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Buzz Out Loud Ep. 1582: The Dickensian drama of the music services worldOn this week's show, BOL special counsel Gil Cabrera joins us to break down the mobile apps privacy protections (meh), the Consumer Privacy Bill of Rights (unenforceable without Congress), and the "Do Not Track" button (weak). He's kind of a buzz kill....
Today is Thursday February 23 2012. Many receive a B -- I Bryant's off and I am Molly Wood look at a buzz out loud is cnet's podcast of indeterminate length it is episode 1582. -- -- so -- America super excited today. Because buzz out loud at General Counsel -- camera. Special counsel I may be more appropriate thing to note -- advisor legal advisor bachelors unless -- -- don't -- Internet. And I council and office equipment we really does work on your title -- -- chief whenever otherwise known as Gillis the in the chatroom I east joining us in studio once again at -- his expert legal opinion on all things tech well -- You are the expert here's a little -- -- -- -- -- all relative -- And at least some view we will be mad because that means we don't know the answer we don't even know that we stamped as is the good thing -- like. Cancer and you know a little -- get -- -- can also talk in circles like in the east last week. Man and man -- now has Rudolph well you know I -- I realized that this guy does a good guy but. Once that -- -- a hot brain is like all -- who is this robot that was implant like it was like a chip it was like someone. Flip the switch and also like dude. Not cool anymore in the well trained -- he really not only that they are there to see him off camera that he can know that while I still like -- to -- -- could be do you like one. And it's gonna I think using Leo wow but once you turned on it was like -- Adult I am thirty questions you -- like to confront us and he's also have a list of thirty plus -- -- annual Ascap -- you ask a question NASA -- a house ways I think what you weren't meant to ask. -- -- Let me ask a question if you don't let me ask him questions you know expected to meet your question let's make typical analogy that has not ended due -- the topic at hand and spilled out answer yes or no question and answer that question. Instead of answered this question -- Tara -- report about that. -- -- Anyways -- we were really not hating here so determined -- does things to come back the house and it couldn't be a more appropriate -- to have you back and actually because there is it's like privacy week. I mean every week in -- seems to be. And a copyright patent and intellectual property issues -- so it's that plus though there's a ton of sort of exploding privacy news this week which is really experiencing -- -- -- Bull doesn't discount of the top of the breaking news -- -- -- -- the whole legal irony is that we have gone. -- tech firms a large -- tech firms including Apple Google Microsoft and others. Have now agreed for privacy protection for their mobile apps they've agreed to require developers to inform users explicitly. About their data usage policy policies before they download the apps this is lead this is really being spearheaded in California first. But these policies will then be implemented across the board it is that obviously -- apps are available in a state or. Nationally and globally -- if they adhere to California's laws a request they'll also affect how their apps are attributed and that message goes across the board. You're welcome the world have to thank you we like to give your laws whenever possible -- this actually goes to it basically puts the California online privacy act. Global. Yes which is an amazing thing by agreement -- it was already -- the online privacy act are ready was one of the strongest consumer protection laws in the countries -- understand for disclosure purposes -- right and now it extends to app behavior as well. Now what we found though Google responded in -- -- I'm because that's exactly what we do and Android all the time. -- the potential problem here though is yes. We've all seen we've all installed app and it might well do this app want to do a lot of junk around -- like okay. Because we want -- a a lot of privacy advocates and command said. That's super that you now have you know globally. Tougher part travesty privacy restrictions and disclosure restrictions. Than anybody else but. The fact is these apps are still attempting to distill their deep ball behavior to try to collect as much information as possible so the fact that they're telling you. May not be enough what what really -- needs to happen is that they just need to dial back the collection. While and it's in and it's just disclosure in the disclosure is going to be big privacy. Policies again -- they -- dual link -- from that even their web site and then and -- almost complies with the law. And then the problem generally with privacy is enforcement there is no private you -- really know private enforcement that has teeth. On the good news about this is that the attorney general who it -- -- run for governor someday has a lot of incentive to enforce this very aggressively sell. Shall -- probably be looking after this pretty well but it's gonna be up to the AG's. The -- attorney general Kamal -- she's from originally from the Bay Area should if she's what they're -- is that developers -- from providers. That do not comply. With the -- can be prosecuted under. On the you know the company -- -- law competition competition -- false advertising while the penalties to be up to 500000 dollars per use of the app. In violation so she really wants to spearhead this and also uses -- kind of one of -- platforms -- This is what I pushed out here for the state of California for the people the world for the technology world. -- and former DA of severance it'd be in their best interest to. Potentially in the future if someone does actively now -- violate this kind of kind of bring it to the forefront in -- -- make a little brouhaha if someone does. Overtly violate this policy in the future testing we might see. That -- state attorneys generals are are incredibly powerful and it wasn't until Spitzer -- New York that really just showed everybody else just how powerful these positions were and ever since then they've just been flexing the muscles while more and their. It's -- -- they overseas so much areas along the top law enforcement -- the subpoena power they can do. You really don't want them up in your business and -- -- is if you if you break these laws I'm gonna be in your business and you don't want that. And a lot of these businesses are writing -- accurate total so I think she has an added incentive in terms of enforcement and it's a little bit easier frankly you know when she's looking right down at silicon -- -- like. I have my eyes on new I am right up the road and if you you know if you step -- -- -- I will be right there -- this and actually. Yeah and lot of these studios are on her advisory council to that that they -- -- general counsels are often on their little value in their advisory council so she talks all -- So what we -- how could we hope though that. That the existence of the laws could change the culture and data collection at the end -- I don't think -- I think I think it's gonna be the consumer. The consumer reaction and and this week although all these different articles they -- seeing about privacy -- people are starting to get concerned and over time I think that will build up but. I still think 90% of consumers don't care. Yeah it's -- they're gonna read the same -- not read all the fine print and just say okay but the fact that that exists okay fine if something bad goes something bad happens. -- is -- gonna be liable for it to start and the level of noise about privacy in a level of concern at least among that sort of small but vocal group of consumers has led to. President Obama finally officially unveiling. Or attempting to work with congress to enact. The consumer privacy bill of rights which will be unveiled tomorrow that's been something that's been in the works for a long time. Sending an -- -- has been talking at length about four connect to the duration of his time spent. Equipment except us -- the idea. I don't need to do to get to that. We we we and we decided that we kind of you asked a question about the bill of rights but then he started talking about something else for it -- -- -- Quite vividly but it's been in the works -- time is now finally going to be unveiled and I think that that is it's not the timing is no coincidence this is definitely reaching a boiling point. The I mean -- part of it's a agreement with the industry and that that'll go into effect pretty quickly on the part that's that's got some potential T is is the -- wrestling with the congress and that. As we know nothing is going -- congress so. That's I doubt it's gonna -- are now unfortunately. But by the agreements that the -- agreements and sales -- -- collect organ and again all these government agencies are becoming concerned about privacy and that's that's gonna raise some issues. Yet you guys kind of want -- break down at least it's very generically with consumer privacy bill of rights will cover. It'll give us the Internet users the right to control -- data is collected how our personal data is used and shared. Avoid having information collected in one context and used for another purpose right sometimes they might ask for like your birth date. Or maybe summit is some weird your demographics -- height or weight and then -- that with a database. That under this privacy bill of rights should happen you have control -- that I'm also have data held securely and to know who is accountable for the misuse of the data. So this is it it works on many levels that the thing about this is if we tie this into some of the privacy that we talked about in the previous story. Again it's going to come down to us just clicking that okay but are not sure I don't I'm I've got imagine. I don't know if I'd see a company give us granular control with in the app. Of what we want to give out an outlet safe FaceBook says okay we know that they take a -- -- information they we know that they match it to serve ads. We're not gonna see a check mark box -- use my information for. Ad serving for -- I just don't imagine that scene in that specific. This is what the consumer privacy bill writes allude to that we can control in that manner but if it's not -- that way -- it's either -- to use the service. Or not use the service and most of us are using the service. Well that's going to be the -- and mean and we're gonna it will be annoyed if we get fifteen different pop ups are clear -- each time we wanna use it or one global -- and that nobody's gonna wanna do that in their scheduler complaints. And at the toughest thing about. These areas generally is -- sometimes. And the temporary judge attended -- your small claims matters and one of them. One of the biggest issues that I often face is people choose to do something. And then the consequences of -- -- like and that's the hardest thing in our society right it's it's. You know you -- have to do that. And you did and and and that's what all these -- our -- -- down towards were all things sure you know -- -- -- -- -- -- -- are going he went. And -- -- bought. Have fun without. -- I think I've been struggling with this for awhile. Recently too because I've been thinking of myself as more than 90% in some cases like it and I and they I think it could the rent and Hillary at this week is like you know -- -- I like FaceBook. And any. -- -- but to me has a apparently a ton of potential problems in terms of privacy violations they've definitely done some things in terms of revealing. Information that I thought was private before that was kind of annoying but let's be honest it wasn't very valuable information. And nothing that FaceBook has done to me is any worse than what my bank is doing to me on any given day right FaceBook is not the company. That lost the database full of credit card in numbers. That caused my bank to turn off my credit card while I was traveling in New York City without notifying me that FaceBook doesn't do that crap it's a safe place -- put pictures my kids. Great I like it. You know let me. It's it's a very it's sort of an interesting conversation I think that we have to be having about how much we should care. Because they think some of this. That the code of contact. Conduct the voluntary -- compliance that's all gonna come from consumer pressure. There's no way these companies are going to comply to the fullest voluntarily -- isn't happy because they know -- jacket for their business and they know that. 90%. May mean in 91%. Don't care that much up or can't put their finger on a discernible. -- Right and they can stop the -- you know I use FaceBook. Basically just to share pictures of my kids -- and very generic things about life it's -- the private -- -- somewhat control was on their. And then -- different and and you can you can control these things through the interesting thing is when. These companies are getting it all these spheres and then they're able to you know like Google's privacy threat they're able to combine all that information if you use Google docs Gmail. You search on Google you and have a few and Google Voice mean they have a pretty good understanding of everything that's going on her life and that's that's where it becomes concerned. Yeah absolutely and that I think people don't know about right I mean I I think that it. I think you read a congressionally -- Privacy bill of rights would be important. That there would there could be. Up an and it's important because it addresses. Not the stuff about face -- upgrade it addresses the stuff about the company's -- and lose the giant databases of credit card information that they obtained from data brokers who are super shadowy companies that are collecting unbelievable amounts of information about you behind the scenes and nothing to do with. The really relatively minor stuff that path and -- public and Twitter are collecting about you that's serious information and in some cases being traded sold. An unprotected. Two our extreme detriment and that I think you know it's easy to get distracted about what really talking about privacy right that's the stuff that congress and actually -- issue. And that's the -- that right now there's. Almost no remedy for when they lose your credit card data when you lose your privacy data there's there's not a whole lot you can do about it and -- you get this free monitoring you know for your thing -- -- -- you get you get a -- disclosure that they -- -- -- -- -- -- -- about the extent -- -- that's that's where the problem and it. And -- like a nightmare by the way can be a return on that fraud protection in that a Indian -- -- like. My credit card it's declined I would say every 23 weeks because I have fraud protection turned on the minute thousands -- -- Work -- I don't know never -- Analyzed and nearly. -- thing. Where begun human who if anyone has -- -- the first thing that hasn't always been shot down drilling -- first thing people do it big -- they change. All gas is expensive for it as. I know I know if that's addressed those apparently learned -- to democratic and with -- and that it's because. At a gas station you can -- basically a dollar. Worth the purchase and it will let you know if the card -- it. So then that's never -- tries it first to make sure that parents. There you go anyway they sort of that insides and now I know -- that -- -- meanwhile and privacy kit web firms. Now that this sort of privacy thing is growing. And everybody so that freaked -- -- medical coalition of Internet giants including Google. Have agreed to at long last to support a do not track button to be embedded in most web browsers which is something -- have been resisting for more than a year. -- this is some -- same thing about this is that the new would do not -- by and it -- -- going to necessarily stop all the web tracking companies that are part of this have agreed to at least not v.s in the data about people's web browsing habits. And the serving customize ads but they have not agreed -- but the agreed not to use the data for data -- sorry for employment credit health insurance purposes so. The data that -- -- still can be used for some what they call market research. But not a thing that started -- anything personal and a that is -- -- development seat when I think a market research and product development. You need these things so it becomes very -- When when -- trying to define okay what -- -- like what can we not if they're saying it if they're saying okay I'm not gonna use you know where you live. And your age and your -- and whatever for your you know for any health -- ad serving that's fine but I am gonna use that information. To figure out the other people like you and how they're using this product this way the. Going to use it or guardian they're going to use a digital video out in the -- and is that -- that -- -- -- think the name of like sword. Up -- but I didn't they do not track button about two months until it basically stops nothing. Well there's a deal does fit everything into that I mean if you're -- it is. Market research and product dialogue meant to click that in our call for him an honest look at call them home console with a well I have all my numbers to tackle it's needs. The other thing that you guys. Candy right now I'm not sure you guys have checked out or not but others is actually really cool Trout plugin or extension called do not track plus. And what it actually does is you can -- on Firefox Chrome and safari yes it works on safari as well. But -- what it allowed to view is it's a little indicator on the top your browser. And it will prevent your web site you're at your activity from being sent out it's pretty scary as it shows. All the ad networks all the other hoax or -- you know tractors behind the scenes -- your information is going to it blocks all that activity. It still allows you to interact with FaceBook and Twitter but it just doesn't broadcast this stuff as freely as it normally does so I would. It's a free. Extension I would definitely I suggest you guys check that out because it's carried a list I want to CNN and the relate ten to twelve different things -- out -- normally. But without plug in it doesn't. Just to see that list is almost worth looking at that Oscar yet so it's called do not track lets you guys to check it out it's it's not a -- it's an actual tool that. That you might want to use. This in this case they do not track button would not block companies like FaceBook from tracking you when you're logged in through the like button on that there another giant -- -- -- it. It's apparently idea like -- all these larger Internet giants are dream to a do not track by an. Up to a certain degree that not a it's not a truly do not track -- We will. We -- -- if we -- app developers will take care of ourselves via the app developer and when they agree to it it's like they're they're in control of what they're agreeing to you know that's they're gonna limited at the wires so they can and that the problem. I. So -- so basically all this privacy stuff isn't it -- -- exactly -- you just have to can be deceptive and figure out with your self help how much you're willing to share and and then control and that's that's ultimately -- you have these are the ultimate control over. And our lawmakers need to solve the real problems instead of -- actually -- total. Like it's not about expect Pakistan. -- on the later today. That's the so basically when it comes to privacy we are doomed we are not -- -- assumed apparently ads or report team. Finished. Outs which does the Wall Street Journal describes. And describes it had eight. Quote -- all recent quarter. Crucial for full. Let's just say how brutal in the fourth quarter alone. Remember T-Mobile did not have -- -- foam that has helped drive sales and the numbers for a variety of other carriers. T-Mobile said in the fourth quarter T-Mobile USA lost 800 into 802000. Contract customers revenues dropped. 3.3 percent. From a quarter from the previous -- a year before. Companies the last major US care has -- well to announce its LTE plans. It's been questioned and whether they even had enough spectrum to be able to launch LTE -- you do know that in the AT&T deal. That fell through one of the concessions that they receive does. I can remember X amount billions of dollars in cash I can't remember how English media but also some roaming agreements and additional wireless spectrum it. Which you would think they'll use to wants LT plans but again. How much do they have how effective will be its T-Mobile this is not really the you'll one of the larger carriers. It doesn't look very -- it. And with no end in -- looks like there's no other company -- site that's government that wants to pick them up or scoop them up for their assets. -- and now I because Verizon can't buy them. So basically rent three networks anyway even those. -- the merger -- you know exactly US cellular as we did our that would sell well. In the bottom of the charges that -- make it easier for -- -- -- by the -- -- they'll be so small and virtually defunct that it won't create a monopoly and or the just acquire the the parts -- that. -- in I think -- ads seem to be such a matter for for the and his like way back when they had Catherine Zeta-Jones and hot everything's cool now they have their cute. For at spokesperson -- Honolulu production in your entered into a -- a sad. They're saying we're not we're not the and we don't have the iPhone what he really. Yeah I mean they definitely they have alone they have bought themselves while they have received a tiny bit of breathing room in terms of that money. The -- -- and the roaming agreements there is some possibility that if they have a really strong strategy. Sending it back. That they might start to be able to rebuild the back -- they actually in the in areas where they have service they good circus like. I would say that my -- -- tree house. This -- of the four Tivo -- products -- which is remarkable. And if they could really start if they you know. -- some bold -- flicks currently get rid of data caps and and keep pressing competitive and really play at some of those unique features like the fact that they can do though the Wi-Fi calling. On there is some possibility I think that they have got to get a move -- they don't need a character like this that they were like it anywhere. -- better and they were I mean there -- the -- they were the most because they had to they were the most innovative carrier with their plans. They had the phone that some of the hottest phones early on right they were willing to give those give those things a try to gal -- the first nexus phone. Was on their -- they've done a lot of things but now. You know. Everyone's move not everyone I don't want to see everyone a lot of people. Decided that their next phone was gonna -- an iPhone -- including people in this room. I don't but but that's -- -- Galileo and I'm not like they didn't -- it yet. I think it and I told them I got one of these acts that can well I was surprise us he went from iPhone four to four rats that I. I had -- upgrade available now when I was like well any -- anyways that but anyway they needed. They needed you'll even a lot more than become an -- they need a phone that people. I think they don't they don't have it has to be more than that there because we email we talk from Sprint's earnings that you lose money and I -- That the iPhone is -- network killer. So we can't just be that it's sort of like yeah I'll be they need to probably get up -- -- subscribers in the door. But then they've also got in -- -- in terms of plans may be some other hero devices because just the iPhone alone probably crush deployment they need -- they need a phone in addition -- to it -- you know they need at least that -- phone in addition to. Some of the things they've done in the past -- need to bring that back -- he can't. Honestly I don't yet I don't. That just stops of the bleeding I think I think that's a yes certain amount of -- to have the iPhone doesn't necessarily bring back the other thing -- -- -- its three billion a lot. For for a company to forbid network company like this actually you know rebuild infrastructure things like others that a drop in the bucket of what they need to actually spent but that's what I don't know I've never. How how how where how much does that take that seems like a lot but you know it's a huge networks of -- -- -- Today we're gonna take a break and reflect on their sentence -- -- let me -- and that's the murky -- directly -- Friendster and -- Because they were it and nobody wanted them to be saved except them and and now -- -- now Ehrlich. -- -- -- But I cannot let compilation for them all. And we're in big break when we come back we're gonna happen I'm calling them -- against the general Bob loves loves -- block. With guilt for rare on. And into -- not into it. -- Welcome back to buzz out loud everyone Brian Tong -- -- even beat him in the house. I hope that you're all gambling problem -- -- blog commitment at the -- off your honor to Bob -- law okay. L a BL a W thank you and you examine its progress of development there at the character -- problem line -- -- -- problem blah blah -- And -- -- -- Anyway and eventually you'll -- what I'm getting act starting wit. A letter. From Microsoft's. General Counsel. Which sounds a lot like a lot like one of those letters that Google's general counsel's I was writing it lake if it's an angry -- -- Entitled. Google. Please don't kill video on web. Like a bad you know when you read a brief commitment lawyer just takes -- too far over the engineers think reeling. Really that's -- cliche in this the other thing just loses the point an -- to -- -- trusting a lawyer a lawyer theoretically wrote this commitment. -- The other funny thing is that it's not a letter to Google it's a letter to Motorola. The Motorola mobility specifically. So what's been going -- and in -- okay so what happened this week is that Microsoft filed formal complaints. With the European Commission against Motorola mobility in Google over Smartphone patents Microsoft and a -- contends. That they had had this. Friend. Agreement isn't fair reasonable and non discriminatory as laser and other -- animal and non discriminatory agreement. That when it came to web streaming. And other types of patents that -- -- -- while I stuff video and -- -- -- patents that were essential for daily use -- watching video on the web. That that they would agree to license their patents to each other and of these fair reasonable and non discriminatory terms. Apple both Apple now and Microsoft alleged that Motorola mobility has not done that they've been asking for exorbitant rates. In terms of licensing basically a couple of patents that sounds like it's a fairly small number of patents widget in Mac that is referred to that the couple a painter patents. -- -- the crazy thing about this is the first -- underlines that just the huge problems with patents and all these people have like thirty or more patents each all of these companies. And you need a combination of all of those patents to GUHT six -- And so that and and so when you set up that standard you all agree all right since we all have a piece of this which we all have. To learn all means we're we're we're in that together we built this city together all of I don't -- -- -- yeah you -- deal electrical I did you know. This is this where it could help us that this patent law where to get to H 264 to work you have to cobble together sixty million patents mean that stack itself is part of the and you have to have all these weird and he ran -- license agreement and run cross licensing agreements -- the stuff. And then what in in the root as I understand in the EU the -- -- basically decide whether or not it's fair and reasonable -- A little more aggressive when it comes to their penny down decisions -- when it comes to technology -- -- which makes sense of why Microsoft would. You know file this over in the EU now one of things that you talk about like the that pricing right distant as the scale of all this. What what Motorola is essentially doing it is let's say you have like a thousand dollar laptop Motorola because this laptop has the ability to play -- -- explore. Motorola would like -- the many -- -- -- royalty of 22 dollars fifty cents for about. It's fifty patents that it owns on the video standard. Now they're available there's the thing is this is from a pool of over 2300. Pounds that is needed it's -- right there are available from a group of 49 companies. 49 companies that came to go -- ridiculous they wanted 22 dollar fifty cent. Royalty for every laptop sold full -- right now Matt Microsoft's patent royalty for that group is two cents. They want 2050. Right and they attack and I think the other differences that I think the Microsoft. Approaches is that there's a number of like -- that's two cents per unit to support cut and then where is Motorola's doing it under as a percentage so if you get a bigger laptop the more expensive me the price goes up -- -- -- it doesn't change anything in terms of which is -- Gillis 2250 is on like -- thousand dollars that gets you 2% -- exactly. It's it's insane the entire patent pool at the royalty maximum. Of twenty cents per unit. Microsoft is only eighteen cents. Thanks to the volume discounts Motorola mobility is asking for much more the reason that Microsoft addressed their letter. There are some areas in professional and not just what people do -- it's David Drummond and Google pioneered it and like a blog post. The blog -- letter to the angry -- but that's. It's like -- saying thank you David -- Its weird as -- -- -- as were the Steelers because it's so very casual lately that it's just there and it just doesn't you know like that doesn't Orleans and yet. You got you -- -- also unlike so. And solar and how can. And so apparently it will never work for Google so. That -- -- -- Microsoft marks the reason Microsoft addressed a letter to Google and Google has apparently said that with their acquisition of Motorola mobility no intention. Changing its pricing structure. No thank -- we do not want to play in your. -- -- To me Google -- because they you know they're they're late to the patent party generally -- -- it's clear they didn't quite get but every it was like right now but now they're like well that. -- -- by in this -- we happen at some -- week later to. Yet -- they get -- -- like super hard ball and they're going to break every day what's totally kids with -- the mean. Apple and every was picking on Google because they ever real accounts and Google that now rules that require those constant -- like -- That's right -- we got this -- sent to. It's a friend we weren't there when you agreed on your friendly I don't know with a friend or I don't know this for their free enemies we're not we're not their brand means -- -- -- -- -- -- for enemies -- -- -- enemies -- -- -- French -- That element of it is -- configuration of software patents now. With a question on. -- -- I think you don't you should make getting patents harder generally. Across the board -- -- I see this all the time where your having all these allegations over stupid old patents and that's -- these companies a fortune when. Innovation and competition will do that your family look at the fight between Apple and Google Android and Apple's is -- -- -- awful stuff. It's not exactly the same right it's not a copycat there's there's stuff that's the same but. Molly thinks Apple's winning that over right now because she likes that the Apple experts -- and that gets either you don't need to have the billions of dollars expended on the stuff. But you -- do you need to be able issue patents that you can reward innovation true innovation that's yours. And that's were tarred and what to do that you'd have to have this hugely beefed up -- office that noticed. So at the same time -- I don't remember when we got a four we have talked about some amount of my -- And he's area is a realist I remember when we had talked about some Microsoft's -- and how they're going after somebody's tablet companies. On the unit chimed in a chat though at the same times like they have it once the patent has been given to them they have every right to go -- is so. -- you kind of -- they need to make it more difficult to. Toward these patents so that -- Morse more specific or not as generics of things like this can happen the future because what you granted it. As a company if I'm trying to protect myself I'm going to go after them. Totally makes sense and the system is in large part set up so that the you know if you get -- granted and then you fight over the validity and infringement in court which cost a fortune. And so these big companies have a total is managed -- on it and these little companies that are trying to innovate are getting their butts kicked simply because they're trying to defend themselves. On and I've been on both that it had been on both sides of this -- -- -- you know I understand the relative asked rhetorically I think a fix to it would beat him. Take care of the patents on the front and more. Then the way we're doing -- now which is we're just letting the courts injuries figure out what's going on and I think that's crazy but it would take that but to do so you -- from adults -- look at the quick. Has rate you need them fast that's the issue needs a new computers that patina -- -- behind some of this does seem to be an infrastructure problem. Well at least it fund -- steaming on the enterprise throughout the infrastructure the people I mean the number of people involved in these patent agents are totally underwater and and the other thing about it that is brutal is. I litigate these things but I am not I'm not a member of the patent bar and a trawler and -- bring in the patent lawyer to explain what this means to me and I get to explain charger. And you read these things and I'm -- it's. -- Look at it like -- on manually does not make sense. You know and I mean I have the case involving we have machines which is -- You know -- water at all. Over surface not complicated you read the patent. -- -- -- -- -- -- You know I'm just and and the passwords like that its content nobody is not obvious to -- prepare its own. Did you needed you needed tool for the front and it's very look at a business right now and -- -- we need is not more like these lawyers are. Just a quick breaking news update before we move onto an -- legal story related to Motorola expert in IS seven -- -- can -- -- seven and -- for points out. Bloomberg is reporting that current Motorola mobility CEO Sanjay job. Will be. -- it really is out and we'll be replaced by Dennis Woodside. Who is a senior VP at Google now and it has been leading the transition of the two companies reporting directly to the other pains but they're gonna leave rural. -- -- I give up their negative integrated air they're not gonna have their own people go over the whole world Motorola's -- had company at -- look at -- -- analyst MB that. -- except for the life of the entire leadership it's calendars and remember it like we don't we don't control them but all of our people there and a we don't tell us to do -- make sense for instance is big news via. -- moving on and legal stories today. Interests you buy we talk about interest in LA there's a directory of about entrances I -- -- like to -- has -- there is like you know more -- definitely. -- and then went ahead and let. I don't I'm -- and I added. And so that well. I would really annoyed actually Minnesota started about a mile -- over the -- -- -- I had a story entitled interest uneasy relationship with copyright law what happens next and I literally I -- that -- and -- she. But has since according to -- on copyright. So I'm sure that other people we're gonna give -- but as far as I'm concerned me -- lessons art nice and Smart guy. But still. -- -- -- Anyway he points out the fairly obvious concern -- that VP tourist. Which is that what you're doing is just re posting a bunch of probably copyrighted pictures and somebody's probably not gonna like. Thanks a lot new. The good news about it is that they -- as I understand it -- it to China to be a bomber. Anymore and ultimately let me -- -- -- -- -- -- good news is that as I understand I haven't played much of it but. A lot of it is retail like pictures from retail sites and things like that right stuff you like and me wanna buy. And it's and generally they own those who the retailers on those pictures they are not gonna shut you down because they're they're gonna get an interest they have an interest in -- area. The problem is there's this huge issue out there and about lot of clients appalling -- when they have. For instance developer India -- -- website and the developer it's. Pictures that they found out in the Internet public office random office picture there and then they get this letter from some -- The northwest represented Getty images saying hey by the way that's -- image. And 83000 dollars in my class had no idea it doesn't matter popular others there's no intent required -- like that strict liability and so for those. Types of images there's a problem than they could use -- DN CA a bit -- to get away with that but I think. It again -- the big thrust of it is the retailers I doubt would go after them and that's the good news. The retailers and especially not given the fact that interests is apparently -- ate quietly changing. User links as we know -- to make them referral links that interest makes little money but so that it's a more direct final. To commerce so that's good news but it absolutely a lot of what is being posted here are blog photos. That may be professional photos that were lifted from Google images or professional photos post on -- -- -- You know it's it's it becomes kind of a complicated system -- interest. Right now I think it. Part of the problem is they didn't have a mechanism to deal as -- and it sounds like they don't need. Much of a mechanism they just need something specific copyright compliance office. Stated policy around 68 you know their compliance with -- CAC harbor laws which is what they're gonna rely on now. And hopefully. That will be enough they will probably Hampshire have to weather -- -- the problem is the resources there aren't any for the like -- read it somewhere that the that their CEO as their key -- officer -- They put on my. IMac currently copyright -- all this idea like -- startup. You know but. -- that they're gonna have to. Creates an infrastructure that the other thing is you have to get through these due to take honors as an instrument at times yet and that's the thing for a company -- that small -- knowledge they have a large staff to deal this. That procedure we seen it on YouTube it's not a very direct -- it goes through many steps and loops and so. If it's an image. Are they gonna be able to make this you know as friction was for them as possible -- -- -- But they're gonna run at the -- the going to complain about it again that's going to be -- the issue is if they've -- -- getting lawyers that are just coming after them and their brutal his whole offers a setup to send out these. That's my imaging over -- and it's like a flat fee. I take it down and give me 300 -- I feel like 90% of the stuff I -- is. Eighty to 90% of stuff I -- is retail pictures and that's why I think -- probably okay as long as -- Reinforced her certain mechanisms Idaho -- positive and get 11. Little positive. That goes all the way to establishing true fair use -- So that interest you live forever on the command and we get half. -- -- I just disappear or go well maybe I'll tell you could have been yes she's -- I -- you really want to announce that the problem is -- is that is that with copyright law you're you're drawn -- after attorneys' fees and sound nobody wants a fight that. The distance. Tammy all the happiness -- the Nintendo the last thing I want to be the -- -- can finally if that isn't true. -- fair use you have to be a big company with the big war chest -- and I don't think that's an interest. Mission. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The first copyright lawsuit comes after this and I'm just talking about your you have to put the -- that your idea. -- Here copier Tyler don't be represented I mean there. I haven't done is turned off the buy button on nearly 5000 Kindle titles from. A distributor called independent publishers group after I PG refused to -- -- too -- To Amazon's demand for better terms -- -- on continuing to ask for better pricing. On. Double tapping their feet -- And apparently they could not come to that maybe nightly and are now I've just been annoyed by -- pricing as publishers trying to find the right. The -- sweet spots and then go ahead and -- price them as more expensive than the print version. Which happens not infrequently -- that don't it and -- anywhere they couldn't come to an agreement Amazon pulled the -- -- I've tried that before with one of the publisher MacMillan. And it implements and had to give and it -- -- -- they're gonna sell their goods and or you're not. The and the good thing -- is from a from the publisher's standpoint is there's there's other. Places to sell your books still. And so Amazon can't just dictate pricing like Michael Wal-Mart just a lot of a lot of votes for their sheer volume you Tom and I get that Amazon from from the consumer standpoint because they're trying to drive down -- -- but. You know that finding that could -- Middleware that publishers make money and and the retailer can get it depressing -- it's hard to. I think competition is a good thing here and think other of the people ebooks available. -- the story the -- publishers have also been. Pretty much extremely supportive of IPG's decision -- hold their ground and tell them you'd there's still other places to get these books. And it. You know we don't see this a media but it it does give the note of a boost and you might in the future if -- are the -- -- about this. We know how lot of these retailers -- really try to squeeze blood from the stone to get the best as much of a margin. As they -- -- just they they try to sell on -- you're getting better distribution. Well if you have other platforms dollar they're like the net this they -- the -- because I like -- -- I'm going to -- alive. Bring on the -- and ask you know up there. And revitalize it. I get alive. And apparently -- -- -- ruling justice and get -- the other publishers -- over the excitedly and stay there and it's an Amazon figured out. What -- -- and that's the guerrilla marketing for her arsenal weren't there with their nimble and quick they'll they'll take advantage -- that -- -- -- -- -- And they -- we haven't here they have been amazing at picking up those marketing messages public yeah I wouldn't be as president and -- -- over the island. Interesting story from our own Greg cent of all an exclusive. Book. From inside Google. Managers saying that so far Google music. Not really -- an object which. Really not really -- -- much there. They -- supposedly it was gonna have the inside track to marketing music to all those 200 million Android users. But as is Google's wants perhaps you noticed that they. Utterly for -- to integrated in Android in any meaningful or useful that a cup of -- -- -- for a did anybody notice it because nothing changed on -- in your Android experience because -- music is not even a little bit integrated. After the killing Amazon MP3 is better integrated and under the group we can just see that talked to the these divisions -- -- -- talk to each other -- and at some people don't think it's amaze. They'll come in the next rev of the next LSI's -- a year later after it did look that they -- hoping that they get some traction. There somewhere around over 200 million activated Android phones you'd figure. There's obviously people now want to buying music and media content we've been complaining one of the number one things that android's issue uses. Building that media ecosystem they have the marketplace now. It has books music movies tons of content that really is on the level just you know just a tad bit behind Apple's with some exclusive content but it has everything you need. They need to integrate it better so people spend more on their marketplace. If the article even says her from grace at all if they dismissed and convert 10%. 10% twenty million users might use like. A buck or two every month yeah at least general Mac it would -- he had on it. They have I mean it. And -- it's not surprising that it hasn't taken up what I love is that they apparently had expectations. Up about it taking off when day. Did not integrated throughout the operating system did not advertise it in any way shape or form and did not market it on -- of their other services. Like so you just use it and the introduction -- be as of the time we thought was a little bit of -- -- the -- just like wow this feels a little bit. You know 2004 like post staff recommendations released. It -- didn't you know wasn't offering anything that was cooler love Africa -- ma. Just -- music created by computers -- -- -- They're also saying that they're in such a bubble mean they are ours and they are that in the plex is the -- bubble and it certainly felt like what it really is is a bunch of different -- -- -- inside the one big bubble. -- nobody is during the show. Right now Google music the service itself they don't have Warner Music Group as you know one of the big four labels are not onboard in their probably. Wondering to see what -- -- Google music has been able to get. Up to this point not enough for Warner Music to jump on board also Google managers -- according to the report has says. They've been talking a label executives to try to boost the service with more hardware. The Wall Street Journal two weeks ago reported that Google's working on building a wireless entertainment system. I don't think that's still good enough I went yeah I activated it yet allows an -- system that let you know for for their music service so I you know. We will we'll see but they -- -- -- lot more than just say hey we have should mean it's just I'm just saying it. Why is it they like the sad day because all I know I. Valley are already -- like brought them to the mood down hills brings -- -- her final cut in interest for -- turner did not. -- just get a -- area it's. Okay okay it says we're moving -- -- and it's also will see. Also really the music games those yet to be -- we don't know how these subscription services are playing out yet. People are still trying them out not sure if they're really going all in or not I haven't heard enough of my friends say I'm all about subscription models. You know yes it still he bushel figure and I'm kind of doing a little bit of everything. I -- -- try to -- just don't what I would love is. -- is what I would love with the a service that lets you -- let -- suggests music like pandora and then you can. -- buy it easily and all all in it like it if I -- we do that I think they would you know. I think island I have that's what I've looked like a music discovery. -- my term we have been linked to management's current -- -- I would like a combination. Of subscription. Recommendation. And a -- And -- -- well integrated and easy to use. It. But please -- blessings. The -- of them -- about the political lessons. I've been. -- -- I've been using have a little -- producer is better -- -- includes stereo. Does that and we're gonna get right out because we had to cool gadget story is the. Good thing and -- favorite. All right -- a Dickensian melodrama is that if the music service as well. This is why I'm -- -- online you guys you guys are you guys are into the online gaming service. They release a desktop product but now they release on live. Desktop plus what's amazing about this right if you're not familiar with it through your iPad device -- -- gonna support other IOS devices. You -- in the interact and pretty much dream a Windows 7 desktop. -- your iPad -- the beauty of this. Is not only will you be able to watch flash content from your iPad got some people like I don't wanna use a touch interface on Windows 7. The beauty of this also is that this is pretty much streaming like a video image to your iPad I've used it it's pretty killer it's connected to a one Gigabit. Ethernet connection all right so you could download files through this online environment and then access them. Somewhere else and boom you have your ballot that quit it's it really is you can watch flash video content from all the sites that is blocked on. On your iPad -- didn't seem right now the service is five dollars a month they do you have a free version that allows you just interact with. Word PowerPoint and excel but I've gotta tell you it's the first example where you're cited -- cloud computing in this idea. Of cloud streaming to computer. Really really my voice cracked and some exciting okay I really work effectively like I would do the demo about where -- on audio but it's I think it's definitely check -- now. When he shows -- -- -- -- -- that the industry is and why having a that's a -- cancer the only limitation is your home wireless access -- gonna wanna make sure that your wireless speeds are good enough for this kind of but I love the fact that it just says to any tablet you are my terminal yeah you know and -- -- all delivered device agnostic content. Who you are alive again like we just keep talking about how they're doing such cool things I'm really waiting for them to break -- -- isn't nearly point ultimately be -- year. No so super cool -- Also I am -- really excited about yet another Google project that they're not gonna follow through lined up but they say yeah. Latency. -- -- we've been burned before. Google's claim that they will be selling heads up display glasses by the end of the year. That will have lower as cameras built in and that will give you the ability -- you would you like. Navigation. Local services. Could be -- at the ABC heads up display call out to buy Google+ contacts just like in freedom. These -- like the little -- of the classes in that link that you -- in demon in freedom. You guys -- attributed some. That's a staff and where do we where do we Begin to make friends. Meet people. Interact with the world without -- -- Had to displace our -- Night I think it's kind of cool. I'm not gonna Wear these things -- they look like what do you look cool. Ontario but I have the highest -- I mean I'm pretty desperate you read and navigated its its -- head tilts so. We're just further down the road of technology making -- look crazy when walking down the street like before we start talking to each -- are Dell's commitment to adopt -- -- from theory and then later we're gonna be like. -- kind of service is little or no now they -- that they are they people have been told. Police at one blogger and five who said he's been to hold to its quick to learn -- -- adept at navigation becomes second nature and almost indistinguishable to outside users -- a little like a little a little. You're going to get lost if you're -- -- hands -- -- you're gonna get Lawson is virtual world where Nolan matters route you're going. No -- I don't know if I'm ever gonna get asked again. Because my master in my -- and -- and -- what I want and know what matters what what happens the art of -- And those sedan. You'll know where that ice -- Charles new is the. That's what others are like I did a lockdown to gloss over the right -- you are now warning you now -- Evernote and Evernote now I think that. As you get your phone out -- both -- -- what can. I dislike for the -- -- Molly like this to to -- mr. Alexander -- -- -- getting alerts we already have blue tools we're gonna have -- goggle global freaks. -- -- it's horrible. It's horrible -- would you pay 600 bucks more than. Success horrible 250 to 60215. -- -- has started to fifty is almost an impulse purchase responsive to that you may -- at 66. I don't know I'm excited I'm sorry ready I cannot wait to see you know what I. I thought I feel what -- What I hear you saying that they're not that into this. Random IP assignment I'm not brilliant entertainment talk about -- last week. That a glass. I was -- -- and still doesn't and I -- back to -- I feel like we're getting some ideas and -- feel like we're getting even more disconnected. And like I just it's it's sad to -- -- and I looked at a mine. -- like people. I would be scared about my addiction problem to think about. Because the -- and I get the dinner table that's valued at -- You don't like that that yet -- that -- that Verizon ads and and the data has for -- -- back back already that's pathetic. I mean it's cool but it's pathetic. Acts and is getting back to that world where the people nobody talks to me and street like it well that's your own -- But they didn't talk to me asked me where stuff is. I don't know people I haven't done. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- There are -- -- -- -- -- -- I don't know what I find -- and I find before we go into our into united it. In an -- you know obviously people in our shows live in different areas and that there's different regions of the US where if you kind of walk around with your head up and make eye contact. People sometimes response you. Not in -- exactly alas I rather not hear it but when that happens here it's amazing to me where I get like -- -- smile the someone sees me kind of walking and I'm already kind of might need to meet site all the songs on -- tennis line in the person's -- smiles back and like dude that's awesome and areas. -- the -- I had my eyes. Future ads I -- -- in virtual reality is an element within your -- fact that. It that is -- the contact like -- impossible. -- -- How quaint town that allow. Mission Impossible for okay communities we do -- -- a little disclosure our entire CNET team at CNET TV team took. Pretty much a half day off as a team building exercise watch and my four in IMAX. It was. It was ridiculous analyst sees this means that members Dubai Apollo I mean for I don't really saying I'm not -- -- I am with the. I came out -- and I -- -- release and other bodily fluid but I did nothing. Always takes you to use -- Let's say I love. That music does is allotment. He doesn't about it but I know you're not an island even out of -- Okay -- Right -- my time to shine Edmondson -- your silently chomping at the bit of a job. That's the only thing that it Ferrer. I think every guy -- criteria. I -- into it I'm not into. Here. Every little bit -- -- agreement from. -- welcome welcome. This is into it not into it when we quickly read out the recent tech product releases and decide whether or not we are simply into it are not into it let's get started number line. Okay don't want. -- is planning to use actual surrogate robot avatars for a military personnel. You'll be -- -- and remotely operated this is the real avatar. Flying dragons are not included Molly Wood are you into this and image of the word -- don't. -- pilgrim you'll argue that I'm into it right O'Brien -- one of the few people still love the movies instantly adds LA at the correct answer is yes that's important on the dramatic avatars let's not give James -- too much credit he thinks speaking world. So anyone crazy -- out there I -- a lot of them male. I am -- chaos. Outside the number two -- UK research project liquid dairy cows with the same sensor used in we Nintendo controllers. Through alert farmers by -- of their cows are getting sick or if they are in heat Hollywood are you decals texting. I'm not -- -- the low gill could -- this is years. Note Brian's audio into the -- in 2000 heat is still -- -- -- I am a pro account hopefully we'll get a little I don't own an Android support for the counts. But -- -- accounts he's been happy county is better than -- -- -- blow -- Don't -- make better. You become a 3-D and number variable. Number three researchers at Drexel university in Philadelphia are starting to create 3-D scans the fossils. To better study the motion of giant dinosaurs through small scale robotic -- models Molly Wood in it and I am into everything treaty printing related Elian filter brown yes I want one. Brian -- did you say dinosaurs that cigarettes. And they. Edit the correct answer intranet only -- -- approach dinosaurs and we scan them we can rebuild them get Jurassic Park on on the island of that -- You both -- and other Internet. All right we have -- done number four of researchers have recently showed off an iPhone friendly tongue drive system. Which uses a retainer embedded with sensors that track a tiny magnet attached to the user's -- Which allow you to control computers and devices Molly Wood -- -- -- surfing the web with your column. I entered into the obvious health benefits for those with limited mobility Brian talks with the but it -- could bring you resident. I wanna say yes but it's weaker yeah and his manager Brian Tong -- -- you like to link Apple products. This guy is my meant by -- -- not Brian Tong for no reason. Still it's that is the correct -- Where I wanted to illustrate the interim basis and I'm kinda grossed out -- this is to agree that makes -- that is that let go Saturday for people with special needs yet. On them re re winery. The new app called -- winery for the iPhone lets you quarter -- for delivery right to your front door. That is if you live in San Francisco it's forty dollars for three bottles and line in hit by -- messenger do you will bringing your email with Hollywood radio and -- I'm not into it because elevator opened and I hate -- like. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I'm Dallas the line into it that is incorrect answer I -- -- -- -- drink driving big problem in the US and -- to get trucking never have to leave your house I think -- -- -- -- moving on. The number. -- mr. fixed number 616. Being technologist. Has created a new Smart you're stressed that works with an Android -- -- improve your -- deep oral hygiene habits. It -- you while you brush your teeth and tracks your teeth brushing history -- where you went to tooth brushing apps. Parity comes from a toothbrush you do okay of glamor something William masonic okay uninsured or have masonic -- graph -- -- -- -- -- -- -- mighty -- -- -- that's pretty cancer as well now I'm not it's really an egg timers like fifty bucks my toothbrush is like nine. And -- seriously is -- sonic and last but not least. Numbers that it has -- -- Internet has given birth to the Jamie Lynn -- generates your generator. It's incredible Molly wait are you Linspire -- I am so inspired and I went out of the Oakland party that everybody. That -- -- -- name. I am listening Brian Tong -- this impasse -- The technology has brought us the Internet it's -- -- legal risk yeah so I'm glad I'm all into it I mean I knew instantly it I think David little. It's. -- Today. -- -- Let's look at some of the words that you do here we have -- you manner a coupon. And less and is any rental plan and -- UNAIDS. Link -- -- English. Encouragement. And -- -- -- Nevada -- -- and I -- -- -- -- -- and upload -- and your own it and -- -- music as you very much for the okay wait the track stop and now we -- the Hulu plus are okay and I'm not into. I know they -- and and it's meant big guy -- every. Did you know the fun is okay and I see some people like dude -- -- -- -- into not when you're in the studio you're. Is -- -- are so funny. That I remember when it first came -- I deleted and a block of on the anybody is that it now I'm just everybody's -- Internet and soul into it at a fixed -- absolutely that's a Ka. -- and emails real quick -- voicemail today so -- the latter of first line to them -- to -- -- moment Jim. The space engineer from remind Californians says. In reference to -- recent cellphone purchased from episode 1881. Sarcasm how wonderful it must be for -- to be -- the middle of the Android Apple fan boy war and sarcasm. Honestly adverse news which in the iPhone standard HTC inspire sympathize with Molly and love how smooth and reliable my HTC phone -- Nine months later and after two carrier delayed software updates. People talk about how the iPhone as your math and technology -- nearly a year for my bleeding edge Android phone to become equally reliable. By -- time a carrier and Marty plays the inspire with seven new Android phones and leading edge features that sort of work. The Android manufacturers -- too easy to push features. Over fully -- the technology and their spineless to carriers wishes as an engineer I still love my more capable Android phone from a current iPhone. But my fellow Android users need to accept that Apple's tightly controlled -- limited management of the iPhone does result in benefits that other people need or desire. Quit apologizing -- Android fan boys Molly and it's pretty clear that the iPhone is a better fit for you. It's not like the Android population is going to collapse with your decision. Yes he says I am an iMac a Dell laptop Mac mini Android on an iPod Touch and iPod nano I -- equipment -- in mind. I think. I think it should be a requirement that people whenever they -- as they can just list their technology the high price definitely what's in your pocket. What's what's in yellow pocket I think only way to live is sort of a happy -- Without without Gould comparable classes without trampling it aren't you can do that. Are you Leo our next email this comes -- us from our buddy Craig happen. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And after redeem always called on Apple winning and her purchase of a -- -- everything Hitler said has come true. I thought you guys might like to revisit -- spots. So we have this video clip this is from the buzz out loud. Going a week -- Hitler -- yet that we've seen if he was right and this was pretty used in September. Of 2011 so we're gonna jump to this little part to those who want to -- video -- in thinness witnesses. A little things. Yeah no -- -- I. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The next thing you know Molly Wood will be buying an iPhone. He hurt me any -- congress are -- -- -- -- Things. Bode well for the Donald -- manager and every thing. -- I next -- I see that happen immediately Waxman. Has some anyways we have the link in our show notes -- you guys wanna see the whole Hitler reacts. But now it's in taxi ride on the record let me let me let me leave at Domino's started -- Anticipated -- And then. And the most opt in email ever and think. Change the name once again I think he's teen's name to Apple out loud AOL now that I don't know if any of you are using anything but Apple products. Sent from Africa and. At its office staff and. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Well you know I think that's been a pretty much to do it for this show -- -- we do wanna make -- -- -- it's been fun we do wanna encourage you guys know we talked a lot about privacy but how does this affect you guys what are your thoughts on all these privacy rules consumer bill of rights. Please email us we'll talk about double. Lets you were thought to be heard -- -- -- -- at cnet.com also are shown a deal all that cnet.com. And you can call us. When -- and it's excellent 6638. Is our phone number that's both CNET buzz at cnet.com is or email address -- -- you. So much PRD's nine and I would like we like -- I remember that. And they're not. Thank -- -- for joining us -- ST I'll have enough still could prayer on Twitter you wanna follow your legal musings. Thanks for amiga and -- lots of fun doesn't -- know -- come here for workings of the part of look forward to some folks -- -- if you didn't say that do we punch in the face that you need it. That's true I get up that is correct redundant equipment to -- I think this idea. A regular. Written -- And it -- honor I guess we'll see you next week have a lovely week all right see you guys I --