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Ep. 94: Amazon Fires straight at AppleWe're in the middle of an exciting news cycle: Amazon is going after Apple's tablet business with its $199 Kindle Fire. And Apple is hosting a big iOS press announcement on October 4. How are the companies squaring off? Join Rafe and a panel of CNET experts...
I brought up to reporters' roundtable in our new time slot ten -- M on Friday Pacific time or exceeds 10:22. AM. We get a few minutes between friends. -- thank chairman for joining us especially those of you new to the roundtable this is our weekly show we talk about a single tech topic each time goes about thirty minutes. This week very exciting show because our earlier this week of course. Amazon launched three new Kindle tablets if you do the math one way or five if you do -- another. And including their first color Android based. Tablet kind of a -- competitor or -- Samsung galaxy competitor will we'll talk about that and then next week on Tuesday that 4 October. Apple's having its big giant. IPhone announcement maybe we'll be talking about some other stuff too. Amazon's Kindle especially the Kindle fired -- color tablet announcement will directly impact how people think about what Apple shows on the fourth so we're going to talk about today. And I've got in a zoo of experts offer -- -- -- talk about this. If you wanna read more about what's happening on with the Amazon and Apple announcements just go to cnet.com we -- covering this thing nonstop. Are right so our guests are first. To my left in the studio Donald bell. Are Apple reporter. Thanks Josh dialing in from New York via the miracle of usually working sort of almost Skype. We have Roger Chang who is a senior reporter writer from in the New York office. I writer -- a pentagon thanks feminine. And David Carnoy who was at the Amazon it reviewed dig revealed in New York -- few days ago thanks they've prominent. Are right we get everybody working all right so let's get into this. Why I'm gonna start from them from kind of the basic level set yet. Amazon sells electronic books you can get the Kindle on every device under the sun why does Amazon even need its own line of Kindle hardware. Because they wanna sell more product -- -- mean they're not only does selling books are selling videos. They're selling apps now -- And -- it through massive selling game contents. So there's a lot of downloadable content and they want -- get in everybody's hands me wanna get people. Hooked on their particular brand of serving -- -- content right so the Kindle fire of the color product how important is that. It's glow. Josh. But he's very important and you're going from from Sony or it's purely -- a device of books to -- or you can get. Almost everything Amazon does including actually shopping Amazon.com. Before you just didn't have -- could go on Amazon. Through the Kindle but it was you know very kind of weird quality experience. With something like this now they have their browser they have all their apps on there it is like an entirely and Amazon product from the get -- Okay Roger united both written about the expense to Amazon. Propeller Kindle. Fire device are they -- -- money on this product and do they need to. It's it's still -- Cleary had one -- one days and losing fifty another person saying they're making fifty books either way the margins are slim to none. But it doesn't matter right because the the hardware is something they give away so they could sell the service's Josh -- the apps -- than TV shows movies all that stuff that's what. That's what -- 01 and drive they want to have any digital catalog -- to console -- Okay and that article. Has one other thing about it is that in order to really use the device -- video residents. Unique set up in Amazon -- to stream media assets nine dollars year and once you. And every but you're more likely to shop and -- -- so I'd you know it's really Trojan horse -- Amazon. But they are giving away and leave a free year Amazon prime with -- -- -- -- three months as a free monthly burn from a right now. And so be I think ultimately Amazon wants whether it's ordering new underwear through and -- on -- artist. Ordering. Did you land where ancestor. -- the idea of alt Amazon ultimately wants -- public knee jerk reaction anytime you need something if you're going to Amazon for. -- of it being a and Netflix competitor. I mean this is really a way that they don't have as many idiot if you only -- about 111000. Whereas Netflix got about 40000. But this is await eager to get people switch over from Netflix and error in an -- but -- Yeah I mean is that the Sony nine dollar means that that's a good deal considering -- spend more -- year on Netflix. Cherry get half human video it sort of free -- being -- -- in other perks. It's like -- But it's and it's a Trojan horse to get people. User services. That David you're at the announcement in New York part of the publishing world Mecca publishing what was the reaction it. You think from the publishing industry for these new products and -- -- gonna talk about. The outlook publisher. That what exactly like -- -- out of the -- on this one I mean I think that. I really think that -- -- the big headline here the right thing. The whether one -- for the tablet. Or Saturday. Not in time for those. Those entry level Kindle and that's really tremendous that's what people away or the other thing that people forget about that would be. Amazon actually makes good amount of money on the commerce of the device. CB Kindle lighted copper. That's not our -- -- actually cost nine dollars. It. I hang I'm stunned I mean I and I know the -- remark is always been a great moneymaker beta. And sync it with their leather covers to it -- -- 25 dollars. For basically a piece of leather and plastic -- -- -- price cost a dollar to make me wanna get college the naked Kindle He got to pay for the -- it's certainly true is that but the did they announce a line of accessories and covers for the fire as well. Ethnic and I think so -- those -- -- -- before then became the pre -- for the Kindle slacker and stuff so let's talk a little bit about. Before it is talk about what I was going to affect Apple about Amazon's model here we've we've -- on this briefly wanted to chance chime in but. Amazon is this 19. Android tablet the Kindle fire. That's an extraordinarily aggressive price point even considering that that product doesn't have a few features like expendable memory or cameras. How important is that in two Amazon that it. Sells. Its own Kindle color tablet. Well it's actually in the sense of it being a response to -- Barnes and Noble's Nook Color. It's a little bit late for -- to -- firing the shot back at them on the Nook Color was you know when and Barnes noble launched that He was there there are. It's really hammering on the fact that it was an Android tablet it was their new color. -- communities are buying up the masses like the cheapest Android tablet you can and ultimately get and routing and routing area and then yes of Mars and almost switched gears of have been -- like okay it's it's a really great tablet please keep cracking it. And that I mean there is some benefits there when the new environmental first challenge that was like when the first -- eaters tree committee -- A magazine subscriptions and get them full color you get full color children's books and so there's a lot of content. From that. And so I think Antuan is now then they'll -- and David. Obviously the outlet the key to the catalyst is the -- -- -- and you know Amazon's. All Android App Store which Android market. -- issues and that. Really having -- having your own apps that would be a -- industry that it way to organize content and it seems. A lot of people gravitate to that true that store even know of that happening at it as it -- -- network bark. And I I wanna talk about how. They the fire might affect Netflix directly -- and also iTunes movies and TV's. Is this a direct competitor. To Netflix -- with Amazon prime videos and iTunes or is this a device that will also play. Videos that you might buy or buy access to elsewhere. I think that's up near I mean obviously is a way to get apps in and you know potentially Netflix concluded its own app on there and went through Mandarin App Store -- just run the Hulu is -- who left for Android that is run that on my fire. I don't not a I don't even Miami -- David -- this if if this is getting the official Google Android apps are -- only be getting I and my assumption -- has locked down to. Amazon's App Store. Like the Nook Color. It has a curator -- sort of thing that it absorbs bigger but we haven't seen Netflix and Amazon's. Absorb. And we haven't gotten in Hulu eaters it's -- India -- music gas. Now when it the other one of the other things them. With the so you might be able to every one -- -- things when I got my iPad. I didn't own a Kindle but I liked Amazon's library of electronic books I got the Kindle app for me and my iPad as my Kindle can my fire also be my Netflix. Probably not if -- if Amazon's ultimately calling the shots on what apps they're gonna support through their stories their competitive with their own services they might not let Netflix through them. Interest to but that would it wouldn't be smart or not. I -- that I don't think that it's mark -- and it. -- -- -- -- -- -- Community sort of embrace his opening -- is sort of the exact opposite that the Apple's you know one that's Connolly Apple sort hasn't forgotten cash. Out. Answer I mean if if people are gonna make compares -- -- if if the one thing Apple doesn't do is it. It will let competing things and it just -- blocks on the mechanism of -- -- -- things like magazine subscriptions. You know there's something where. You can come on and and have it and it competes about all. But then Apple gets a cut. Nothing to do it. Magazines are really interesting area here because its its -- -- -- one area I think electronic content that hasn't really. There's no winner yet. Hasn't really take off -- have music we have video we have books but magazines are still a bit of an open field isn't that these just aren't I mean if if you're usual magazine subscriber yeah it's it's really hard to make the digital push yes they're they're nice but you know -- can get like this nice piece of Paper they immediately -- your house. For like three dollars thirty dollars yet. And rented digital version might be nice pits like you know you have to wait for downloads -- account a fine -- you -- keep track commit I mean. And use digital magazines before and the nice but I. To me it's not necessarily better than analog version -- somethings are still nice is analog in magazines are actually one of them what Apple's. Plus you could you can just -- website for a lot of these magazines and other content is is still free there who -- -- paying for this digital magazine just. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- let -- come and hear from the chairman says that from. Cousin of job I guess -- -- what about the deal is that does that model work and is Amazon Netflix Amazon's role there. It's sort -- like. This -- the daily the model doesn't mean he's from Italy supports the usage has been pretty disappointing. But unless -- -- answer half million and Rupert and. I understand -- each case of the a lot of the say is -- -- none internally here at CNET is to find out how people are using tablets. I had a little large percentage of that is meaning news meeting. -- -- morning news contents on your tablet. Bit it's -- -- I think people are discount hunting and patent and finding -- the way that. You need a free online or however there are accustomed to a depth but I it to be of the -- that the audience that impulses how you use your tablet -- to capitalize on -- It would make sense -- don't think anyone's wonder what -- they -- I'm adding the one thing I think is that it the most successful what result -- laws that could lead by subscribing to the -- version. You can't -- iPad app -- has -- Yorkers and successful if there's any and stuff like -- You know the Wall Street Journal where a way to get people to continue subscribing to the clippers and well would it be the the -- work. Right you get the crash. I think it now works -- like a month or two or I was paying for this thing and I couldn't. Here's my metric if when it's sitting at my call fail -- my iPad I open up the app the New York Times that and after I finish my coffee the app still loading as not successful but -- but that's -- Now Conde Nast and -- and of course -- time magazine culture -- told WIRED Magazine we strongly believe that Amazon's buy once read everywhere model. Which means what for magazine publishers and four hardware makers. Well I mean -- and I think it means that part of Amazon's philosophy is to not just. You know they could have come out of the gate with their own for -- a special tablet that only runs their app. But the right when the -- -- was hitting -- like let's get on the iPad let's get on Android let's get everywhere we people RD field to get our content. And not be. -- exclusive about you know. How people can access our stuff so. I think also Amazon's whole thing is that they've got their cloud they've got this huge infrastructure in the background -- can hold all your staff and -- back to. On whether or not you're connecting to. You're a pattern this tablet -- your Smartphone or some Amazon connected TV so -- If you sync stuff let's talk a little bit about so that was that was this week and down next week -- that Apple that big Big Apple announcement. Let's that's bridge the gap here between fire and Apple have for between Amazon and Apple. Is the fire tablet a competitor to the iPad -- Well here's something -- thing that I heard this earlier this week and it really kind of struck me was like. Media as if it's kind of in between the iPod and the iPod hurts -- -- iPod Touch and iPad moot because iPod Touch you know it's like -- -- and boxing and the -- -- That device. And Amazon 299 dollars -- it's a means bigger and does many of the same things -- it's more like a tablet and it is a tablet but it's a smaller. -- -- the -- service that aren't exactly but I mean you can buy two of those for less than the price of one iPad. A but I want half -- one just gonna cook it. And like the hardware perspective their -- so far apart it's hard to see -- competing against each other. Like this one to 19 -- but but I if you're looking at a from the store perspective I do think that Amazon here has here is a direct competitor. To the Apple's iTunes. Apps and media stores like these are both vessels for the store behind them. And so in that -- they're definitely competitors and -- Amazon's. Is the most like what Apple is offering in the sense that they give you you all in all your music all your media all your apps all through one connected to account -- And as you say don't forget to do this is -- this -- means that this seven inch version but there's been rumors many many rumors including one recently -- -- and those are producing an inch versions. That coming -- in just a couple months so that'll be the direct iPad competitor but will Apple -- strike back with its own seven inch tablet. You know I don't think it's -- I. Probably not. David -- I mean I I think it is actually take a lot of people that are Apple -- I would consider buying. The Kindle buyer. It is an indication so to speak. But you know well. -- -- Alternate site editor so we'll pick competing directly -- you -- there's a lot of people out there that don't wanna spend five or six dollars per tablet. And those who want that are action and that's interesting now however it's something but when He guilty today. And that a lot of that they have a -- but what people got. It if you can't use it solo or countries. Also -- that it is will not be available to Canadian users and so obviously got. Species global market we need you know -- we -- not -- -- there's another part of the world. -- yet to that point authors insulin -- and reader emailed me. Noted that -- the the licensing for all content from crime may not be accessible overseas. A lot of advantages for the tablet. Need be. -- on the moon and pace sort of -- agree I don't think that. Just -- -- competes directly with Apple I do think it does compete. Everyone else and Android tablets that. That market just isn't mature enough that it is sort of vulnerable -- for the picking them asked whether that the 200 dollar price point regardless of the features is just sort of that's the killer app but there the pricing the pricing. I want one other thing is what you know -- really because they can go direct consumer they're the -- that everyone was hoping to bring cheaper tablet. What they're not Apple they've been so body that eagle on artwork and a little art. Editor. But Apple is interesting and just -- address this'll be an Apple maintains a very high margin on its products I mean the price is high up for the iPad line and start so what -- -- -- -- and -- And there are apparently making 40% on the product and that's including channel support in store support him that's that's very impressive why does Apple keep its prices so high. Because they -- -- mean they came into the market before anybody else had this and it was lower than what many of the competing tablets -- this time things are running things like windows XP. When is Vista. Which is you know frankly operates -- -- that's. Not quite designed for tablets and that's something in Microsoft's addressing with windows eight that's like coming out till next year probably -- you know with -- version that that'll run all the neat metro stuff and but I -- what they -- come back to go is this whole idea of Apple doing a seven inch tablet it's -- really makes sense and they said that a couple years ago. You know they say it -- analyst usability testing we know what people like and seven inches. It's a -- -- you need to make a little bit bigger. And that. And that doesn't mean the lineup is -- -- beacon contentious you know I mean people. People like this thirteen inch screen on on their back books I mean it can always have bigger but I think that small. Connoisseurs of varied from market Nantz. That's kind of why it's coming in as a reader product -- it's coming out as something that's very similar to what they have with the. The Kindle so I will say this that they need you already have the smaller version is called the iPod Touch and at that right we are -- that we're not sure what they're doing with where they can go -- how they can make -- any thinner -- I had seen in making it a little bit larger and beetles take advantage. You know their own books -- not looking like you know postage stamp on an iPod Touch but you know taking a more -- -- -- factor. Yet there are still yet look at the success of the reader product the Kindle particular. So is that something that Apple might consider me I realized that that be crazy considering -- focused on flash and color and motion yet but would we ever see an. I don't think so I think of anything their vision has kind of more Korean names to seek justice and it ties into -- -- lets you connect with other devices to understand things I mean like retirement earlier with the thunderbolt monitor. You complain analyst weird stuff in the back the don't have -- -- machine and then you played it through the honorable and certainly -- here that does more than it was when you bought it yet the same thing as I'm happy with the smaller devices things like -- away snapping like airplay. That can put out music or video to some other source it's kind of creating missing the device. Can be extended beyond what you get with the actual hardware. On system and like that with a seven inch tablet makes sense like you get some -- plug in May be -- constantly in use mirroring feature which is -- partner violence five. I mean it's that the future possibilities are endless but. You know each other well certainly wouldn't do -- video -- so. I I strongly think they will actually do that niche iPad and any iPad at some point. I'll end up getting -- don't mention flash Apple iPad and want -- What happens -- -- Its story know with a flash and that's a desktop look for different David -- -- can -- clashes it is. And Apple started at the looks like Microsoft's gonna finish killing flash but anyway moving on. David -- what do you think the future of electronic ink is a black and white. And all the magazine publishers want to put. Bright motion color in front of consumers what's happening to. I think they're gonna develop somebody Kindle that it could help -- notoriety since everyone gonna buy one. Quality -- Apple like anything people already have cable so it spending item 99. You know it's still you know -- the product because most people -- in your on the subway meeting RBE ink out. And they're just as they become better lighter. That the actual leading technologies and changing. It's actually pretty mature technology is point. So I think it that the future is really like this and they're gonna get to -- -- -- are you gonna be able to get you here for 49 dollars. -- I think two is all the all the a -- in just a few years a free Kindle with special offers. That He -- who would not have that just in case has something to read. You're news on on the on the trainer something else especially as it to get you in a prime bad then that then Adelson content becomes associated as this. Free and -- -- technology and now you now. -- the brave new world -- can like -- like like pull. Industry -- which you know worked pretty well. -- -- -- -- -- -- To not eat what I think that obviously -- screen. It don't work that well outside so that that put it all down. But I've been doing -- one vandalism and there is some development in front -- there's there's -- Meters sold while commonly shows I've been seeing those demos for. I -- -- dozen years. There are out there -- now. The nose of a make -- out in the market but in the technologies. Yes and then there were these weird hybrid displays we -- a question from to him about it web and that was. The hook right it was a hybrid doesn't device now I mean and how does it as you enter a display that -- to screen device. Now I mean that that the iPad the pixel document that electricity had -- curia something like that somebody made this switch between LCD and red nose and those on it and sell well there is like -- notion ink Adam. Was like the tablets no lists this year that islets. There to forget about it aged between screen one of its argument that was on boot the other day for fifty dollars someone -- -- -- You -- pitching as a way for you textbooks. It was like a little tiny Android. Tablet next when Ian Greer but it was like two different light and they were -- against. The that'll work and all of ninth and David you -- at the event. The Amazon -- then how did Jeff these those two. Is He becoming the next job to make -- pretty gutsy move to take on. Apple -- 199 dollar aunt -- Yeah I think for a while -- Model -- -- Patrick up as an agency speaks. Slowly engines. -- -- -- it before any any repeat the marketing as well over. So I mean I think they're they're dairy company -- -- -- -- a wannabe. -- Apple did not like Apple so you know I think I mean he's he's out what the media. Are out here on the. So how do we think Apple's going to expand its market if if old -- and price how's it going to expand its market. Share and doesn't care. It's already time at the top. -- not well. Yet I'm just saying good night is not internals are something like tablets and when He talked -- just -- ipads not pleasant Iowa it's a console in terms of tablets it's -- top now but it's definitely -- we can't argue that's their only threatened by the fire and and any other it -- and good -- -- come along. On those smart phone in the Smartphone market might be the most popular single model. But it is definitely threatened again by Google and I think the key here is is -- -- -- -- next week when we side WDC it's not creating this platform IOS which is on all the different devices even powers Apple TV some it's about letting developers. Just focus on one thing. And get that if that -- multiple devices I mean that's that's basically. The original premise of windows right used to get just a single platform that worked on a bunch of different hardware the difference in this case of course is that it asked me Apple's -- right. I think the -- -- him. They can do is just the quality of apps -- -- -- still seeing now the year almost a year after the introduction of honeycomb for Android. That the apps have been designed for that larger screen still. The quantity and still the measure the quantity out there for the iPad. And they're still kind of at the forefront of -- games are being ultra violence vs Android and so they have a lot of quality stuff and a lot of quantity. Of tablet apps out there that Android side of things just can't -- And between the collective impact -- if you're just getting. Apple -- -- to get out more carriers. Chief rival which picked up it will be -- -- Next week. Not even if -- if you get the iPhone. For now at 99 dollars the eight gigabyte model that automatically expand the market a lot -- now -- just like a lot cheaper Android phone. If people just don't but they don't wanna pay that much were -- in the -- -- as well. Well speaking of Android -- -- Android tablets. What does this product the the Amazon Kindle 2 to. The Samsung and and other moderately well reviewed. -- tablets. -- -- -- This is going to tell us more about what's gonna happen and because I'm really curious I don't know how they survive in the light in light of Amazon's price point content library marking -- etc. I mean I'm just looking at a price perspective. The only tablets from moving Allard seemingly. The touchpad which was a fire sale -- now. Now -- looks find discounted -- nearly 200 bucks and we'll see if it actually works but it seems like. Customers are we setting their expectations or at least learning that you don't -- the company now in a month or so -- on behalf the price. -- was actually an engineering position where I was talking to aid kind of budget tablet manufacturer ID before the Kindle -- that can fire announced -- And there -- -- 299. Dollar in that range. On tablets and the -- day after the -- -- follow up with me with like a response like all the things that. You know we've still make our product relevant and there's some good things like -- not tied down to one particular. Place to get your apps or your books. You know you can cited low content on the SD card and got cameras got all that but I still think. There is in the same way that -- -- what Apple's done there is some comfort. Almost in having that restriction in that the paradox of choice is taken away from -- you're getting content you on the Amazon freedom through slavery yet I know well that's it you Euro buying into the Amazon -- -- if -- are you a -- in a person with a lot of people are this is that great device that monetize all this things together and that's like that's. Hard to argue -- -- this in the back in mind you know kind of if it breaks you've got Amazon to contact him bothered their kind to big to ignore you. Canada interest thing art one quick question from the chat room and -- will wrap it up this is -- random rumor -- and I and CT reminded me of this -- What does everyone think about Amazon buying webos. It is on the market rally Firestone price speaking of -- -- tablets. With the project. I think it's gonna be really nice if anyone I mean if anyone could do anything with it'll take another -- makers. But maybe Samsung but -- Panasonic is probably shouldn't focus the resources there that. I noted. -- -- -- themselves apart. The Kindle fires or -- or be locked down and it's not really an Android tablets have its own. Amazon tablet why not if it's cheap enough that it's got some great IP why not -- the. I I don't think -- I think elected but before it be that they'll put out there won't vote -- at. And I'm like hey I got out here as -- work so well. Big big -- if -- at least. Gained Android Smartphone. And -- -- adult lap certainly I would -- Apple under development right now. -- awesome and as that cam in the chat -- says it'll be called Veoh is will be called these notes -- -- but these lists this. All right final words let's start. In New York David any final words on what to expect next week it would what do you think it was obviously programs -- -- That'll be -- the beauty is cheaper version of the iPhone four and it will be a new iPhone. -- -- design. Okay and quick take on the intelligence -- -- the power of what Amazon did. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- a great -- with error there and leading out would be drawback of the device so. The public act. Actually get there get her -- bought it. Whether it is all it's cracked up -- better -- no one has actually. -- -- -- -- Terry Apple like -- can. Well for next week I am hoping as well as to him that the two devices I feel like if it's just an iPhone four -- or some souped up version. There's going to be huge about -- backlash concerning how much -- along we've waited. -- -- for Amazon. It's -- a price that think they they. It -- really jump pushing night especially with the candles they he'd never meant it never mentioned that. The prices that -- listed to a little ones -- the special offers. A -- -- everyone wants an ad supported. Donald what He -- -- your beat which -- Tablets I I think that people have shown how much they -- cheap tablets can't sell this gonna be another one that's gonna steal a lot of a lot of marketshare from. Lot of companies have been trying to get convince people to come down just a few hundred dollars from the iPad to buy their tablet. Now -- in a tough position because it's viewed now only the get that the hardware but you get all the services all the trestle the brand loyalty -- with Amazon behind the and no one else can can match them. Finally Joshua quick question and before wrap up from the chat amounts of who have -- winners -- -- actually coming out. Series of saying they have -- variants. Like. -- cabinet. For an event like this actually continue giving that final version to developers. -- to play with that day and then actually releasing a version just before the phone -- or with the phone when it comes out -- and so I mean it's pretty safe bet that we won't actually it's a -- the next iPhone on Tuesday and we'll definitely see it I think I was five senses and so long since the last eight out there for developers I think it's you know it's very nearly done it's been very nearly done for awhile. And finally we're gonna end with you Josh what them. Are -- excited about the Tuesday event at what do you think how you think Tim -- gonna do he's at present -- right yeah I mean it hears a thing Tim Cook. He's he's given presentations for a long time you know -- has been on medical leave a couple times. You know He He also is kinda -- mining -- further investor meetings -- the investment calls like He knows how to run a show I'm not concerned about that. And you got guys like. Scott forestall who runs on IOS influence kind of you know very charismatic and he's going to be running on -- -- -- -- you know can't talk about the new stuff. Yeah I mean I'm really hoping to be blown away because I think if a lot of people are just expecting a faster song with a better camera and -- -- different design at. No I don't know if that's enough to really make people excited over it over something like entrant. Are you expecting to be surprised. I hope to express -- we're gonna close at their by the way everybody who's watching the show has been watching our Amazon Kindle a coverage. If you thought the -- -- Kindle. Completely extensively just wait till next week for the Apple announcement. Just of course who's gonna be -- live blog Josh you're gonna be there yet I'll be there with Kent. -- so we're gonna have we're it will will have a live blog of the event on it's Tuesday October evening at 10 AM Pacific -- and you'll be ruled He -- then. -- -- And in Pacific gets so in a lunchtime for you New York folks there with. Marking time for New York folks -- -- -- -- martini when the days of so we'll be doing that will will have a lot of coverage in the in in the day leading up to that and of course after the event all the analysis will be on cnet.com. Donald bell Josh -- and -- saying David Carnoy thank you so much for joining thank you Stephen for producing. Thanks everyone for watching reporters' roundtable next week at this time a recorded show. We're going to be a bit too great interviews -- lining up we're going to be talking about. The consumers nation of IT otherwise known as quite -- the stupid acronym but this this show is about how you can take. The iPhone or the Android tablet or though laptop or whatever that you buy yourself. Into your place of work and help IT actually like it and support you in the ways that you need it and how IT is dealing with the fact. That consumers are now running the zoo and not them to very important trend in -- -- aboard -- for every consumer has a job so. Don't miss that show that's a week from today 10 AM Friday a the next. Thanks ever for watching -- that report.