The fully integrated smart home is coming: CNET's CES panelSmart appliances and connected systems are turning up in new, exciting contexts at CES. Smart thinkers from Nest, Revolve, GE, Belkin, and Philips discuss with CNET editors the world of smart ovens, refrigerators, thermostats, and everything in between....
-[unk]-- right topic for this panel at this show because I am absolutely amazed at how much CES this year is about the Smart Home and the Connected Home. And it is really at top of mind for so many people here, I am very excited about this panel. We're gonna-- we're gonna spend some time talking about the concepts of the Connected Home. We're gonna talk about all the systems that are coming online, all the creativity going on and thinking about how to make the home a more seamless experience, and how all of these devices that we're just starting to imagine are just becoming a reality, they're gonna talk to each other. It's a really interesting set of topics. And I am gonna take a minute here with each of the panelist, we have a number of panelist and they're all really inspiring to introduce themselves and then we'll dive right in. We will leave 15 minutes at the end for questions, so if you have a question, just [unk] it to the end and we'll make sure that we do our very best to get to you. We have a lot of great things to talk about, so with that, Ohad-- -Good morning. My name is-- Good morning. My name is Ohad Zeira. I am the founder [unk]-- for the WeMo, WeMo solution as part of Belkin. -Hi, I'm Matt Rogers, co-founder of Nest. We make Nest Learning Thermostat, and the [unk]-- -Good morning. Good morning. My name is John Ouseph. I'm with GE Appliances part of the Connected Home. -Hi. I'm Mike Soucie, co-founder of Revolv. We did a smart home automation solution with the Hub and an app to kind of aggregate all the early devices and the new devices that are [unk]-- -I'm George Yianni. I'm one of the management support of [unk]-- -Hi. Rich Brown. I'm the Editor of CNET. I'm from the appliance reviewers and smart-home reviewers [unk]-- -Thank you, guys. All right. So, I have been working with Rich for years, and Rich, like you just said writes our own reviews for some of the [unk] in Kentucky. When we were talking about this panel a few weeks ago, Rich said something which I thought was really smart, he said, this feels like the Connected Home concept and the place we are now with a lot of new products, a lot of different standards feels like how the beginning of the computer age felt really when you were still trying to sort out what's the promise of all these machines, how are they gonna talk to each other, how are we going to make sure that they can talk to each other easily. It was a really exciting time, we went through that. And then we went through a similar evolution at the beginning of the internet age and connecting computers with the internet. That's where we are now at the Connected Home, we are still experiencing, you know, consumers who don't understand the promise of the Connected Home even, and then more sophisticated consumers who understand it, but don't really know where it's going at. So, this is-- it's just such a great moment. And with that promise with PCs, you know, power from them, touching that felt so exciting and then it all came together. What is the promise of the smart home now? And I'd kind of like to hear a little bit from each of you. Let's start with you Matt. -Sure. So, the, I mean, smart home in the sense today is really a kind of combination a bunch of other things, and today is specially [unk]-- I'd say there's been a promise of, you know, living you with ease and the-- -[unk]-- -foundation, having your home-- oh sorry-- I talked aloud, having your home take care of you as opposed to having to, basing with the IT standard at home. But this again, this is really early days. I hope that, you know, as all of us kind of mature our products, build more great things that you start to see more, you know, let's say if I was-- you start to see, you know, we should build products and didn't [unk]-- it's still in [unk]. -Sure. How about you Mike? I'm curious because your positions is one that rider company with the-- with the goal of bringing all of this together. What's your perspective on it? -Yeah. I think we're looking at this Wild West right, we're seeing a lot of point products, a lot of great, individual point products on the marketplace that can enhance our life in the Connected Home experience. And that's where it starts. But then there's an expectation, just like our digital world as going back [unk]-- this idea of how can things be connected into one, and then that was part of consumer value and so, you know, that's what we've been focusing on, is how we can create a unified experience and then add automation around multiple device [unk]-- any fashions. And then potentially really about what conscious soul, because that is kind of alluding to you, it's like where your home reacts to you in conscious of what you're actually doing, and that's really the promise that I think we'll get to this. It's Wild West now in here, you know, step by step. -Great. John how about you, from GE's perspective, a tiny company? -Yeah [unk]-- -You know, what's the promise that you see of it that's really established [unk]? -I think everyone in [unk]-- the promise is, you know, a home mass, really enhances your behavior, right. It's predictive. It's responsive to your needs, that's really the end goal. But we're-- like everybody was saying, where we are today is just, you know, based on technology, you know, everyone is doing their thing, building their infrastructure and the next step is, you know, more on these features and you build-in the two appliances or two products from the same company, then the partners company. But then, you know, for it to really take off, there has to be standard, or there has to be ease of use for the consumer-- right click, plug and play, [unk]-- right, you get a device and you plug it in that's connected, right? And you can use whatever interfaces you want, whatever apps you want, but it's really make it where you want it to be and make it responsive to your needs, that's the goal, that's [unk]. -Great. And George, what about from your perspective? You have a special perspective because you've been of a pioneer on the lighting category? -So, I think one extra thing here, we-- how do you [unk]-- its flexibility. Nowadays, every one is getting spaces where they're using their environment beneath that helps us to usually allow them to focus and to relax at the place of entertainment, and then you think. And I think one of the promises of the Connected Home is really allowing your home to be more flexible, to be reactive, and also, you know, changing the way which you facilitate what you're doing. I think that's a really exciting thing that was [unk], to see the Connected Home as well, and to see more and more apps and more of the items start to be coming in the nation as it goes here for the next few years. -Great. Ohad, what do you think? You got some new devices that's something fun at the show, like the Connected [unk]? -Yeah. So, you know, from my point of view and I agree with everybody that's coming together, but you ask what the question was how do we get consumer, how do we get more mass audience to start engaging with the devices. And-- but my point of view, we don't wake up in the morning and say, "I feel really disconnected from my house. I really wanna go and get a Connected Home," but everybody does have real consumer jobs in their life and in the households that they want to solve, and so it's really to target those specific activities, those specific benefits and probably should create a experience to those consumers where they gonna get into that world that can add bits and pieces, that's when it all come together. -So, where have you [unk]-- move on to my next question which is how do you make this concept approachable and can you tell me, Ohad, what's the-- what's the item or business proposal, or the concept that you guys had found to be the most engaging when it's where the average consumers so far? -Well, in the [unk] point of view, you know, again not wanting to connect your house, however, we all carry one of these great, and-- for a general consumer, this is, you know, [unk]-- do a lot of things. This is one of the few areas where people actually go online into which they'll say, "What else can I do? What else can I control? How do I extend the experience from here?" And that's what's [unk]-- powerful word to say, well, hey now your house is the extension of [unk]. -So, I think, we say we do the design, so there's a lot of great technology to buy for your home, you know, throughout your life, but a lot is not very approachable and a lot of consumer, whether you are-- that you're techie or you just don't understand how it works. So, we try to think of that first word, where each maybe goes out like really obvious and design it well. Again, like your iPhone experience that you have in your hand, it's an easy transition to your home. You are used to this great experience in the palm of your hand, why shouldn't your home be the same way. -I think let's have a moment, you know, like in the Q business which has been growing popular in sometime into our modern family and so it was more of a-- I don't know if we got-- I don't know if we got time for [unk]-- I mean there is some exciting about lighting, and in this-- in this mass market show. What is the moment when consumers are like, "Oh, that's lean, I want to be able to control my light bulb? [unk]-- -So, I think the thing that you really see with the-- with the Q and having controllable lights inside your house is it's something that you can experience it, you get it. If you can put someone in a room, just get it up with how to change your light bulbs that you can change in your smartphone, and you press wall button and the whole feeling of the room changes, then you got it. They could understand how they can use this to use [unk]-- flexible, and to really enhance how they're living. Now the real challenge, which I think we've all have is how we can get that experience-- that feeling across to a huge number of people, and it's not practical to get everyone to come in the stage and see how really it's in the specs. So the real challenge is finding ways of explaining and to communicating that experience towards people to really help them see why they do want more smarts inside their home. -So, you mean, Rich. Rich sees how arrears react every single day to these topics. I know from reading comments and talking to consumers that sometimes they get it, sometimes they fight it. What is the-- what is-- what do you think is the kind of concept that gets them most excited? -Simple things. Things that are-- things that are plugged [unk], they plug in [unk] like it has a very obvious utility to them. The design looks great, color of the device look great because they draw people and people respond, even if there's an immediate utility there like you say they can get, but so far, I think, things that are-- which are very easy for consumers to understand, those are the things that really drawn to [unk]-- DC issue, the DC complexities, etcetera. -And sort of correlated to that, would people have the hardest time with? Is there-- is there a-- is it a kind of device that people have been quizzical about, still don't quite understand? -[unk]-- actually, the-- some of the large appliances we haven't really had seen a Home Run there. Using a few-- a few good ideas, but nothing that's really said, "Yes, I get this." -That's interesting. So, what's-- what is-- what is gonna bring this together the way that people will understand? Is there a need for a standard or a single standard to connect all of these devices? I see a lot of nodding, who wants to go first? Matt [unk]-- oh, Mike. -Yeah, sure. -All right. -It's interesting. The standards are necessary for sure, but I think they move slowly because it's a body, it's an organization and you have different folks contributing to that. And it actually lags in innovative features. So I think what happens is companies like us adapting quickly and innovating really quickly on our point in new devices as it needs to the consumer benefit, but what happens is you clearly see as the islands come together, there needs to be a standard, but the problem is each one of our end point devices, you know, has different energy consumptions, different uses and, you know, it's not-- it's not an easy problem to solve. It's necessary, but just like Cisco 20 years ago, before ethernet was really the prevailing, you know, the internet protocol there was [unk], T-Base 10, T-Base 100, you know, and they build one single lots to unify them until a standard, that don't really come out, and that's kind of the Revolv's approach. We have a set of radios to talk everything out there until one thing becomes the standard, so-- -Matt. -So, you know, but one thing this concept is really smart, it's kind of, you know, there's a lot of right quotations, [unk]-- interest is a nightmare. The Wild West is like a [unk], but that's like-standards, they take a lot of time and in fact, they'll be [unk] release status because there are things there, whether you kept it. It's really hard as a device thing connector or anything what you do, so I think a lot of this is gonna really come through a group of mass and this is a lot like Wi-Fi, the [unk] internet 25 years ago. There's a lot of different ways to connect devices which everyone has the most momentum, should be able to bring others with them. So, I think, again, there's a lot of work, this is not-- this is not a problem. This is totally [unk], it's like, again this was-- years from now, disaster actually, but it's still very early, you know, there's not a lot of popular marketplaces. I guess we're totally okay. That's it. There's a lot of things to happen. -For sure. And I wonder, you know, what we're seeing right now is one app for every device, I mean you've seen Samsung and LG kind of try to create their own platforms to try to bring all of their devices together and pull this all into one app. How long do you think we have our way to this as we are from having a single interface to control them all? Is that the way we're gonna go or we're gonna end up really with, you know, 27 different apps and you got your [unk] app and [unk] app, and your [unk] app, how is that gonna come together? Do you have 2 cents for that? -Yes. It's probably on that one. I see some of a higher approach because certainly there's gonna be instances where having everything together, everything ties and sync it up, it is gonna be the most advantageous. You have the example of Slow Cooker, in case with the Slow Cooker you find looking to add rich content like recipes. If I'm looking to the very device specific activities, we always want to engage with that in a much more branded, unified experience way. The same goes true for baby monitors, you can see all of the list of things that will be aggregated, will be consolidated, but also [unk]--, and you go around and look at the different app experiences that's built from, you know, costless panel. Each one is really also focusing on slightly different target and definitely a different experience that is going to tweak their [unk] that's really meant for that consumer. So I really don't see a huge problem and maybe again in 5 years that could be an issue with people choosing different experiences to engage with in different parts of their day, or different parts of their life. -I think one of the key things here is actually connected products something which is relatable to the consumers. It's hard. It's hard to make, you know, these devices easy for people to use. And so you have to do specific things that people interact with the products. I think the key thing and why we'll see some of the apps which bring things together. It's not okay that you have to use multiple apps to achieve one thing, [unk] is to make your home ready for a party, to not making-- you have to go to those important apps to make that happen. And so there you need some things where multiple devices from different companies with an [unk] systems have to come together and [unk] from one thing, meaning creating that scenario is something that could happen overtime. When you actually want to make it happen, they have to be able to just do it. It's not now okay if you go to different apps. I think that's something that needs to happen and that's where you'll see, you know, apps which can control all sort of things. -Yeah, I think you can already see that, you know, in the marketplace today, right? Everyone came out with their own individual connected device [unk]-- and if that's the only device that you have, that's fine. It doesn't matter when it doesn't connect to any other device at home. By then, you get your second device then it becomes, oh so I have this showing of one app that controls both of these because they're related, all right? So, that's really how it's going to evolve, you know, there'll be a third party app makers that will specialize-- I may not find it interesting looking out [unk], but there'll be a third party app developer that says, yeah, I do. I see that either use in the home [unk]-- devices to connect as well and create an app that uses this appliance and this type of old manufacturer, then I have created a new app. So, it'll evolve, and I see that today very [unk], that's the next thing on the horizon that everybody, third party app developers with many things that some people may think are destroying other people who think, you know, that's the-- that's the value that I-- that I want, so I'll buy this app or download this app as most people would say. -I'll just chime in here because really what we're talking about is what we're trying to do as our brand promises to unify devices made by many different manufacturers and then be able to automate based on our consumer's lifestyle, whether they leave the house. And it should really in this day and age, well at least in integrally adaptive world, you should be able to, you know, have your doors locked, your thermostat turned down and your lights off, all the time that you have been consciously thinking about doing that. And that's kind of, again, it's evolutionary, you have the point products that are really good at what they're doing, but then like a story [unk]-- where it's compelling and then to be able to automate around your lifestyle especially with the phone in your pocket. We don't have to practically hit a button to have these devices on, I mean-- and that's, again it's evolutionary and that's kind of where, you know, we're dependent on these guys with awesome point products for us to getting unified. But, that's the next step and then your conscious [unk]-- tried out [unk], yeah, a learning thermostat really understanding through simple interactions, it's really a promise of these devices working around you without you really having to interact with them. -So, what you're saying is no app at all? Basically, there's one that's all gonna fit, you're [unk], this is just happening around you. -Yeah. So, exactly-- so, we actually spend a lot of times talking about this. In terms of the [unk]-- with our partners and today I don't-- we don't have a big problem, like there's not a lot of smart devices. So, there's a need for a lot of [unk]-- except for things like when we'll be back and how's your job makes a little sense. It kind of reminds me back in the day when we just had this internet portals like [unk], it would serve all of your internet needs, that doesn't happen anymore, there's a lot of best fix that you wanna go to pull over-- exactly your need whether Gmail or [unk]-- if you wanna get introduced to somewhere else. We don't go to one-stop shop anymore. That said, there is all the other services that are clearly not here and now we have to go back where you don't need to actually check your calendar and so you get a [unk]-- at work. Now, that experience hasn't [unk] to the home yet, but I think in the next few years it will. -How much is location sensing a part of that? You know, I have a Nest Thermostat and I was-- I love the fact that I could turn it on when coming back from a trip, and from afar, to make sure my house is warm by I have never remember to do it, right, and never, I mean, and I always walking in, "God, I forgot again." When is that coming to us? -Yes. So, a part of this [unk]-- corporation, so we spend a lot of time talking about this one too, and we're frustrated because we want to do this as well, but not everyone has a smartphone, like kids. They don't have smartphones yet. So, how do you build an experience that applies to everyone in the home, you know, parents, children, elderly and so it has to be [unk]-as far as [unk]-- I [unk] our solution of this problem, it's not the solution that we have today. -Is this a solution-- is this the kind of topic-- I've been looking at this from the Philip's perspective. -So, this is something that we actually rolled out [unk] of data around to within less than a year ago including the idea of fencing. So, the way this works for us is basically you design the lights beneath your house so a combination of light sets into different bulbs, and that's a personal thing, and what we would like to do is to have that automatically get called as we're around homes and as well as we're leaving. It had a few interesting side effects towards it. One of the things that came out is actually people start using it as an early warning when someone is coming out and they won't have their own personal light setting or coming [unk]-- "Okay, they'll be home in a minute, I better stop what I'm doing now." But it's pretty cool technology and people really, you know, like having their home react to them automatically to, you know-- how many times have you-- when you come home again [unk], "Damn, I forgot to turn the lights on again." And this is something now that's happening automatically having this, you know, smartphones in your pocket which can actually determine, you know, where you are. It's great piece of technology to use to make our home more smart and more responsive to your need [unk]-- -It's probably where wearable's come in to this discussion I think. If your kid doesn't have a smartphone, if they have a smart bracelet or smart-- some kind of smart accessory to kind of fills that gap, right? -Yep. I mean, I'm curious about the thinking that you guys are doing about sort of sensors outside the core product. These are featured which a connected home device has its own set of sensors but then, a secondary set of sensors outside, you know, outside the phone? -Yeah. I don't know that there's even clean separation between those two worlds. The [unk] is a-- is a consumer networking brand as well as Nexus, it's part of our team, we look at that as one giant sensor for what's going on within the home, where the flows of the activity and how intelligence or smartness can be built using those. So, I think if you [unk]-- together, some of those connections that is not obvious to us yet, and will become [unk]-- sudden increase forward and becomes mainstream. -So, this brings us back to another kind of wonky question, but I think it's a really important one, at what level should that in term of operability happen? Does it happen at the router level? Does it happen in the Cloud? There are a lot of inhibitions for this but, you know, from Belkin perspective, what do you think? -Well, I think from-- all of them would probably happen at the same time, and it's part of the need to have a real seamless interaction. Cloud's one of the easiest, I think, the most challenging user experience perspective. A lot of things had happened on [unk]-- well, we're spending a lot of time thinking about this, not as much-- which protocol or which layer we're gonna do the integration, but how do those integrations occur, right? We talked about the promise being about real intelligence and building this rules that kind of work together. Well, how do-- how do the rules sync off? What's the language for doing that? How do this [unk] become more reciprocal, right? So, it's not-- you know, if we just go to an aggregated model, then all of a sudden we went from, well, to this improvement from 20 items of functionality, it's now 3 or 4 different apps functionality that still don't speak to each other. So, what does that [unk] the language, haven't talked to each other in that way. -I think those are like when we're [unk]-- matters last year. So, consumers don't care if they have [unk]-- they just don't know and they really don't care. What matters is what functionality they get out of it. George and I we're seeing that, I guess we're talking [unk]-- What are the cool things you get when you have these devices in your house and it should matter how they communicate [unk]-- the technology behind it, it's-- consumers do not worry about it. If they have to worry about it, then we fail. -Yeah, at the very least they have to worry about-- they have to worry about their home network anyway, and what I often see is some [unk]-- to anticipate it, worried there might not even be the actual, people are worried that their device is not gonna be able to work on whatever their connectivity settings are. How is that something that you come about? I mean, Mike, I saw you nodding earlier, share us what you're thinking. -We look at both inoperability, you know, it's about the user experience and at the end they shouldn't have to worry about getting the technology as Matt just mentioned. Now, we have some clear distinctions around local versus remote, so all the-- all the inoperability is having to find a new [unk] from the internet then you can't control anything [unk]-- so that's an issue of really it makes sense to put it into the-- into the hardware itself that's local. So, you know, that is our approach for that-- for that same reason, but that said, it's not a value proposition you throw in a box and say, look at it, you're gonna get to this. It should be expected about the user experience when it works, how it works, and it's dependable, and then adjust the keys of using set up around, that's why these markets never make it over to the mainstream, is because it becomes too complicated and if we do our job really well and focus on the user experience, ease of use with the set-up and everything just works, then that's what's gonna bring this over to the mass consumers. So, again, we're trying to really [unk]-- once you-- once it's-- once it's there, people just don't wanna deal whether it stays in the early [unk]-- -Yeah. Great. George? -So, I think it's a really-- you know, probably again, really the goal is this, consumers don't have to worry about [unk]-- If you look at it, [unk] and out, it's gonna need to have some, you know, consolidation also with the-- you know, first when take to talk to the end device with many kinds of products, lighting is one of them, you can have lots of inside your house kind of light [unk] in every room in your house and so you need specific technologies which offer broadly in homes in order to be able to do the [unk] technology from the same [unk] and then it kind a whole house effect into all of these many, many small devices that you have around. That said, whether you guys can make a smartphone is by having many different kinds of devices work together, many of these devices [unk]-- go to many-- you have, you know, one or two, and there you-- generally what you see now is everything is hooked up to your local Wi-Fi network. And the great thing about, you know, IP technology, internet technology is we've been spending the last 20 years building frameworks, and tools, and APIs in order to make it not a huge amount of work, to make things talk to each other. And what we need to do is be more open with our APIs and [unk]-- otherwise speak, and without too much effort things can be brought together and they'd work as one system, you know, being that quick reference when you Cloud on your local network. And I think that's really the key thing, how you can get the internet to [unk] so it's not gonna be everyone's saying on one way of talking to both devices, it's gonna many probably would be more open with how they talk to each other and it being easy enough to actually glue those together. -I think that openness is really important and [unk]-- is that complexity, to engine your way, all those things to make it perfectly seamless and so the experience that you kind of cut off the [unk]-- cut off the people who are in a [unk] with some great ambition, you never [unk] a lot them and you'll get excited about that. I think it's really perfect you got an helm, at least some other helm. -Just to touch onto that, one of the things that I really love about connected appliance, that it's just an app, 'cause you're, you know, we have a group of engineers that make [unk] appliances every day in certain way, but by being connected where [unk] they just a broad group of people, right? It's 2 guys in their garage, it's 2 [unk], you know, anywhere in the world, there's not a lot of company that's saying, "Hey, GE appliances I know you never thought of this," right? This is specifically for a group of people that love when they, you know, work out a need to this. You know, here's an app just specifically for that so, you know, we're excited about the future, right? We're excited about the openness, and I think what everyone is saying here, it's gonna to evolve, right? But the beauty of the marketplace is it will find a winner and everyone will run to that without winning-- but until then, right, everyone has to be patient and they have to be a little creative on how to hook things together, but, you know, when the marketplace is a uniquely connected overall, we're able to connect, right? If you need to be here, we will-- we will do that or respond to the market and that's the beauty of this, right? Right now, if you look at it, you say, it's too disconnected, but eventually as more people join and it's really what everyone is saying, it's easy to use, that eople who buy this, plug it in and it works, they're hooked-- Now, they have another device and they say, "Why don't you connect? Why don't you two talk together?" And then we'll make it talk together, right? And then it becomes a burden of us and then these form of standard [unk], so things that make it easier for both the manufacturer and the consumer, that's [unk]. And I think we're on a great track. -How long do you think it's gonna be, really, until all of these devices, you can come home plug them in or not, it's actually better, just set them on the table and you jump right on [unk], they turn on, your light bulb is connected, your thermostat, and that's what you do. How distant is that feature? Is it about years, year? -I think it's [unk]. I think this is a very, very long road. If you look at the internet, it's a whole life, in the '90s, you know, small communities, not mainstream, like late '90s sort of a much broader, you know, [unk] opportunities, those kind of things. But it really was until like this last decade where it was really mainstream and broad. This is a very, very long road, we have a short [unk] to how long it take. -Sure. Do you guys agree? Lots of nodding. -Yes. I mean it's not years but decades. I think it is-- it's not final, [unk] this thing will continuously evolve, right? So, I think mass adaption is when you say most of the people have this in 10 years, it makes sense, right? For an appliance, you know, it's not like a device that you would just run out and get if you don't have one, you go around and swap out a thermostat for, and your appliance will last 10 to 20 years so that's kind of our problem on, you know, we got this infrastructure of-- -I mean I think there are ways in which that can [unk] most [unk] thing that are-- things that you have and everyone has [unk] people have a cable TV, people have telephone, they have internet and they have utility providers, and these companies [unk] to push these kind of things into the home so I think people will start having some forms of appliance actually sooner before and many, many things with your interaction on a daily basis and which won't work seamlessly together, that's gonna take a bit longer when you have appliance which grow a bit bigger and you start making lines to introduce new stuff and it's gonna be a slow step rise, you know, process towards the final situation where [unk] and you just work through [unk]. -Mike? -I just wanted to point out, it's-- technology adaption curve is based on dependency strike, we talked about the smart phones, but really being the driver, if you even look at smart phone early adopters in 2007 and 2008, and they were really driving the envelope, you know, right now it's [unk] taking five to six years just for catching really [unk]. But then you also look at device manufacturers in constant shifts which are now being [unk], so it's gotta be approachable, the cost, dependency level for, you know, devices to come down the cost for it to really at mainstream. So, if you start looking at dependencies it always works for the innovator, early adopter who really take home, they get excited about it and cost is reduced more [unk] are coming out and really kind of crossing [unk] mainstream will take the 7 to 10. We were-- [unk], I mean look at now, [unk], damn we're so far behind, you know, because you're looking left and right, but the reality of it is on the largest network we're wasting money. -So, as we're taking down this road and done with all of these devices; some talking to each other and some not, and all of this data is going somewhere. How-- who owns that-- where does that data live? Ultimately what's-- what do we do with-- and this is really personal data, right? This is data that is about the way when you are home, when you're not home which is even scary, you know, what your daily lifestyle is like. How do we-- it's a two part question and I'm interested to hear what you guys are thinking about who owns that data, where it lives and then how you keep it safe? Matt? -Yes. [unk], this is something [unk] very poorly across the industry because again there's no regulations that will oversight privacy in general, not just the internet phase but in general, I mean, you know, websites and typing your password and your bank information. There's [unk], right? And this is a general problem, this is not just [unk]. That said, this is [unk], it's the most obvious answer, it's direct, if the consumer says, "Hey, I don't want you to collect my data, just leave my stuff, [unk]." That said, there's a lot of other large organizations that value that data and wanna get at it, you know, for advertising reasons and [unk]. And it's up to us to make sure that doesn't happen and we [unk]. -So, how do you do that? I mean do you-- if you're talking about sort of a revolve type of hub that's bringing in data from a variety of different devices and different [unk] and use at great lengths. How do you-- where do you store that? How do you protect it? -So, there's always a line right in consumer benefit. People sign-up on Facebook, you know, you're kind of giving it a lot of control like reap the benefit that they get, and that's always a tough line and the same thing with smart phone or I'm sorry smart home as we approach, if you'd really want Revolv to add more benefit to your life, you're gonna have to allow us to at least look at the data, maybe not on a personal level [unk] across all the users and patters kind of a recognition what do you use and what you don't. So, it's opt in and it's clearly about you own the data and you own the experience and wanna participate or not. So, you know, there's security of course, encryption between device to phone, phone to Cloud, it has to be there and to Matt's point, it's our responsibility to really enforce that and then but clearly allow for an opt in and again I know people [unk] these things but there is that line on how to produce it or present to the user where it makes sense. You know, it's always a challenge in how to do that but there's a payoff to it [unk]. -Rich. -I think there are probably lot of consumers out there who like being too large and know everything about this. You know, they just want it to work, I'm like oh do this again, I've got to secure all the stuff. I don't really know what the answer is but I don't think it's like and sort of we'd be able to deal with it but I don't think they want to. -Is that a comment or question that you get in a review? You know, how secure is this or even possibly like, "Oh, great, another thing [unk]." -We have seen people commenting on that, we have seen reports of things being kept. It's, you know, those are the concerns of our [unk]. -[unk] privacy and making sure that we're doing the right thing. It's [unk]. -It is and, you know, it's interesting to think about this as getting new ideas but, you know, hackers will hack your personal information on the internet right now. Who knows, this is a future hacking field that it's just [unk] connected to appliances. I mean is this something that you're planning for? -So, we're actually actively engaged with [unk], we provide all our products to them, [unk], but I mean there will be at some point this is one of the things that I think in 12 years, 10 or [unk] to 8, somebody or nobody has [unk] will have some major new story about [unk], that could happen. More on the data side, we might, it's fair trade but I use the Gmail, I am really giving away my data for [unk]. And for us to really fulfill the promises of our own, for us to be [unk] the-- people's need, we do [unk] as data exercise is really what we're doing. -I think-- yes, two [unk] when we talk to our consumers and we do research [unk]. But now it's in the forefront of the public, right? People wanna know how you are using my data, and you have to be good storage of that data and you have to say, you know, with the early [unk] between [unk], right? If you don't care about security then you can get connected right away, but if you care about security, right, you now have to enter some passwords, you have to do some things for authentication. So, that's the trade off, I think now people are starting to become more aware of it and they're willing to make that trade off. But then they also want to say, "Look just because I'm connecting my devices it doesn't mean I have to give you everything you need and you can do with it whatever you want." And that's the big thing, I think people are now starting to become aware of that and, you know, it's really not worth it. You know, there-- I used to have an app on my phone and then I went back and read the, you know, [unk] if you read my email [unk], you know what [unk]. And I think that's what people are becoming more aware of but, you know, when somebody gets hacked the one thing that, you know, especially Rich here, is how would they hack, you know, and what did it really [unk], right? If you have, you know, a device in your possession, it's not easy to hack it but can you hack it from a great distance, can you get the majority, right? It's always it's that degree of risk too that we have to consider when things like this happen, right? And just like everybody was saying, right? There is a major breach, and we're really sloppy well all goes down. But if there is a hack, we have to understand what did it effect, right? When consumer [unk] everybody on the system [unk]. -I think that's an interesting point [unk] how open you'll make a system. It's very easy to lock the system down completely and have it only work for the things that you've made. But if you're actually want to embrace the fact that [unk], build and extend what you've made to be able to use this, [unk]. And that's still easy for the consumers and also [unk] you have to make there as well. So, I think it's really finding that balance for consumers, you know, how many extra things we would say yes to, to get, yes or no to [unk] for your system on board [unk], and how much do you want just to lock it down and maybe set it completely to make sure you will be safe, and I think that they say [unk] discussion is starting to be happening with consumers and in the [unk]. And I think it's a really intriguing one and I think in the next few years we'll come towards a more, you know, universally [unk] the right approach [unk]. -That's great. So, we're gonna go to question in just a couple of minutes. We have to stand right there in the center and so also to point that out [unk] you may want to get out and line up behind that so that we don't have to be up here running with the mic. But before we do that, and as you guys think about your questions, one last question and I want to start with Rich, which is what's the most out there idea [unk], right? We're sort of-- we're in this just open sky right now, what is the idea that you heard has just been the most like, "Oh, gosh I will not follow that." -The most-- one sort of [unk] that we saw yesterday was they set a security system to [unk] side with a [unk], where the security goes off and so [unk]. -That's such a great example of that sort of passive, you're not doing anything it's just this alarm system [unk]. -[unk] that always surprises me and makes me to do with our product, I mean one of the most popular recipes that we have with [unk] and so you need internet data, is we have thousands of people around the world so with their lights, the light [unk] different colors [unk], it didn't cut the window, the colors in the light bulb inside [unk]. -That's great. I have a window in my room, it's a pretty easy thing. Anybody else have a story that they like to tell, just a crazy idea that's amazingly fun? [unk], so there's this stuff that I've seen recently is like the baby's [unk] where baby monitors [unk] for babies, like this is for [unk], we spend a lot of time making sure our children have, you know, [unk] formula [unk]. We'll see what happens [unk]. -So, this generation is gonna be [unk]. -I think we see a lot of trends around [unk] right now and so devices are just basically listening the entire time and making up [unk], pick up a lot of things something like oh where did they go but things like door bells, [unk]. -[unk] appliance, we think we can make all of your appliances together. So, if you, you know, download a recipe on how to make lasagna and then tell the dishwasher [unk], great lasagna and we'll send your [unk]. So, these are things like that, that [unk] devices where you turn on the other and you cool your house a little bit and things like that. It is kind-- the possibilities are endless, right? Let's continue this, let's [unk], you know, you'll have a better idea than I'll have and we'll incorporate it and [unk]. -It's really exciting. I want my [unk]. And I really wanna sincerely thank all of our panelist who were very [unk].