Ep. 56: Getting the message on e-mail

I -- -- to reporters roundtable -- needle in San Francisco this is our deep dive into a single tech -- a week. And this week we're talking about email. Now recent announcements have shone a spotlight on email -- like -- you might mean people have forgotten exists AOL announced its new email platform for consumers called Phoenix. And then a day or two later FaceBook launched its revamped private messaging service which will actually give all 500 million users the option to have FaceBook dot com email addresses so email one. One of the oldest communications mechanisms on the Internet actually older than the web itself. Is in the news again. And these new modern email platforms aren't just email. AOL's integrates instant messaging and Twitter -- -- SMS and and Facebook's chat function traditional email as we know it is changing. Some would say it's actually Donnie. Gartner research group Gartner says that 20% of workers will use social networks as their primary vehicle for business communication -- -- -- Fourteen that's according to a PC world store called future email. So what is the actual future of this old old platform and to discuss this today -- -- two great experts on the topic. First of all in the studio with us. Joshua Baer -- the CEO of the email company other inbox. Which recently launched a new product called. Organizer organizer which you should check out I have and it's really good at that -- the reason -- invited them in here. This company makes -- some really cool little service that will automatically file all your commercial messages or bacon. Into sub folders for you. Its spinoff and an improvement of their original email organization -- product that and you have different -- for everyone. Clearly Josh has been thinking about solving email issues for quite awhile what happened with us -- award academy before that by the way before destructive email marketing and then I think as penance. He went and worked for chronicled on sub central. After that so he's been on all sides of these issues. And I joining us via Skype we have Charlene Li who is the founder of the altimeter group which is the technology advisory firm. -- has been writing some great stuff about email as the post on the topic a right now and she's author of two books. Open leadership how social technology and transform the way U lead. And groundswell winning the world transformed by so winning in a world transformed by social technologies -- thank you for joining us and the so let's get started. Is -- dead let's start with easy topic the easy one yet Josh. Now I don't think he -- that all. Emails just like everything is gonna continue to change but -- my eating -- bigger than ever. I think there's two ways to look at email one is. What's the high of all communications and an -- something that's always changing right then it. -- what types of things we send over email will change in some things that we used to send three email me who use social networks for now. But the same time email itself I feel it is still getting bigger and bigger every day. When I started my personal company wants fifteen years ago when the first thing I realize was -- look for NASA you know what. Every day the next ten years. Some companies can wake up and say you know what. Should starting knowing my customers you know I've got all the customers I've actually personally that's who actually talk to -- and you know what companies are still doing today. And so there's still more email being sent I still get more email than I used to get a year ago or -- before. But it is changing and so some things I used yet by email app in different ways speculate you know as a channel itself is still growing. And is still really essential to powering many of the social media sites and other things that that. Our claim to be replacing -- Agreed all of that out and out -- one thing it's not already. Changing its diminishing importance -- Because it's in many ways the primary way to communicate. They easily person in good with people especially when it comes -- communicating with each other. It on music and more EC at its own and it -- it's on my land line my house. But in many ways you aren't I -- placement -- not even use that money market used a small arms. So I definitely agree with Josh that is something a central and a -- size of my inbox to Macs that's it's just it's growing all the time. But I think that consumers are looking bright seeking out different ways to communicate. In I think that's one of the stresses that -- -- What of the things that Mark Zuckerberg said when he launched its messages the -- FaceBook messages. He was pointing out that younger the younger demographic people who were growing up on. Right now going through collagen using FaceBook a lot see email as overly formal which by that -- -- slow. -- I mentioned in the introduction the Gartner study saying that 20% of workers will be using social networks as their primary mechanism for communication. How important is that trend to. Emailed us the social networks they separate or. -- What happens when this younger demographic comes into the workforce and butts heads with guys like me or like send me an -- -- talk. It was because of. -- of -- of looking at things I think in some ways that's like saying well. Young kids aren't playing golf and -- -- driving fancy sports cars soon you know they're never gonna go do that and it's just that it's not the right time than it gains in the don't have access to it. I'm I think that as. The younger people move into the workforce and they are gonna have a need for organized persistent conversations they're gonna be need for conduct themselves in a more formal way in order to do their jobs and -- To take care of other parts of their lives. And that's just I think that's just and they'll grow in Q so I don't think it. Necessarily makes sense to -- young people say oh because they don't use email they never will -- you -- it's gonna change. But point taken and it meant -- -- over to Charlene and add. When new technology users come on board come online they do tend to change the way -- everybody uses technology the F. Yes they do and it's -- getting started it Peter people who they communicate with. But it also means that if you want to reach somebody who uses primarily -- -- -- giving each other. They you need to respect that and expand tax and and a back east Burke did open up. It's messaging system communications December means that. -- it's easier for me out to be able to reach those people who -- to be Internet channel. I think -- it's not so much about them weekly email as it is about -- -- into our purple but it existing and dominant way that people. Communicate at. In and not just when it email. Chat it's taxing it at trader in many ways -- -- DM as are excellent voice. So EE integration and quality into unified communications act Ormond street at the direction things will be get. It doesn't matter how each -- -- MP but. I still like to meet up -- it it hit me FaceBook email address and that's how to get into the system and still be but. It it's respecting the fact that I can just reach anybody anywhere and -- and speak. So let's talk about FaceBook messages obviously AOL launched this thing and then -- completely forgotten because FaceBook launched messages which is I must've -- six radio hits and TV spots on on that. Platform. How big -- deal is FaceBook adding -- at FaceBook dot com address all its users -- if they want it how important -- messages. Either -- -- start with that. Yasser I think it's unique art speech had its it's it's -- -- it's actually 350 million. -- have a good question the use copies -- messages. On and it is act eater and that's comparison to the degree 63 million copy which is the largest. So it's a huge -- that instantly you to meet all these people are available now it does mean that it would use it. But I finally got on at night the first -- I didn't system. And it really is easy because now I can send email to people I know I'll -- them potentially. -- what -- user says that users are. And I can also send messages out a bass is just as our way to people from outside -- -- Now this isn't gonna -- all the people it's gonna be for the people use it primarily I believe -- there's actual -- right to the back are saying. It's starting to use -- answer I'm agent -- It also means that if somebody. Puts Apple -- -- mother that she doesn't have been gaining arts about where I -- -- excited a.s to just -- these. Now other inbox makes -- Here in the business of helping people organize their email and FaceBook messages and -- -- because kind of issues organization is just. The subject line is the relationship there is no other subjects -- how does this what are your thoughts on the direction that FaceBook is going with messages. While. I think telling me a bunch of great points batted in and it's easy for people to think oh this is just email and and I think it's much bigger than. And if you look at how -- over others described it it's. It's much more of a way to -- Access the current kinds of -- that are happening in FaceBook over chat and over -- past NASA other channels. And be able to access that through email to insert yourself into that stream through email. But as opposed to a way to do what we traditionally done through email. Through FaceBook. And so I think in that way it's you know it's it's it it's gonna be really empowering its gonna cause people to do more chat as -- said it's gonna let. FaceBook pull in other participants in to those chats that need he wouldn't participated before -- wouldn't be able to do so so easily. But from our perspective. It's really a different kind of world the types he knows that we're focused on receipts from Amazon. In notifications from other social networking sites. That newsletters from your schoolers things like that -- doesn't think people continue to get in their email address and that they're they're they're court -- -- account. And those are the types of things that we're gonna organized for them and. Now one of the things that. -- said that. There's a lot of a lot of businesses as businesses are still. Waking up in the morning thing you know what I really should be reaching potential and existing customers through email. But people have businesses have been doing that for a long time and somewhere kind of post that and -- nothing you know what. Emails only got me so far now I'm gonna start trying to reach people through FaceBook and Twitter and and Yelp or foursquare or whatever so people are trying to use other new modern mechanisms to reach their customers. Do you see that. Businesses might start to fall off of using existing email and find other methods and more efficient or productive. You know I've I've heard of one example I'm tired -- remember -- which company was accompanied it. Actually said -- not stop sending -- -- -- other channels but I think the bigger message there is you need to go where your customers are. And so you -- reach them however what however you can bet that's convenient for them so for some of them that in an email for some of them at -- -- social media and some other channels at the same time. Most markers and it recognized that heals very effective it works really well and causes results when you -- having email list and you send something out people. The click on those things they read them and -- come back and so the more that they can possibly. That creates an incentive to try to get their users to. Sign up across multiple channels may be promote their email list through social media so they can building analyst as well because that still -- effective. Charlie what do you think will would you witnesses -- big chance here in this room to talk all the small business or listening to us. We could encourage people to use email send out commercial messages or we could say you know what look at something else enlighten our inbox -- what's your take. I I think emails so there are wild planet has. -- limitations because it was among the -- Croat half a relationship with somebody that that he doesn't eat out and explain why it's not -- way. Versus thanks Apple if you like the -- -- -- -- -- company. That potentially right now are you get businesses that -- -- but actually getting to your box. Into not just friends to your life with that you follow -- -- -- privileged status to get in there and also begin haven't. I think about there is happening a group for Apple the -- messaging and offers very similar to what's happening email. But has a different dynamic it can become -- -- and spread between well. Malta would don't -- it is our operators get hung up and sometimes they. But in many places like that on it is entity or an talked about and discuss and read it. So I think aren't dependent variations in I think the key -- here is that emails or -- it or it. For certain types of relationships are acacia. And newsletters and updates but during an eight most small businesses are not. Beauty if there is staying away from the other eight email works really well they're missing the boat -- competitors getting on. So they need to experiment is it kind of new relationships and we actually -- -- -- summarize what you're saying here -- that. Email while it's easy enough to forwarding email it is not doesn't feel as viral with some of the other mechanisms and the other communications platforms that we're using right now. A -- -- -- either right you could just -- to all your hundreds of -- -- right speaking of commercial messages we're going to take a group quick one right now and we'll come back we're gonna talk about spam. Molly -- and practically inviting you to join us for the 2010 edition of cnet's holiday help desk that happens every Monday at 1 PM Pacific 4 PM eastern starting November 22. It's where we make you look like a brilliant tech gift giver as we take your live calls and we feel your emails in fact. Send us an email right now holiday helped -- at cnet.com and along with the rest of cnet's editors will point you to the right product at the right price. Holiday help desk Mondays at 1 PM Pacific time starting November 22 at cnet.com slash life. All right so let's talk about spam that was such a big topic years -- years ago I still get -- -- billion spam messages a day but. They don't bug me so much anymore. Josh your business is actually organizing not spam so much but commercial messages that netherworld between the unwanted you know pharmaceutical -- and the message from -- You know spout that you -- -- hear the commercial messages the bacon -- that stand for. And he stands for and it's it's the stuff between spam and hand -- right okay that's -- That's talk about that the rise of the priority in -- and built their personal tell -- a little bit I don't. -- -- -- -- but health that the problem you're trying to solve in the pop up early in boxes built. Sure well -- the problem we're focused on is that after the spam filter gets rid of all that you know the two don't. There's still all kinds of things that clutter my mailbox or that that need I don't have time to read right away that -- actually signed up to protect the -- -- -- yes please send instant. I like the analogy of deal that the Chinese buffet that sometimes your eyes are bigger than your stomach when -- -- up to nineteen your plate without tying him with email. I can I think most people I talked to would say that they get too much penal right now and yet everyday I sign up for more email I sign up for -- sites -- senate for the things -- more boxes and things anymore. And so whatever embarks does it helps you manage that by getting a lot of those messages out of the way filed an organized so that. When you get up in the morning instead of having a mailbox full of all kinds of messages. The first things you see of the emails from real people -- -- the most important it probably need to respond queue and when your time you -- with who has others. So what do you think about these new announcements first of all the FaceBook is saying that that your priority in -- is going to be your friends. And -- friends of friends but whatever. Google is saying the priority in -- going to be some special logger them. What's your take on and -- you can -- -- here -- as well your take on. The need for these kind of smart filters and are they gonna start missing thing. You know what emails are very personal thing everybody uses it differently so I don't think it's that there's gonna be one solution works for everybody. I know I -- of the people that I know that have tried parity in box from Gmail about half of them think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread it's really helping them be more productive. Then probably about half films and you know what. It's not really working -- -- I'd rather just have my regular -- and I think we'll see we'll see things like that in general I think it's it's something that's gonna be helpful in in -- success. Surely there are two approaches were talking about here Google's algorithmic wired party inbox and Facebook's very strict. Friend or not friend -- -- what's your take on the way this is going. Anonymous industry -- or not it's the biggest thing since sliced bread into a city using -- And I think the problem is that it's it's such a sophisticated algorithm and you can add to written it quick and it can go to -- -- -- -- basic. I don't have time and actually trainee. -- priority -- box. Because one of the things that I liked about other inbox and also away with that at face that -- It's pretty clear how to organize and analog is I have confidence -- it. When it's a search algorithm shrapnel when it organizer web information anyways I'll trust -- The winning an alien bugs are pretty -- operator like how that works and it's an older people. -- -- Not transparent and I see -- and -- gradient box and let it shouldn't be in there -- that diminishes by -- In the -- -- other and so it is not stuff yeah. The -- Judges approach the other hand bots are based on the transparency and that is really. To -- a bigger I agree with those comments for sure. At a bigger level I think these types of tools are needed because you get -- -- is being really an issue and last night I was at a dinner -- in in in the Bay Area. Called inbox love it was a whole bunch of email experts and people focused on email and one of the things that we all agreed on that night is its BM is it really big problem for consumers anymore. And actually we found with other remarks as well that most people we talked you feel like it don't get a lot of speed on traditional -- we talk about in their inbox it's a problem that mail providers have to deal with if the to be diligent about it block it. They're doing pretty good job. And so then what's the next step its its okay now how to write I'm still getting too much email -- got rid of the spam they're still too much and tools like parity inbox and the social inbox for all things to help us manage that. Just there a brief digression here. He wasn't too long ago that we were all bemoaning spam that was you know -- the billion messages -- day it was going to. Called the plan -- the collapse upon itself. Now like you're saying -- it's not that much an -- how did spam. Get solved if if what you're saying is true what happened that it became so much of a non issue for some people. One of the -- and -- developments over the past few years has been the development of -- sophisticated. Reputation system based on IP addresses and domain names and also new ways of authenticated -- securing email. And those things they take many years -- to take effect but now. Many of the largest commercial senders that are sending lots of email are taking extra steps to make sure that -- -- properly set up and -- side. Which helps email providers to make the difference when they're looking at spam and say okay we know what's good. We -- what's bad and and also taking into account all the user feedback they get from people clicking this is spam and learning. Just -- and very sophisticated systems that learn. How to distinguish went from another one. Throwing it off and it. I agree I think if you go ages eight to see how it comes at a their social out where where it nothing replaces this then -- -- -- -- -- -- a hundred people got that -- eat out 99% of them actually it is. But it so it EE -- you -- -- -- is -- -- but because the issues always been false positives what is this actually isn't right. Speak out and so. -- humane aspects -- basis to believe Britain I spam political aisle and almost well. Almost no mobile email and so the company -- caucus again and terms that are seeing is really high. I find my spam folder entered and yet allows those -- -- last -- as well most people there agreed that they don't need feeling need to check their spam folder and our the only person today did with Scoble. And he's you know he's in Cleveland not -- -- everything what any and he EE -- you're looking for incoming news and other things that -- might slip through but most people feel like it they don't need to check. And anymore. All right we haven't talked about AOL. Ale well. Kind of took the mantle from Compuserve as the system that everybody kind of wanted the message access and everybody kind of want to forget but they've launched this new thing it's not out for everybody right Phoenix is coming up. But some people are -- I haven't I have a love dot com address with AOL on -- dot com and got my love that I just love I'd love that. None could AOL have a rebirth as in email provider. I can tell I think they're doing a great job really really impressed that they'll take people from Hotmail and Gmail and -- again I. And only keep referring to last night -- this is a topic cannot last as well and and a researcher there was talking about why people adopted Gmail. And as much as we can spout on all -- technical reasons about better searchers -- of the things like that in his research what he found was the number one of the biggest reasons. Was that people could get their own name. Without a bunch of numbers did -- get a new -- mean it sounds really simple but. That's something ills really playing optimism and you to latched onto right away I get press access and that might I think my parents every day that my name is unusual. You're the first you're gonna get Josh or whatever you want if you're the first one in there but then my buddy just -- -- them all he's gonna have to be -- Stewart -- -- -- -- the other I mean so. -- that's true but that applicant that's one effect that can cause a bunch people who don't try something you know you know and and and then -- continue to innovate on. Charlie what you think about -- prospect. It's really hard and they get it in -- they allow -- to keep its existing users happy -- which. And -- and -- based -- it's a matter around beat it but that trainer to pretty bats they -- And in the back singled out. Three. Visibly. It does say let you know -- not yes you know your grandparents email address in -- usable and -- to get look at us. Media functionality -- some people went I think it's going to be -- art because that's a pretty easy each add and -- people. Their TV as well as every other their email provider is -- second Tuesday it is to build -- -- may switching cost is RO. And one of the biggest ones that everyone has your email at its -- expects. So -- that it is an embassy you need to more incentives not switches that we're gonna keep adding better and better functionality so it's -- email to my knee in terms of usefulness and cities those are networks that -- keeping heat a house. It considers saint ability -- -- many reasons so architecture. Now one of the things that many. Communication providers have tried to do including AOL with their new Phoenix project. The new rock -- browser for example is there aggregating these communications systems together. AOL does it now. FaceBook is doing it sort of rock -- does it. There are trying to build the universe when -- -- I have been covering technology for. Far too long and I've seen so many businesses and -- break their ships on we're going to be the universal inbox for everything. Why is that so hard personal do people want it and secondly. Why -- it's so hard to do. They can't figure -- is actually the more important one is people want to compete he won it in certain circumstances. In other words to that is the only way. Primary rate -- forcing me to get my voice -- right text like chat everything it isn't one unit are committed it. Black art that network. I think the most natural Apple chats texting and messaging is a book all works really well together -- an actual expenses and might each. There are worries that the app easy Google will be chatting and get an -- also -- chromium or Google or operates eighteen get -- text. Of your email. So I think it's a natural low evolution and it's not gonna -- -- every watt it's an issue I think -- choice. That you have -- -- option to meet every day. And web places that -- you want to use it. But as I was talking about before it got just about you using an -- nexus Apogee each -- So that they don't activate they have that mental looked up tingle of hydrogen -- ray might find it I think about it at this -- -- it is what it is I have. -- -- -- -- I think those are as a great points like it when he's always comes back -- is he knows what personal and people use lots of different ways so there's not gonna be one answer that works for everybody. Let's talk about mobile -- big deal everybody is. Has an email enabled phone one way or the other a lot of people a Smartphone for full on email clients how important is. Email in the world of mobile when so much of our communications right now. Leave the nuclear generation is on SMS -- tax. Email is mobile. I think it act he'll need in these days if you're planning -- -- -- you're not thinking about how this is handled mobile if that's not your first consideration you probably making a mistake. Because it it it's already a huge chunk of how people access their email and -- it is through their mobile devices and it's only gonna grow. So I think it that you I think it's not. Mobile a part of email I think he -- start thinking like mold in mobile is a little hand in your particular case you're service is is is kind of walking around agnostic I mean that you're back insert that you filter -- messages for people but the do you have a mobile strategy years. -- like -- said there are our service because it works on the back and it makes your desktop you know better in makes your mobile you know better. But we actually we thought a lot about and we I don't have anything to announce today but we we're working really hard on how do we need. Did detect them the technology and experience that we've developed. Really powerful mobile and differentiated you know we're we're not -- make a different -- to just read your mail and mobile but maybe there's ways. The organization tagging that we do can -- the mobile device more more efficient more helpful. They're -- what does that rise of Smartphones and. Mobile always connected -- mean to that -- -- Well that and -- -- -- even has his special albums segmentation area in your -- but it's at least segment that -- is this is my email as voice messaging does web. Sometimes have it on my own now -- I expect that isn't on my -- -- doesn't hate. Frankly that all of these things that I can stare -- desktop are becoming organ -- and I own sister -- supper. So I see some places where you -- your messages he get your messages and phone. I'm sorry it messages and -- email and text all the while place economics together a -- abuse -- not quite sure how to -- -- -- -- Texas. Email that's getting resolved marks but as I each -- coming and -- up messengers -- the -- passenger app aren't being integrated into. Eight began isn't rated. EU it's appropriate. -- We haven't talked much about some of the incumbents in the email space Microsoft Google. We -- and and Yahoo! all these -- -- The email providers let's talk button their. How important the changes that are coming along with AOL and FaceBook are to them. And handicap -- house Microsoft and do them which one is -- Microsoft. There's Microsoft Google Yahoo!. How important is keeping the users to them -- -- They have other services of the casino matter. I think you'll find that they all the email really matters -- -- that -- -- -- asset well it may not be something that they directly drive a lot of revenue from is a core component of bringing their users back to their site everyday and and they all -- a great value on and realize that that's huge asset to protect and how are they going to protect. Well they're doing things first -- all -- In two -- just like FaceBook increased email. They're doing things to embrace social media and bring those things in them. All three of the providers that you mentioned Microsoft Yahoo! and Google are all working on ways to make your inbox more interactive. To allow you to take actions on the emails that you get within your email client without going to -- For example may be accepting a friend request right within the -- that you received or when you get a group on message -- act on that group on right away. And so these are things that traditionally because of security requirements in the past emails have been released that it can't run JavaScript the more limited in what they can do. And they're looking at how they can make them more interactive more dynamic to allow you to stay in the -- knots and you -- Other sites now Charlie let me ask you this one of the things that we haven't talked about too much is traditional corporate email -- when I think -- -- here we all thought about. -- and and web based email but Microsoft also has outlook and exchange their back and email service and what happens to. Corporate. On premises email services as -- -- as consumers move pretty much universally to hosted web based email. I -- becomes a bit easier because in that environment and lots in the same client -- And outlook treatment as social connector and Lotus Notes also has -- -- where. You can see an email address to -- matte look into that -- cloud Bloomington -- out. So you actually know who they are so they're very confident that that little reported honored that actually -- easy -- Gmail and other web based now. And those these are the Guinea and it it easy just turn not. That I can directly going -- a lot to -- -- -- contacts. Or your inbox. The I think it does also dust that -- you understand the logic that I can't -- -- -- -- -- in my -- book. Or -- I -- I call -- person aren't -- Or that in my calendar for sometime next week. -- -- -- Ares contacts inside your communications -- and your office productivity suite can actually help you organized and box in some ways. Adding to -- instead the the mitigated its inside -- email but also the it and optics. It. Okay. That actually things -- -- -- -- -- in that space where they have. Take all this information together and give -- -- sidebar and breakers to see what they're up in it and only record your last night any any hints on an hour's up he's going. But now when you get any secrets from them. I'll -- them up -- Are right now let's let's talk about the future -- little bit. I cubic year old I've got a four year old RRR kids when their art IH going to be using email. Yeah that's a great question I'm acting in some ways -- can depend on what their job is what -- -- you know how how how they function with. What they're looking need to give them on -- in the case of this this that this statistic from Gartner -- 20% of -- -- mutations happen through social media in the future. I would think I don't know that I didn't read that study but I would think that those text communications will probably certain types of businesses where it makes more sense to do that are certain types of small businesses. It's I think in the same way it's gonna depend on what are what what their jobs -- what they do it may be that they don't have a need for those types of communications and they're able to. Communicate through things like -- FaceBook messages in a more informal way but Europe I think -- the majority of them. They will lead to do it they're gonna still have a need for more formal type of communication -- persistent. Message stories and subjects in threads at the things that you really enable business had to say. You know what -- him right now is. Every now that I connect with an old friend and there are old friends right now that I'm talking to electronically. That whose email addresses I don't know another and other -- I know them -- FaceBook. And we're communicating and as we are going up -- -- that's just. I just find -- -- but there are people I could know some I couldn't be without knowing your FaceBook actress -- -- Europe email address is not a good thing. I don't know but I find it weird but not -- segment I know this person the I can reach Benito and email. But you I don't know your email happened on FaceBook. -- I know I think in the and that's Alina if the last phone numbers and email addresses and other things -- -- your member of the -- Charlie what do you think we're where we can. It's -- that I. Ia that it that you just put it down to send -- -- each -- each with a message. That message could be -- it could be chat could be taxed it could be any day and I can reach. -- think that -- -- -- to ask is well hasn't CPU. Mean UK RH untrained ears now. I'm not convinced that it will because the radio -- And it if -- he can use to other systems. I don't know if that's and he it will eat at east of the Caribbean and -- -- actually did it but doctors talking about. -- sort of regional activity on I -- messaging was still be very very very very day. An -- that I can't add to that output an attachment to DCC you're right inside my social inbox today. I think that's so easily messes storage and Ghana today that X or key messages is that -- is that as I can do before. I can potentially enable -- these are all things that I can potentially -- each share. Easily Andy 2030 years now. I think the real value here is that even today -- back that I can each -- -- no idea what the speech. That it. Shatter any -- on the -- And it's not this -- not copy paste. I do believe that these systems will be. Or any social network any place -- You know -- and there's another bigger question here about identity. Right and it used to be for -- while it. You can be identified by your name and then it was -- your phone number and for a lot of people it was -- email address and that's starting to change. And now now miniature Twitter handle on you know that -- your unique identifier that. It that that only goes to you but that's a problem I think we're gonna have to solve globally. As we become you know go a global civilization of how do you identify a person and you know nobody wants remember a big string of numbers or or keynote. And email address that -- doesn't make you think of for relate to that person. That's a very interesting discussion I mean today we do we do not have a global name space right now I mean everybody has -- -- name but they're probably other -- bears out there. I found a whole -- on FaceBook really didn't -- there are no other rate -- as far as I can tell. I and I I'll have you know that I I bought I wear my son Leo the -- dot com -- -- I'm holding in trust until is a team but of course by then. We're gonna go to gigs yet -- so he could he could run -- zone you know email server. That's a big issue I am an identity and were kind of -- of tiger and any thoughts on as you know all the systems -- together. Voice chat email. How we identify ourselves in the marina to figure that out it's an evolution right -- the only head of a first name and then you urge on the -- -- and -- any other kind of all evolved from there and and even now we know it doesn't that that doesn't -- the even just -- -- numbers like that we really need to find a new way to think about. Identity -- and how we can uniquely. Talk to individual people and everybody thinking about naming your child right now the weirder the name the better -- only -- but it via turning. I'm I think that's the beauty be sent out their phone numbers for example mobile phone number idea email all in -- the problem is that it's not just one identity that will -- -- -- I'm NAV the open ATI. Movement is an indication that there are many different Keating is the epic battery. The identities and -- whereas take you as it did it say that these are arguable ways that are my academic authors directors and part of -- -- -- all of them are equally. As -- on -- available and I choose. I -- identity. So user base at any battery and it is way to go UC -- -- that it's never gonna be one. Com but they will be universe. -- -- -- -- -- -- That brings up the another small issue which is the idea permission -- permission I mean it if you know my email address you can reach me. And -- at the -- sample -- will come to me -- -- and that's rate at cnet.com and they -- the find me on FaceBook. I have to approve you for you to get to my -- -- of a friend. Well but well it only if you want to go just to go to the prep the social and that -- -- still gets you -- closed on the other box right. But at these things come together now. I want I might be fine with everybody knowing my email address but I don't want everybody -- my phone. Or my I am Twitter -- FaceBook mail email yes I am -- So. How are we going to manage the permission because -- The test -- with -- Facebook's privacy controls which are ridiculous. They're just they're too complicated most people don't touch so what are the improvements -- the changes that. We need in order to manage permissions. And like a who's doing it. -- I I think you particularly you look at what accents the fact that you cannot get access -- agent to all of our in the most cases. I'm onto -- text and call log your email at this you email -- you -- it on it. All that metadata can actually help you understand and -- your communications because of missions as hay if that person has been happy I back to them that's probably good indication that -- and I want this beach and attacks. So that person can get to do that and only plan and Mandarin and debit with a median to a secondary -- median -- or other out odors. Is so it management setting these rules on it in a very each -- -- which is what is it aren't. It's. You actually begin to understand the true relationship between people and -- a change. So right now -- she checks are saying -- it is but but clearly it in saint chat. To be able to reach age. So we don't have the open management it don't have a communication management of our -- -- and meet it by axes to our various channels so -- -- Google attacks are very few people can actually call me. Uncertain -- all numbers. So in it that app can't wait a -- and box is at it in email address. Those -- in -- ways that will continue to deal but he get the -- -- -- meet those types of is that information. I'm axis into your communications app market -- -- -- is a lot easier. They -- I think. It we have to be careful not to just look at the three of us. And say what do we want what we need because obviously are you know we have we in the -- that -- and we have a lot of people trying to reach -- in a lot of ways and I think there are other people who may not actually care if of the people that they do -- to talk to them if they have they can contact -- any differently because there just aren't that many people trying to contact them so frequently. -- in the -- when things that Charlie mentioned earlier really resonates with me is people don't wanna manage it. They don't want to configure bunch of rules they don't wanna make a bunch of decisions you just want to work and they want to work right and and at the right time and I think we're on the cusp of something here where. You in the next few years as. Computing power -- -- more more powerful and as we've been able to tie a lot of these different things together and to get the context Charlie was talking about. The computer going to be able to do much better job than ever have before and I think that's gonna let us not have to worry about -- much. I hope you're right. We -- at a time just -- from other inbox dot com thank you for joining us. Charlene Li from altimeter group Charlie has a great post on her blog Charlene Li dot com with Al IA leak. Called FaceBook messages challenges traditional email and portals encourage you to read about the link into the -- of Stirling thanks for joining us. -- We will be back with reporters roundtable on December 3 we're gonna -- for the Thanksgiving week sorry about that. You can follow me on Twitter for news about the next show that's. -- -- -- an eye on what's next contact. -- with ideas for your favorite shows roundtable at cnet.com. And find show notes and all the links and stuff we're talking about it reporters' roundtable Latina backup -- again thanks for coming in. -- -- Our senior you can't see around a conference circuit. -- take care everyone.