This is a very special Yuletide episode of The 404.
Don't get nervous that I'm the guy.
I'm not Jeff.
You could probably pick that up by now.
I'm here with Jeff and Justin and we're gonna talk about all their deep dark secrets.
All the stuff they've never talked about before.
-I didn't know it was like a deep dark secret thing.
-No, no, 'cause you're gonna reveal things.
I am gonna be such a skilled interviewer.
-I'm like an open book.
-You're gonna be saying stuff you never even thought about or--
-anything to the world.
Rock and roll.
-It's like, I'm just gonna-- I'm gonna just get in to your brain and pull stuff out.
-And I hope you put it back.
Well, it might be a little messy.
You're gonna leave it the way you found it.
It's-- you know, first of all, I gotta say this is such an honor--
-Is it really?
-for me to be here.
-Oh, it's nice of you to lie like that.
sitting in this chair, the Jeff chair.
You know, it's like practically for me like Johnny Carson or something, you know.
-Wow, that's just--
-It's like you're my Johnny Parson.
-And you're my Ed McMahon.
The gift of lowered expectations.
-Or that guy on Conan, what's his name?
-You're Andy Richter.
-I'm Andy Richter?
-He said Andy Rooney first.
-That's actually a good compliment.
-He's really funny.
-He is funny.
-I do love Andy Richter.
-Yeah, you're funny.
-Well, that means a lot.
-But you guys are so
good together, you know, doing amazing thing.
I saw it.
-You're-- but you're only one that thinks that-- no I'm kidding.
-You-- 'cause I'm still, you know, plugging away that Letterman stepping down.
He's thinking about it.
-We're talking before we started and he's just going through the motions.
-I know his CBS Gold and everything as you walk down the hall you see his smiling face there--
-which I find very intimidating.
-It is intimidating.
But I think they need to step up.
-You know-- NBC has Jimmy Falon at Tonight Show,
which is in New York.
-From your mouth to-- yeah.
-So they should bring the-- sorry.
Anyway, that you guys should just glide right in, take over.
-I appreciate that but I feel like a lot of the reason why he love the show is because you're only on when you're here, which is always are best shows.
So you never get to see the other ones that are nearly as good as Steve appears.
-I don't watch the ones without me.
-I'm just kidding-- I do watch them.
-All from your mouth to a less [unk] right?
-Let's get less on the phone right now.
-So let's just pull them up.
-I love that you made a list of the questions you're gonna ask us, a lot like a topics you bring to the show normally.
-This is my security blanket.
It's your binky.
-Can I get that?
I wanna frame that thing.
-So real quick before you start asking I want people to understand like what the hell it is that's going on here.
-This is not-- shouldn't be frightening.
So we had a-- you know, we do these Yuletide episodes every holiday season and someone e-mailed and said, "Hey, you should have Steve interview you guys" and here it's happening.
-That was my sister.
-He is your sister, all right.
However, it happened.
-So take it away man.
This is your show now.
This is a heavy burden actually.
-The big responsibility I sit on this chair.
-Really quick, I wanna say thanks to Ariel who's back in the board there.
He doesn't have a microphone but actually I think this idea in respond by a voicemail asking for us to interview you.
-And now he is somehow arrogantly turned his back into us.
So-- and you didn't have a microphone to defend yourself, so I apologize for that.
We'll have to do another episode that's all about you man.
-He's giving us the finger right now.
-But we do appreciate
Steve being here to do it, interviewing us as well.
-Well, I'm gonna do my best.
-But, you know, like I said, this is heavy.
-Yeah, kick it off man.
Let's get this going.
-So, you know, I think I wanna start with something that, you know, I see you both as writers.
-So when, you know, whoever wants to speak first-- but how did you do that?
-How did you become a writer?
Did you always wanna be a writer?
-Oh, that's a decent question.
You want-- do you want to start this?
So I got into writing because I wanted to get free stuff and it really just boils down to that.
high school, I was really obsessed with Palm Pilots and portable computers-- this is before iPhones came out and everything, before MP3 players came out.
-Wow, you're that old.
-Yeah, I'm really old, more than you thought.
Don't let this looks fool you.
But in high school, I was really into those things and I had no way to fund them 'cause at that time, you know, $400 or $500.
-And so I went on to the internet and I found this website cewindows.net.
And this was maybe in freshman year of high school.
-And they just did consumer reviews just like CNET.
You know, I can work at CNET at the time 'cause I was in Southern California, there's a new office there.
So I set up a partnership with those guys and I started writing reviews which you can actually find on the internet still.
-Yeah, from 1998-1999.
I'm poor in writing so don't judge me based on that--
-Were you good?
-back in a day.
But yeah, that's how I got started doing the reviews thing.
And then of course from there, CNET was sort of the Apex of that industry and that's how I sort of arrived.
-So before you were here though at CNET, where did you have like a stepping stone to get
I worked for a designed magazine called Surface Magazine.
-It sort of all art and design and I did as the contributing tech editor, I did all the tech pages for them.
-Just layouts of cool stuff that I like and sort of curating my own page full of stuff.
-And so combining those two things, writing and technology kinda made sense for CNET and sort of how I came here.
-But before you didn't need like review or tech stuff, did you write short stories or--
-Yeah, I had a bunch of zines in high school and
college where I would do short stories or interviewing my friends or local bands, things like that.
I think that's definitely what started my writing reading zines and kinda realizing that I could sort of produce my own stuff without having to rely on a job that sort of get me--
-So you thought of yourself, yourself image was that you are a writer.
-Yeah, writer first.
-I never really wrote with the expectation of getting into broadcasting.
It was always sort of a written thing for me.
Kinda surprising that we're here now because I never thought that was in the cards for me.
-And you Mister--.
-So, I mean, as long as I can remember I was always like writing little stories.
I always-- when I was really young, I would always have like a notebook with me and I'd always write like completely absurd stories and--
-Fiction made up, that's all.
Just completely nuts.
I remember writing like one story, I don't know how old I was then, I was like 11 and it was about like the government with training kids, had to fight wars through playing video games.
-Sounds real to me.
So, and I just like-- I remember--
-That's pretty good.
I would like let my parents read it and, you know, who else am I gonna give this to and I was like, all right.
Maybe, you know, this would be fun to do that for a living but I didn't really do anything beyond that until college where I was doing like a lot of freelance stuff and I took a bunch of like creative writing classes in college and I was-- and I got sort of hired to do a few things for games while I was in school.
And yeah, I mean, you know, I've like written
a few screenplay since then and just sort of like mess around and--
-When you said games you mean like games, video games?
-Video games, yeah.
-So you were writing--
-I was writing about-- no, I was writing movie scripts 'cause I really wanted to make movies when I was younger and when I got to college, I was still doing that stuff but I got work, paid work writing like video game blogs while I was in college.
Blogs are like very, very new when I was in the school and
it was like sort of uncharted territory and I was doing that for a little bit.
And then after college I kept doing that.
I did a lot of production stuff and I was just doing like I was writing whenever I could and I never really had like a blog on my own that I sort of like updated consistently.
I would always sort of like go around and write, you know, something like that.
And then I remember one day I wrote about when Mitch Hedberg died, this comedian, and that got picked up by like dozens of blogs.
And I remember
being like, Whoa.
I did this real quick.
I should try and like make this-- I never thought that like you could make money doing it.
I just thought it was like a recreational thing or at least in my mind, I didn't see myself doing it as a profession but, you know, after the blog, the video game blog shut down, I sort of got directed towards CNET and it was like a couple of months of review, sort of like interview process and here I am.
-A couple months for the interview?
-It took a really long time
to get hired at CNET.
-It took me my first interview was Valentine's Day of 2007 and now was before like weeks and weeks and weeks of like interviews over the phone and I finally got to see like I met Falcone for the first time in February up until then my relationship with him was over the phone.
-So it basically took from like January and like my first day was like early May.
-So it took like almost 5
months to get hired here.
-Wow, that's crazy.
-And I've just like, you know, and it's still is, like CNET is a very big deal but looking from the outside in when you have no sort of connection to the company, you're like, "Jesus, this must be going through everyone of them." You know, like I'm like, "Oh, my God, I'm getting vetted from every angle." But yeah, and that's really how I started.
I've always like writing up.
To me it's like, I don't know.
I just like writing because I feel like, you know, being able to like arrange stuff and for people to comprehend better than like stuff
that I would read.
To me was like always the thing I could-- just always wanted people to understand what the hell I was thinking.
Is that-- do you ever get that like sort of--
Sort of just explaining--
-you know, and to maybe have it be a little entertaining, that's why the hell not?
-You wanna hear a funny story about my interview process?
-Oh, I think so.
-So I had intern for CNET for a while and then some time pass and I had a few other jobs because they couldn't renew the contract for that internship.
-And David Carnoy was the one who eventually called me up 'cause they had kept my
information on file.
But when he called me, I was doing bike messenger work at the time in San Francisco.
-And he called in a middle of the day, it must have been 6:00 on his time when, you know, there wasn't a lot of work to do.
But it was 3:00 my time in California and I'm still on the job, I was riding my bike around and delivering packages and he called asking if I could do a short interview maybe 15-20 minutes.
-And I really, really wanted this job.
I wanted to move out to New York for CNET but I didn't have time for an interview right then 'cause I was delivering packages.
-So I ended up having to do
both at the same time and to this day, I don't think Carnoy even knows that I was riding around.
-I was riding up elevators and hop-- and trying not to exert energy and you could sound like I was huffing and puffing on the phone.
-But then at the same time trying to give the right answers for this job.
-But would have been the problem if you're just like, "look, I'm out."
-I was worried 'cause I had been waiting on this job to come in.
You know, I had worked P.R. and I hated that.
-Bike messenger was a lot of fun but grueling.
I didn't know I was gonna do that for the rest of my life.
So when he called us, like this is my one and only opportunity.
I can't get him off the phone--
-Better not-- right.
-what if someone else he talks to in the meantime, that's tough.
-But you're in San Francisco.
-I was in San Francisco.
-So there wasn't anything that you're going to work in San Francisco office.
That wasn't an option and I had always sort of waiting for this call to come in and so when David was like, "Hey, we have this opportunity."
-Granted he was reviewing printers and headphones at the time but he was like, "Yeah, you should come in and talk to us about this." I had to, which is really funny so I ended up being about half-and-hour conversation.
-That's interesting man.
-All on the bike.
So when you came to New York you were hired already or--
I came here on Valentine's Day, that was my first
-Oh, there's like some sort of cosmic connection we have in Valentine's Day.
-It's a Valentine's Day connection.
-Wait, what's yours?
-I had my first in-office interview on Valentine's Day in 2007.
I didn't know that either.
-And I thought-- it was so funny.
I thought that interview went terrible.
And I remember I was out with Stacie 'cause she was already working by then and we went to go to see a show after and the whole time I was like so bummed out 'cause I thought it was bad and I'm just like--
-This is with the Falcone?
-Yeah, it was like Falcone-- it's funny like Katzmaier
came in and he sort of had this like stare on them and I was like, "Jesus, I don't want-- oh, man.
These guys are like intense."
-And knowing their personalities now--
-They must have some really good poker faces--
-I don't-- yeah, maybe it was just like a poker face.
Maybe I was like one of-- I'm sure it was one of like a dozen people who would actually had to come in so maybe they were like trying to keep it consistent to write a book.
-But I thought you were-- weren't you a film student?
-Yeah, I went to school for film.
-So then you're making any films?
Out of school, I did a
documentary for a band that we went on tour with them for a couple of months.
-Yeah, I was like a Warner Bros.
Freelance employee for like six months.
-But what did you do in the making of the movie?
What were you doing?
-I was shooting it and sort of producing it and putting it together and like-- well, I mean it was like a two-person production crew and this is way before, you know, like this is before like, it's right as like deep like mini DV, it was like
the format of choice but there wasn't really any sort of affordable, versatile camcorders that we give you like production values on par with what you can get now.
So, it was very sort of rough-- I mean you can, like you can go buy it still it's like in the stores and so-- it's a CD/DVD.
-I don't wanna buy it.
I wanna see it for free.
-But it's also on YouTube.
-You also put it on YouTube?
-Yeah, it's on YouTube.
Yeah, it's on YouTube.
It's called Mest: Collins Seven Deadly Sins.
-Mest, M-E-S-T was the name of the band.
-You can watch it.
I'm like in it a little too.
-You should check with how many views it has down and see how many more people--
-I think it has like 30, 40,000 views.
-I mean the band was like super popular back then.
They're not really around anymore.
-So-- but was that sort of the dream that you're gonna be a filmmaker or something?
-Yeah, I mean, I wanted to make movies and that's-- my big thing was like, I didn't necessarily wanna direct it.
I just wanna write them.
I just wanna write movies and I've written a couple of screenplays and, you know, I was lucky enough to have one of them sort of like
floating around but with all that other crap.
It's just so shocking impossible to like make any headway and I think that coupled with, and I was like working for like legitimate producers like I really thought that I have like a very or this more realistic of a chance and perhaps someone coming out of nowhere 'cause it was all about like who you know.
-And, you know, I was convinced that like I was like yes, this is gonna just happen for me.
I was also,
you know, young and like 20 and just thought the world was just gonna like wait for me to start writing movies.
-But yeah, I mean you know, that's sort of what I wanted to do.
But then I also got really disenchanted 'cause I was like going to movies and like movies were getting progressively shittier and I was like, "Man, you know, what Hollywood puts out now is garbage.
How the hell--
-Think about selling your reputation by making a piece of crap now.
-Well, yeah but I was just saying like, you know, I was like, "man, if this is what they're releasing
how the hell is something like--
-But you could have rise above?
This is a cakewalk man.
-I don't know.
I don't know.
But yeah, I don't know-- you know, and I worked on a few movies and Stacie did a few movies.
Stacie did like a bunch of Queen Latifa movie she worked on and, you know, she become aware and then just be like this is the worst thing ever and it just disenchanting me.
It got me sort of like, you know, psyched out of it.
-I gotta bring in my movie or something.
-Which I can't find right now.
I'm sure it's somewhere in my apartment.
-When you guys come you'll see why it's hard to find something
but I made a movie.
-Oh, that's funny.
I mean running for president in 1984.
-Wait a minute, I thought that was real.
-That was real.
-Also it's a documentary about your--
It was like a parody of film of someone running for president.
-So you weren't-- you technically were not running for president?
-Well, I mean--
-I mean technically anyone can run for president.
I didn't fill out any form but I did have--
I thought that was real dude.
-I did have a representative
at the democratic convention.
-And they were wearing a Guttenberg for president button.
-And he comes back and he traded it for an Angela Davis, who is like a radical 60's--
-She-- look, I got an Angela Davis for president button.
-Oh, my God.
-But Justin, so you're from San Francisco?
-I'm from Orange County originally in Huntington Beach.
-Yeah, Southern California.
Both of my parents still live there.
My dad used to owned a Chinese restaurant there, it was opened for 34 years and my Mom still lives in there as well.
-Oh, but it's not there anymore?
He just retired last year and lucky enough too, the week after he gave the keys over to a new owner, a car crash into the front of the restaurant.
-Luckily no one was hurt which is why I'm laughing about it now but man, I don't know, if that was his good luck or the other guy's bad luck but he got out.
-Definitely the other guy's bad luck.
-Yeah, he got out in time.
-Well, that's my stuff.
-So how was it
like-- I always think of this like East Coast, West Coast thing like, you know, people on the West Coast have these feelings about New York and what it is or what I think it is and then--
-get here and it's.
Is it better, just different than what you thought it was gonna be or worst?
-I think, you know, obviously the stereotype about the East is that everybody in New York is an asshole.
-But that's not true.
-And now that I've been here for five years, it's pretty much true.
Yeah, I think it's true but it's also, you know, no one ever tells you
that if you spend enough time in New York you will become an asshole yourself only because there's so much going on and I know Ariel sort of feels the same way too as a fellow California transplant but everything just moves at a crazy pace out here and, you know, not a lot people tell you that you're never gonna have privacy and that's something that I had to get used to and yeah, it's definitely been an uphill battle but that's five furious space here.
-I know that if I wasn't from here, I know that I would hate New York.
-I think that's accurate.
-But I was from here, so--
-There's a lot of things I don't miss though.
I don't miss being stuck in traffic in LA, that was a constant thing.
I don't miss having to find parking or, you know, giant sprawls of suburbia, I don't really miss that at all.
-Truck housing, I hate seeing stuff like that.
Yeah, you know, there some tradeoffs.
-But you're not gonna stay.
I know I am gonna stay.
-Oh, you are.
-Yeah, I'll be here for a while.
I'm not planning on moving back anytime soon.
-He's gonna like, you know, get the whole nine yards here, you know.
-Well, The 404 really has sort of anchored my experience in New York
so I can't leave until I feel like I'm finish with the show.
-And get this Letterman thing.
-Yeah, he's contractually obligated to stay in New York.
-The show's gotta stay in New York.
-You know, I'm a union guy.
You know those union guys?
Those are my brothers so--
-Well, get us in there.
-Keep it in the New York side.
-LA's got plenty.
-I believe with you that.
I remember I went to LA in the 70's and I walked soon as I got there.
The first thing I wanted to go to was Hollywood Boulevard.
-And look at
all the stars in the sidewalk.
-So I walked up and down both sides straight looking at those stars.
And you know what I thought?
Wow, this is like a giant Time Square.
What a sleazy, disgusting--
-That's not is.
-It's-- yeah, I don't really like that area, you know.
-especially in the 70's.
-This is like maybe 76 or 77.
-They were like, you know, porno theaters and not though that's a bad thing but it was just like one's cozy place after another.
-Occasionally nice places but, you know--
the weird thing is now instead of that area being across the entire city, it's blocks to blocks so I'm sure you saw this back in the E3 but you'll beyond one black and it'll be all really nice houses and, you know, high end sartorial stores and then the next block will just be a line of homeless people in tents sleeping on the sidewalk.
-So that discrepancy has gone a lot more obvious.
-It's hard for New Yorkers to get used to palm trees by the way.
-And I have-- I think palm trees are
-Yeah, they're cool looking.
-Any trees after being in Manhattan just seeing any kind of [unk].
-[unk] is like I grew up where there were like I-- that's why I sort of like, you know, I'm able to have like both sides of it.
-They grew up so close to the city but I also lived in suburbia so I, you know, I had my city stuff when I wanted it.
-But I also was able to like-- I was always able to like go outside and play hockey 'cause it was freaking suburbia.
-And from Jersey from Hoboken or--
-No, no, no.
I didn't-- I grew up in a town called Marlboro,
which is like a, you know, 45 minutes south here.
-There's definitely something about the East Coast that makes you value the good weather and the opportunity that you get 'cause this is only I would say five months out of the year in spring and maybe--
-Right, for sure.
-a little bit of fall where you can actually go out and have fun.
I remember in California for one reason or another--
-You can have [unk] in the summer time?
-Yeah, I was always in California, I was never about outdoor activities, camping,--
-'cause you took it for granted.
-Yeah, I took it for granted.
I could do it anytime during the year and so
as a result, I never did it.
And it's a backward way of thinking but then now that I live in the city, those outdoor activities means so much more because there is not a lot of time for it.
And so when you do get the opportunity, you're like, "wow, I really wanna go and take a metro north train up to Poughkeepsie or up to anywhere--
-off to those lines and go for a camping trip and something that I never embraced in California.
I like that about--
-Yeah, but when you grow up on the East Coast, you like discover winter sports and they become equally as important.
-Like growing up, going skiing and, you know, obviously the ice hockey stuff like that's, you know, that culture is really strong here.
-So how did the whole gaming thing happen for you?
-How did I get into video games?
-Yeah, I mean-- you did it before you wrote about--
-Yeah, of course.
I've been playing games probably since I'm like 2 or 3 years old.
-So almost like 30 years.
It's funny enough my Dad-- I think and I only have like a fragmented sort of memory of this.
But when I was living in Queens, I think
he got me like an Atari at one point and I was just, "Check this out.
It's gonna blow your mind or whatever." And I remember playing it and sort of being like underwhelmed by it.
I definitely remember being like, "This is not as cool as something should be now." I just remember that, maybe that's my--
-You had anticipation, it was gonna be--
-Oh, I don't know, like maybe that's just my impression now being forced upon, you know, like my three or four-year old brain but that's kind of how I remember it.
I say it's ironic because now he's completely detached from video games like he is a total [unk].
He's just completely, you know, detached from all kinds of technology.
He definitely like, does not embrace it at all and he kinda doesn't even understand like the hell massively popular and really good games are now.
-But the learning curve has gotten a lot worst.
-A hundred percent.
-I remember, for me, I love playing video games but once you started having to aim and move at the same
time, that was when it's got being from--
-But I'm not even talking about that like I'm totally cool with understanding that, "Yeah, he can't pick up." Look I have friends--
-Yeah, I can't do it.
-just can't do it.
I'm looking at one right now.
But like for him, I don't even think he realizes like how they're pretty much, you know, on par with movies now and, you know, arguably more compelling.
-But when you were doing this film thing--
-and that was your plan for a while.
-You didn't see like games as--
I never thought, you know, I feel like covering the--
-as someone who never plays, some aren't they cinematic in their own way?
I mean, I think-- any, you know, an historian would make the argument that games were always telling a story.
They just were so, you know, sort of like in their infantile stated they couldn't--
-But they have characters.
And now you're right.
And now, I mean, there's-- I think even this year there were like three or four games that are better done, better production value than
-You know, when you call it Spade of Spade.
But when I was really into like the movie thing, I don't know, maybe it was just like, we weren't there yet.
-It was like PlayStation 1, where like things-- there were there, 3D was there but it wasn't really, I don't know.
I maybe didn't just have the force.
I had to be like, "You know what, this is probably where it's going."
-And I think a lot of that was because when I was in college, when we were in college, there was barely any sort of like take a
videogame course or do something like that like--
-There really was none, really?
-There really was not where I went to school and none of my friends took classes like that.
-When I went to school it was, like I took Woody Allen course in the school.
-Woody Allen's video game.
-Yeah, I took courses like film in the city and Newark courses and like really understanding like--
-Sounds more like the 70's.
I mean I kinda was, you know, everyone who listens to the shows knows like when I went to school, the first year that I was in school, the first film I did for that year was shot on a
It was cut and splicing like there was no-- like sound and audio where too separate systems like it-- now it just not like that.
By the time I graduated, I was using final cut.
-But you think it was good that you have that as a ground thing.
-I think it's definitely good now I was talking to my buddy Andia, who works for GameSpot while I was out there shooting a video series last week and he said like, "Dude, we are lucky that we got to see that." And I think he's right like it's cool to know where this all came from.
But when you look at like
practical applications for this time and age is just completely irrelevant.
I mean, it's-- like I get it like you should know where the history of the film was and you should know like how insanely tough it was to make a movie, you know, even 20, you know, it's still tough to make a movie and not taking any labeled like what really went into it and like changing the film in the bag and like loading, you know, there's really not a lot of--
-It's good that you have the experience.
-I think so, I think so.
-Yeah, for sure.
-So, do you think that
there's like a post-CNET party alive for you given to the gaming industry at some point?
-I don't know man.
Maybe, I have no idea.
I don't really--
-IO mean 'cause it still seems very much from the outside looking in and it's still very much in its ascendency it's not like it's leveling.
It's still have a long way to go.
-I think it's definitely in its on the up but it's also branching out in dozens of different directions.
So where like 10 years ago, you could think like, "Man, what's gonna be
like video games in 20 years." Now it's like all the mobile sort of stuff needs to be taken in consideration and I feel like that sort of--
-Sort of like where people--
That sort of like throws this huge monk you mentioned the whole thing.
-I don't-- I mean like--
-I mean like the more I've covered the industry the more I've been like, "Man, I wanna write a video game.
Like I definitely--
-That sort of exciting.
I know, I understand what you're saying.
But I think for, you know, right now, you know, I like what
we're doing sort of like analyzing it and viewing it and commenting on this budding, still budding industry but yeah, I would love to do something like that.
-Could you write a book?
-I think maybe something like that.
I also, I do a lot of stuff with like comics too, you know, I've worked on a few of those, so--
-By the way, I mean this is an interview about you but I'm actually thinking about doing a comic.
-A comic book or a comic--
I like to run on somebody's websites--
-Oh, right on.
Like what I did for CNET.
as a, I guess like an anti-hero.
-Oh, my God.
I would read the hell out of that.
Can I be the protagonist?
-It's called Sphere.
-No, I'm gonna kill people with headphones.
-You guys like choke them out with the wire?
-Well, I'm gonna hit them in their head to pierce their skulls with headphones.
-I'm not gonna let him in, kinda scary to you right now.
-You are gonna have like sonic projectiles?
-I'll explain, I wanna give it all the way.
All right, who's drawing?
-But anyway, so I put some magazines.
I have a friend of mine who can-- who's good at this.
-And we're working on it.
It's sort of whom I'm selling it.
-So like multiple panels?
-Yeah, multiple panels.
-So for the first time,
-literally in 40 years, I bought two comic books.
-Oh, what did you get?
-I got action.
-Comics and Batman.
-The new 52?
-Yeah, the new 52.
-Okay, so where you're starting that.
-Yeah, so what is it?
What do you know which issue you started with?
-I didn't leave it.
The one that's out right now.
-Okay, right on.
just sort of gives me grounding to do this.
-That series is fantastic.
-But I definitely wanna do it and the artists, half of this team is rearing to go.
-It's just finding someone who can pay for it.
-It's not even that dude, the best part about comics now I think is that you can do it and just publish it like you don't have to worry about getting into college or so.
You put it online.
You gotta give it away for free movie and like that's how--
-See, I was making him sick.
I need to get paid.
-No, you gotta do--
-Especially the artists still get paid.
-You gotta do it for free.
You have to do making it worth each others' while.
-We'll talk more about this so it's your-- I don't wanna take those things-- spotlight away from you guys but--
-No, right on.
-It's just funny.
-I would read that.
-I really wanna do it.
-Definitely I would read that.
-There's a lot to it.
-I love it.
-So, and you?
What are you gonna do?
-Yeah, what are you gonna do?
-What's your post--
-What do you gonna do after we get [unk]?
-Yes, this supposes that The 404 is not gonna be a successful in--
after the 404 and then--
-Who you like we've done something right?
-After the late show.
After the late show.
-After the late show episodes.
Yeah, after that could turn up to 20 years.
-So, you know, when you're in your 50's and stuff.
I would love to do something with music.
Yeah, I know that's not an industry that you really wanna give into now.
-He's like joking on the Titanic--
-Everything we've been talking about.
-after they hit the iceberg.
They don't care about making money.
-Not so much money but that won't matter.
But one of my favorite video show is KCRW's Morning becomes collected.
I have heard.
-And I really like Pitchfork TV and all that stuff from noisy on vice.
-I'd love to work for some video show, something similar to like Soundcheck on WNYC.
And, you know, reproducing videos online--
I think that's good.
-of live performances for people like myself.
I just hate just going to live shows now.
I don't know if you guys feel this way but, you know, as I get older, I just become more and more impatient with--
-setup times, other people in the audience, bad shows period--
-bad sound, yeah exactly.
So if I could do all of that at home, I feel a lot of people would probably--
-You know, there's like Last FM was like in this building.
They're right there and they do a lot of what you just described.
So maybe after technology's done, I kinda wanna get into music.
-Eventually technology will end.
-Yes, I mean after--
-Everything will have been invented, like you know, as I said in the previous episode--
-You're creeping back at the--
-that the NAD
1978 is sort of peaks for me.
-Right, I mean tech eventually nothing will cease to exist anymore and we will just go back to the Stone Age.
-Or just be virtual.
-No, no Stone Age.
-No Stone Age?
-I think the future is that the people who were rich enough--
-Will have a physical life and they will do exciting things--
-that everybody else is just in their virtual time-like worlds, right?
-Only hoping to do.
-Having fantasies about having sex with Natassja Kinski or something.
-And then only the rare, lucky few people will have a physical life.
-But that's what you will aspired to.
-So you want the real life.
-I love it.
I love living man.
-I love that when you talk about who you'd like to have sex with.
You referenced a 42-year-old woman who is Natassja Kinski?
-But I still don't--
-I've never heard of her.
-I never heard that name before you do.
-Bring up the picture of her with the snake.
-Just put Natassja Kinski snake.
For me, that's it.
-Why the snake?
-Look at that snake.
-Is this an actress?
-All right, here you go.
-All right, I see what you mean there.
-You got that there?
-It's [unk] smaller.
-That's Natassja Kinski to me.
-Can we bring that up Ariel?
I don't know if this--
-We just leave that on the screen for a while.
-There she is.
-That's my Natassja.
-That's my future too, yeah.
-Oh, we've turned off everyone who is here just to-- no, I'm kidding.
-It's all right.
-It's all good.
-Back to you guys.
-All right, we have a few more minutes.
-We have a few more minutes?
-Maybe like 5 or 10.
-So the 404 is taking to the next level.
-Yeah, for sure.
-Could you have dreamed this?
-It's been in the works for a while.
We've been dreaming--
-daydreaming about it for a really long time.
So we're really excited.
-Where is Randall Bennett?
-Where's Randall Bennett?
I think Randall, I kinda talked to him every now and then like on Twitter.
-I'm pretty sure he's in Utah.
He is doing well with his-- he, I think he co-created a service that lets TV shows use Twitter feeds live
on a broadcast and I think he's having a fair amount of success with that.
So that's awesome.
-So if he comes to New York you should have him on.
-Yeah, I mean.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't travel a lot.
-Just-- I kinda don't talk to him a lot.
I just kinda like get what he's putting out and sort of form my own conclusion.
-And he's interesting.
So when I was on the 404 with Randall, he was like maybe a month or two old at that point.
-The show was.
We bridge you on that quick.
-Where you were desperate for a guest.
-I guess so.
It didn't work out by the way.
-But that was fun.
-I remember that was the thing I said right away, I was like, this is fun.
-That was you, Randall, Jeff and Wilson?
-The four of you guys?
Okay, so this was still the Dudecast days if you were--
It was the 404 still.
-It was the 404.
-It's called dude-- the Dudecast was like the internal name.
-It was never like a public thing.
-Well, it's amazing.
-So this is-- well, not this one but the one that I was on
the regular 404.
-That was 1401.
-Yes, it was.
-And you guys never look at the old ones.
-I've never heard an entire episode with the 404 before.
I mean with that the episodes for audio and, you know, fidelity issues, but aside from little snippets, there's--
-That would be--
-not a lot of reasons for either of us to go back and listen.
-You should just pick one.
-Yeah, you should.
-and just watch that.
-I'm not gonna sit here and say, haven't listened to an episode.
You need-- to me, you need to hear like I need to hear something that I don't remember.
-Just because I wanna know if I like it.
So if I like it, then I'm happy.
-And that's really to me like that's all I care about.
So I'm not gonna sit here and say like, of course, I don't download episodes and listen to them on the ride home.
-But I've definitely like, I just recently I went back and listen to the Maron episode because I never really did when after he came out.
-And I was happy with it and I was like, you know what, cool.
-We get some distance from there.
-Yeah, you need to do that.
-I think it's funny that like when I, somebody like rips me off in one of my reviews or something--
-And I see it somewhere and I saw these reviews I wrote but that [unk] I realized it's me.
But it's like you can read something and takes you might, 'cause it was like 2 years ago.
-You like, I wrote that?
Is that what you do?
-So I didn't think I really-- oh, that's me.
-I'm reading it as if someone else wrote it.
-So I can, it's like the weirdest thing for, you know, a writer--
-To detach yourself.
-To detach yourself from your writing.
But when enough time was elapsed--
-And you just come randomly with someone else's name as the writer, and then you're reading, you go.
"Oh, I wrote this and I've read it like, you know, 500 words and now I understand that it's me."
-And so I'm reading it and say, "Oh, this guy's good."
I think for me, I'm worried that if I go back and listen to an entire episode then I'll start being overly critical of myself, which is what you're supposed to do.
I understand that, yes.
But that's why you're gonna listen to an episode that's in the past because--
-you're probably correct--
-But I'm worried that after I listen to that episode, I'll try to correct myself live on the show and make it sort of a performance and it's really been that way for us.
-You shouldn't do that.
-I think the conversational kind of anecdotal side and the 404 is what will makes it good.
-And I'm worried that it's gonna sound sort of rehearse if I'm in my brain thinking, oh, well.
All right back and listen to that.
-Then don't change a thing.
-Keep doing what you're doing.
-Keep doing what you're doing.
-Yeah, it's gonna be organic for me.
-'Cause you know what's amazing like you see these shows on TV like when they did the American version of Top Gear--
-a couple of years ago.
-It's like, man these guys have
-I mean it looks easy--
You can't really.
-There's really no reason why we should have chemistry either like to be totally honest.
-I'm just saying like, you know, we were-- I think we're personally kinda lucky that it kinda like worked out.
-I guess so.
-You know what I mean?
What do you mean?
-I just think like, well, no.
I take that back a little bit--
-It's not predictable.
-because we were definitely friends before the show started and I'm saying we're lucky because it worked out like that.
-Like it worked out that Justin
came here and we hit it off.
And we're like, "Man, this could probably work."
-So that's what I mean like we're gonna say it's-- by all, you know, standards, it shouldn't work because, you know, usually like before you get a show you like find people who you work and, you know, we were lucky like, "Oh, man.
Justin literally like showed up at the perfect time and it-- and like we all got along, we're like, "Man, this is probably gonna work."
-I think, yeah, I think what makes the chemistry good is the fact that we do have a show together but we're personally so different.
-I mean, we should work--
yeah, there's a little some connection point of music and things like that.
-There's some overlaps.
-But in general, our interests are really different.
A lot of times our opinions and stuffs is really different but that's kinda what makes good radio and conversations too.
-Chemistry is just being able to have that back and forth and, you know, you don't get stuck.
-It's like there's always something to say and to continue and I think that's it 'cause you can have it in real life with friends that you just connect with that person and you just have this thing that's going.
-But then you meet other people and okay.
-Doesn't have it.
-And said something and move on.
-Yeah, like think about it like that and not to just like completely, you know, toot our own horns.
But the fact that like we've haven't killed each other, right?
And to me like that's amazing 'cause I feel like I meet people and, you know, like you said like, I meet people like-- "man, I don't ever wanna see that guy ever again."
-You're that and you've said your thing and time to move on.
-You know-- I don't know.
To me that's kind of cool.
-And the other thing you can make analogies to bands,
you know, like the bands hate each other.
-But it's just [unk], right?
There's a lot of bands like that.
No, there's a shitload of bands that just hate each other.
-And it's like, they're just in it for business.
-And they're making money and stuff.
-And that's it.
But it's like-- but that's even that's different because they go out and play their tunes and stuff a [unk] pattern, that's it.
But you guys have to interact in a natural way unscripted every day to do this thing.
-And just make it flow.
That's hard to do.
-I've always wonder if
the people that I'm seeing on TV, you know, like I brought this up-- do you ever watch Good Day in New York?
-I used to.
-Greg Kelly and Rosanna Scotto.
-I can't watch those guys because I can tell that they hate each other and you can tell because they'll sort of put little cuts, you know, they're like jab each other.
-And it'll be sort of a pass of aggressive thing.
-And then one more like really insult you.
Then they're just kinda be this awkward silence for a second and I think, you know, you brought Conan O'Brien, him and Andy don't have that.
-Yeah, you could tell it.
-They're really good friends.
-But, you know, sometimes lack on Stern when he was funny a long time ago--
-when he was on regular broadcast radio.
-And he had his crew and he almost like intentionally set up these wars between him and like--
He would like be the puppet master and then turn everyone against.
-And you couldn't tell is this an act?
Or is this like today we're gonna do this thing or it was really happening--
There was a lot of theory in the mind sort of stuff there too, though, you know.
[unk] work it was amazing.
-You know, when Howard was on NBC
and he was getting a lot of stuff like you can't do this and you can't do that.
-And he went into [unk] Mike and he went into the general manager's office.
-Yeah, it's in the movie.
But I mean, it really happened.
-And I was listening to that when it happen thinking, is this a bit or is this real?
-And the fact that you can't tell.
-That made great radio.
-Yeah, for sure.
-You know, so when you can have that and it can, you can-- you know, you don't even know for sure.
-I'm glad you think we have that.
-'Cause you hate each other.
Because I think we do a good job of being friends off screen and on the show.
It doesn't really change.
Well, cool man.
-So I didn't miss anything?
I didn't screw thing up?
-I think that's it.
-I didn't say any bad words?
-You did a great job man.
I would love to, I don't know, not do it again.
We just did it.
-I think you should have your own podcast.
I mean, we talked about Maron and Alec Baldwin.
-Why wouldn't you have your own?
I think this interview is going great.
You know a lot of really interesting people--
-Yeah, you can do it.
-and have great
There's no reason why people wouldn't listen to you.
-I would absolutely listen to you.
-Yeah, I would subscribe as well.
-Well, I'll think about that.
But I got my headphone killer thing.
You got a lot on your plate now.
The podcast will come when it's ready.
All right, cool man.
Well, this is your show.
Take us out.
-Okay, so this was this a very special and even more special than I anticipated.
Special episode of The 404 and happy holidays, happy Hanukkah and what's that--
-Christmas and the Seinfeld thing, what is that--
-Festivus and Quanza.
-Festivus-- whatever, however you celebrate the end of the year.
Enjoy it and we'll see you next year.
I'll see you next year, I hope, on the 404.
So my guests, so you all know these guys.
-Justin and Jeff and next time.