -And if you go-- listeners, if you go to ThinkWithGoogle.com you can see how that's unfolded over the past couple of years. I helped them launched that. We did a printed publication at the time, but we found that actually people you know don't, people don't find it that much of a novelty to have print contents so now it's all digital. -Yes. -And then but anyways it's really cool stuff, a really interesting spin on marketing insights, and one thing that they actually published recently I had no idea that Dumb Ways to Die was actually an ad campaign. -Really? -Yes. It is an Australian public service announcement campaign. -Wait. Dumb Ways, that has nothing to do with the Darwin Awards, right? -No. -Okay. -Well, I don't know. Maybe it does. -So it sounds like the same. -If you go to ThinkWithGoogle.com, it's one of the more recent things they've written about. It shows what kind of awesome stuff Think With Google does. -Sure. -There is something about Dumb Ways to Die and how it was an ad agency created it for a public safety campaign. -Cool. -Yes. -And so then I also did, I did some work doing in marketing and industry partnerships for Google Hangouts-- -Oh, okay. Cool. -Which you're like getting you know getting hangouts incorporated into big industry conferences. -Yes. -At CES, the reason why I couldn't hang out with you, guys, is because I was running a video studio of our own with kind of we would bring people who are kind of on the ad side and have them talk about, have them do hangouts with their brands and stuff behind geared toward more of creative audience. So it was really fun. -Yes. -I missed writing though and I missed kind of being able to pick and choose my projects because obviously Google there one it was like tens of thousands of people. -Yes. -And so I'm doing my own thing now. -Right on. -Those guys say it's like man leaving Google. -Yes. It's hard. -Yes. -It's definitely hard because they treat you really, really well. -Sure. -It's a great company. -Yes. You had to like hand in your porcelain, your golden-- -I had to hands in my Google Glass. -Oh, man. That must have been really bittersweet. -It was pretty bittersweet. It was still early enough in the kind of Glass evolution. -Right. -That I hadn't had it in my possession for long enough and there's like some of the apps that you're hearing about now like we didn't have access to those yet, so it was not quite as noteworthy as it is now, but I mean it was funny and even like if you wore it around, it's like there hadn't been so much press in the mainstream about Glass yet so I think that people thought I was wearing like something to correct like a visual impairment-- -Right, right. -And stuff like that. And so it was like oh fancy monocle. -So were you allowed to talk about it when people asked you what that thing was on your face? -There were like things we were allowed to say and things we're not allowed to say, things that we were not allowed to say even if we were joking because they could be like really badly misconstrued. They were pretty careful about it because they didn't want people to like hear one thing and jump to conclusions. But yes, we were able to say that. You know it's a new project by Google called Glass, kind of a new way of interacting with your personal technology and it was fun to be a tester. -Yes. -There are no glass in Google Glass? -I don't know what the thing is actually made of. -Right. That can't be glass. Is it? Maybe. Maybe the switch or the-- -Maybe the little, like maybe it's some kind of glass. -Yes. Maybe where it's being projected. -Potentially, I'm not sure. -Possibly. So how did you get along with it? Did you like well you tried it on, what was that, Tuesday we had in the studio? What did you think of it? -So again like I mean the software was pretty limited when I got it. I could take pictures of my cat which was wonderful. -Important. -And I could also, the one thing that I found was very, very helpful was that you could ask it for directions. -Yes. -Because when you're like walking down the street and you realized, you know, crap, I'm in a neighborhood that I don't know that much about. -Right. -I need to get to this place. You could just say you know, "Okay, Glass, take me here." -Yes. -And that was if it had been better at recognizing my voice which I think voice recognition technology is something you personally have to get used to because this is not a Google thing like across the board there are a lot of these. -Right. You just have to know how to talk to it. -You just have to know how to talk to it. I never wore it in the shower. -What is that? So but is it waterproof I guess. -I don't think it is. Maybe. I had-- -It should be. -I mean I wore it while running once and you can wear it while running and it's relatively sweat-proof but I would not take it in the shower. -Yes. -I don't know. Maybe it's good with Photoshop it onto his face. -Yes. Meanwhile, have you freaking seen this video? This guy beating me to it. -Oh, the hockey guy, yes. -Son of a bitch. -Which one? -This guy already-- I've said I wanna wear these things playing ice hockey. -Oh. -You saw it. Everyone has seen this freaking video now. -Yes. Oh, I haven't seen it. -He's not even good. -Oh. -Oh. -Well, what's it like to walk around-- I mean you mentioned the directions thing. What's it like to walk around and have that screen? Do you focus on one at a time or you kind of looking at what real life in your peripheral vision? How does that work? -You're kind of looking up with one eye, and actually I thought the interface handled it very well with being able to you know keep a focus on what's actually happening in front of you, but then also to be able to kind of glance on the Glass. -Yes. -Yes. -I can't wait until the Bike Share program comes out this summer. -Oh my God. -And the next summer when Google Glass will come out and people use them both at the same time. There's gonna be a lot of deaths in New York too. -Oh my God. A lot of dead nerds. -Yes. -Dead cyclist nerds. -That's [unk] I think. -And possibly. All right. -Did you take this picture of your cat with Google Glass? I mean you wanted to show-- -No. I didn't. I wanted to make sure that-- -Little Caterpillar here. -Yes. Everyone, all the 404 listeners need to, the most important thing that's happened to me since I was last in the 404 was that I adopted Caterpillar. -Oh. -Caterpillar. -I did not take that picture with Glass. That is however a real parakeet sitting on her. -So are they-- is this like they have a relationship these two. -No, they actually don't really like each other very much because Caterpillar is scared of birds. -But you were able to capture that one moment. -That one moment. -Yes. -Before Caterpillar ate the-- -No. Caterpillar has killed maybe 1 bug. -Oh really? -She's practically a vegetarian. -I was gonna say the next photo in the series she just be like the same exact photo. -Her with some feathers in her mouth. -With some feathers in her mouth. That's what that should be. -Yes. She's not really very bloodthirsty. -No? Okay, that's good. -Yes. -Yes, you too with your cat. That's great. -Yes. -Having so many animals in your house just doesn't seem conducive for working at home though. -Oh. well I only have a cat. The bird is not mine. -Oh, okay. -She was visiting a friend, so-- -Oh, really? -I wouldn't have a pet bird. -I'm sorry, but is that like an insult to take you for a bird owner? -Yes. -Yes. Oh. -I don't know-- -Oh yes. -No offense to bird owners but I've been around birds and I think they're annoying. They're not particularly personable except the kinds that talk. I prefer that kinds that talk actually can, you know, can really, you know, relate to you. -Yes. -Yes. -I'm not a bird person. -Oh. I just yes. I mean and again sorry to anyone who owns one of these creatures, but it's just like why? -Yes. -Right. Why? Just get a freaking aquarium. -Yes. -You know what I mean? It's the same thing. -I'm also getting really tired of people posting bird photo like bird videos of their parakeets like covering songs on YouTube. Have you seen these? They're like oh that Nickelback song. -That sounds kind of awesome. -Michael Jackson songs. -My parakeet covering Nickelback sounds like something you'd have at like Guantanamo. -Yes. -Yes, yes. Exactly. Right? -It's bad. There's one that was-- who does that song Let the Bodies to the Floor. -Oh, that was like- -Was that Puddle, POD? -Puddle of Mudd? -POD. -Something like-- -No, no, no. It was like some really other weird band like a Drowning Dog. -There's a good video. Drowning Pool. -The Drowning Pool. Yes. -Okay. -We shouldn't know that. -We should not know that. -Yes. -That's like the Matt-- weird Matt Pinfield thing we have. Yes. I don't wanna see a bird doing that. -No. -Are you kidding me? -You can look it up on YouTube. -No way. -Oh, it's there. -Screw that. -I'm not gonna watch any of these. -So what's it like working from home? I mean you worked in so many-- -Yes. -I mean well it's funny because self-employment is like there are things that are just sort of like duh moments where you didn't realize it until you're actually in that situation like I'm gonna have to get a landline because my apartment has one corner of cell reception and it happens to be the same corner next to a window that borders an elementary school playground. I also potentially could just use Skype most of the time, just use it like a SkypeOut number. -Yes. -But at the same time it's like wow I have and freelancing is much more phone call based than working at a corporation because often you have remote lines and stuff. -Right. -And then also my first few days, I way, way, way, way overscheduled meetings. I've canceled so many meetings over the past 2 weeks. -You're learning a lot by yourself, huh? -Yes. Because I mean if all your meetings aren't in the same office, you have to take into account travel time, the fact that you and the other person with whom you're meeting may not be in total agreement over how long the meeting is going to be and things like that. And so just all sorts of and then like 2 nights ago I was on Twitter and I was just like guys project management software, I don't know the first place to start because you spend enough time at Google like you're using G Calendar, you're using Drive and you're using all this stuff. It's pretty much just all laid out for you and everybody uses the same stuff but I'm like I need a to-do list. I need project management software. I have no idea where to start. -Yes. -So-- -What am I doing? -Yes. Lots of big questions. I mean there have been books written about you know how to manage a freelance life and stuffing them like maybe those are written 5 years ago. I mean-- -Right. -Do these tools exist so-- -And there all of a sudden irrelevant. -Yes. I'm using Trello now. -Okay. -Which everyone highly recommends. I have to just make sure I actually put my tasks in it-- -Yes. -Which is the hard part. -Yes. I find that too like obviously I'm not involved in my own sort of project management though in the depth that you are, but I have a lot of crap I gotta do. -Yes. -And you wanna have a way to digitally organize all that. -Yes, absolutely. -I've been starting to use Keep a little bit. -Keep. Okay. -Google Keep. -Yes. -You know what that is of course. -Yes. -I was doing Astrid for a while, you know, Astrid Tasks. -I don't. -Another sort of like web-based Cloud sort of thing going on with your phone and what-not? -Yes. -Still haven't found something that I really dig though. -Yes. -I don't know. -Have you used TaskRabbit at all? One of my friends has used it. -I have. -It's like that crowd source service funding thing. -It's funny because I have used TaskRabbit. I actually hired somebody to come and like assemble a bike or something like that, because I just didn't wanna do it. Actually once another time I was meeting some people upstate. -Yes. -To go hiking and noticed that the Trailways bus schedule wasn't working out so I hired a TaskRabbit to drag me to Westchester. -Right. College kids, right? They should just rename it College Kids. -Yes. I mean well, but the funny thing is that I've had a couple of TaskRabbit tasks lately and I've had a tougher time filling them. -Yes. -And I don't know if that's because they're some like secret language-- -Yes. -Or like things that make a good TaskRabbit posting or not, but I have not used it recently but when I did use it kind of early on, it was you know, oh great. -Right on. -But yes. I think I was trying to like ship something recently and-- -No, do it. -They like to-- so you get somebody to drive a large object across town and get any takers. -Yes. -Let me know. I got a big rack on my bike. I could do that stuff for you. -Yes. He'll do it. -I'll give you a discount. -It was like a giant TV monitor though. -Yes. He's got a flower basket. -I could do that. -It's cool. It's fine. -Okay. -It doesn't have to work by the time it gets there right, because as long as it's there at the end of the time that's all that matters. -In one piece that's fine. -Yes. -That's how TaskRabbit works. -I wanna talk about real quick going back to Google and your time working there, you said that they didn't require you to switch to Android. -There's no company-wide policy saying that employees must use Android. I mean-- -That's kind of cool. -I think it's very cool. -Yes. -I mean I have heard about-- -A lot of respect for that. -People at certain other companies that manufacture mobile phone software where you can basically get fired for using the wrong software even if it's one of those companies that makes-- -Let's narrow that list. -An OS that glows. -Yes. -Yes. -Narrow that list down and try to, but the thing is, is that I think that I would've been strongly encouraged to use Android as my primary device if I had been on a team that relied upon, you know, knowing the latest thing-- -Sure. -Worked directly but I think even-- -It would make sense. -Even among engineers I didn't know anybody who had an iOS device unless they were, you know, working on Google apps for iOS but they would at least primarily use an Android but in kind of the business side. I have an Android. It was never my primary device and I like and respect that the company is not quite so like-- -That's very, very-- -Let's do this. It was very progressive of them. -Yes. I appreciate that. You wanna take the question from the chat room? -Okay. -This is not-- don't worry. We're not gonna grill you. -All right. -Beat Master wants to know what the vibe was inside Google. What was your day to day like? -Day to day, it was interesting because it's big and there are all kinds of workspaces around the office that aren't people's desks. -Yes. -And so you could kind of you know my team is extremely work-at-home friendly. Mostly we would you know if we didn't have any meetings we often would work from home except I mean if you wanna go to Google because there's free food. -Yes. -It felt internally it's extremely academic feeling. There are you know books everywhere. -You feel like you're in college. -And kind of learning-- you feel like you're in college except in college wasn't like one giant building. -Sure. -Really very friendly, very not-- it was interestingly it was not very, you know it was pretty quiet except on sort of like the business and sales side of things and most of that went on in Chelsea Market, so like if you were ever in that building, it would be much, much, much more intense, totally different feel there. -Yes. -But among kind of the more product and engineering side-- -Yes. -It would really chill. -Yes. -I mean like on the 10th floor there was a lounge where there was just a big video game setup and you can take a break, play some games, just really clearly designed to make people feel comfortable so that you know they're okay with long days and with working really hard at night. I thought it was funny because after I worked at Google, somebody joked to me like, "Oh, so you're gonna have to do real work now, right?" You know and I was like you think we don't work hard at Google? I was working harder than ever at my life. -Yes. -But yes. They try to make it a very comfortable working environment-- -Sure. -Because you are gonna be working long days. It's definitely hard work. -What was the most surprising thing there? Like what was one thing-- I'm sure you had an impression of what was it gonna be like going into the job. -Yes. -But throughout your 2 years there-- -Yes. -What were you sort of like taking aback by? -I was surprised about by the culture of email lists internally. -Okay. -Googlers can create Google Groups for just about anything. -Yes. -And they are a really vital part of company culture and they're like kind of how in a lot of ways things tick and things happen. And so there's like an internal exchange for like New York apartment lists and requests, and actually the reason why I have Caterpillar is because a Googler needed to give her up. And so there were just all kinds of you know lists for literally every interest group you could imagine. And it really, you know, it really adds a lot I think to the experience. You get to know other employees. There is a list of home brewers who would have beer club. They booked a conference room like every Wednesday after work hours-- -Sure. -And not like 9 in the morning. They would do beer tasting, would book a conference room for it. And I don't brew my own beer but I certainly appreciate people who do. And so I would sometimes you know show up with you know a bottle of like some fancy dogfish blend or something and be like hey guys, can I try your beer? So the very much kind of a culture of like getting to know other employees and contacts other than work. That was very cool and I thought very surprising. -It sounds like Google is kind of like a commune like within itself. -That's an interesting way to put it. Yes. -Right? Like I just watch Wicker Man recently so I'm like I have that theme in my head. -Oh, it's not like that. It's not like that. -I'm sure you're not burning things inside the office, but I mean just in terms of like the ecosystem, it sounds like everyone gets to know each other really well. -Yes and they kind of pioneered a lot of the sort of open office formats that you see in startups and stuff like that. -Yes. -You can also take your dog to work. There is sometimes I would see-- this was rare, but when it happened it was funny. You would see a conference room with just a dog running around in it or really like you know sleeping or something like that because somebody might bring a dog to work and then you have a meeting where they couldn't take the dog, and so they would have to book one conference room for the meeting and another conference room for the dog. -Wow. That's awesome. -And-- -Do you have the number for the HR person over at Google? -Yes, seriously. What? That would be awesome. -Google.com/jobs. -That would be great. -When will we have Wi-Fi in this office? -We do. -We do. I'm on it. -And Marty would be awesome here, man. -Yes. -You should bring him in. You think we can-- -Are dogs allowed in this building? -We're gonna find out. We're gonna find out. -I could bring Caterpillar. -I could also sneeze at it for 3-1/2 hours. -Usually, people, she doesn't shed very much because she loves being brushed. -Right. -So she's a pretty clean cat. -I'm kind of blown away, your relationship with this cat. -She's my spirit animal. -Yes. -She's my cat. -Yes. So that's the extent of your relationships these days? -That's yes. -Yes? Okay. -Well I'm thinking about there's this kitten who needs adoption. -Yes. -And she's really, really cute and I'll actually get a second cat and my friends are just like no. -I mean-- -Like then you're a cat lady. -The threshold-- -I think the threshold is 3 cats, not 2. I think 2 cats is like-- -I think it's 1. -1 cat and you're a cat lady? -Yes. No after a while. -Is this her? -That's her. -Oh my God, Crusher the kitten. -Look at that. -Look at that face. -It's so-- -Look at that. How can you-- -The cat just looks like-- -What am I doing here? -Yes. -Yes. -I don't know. No. Still not, still, still-- -Yes. -You know what I see there? -What? -I see a box of Kleenex. That's what I see right there. -What? -Because that's what's gonna happen because I just-- my eyes they-- -Yes, yes. -They puff up. It's terrible. -Yes. Well, you can have dogs on the air. -Yes, all right. -I was actually-- I tweeted today. I'm going to D.C. this weekend to go to one of my long-time close friend's engagement party, since I'm staying over in D.C. and I'm staying at a Kimpton Hotel and I was looking at the Kimpton website. They're a chain based out of San Francisco and they have an open pet policy. Any pet, any breed, any size, no questions asked. -Wow. -And so they haven't responded to my tweet yet, but I was like well what's the weirdest pet somebody has brought in like I mean they say that you can bring a cat, you can bring a dog, you can bring like a parrot. I mean I would think they would draw the line to a parrot because other guests would hear something like swaking. -Right. -And like you know rats and-- -Small-- -Yes. Well I wanna know if anybody's taken a miniature horse. -Yes. -You know like a pig or something. I think that like that would be just such a great story for them to be like you know the weirdest pets we've ever seen here so-- -Yes. There's a lot more like pig owners. Have you noticed that? Maybe just there's always been but the internet has shed some more light on these people. -I think that's from the internet. -Weird, huh? They are cute though the little bacon guy, like they're really cute. They are. They're the one animal I just sort of feel bad about eating a little bit because they're kind of cute. -But the ones by the time they get turned into bacon I don't think that actually-- -Yes. I know. They're like ugly and you know bitter. -Yes. -Or not and they kind of deserved it. That's what that is. So you're working on your own now. -Yes. -And you're doing some more writing right with your personal blog and stuff like that. -Yes. -And I welcome that because I always love reading your stuff. It's good stuff. -I like writing and I'm glad it's legible. -So if you want, go to Carol.tumblr.com. -Yes. I don't think I have a whole lot of written stuff up there just right now. Just mostly some pictures I've thrown around. -Yes. -Somebody was asking me a question earlier about swimming with sharks, but yes. And then I'm also, I'm doing some longer-form writing on Medium. -Yes. -And then like linking to it on Tumblr mostly because Medium is just a really good platform for that. -Yes. Can you talk a little bit on Medium because that's-- -Yes. Well I mean it's Evan Williams is the new thing. -Okay. -And a friend of mine works there and she said you know you should try doing more long-form writing on Medium. It's really, really intuitive for that and at first I was like oh, you know it's basically just like a blog client except structured a little differently, but it really is conducive to writing-- -Yes. -And it's turning into this great kind of community of people who love to write. -Right. -And they have a lot of entrepreneurs are using that instead of a personal blog because it's not structured in that sort of RSS format. People don't feel like they have to write all that regularly. It's like write when you feel like it. Your story goes into like a themed collection. I think one of the most interesting publishing startups in a long time. -So how did you get hooked up with it? How did you-- -Basically I knew some people who were I think there's still in-- are they open to everyone now? They may still be in some kind of beta-- -No. I think someone was telling me that there's still like-- -So okay. Yes. Somebody I know works there now. -Okay. -And so yes. That's where when I was like, "Oh, you know what, I wanna write about my feelings now that Old School just turned 10." -Right. -And I feel old. -Yes. -So that's far I went. -Cool. Right on. -Thank you. -Someone in the chat room was saying something about the first time they heard of the bacon explosion, it was through you. -Oh yes. I make those. It might have been. -Have you made it recently is what-- -I made one. My friend-- -But first, tell us what the hell it is. -Okay. So the bacon explosion is an internet classic and it's been around for a while. It is bacon wrapped in sausage wrapped in bacon and then glazed with barbeque sauce. -Why? -Because it exists. -No. The question is why not? -Why not. -Yes. -Why not. And I actually made one, my friend, Nathan, had a post-Thanksgiving party and he's really, really into cooking and you know he and his wife had a bunch of friends over. You know it was kind of like you know you've dealt with Thanksgiving with your family, you know come and hang out with your friends now, and I was just like you know you're cooking you know like goose and like you know rabbit tagine and all these fancy things. I'm gonna show up with a bacon explosion. -Yes. -So I did. -Huh. And you just killed everyone there. -So far I think everyone who went there is still alive. There was a cat who was eating a lot of it. -Oh. -Yes. -Do you have a photo of this? -You know what I think is really funny? I mean I do, but this is how we know we've been doing the show for way too long is look. I looked up Caroline McCarthy bacon explosion. You can switch to the screen. You've been on an episode of the 404 back in 2009 where we named the show title "Where We Eat A Bacon Explosion." -I mean that was like 3, that was like 4 years ago. -Do you want me to make one for you guys and I can bring it in we can eat it on the air. -I'd love to do that. -Okay. -Are you freaking kidding me? Of course. -I'm not kidding. We'll make it happen. -That'd be amazing. -Okay. -You're the best. -And Ariel just started eating meat again. -Yes. -You've been a long-time vegetarian. -We retired from being vegetarians. -Wow. -I'm ready for the bacon explosion. -He's back on the meat train. -Okay. -Yes. -Well, it can be like your version of a cake. We can put candles in there. -Oh, nice. That'd be awesome. I never had a celebration. -Little ears and the snout and-- -Oh. -Is that weird? Let's be honest for a second. Is that weird that we didn't remember that? -A little bit. -The bacon explosion? I mean I know that I've talked about bacon explosions before but-- -I mean you're talking 4 years ago. -4 years ago. -Yes. -Probably a thousand episodes. -Right. -I know. -Okay. So cut us some freaking slack. -I don't remember what we talked about yesterday, so that makes sense. -Right? So okay. -That's weird. -So I'm curious because we don't really-- we've never had anyone who has this perspective about us, right? -Yes. -You've been gone for 2 years. We hadn't you on 2 years. We just had, right? -You guys have not changed a bit. -So is that good or bad because I feel like we need a little bit of therapy right now. -I think that's a good thing. I mean people are still listening, right? -Yes. -There are people who are listening. -Yes. -Okay. -Something's paying the bills. -Something's-- -We're doing something right. -Yes. You are doing something right. I love your new logo, love your new intro. -Yes. -I think you got it going on. -Yes? -We have Ariel now. We had some other dude before. -Yes. -I forget his name. -Some other guy. -Right on. -A lot of people don't know this. Caroline McCarthy was a big part of our sort of fruition. -Yes. I wanna hear Caroline tell this story because I've heard you guys telling actually I wasn't here for the genesis of the 404. -No. You weren't. I think it was mostly we were all out to lunch or something. -Yes. -And I think-- -I'm gonna take your word for it. You clearly have a much better memory-- -Yes. -No. I think we were all and you were thinking about calling it Dudecast. -So who was it at this lunch? -And it was you and me and Randall and Wilson. -Yes. -And I think-- -Where were we? -I think-- we must have been at Chef 28. -Yes? -All right. We must have been. Where else did we ever go to lunch? -I guess. We just wanna get quick and dirty. -But I think what the deal was, was that there were some like kind of we had the new podcast studio. They were expanding programming. It was sort of like you know call for entries more or less. -Yes. -You know would CNET be launching or they could be launching new stuff, you know, what should it be. -Right. -So I think that's kind of how it happened. -Yes. I have this like-- I do have a very vivid memory of you basically being like, "You guys should record this. -Yes. -But leave me out of it." -Yes. -Yes. -So I remember that. -Why were you part of that? -We must have been having a conversation and you guys were just funny and I was like you guys sound like radio hosts. -Yes. -You guys should just do a show for the bros to you know to help the guys in their mom's basements, get some confidence and I'm kidding. -That was kind of true though. -This is like How I Met your Mother but for the 404. -Yes, exactly. And yes. You got that started. -Yes. It's tough. I don't know what it is. I don't know if my brain has subconsciously deleted it from my memory. It's just like you don't wanna remember this, don't you know. -Yes. -Don't go back there, but yes. And then I remember-- -I remember that there you definitely got some like nice phone calls from a jar. -I don't remember that. -I mean there were some early content. I think there was that whole incident where some things that you have on the air could be construed to encourage listeners to vandalize. -Really? Oh my God. -Yes. -You're talking about the DT thing? -Yes, the DT thing. -The deer trapping thing? -Oh. -That was with you. -I was here for that. -Yes, wasn't that right? -Okay. But I think that was still pretty early on. -It might have been. I think-- I don't know. Things have changed a lot and how long was this, 5 years almost. -Yes. -So yes. We couldn't watch that, Caroline just did wow like that quietly. -I am amazed you guys are still on the air. -Yes, us too. And it's funny because when CNET finds out about it-- -Yes. -It's gonna be great. It's gonna be a big deal. -Yes. -Like this is gonna blow up. I just have like a really good feeling about it for half a decade, it's just been like in my gut I'm just like oh-- -Yes. You guys-- -Don't know about that. -You guys are gonna be big someday. -This is gonna be hot. But no, you were also a big part in getting us some unbelievable guests in the beginning, and I don't think we ever got to publicly thank you for that. -Yes. -And I wanna do that-- -Oh, thank you. -Because we were interviewing like David Karp who's the founder of Tumblr. -Yes. -Who's now probably completely unaccessible. Through you we also got to interview Dennis Crowley. -Yes. -Oh right. -From Foursquare. -Yes. -Which is just like unbelievable. -Yes. -Yes. -And you know Foursquare was definitely on its way. -Yes. -But something like Tumblr was like that was so fresh and no one really had any idea of it. -Oh you guys the founder of Aviary as well. -Oh. -Yes. -And now Aviary is powering Twitter. -Yes. -Oh, wow. Yes. -Look what you did for us. -Well, they're cool people. -So that's what it was. That's why we wanted you to come back all these months and-- -Well, thank you. -And be like hey thanks, Caroline. -Thank you. I'm so flattered. -No, for sure. Absolutely. Right? -Yes. -So you should be kissing her feet. -I will do that. -They're really not steamy. -She's a runner. -I can see them. They look awesome. -She's a runner. They're super nasty. -No. Actually I went in, after I left Google I went to Tanzania for 3 weeks and was hiking and my toenails still haven't come back and fall. -All of them? -No. The 2 big ones. -Is that a thing? -Oh yes. -Wait. What do you mean come back? -They're not there? -They fell off? -They get so badly bruised that they just kind you know fall off. -Can I see? -Yes. -Oh my God. -You just don't show it on the air. -Would you like me to not for a while? -Oh, that's not too bad. -Yes. I mean there's like a bunch missing. -There's just like-- -That's a toe without a nail. -So it just looks like a thumb, the back of a thumb. That's odd, huh? -Oh, okay. -All right. I didn't-- -Well no. If you're hiking downhill your feet generally like hit up against the fronts of your boots, there's not really much you can do about it and then that's how it happens. -Wow. -Why? -I didn't know that. -That's why I don't go outside. -So you're very passionate about running? -Fairly. I was lazy this morning. I didn't go running. -Oh, God forbid. Well that's to be a part of your life. I mean-- -Pretty big. -Yes. I get it. I understand how it becomes like part of your routine. You have to do that. To me I don't know. I understand it but it does sort of you know take a lot out of you, right? -It does. It does, but I mean people, it's like I've said before it's like a religion like people will love it but they hate it but they keep doing it and they're just like this is my thing. -Yes. And you did write that nice piece after the bombing. -That was also on Medium. -And that was on Medium. -About being a runner. -Yes, we gotta link everyone to Caroline's Medium stories. -Yes. -That's good stuff. -I need to do more there now that I have more time to write. -I'm loving it. No. So it sounds like everything is going really well. -Life is good. -Life is good. -How about you, guys? -Yes. No, things are good. -Do you have any kids yet? -Oh my God. -Tough, man. -No. I don't. -Not to your knowledge. -Should I? Sure? Not to my knowledge. Not in the state of New Jersey or New York. -Well, you should bring you dog on the air. -I think that might be a thing. -Yes. -I might do it. -Yes. -You bring the dog. You bring the pig. -Okay. -I'll bring a cat. -I don't have a pig. -Well, you're gonna bring a dead pig. The ham, bacon. -Okay. That's the bacon explosion. -Yes. You bring the cooked pig. -I will bring a bacon explosion for Jeff's dog to eat. -Yes. -Oh my God. I don't know if he can handle that. You don't wanna be around him during that or after. I wanna talk real quick about some of the other things we got from the chat room. People wanna know where like so more about what it is specifically that you're doing now. I know you can't talk about everything. -I just haven't-- you'll hear more from me in probably the next week or two. I was like kind of finalize more things, and I have a client that I'm working with and then in the process of doing all the paperwork and once I have that done then I'll be able to talk about it, but mostly lot of to you sort of the industry speak like branded contents stuff, rebrands, fun stuff. -Stuff like that. -It's very fun. -All right. Well, the best of luck to you with everything. -Thank you. -Thank you so much for coming back. This has been fantastic. -Anytime. -Seriously. -Literally anytime. -I mean we really should be doing this more often. -Yes. -Yes. -All right. -Because then I'll bring a bacon explosion. -Do you promise? Well yes, this is just me selfishly wanting it. -Oh yes. -Last time I remember you introduced us to chocolate bacon. -Bacon tasting. -Yes. -We can do bacon tasting again. I'll get more gourmet bacon. -You don't have to tell me twice. -Okay. -Follow Caroline on Twitter. You probably already are. Jesus, lady, how many people you got following you these days? Do you feel-- is it weird, do you feel like you have this responsibility? -Not really a responsibility, but I'm just kind of like-- I mean a lot of them are mostly because still my Twitter username runs alongside all of my old CNET stories-- -Right. -And I'm just like oh, let's see what I'm gonna say now. -Yes. -This is probably not of interest to many of you at all. So yes. -Right on. So follow her on Twitter. It's @Carol, C-A-R-O-L. -Oh yes. -Easy enough. Follow her on Instagram and then go to the blog Carol.Tumblr.com. -Yes. -And make sure you read all the stuff on Medium. -I got like short usernames. -Yes. I know. -I didn't know you could have an @ sign, an ampersand. No, no. Ampersand is an and. I didn't know you could have an @ sign in your URL but you can on Medium because I'm looking at your page right now. -Yes. -Medium.com/@carol. Weird. -Yes. -Look at you, another pioneer move. -Yes. -So we have someone on Twitter explaining the secret to TaskRabbit. From a full-time TaskRabbit, he says the key to getting a task booked is being very detailed in the description and pricing it very well. -Oh, we some CNET on it too, LoSo. Just saying that. -Okay. -I didn't know that. Did you know he was a TaskRabbit guy? -Full-time TaskRabbit. Do you wear ears, LoSo? -Did you have them surgically attached? I feel like you must by then so you can stand out in the crowd. -Oh, yes. -Again, thanks for being here. -Thank you. -All right and we look forward to having you back. -I'll be back with bacon. -Right on, 866-404-CNET, that's the phone number to call. Leave a message and you can email us, the404@CNET.com. We're back on Monday with a brand new week of shows. Now that the dust has settled with this like epic week we've had, what a way to close it out with Caroline. -Yes. -And that's gonna do it for us. See you Monday. Have a great weekend. I'm Jeff Bakalar. -I'm Justin Yu. -I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez. -Thanks again to Caroline McCarthy and we'll see you soon. Take care, guys. -Later, gators.