This COVID-19 pandemic is fought almost as much with data as it is with medicine and masks.
And yet this pandemic also arrived almost exactly at the same time as a significant wave of consumer pushback about how their data is gathered by whom and how it's used.
So now what?
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Victoria Patrick can help us figure that out.
She is e-marketer Principal analyst and has just been issuing a new report called consumer privacy in the age of COVID-19, a really interesting sort of intersection right there.
Victoria most of us think about data and privacy around this pandemic as contact tracing that we hear is being started or being proposed.
But you outlined a lot of other things that are going on out there.
What are some of those?
There's really a lot of data that needs to be collected number one to help the authorities to help the health researchers understand actually what's going on and try to, find treatments find a vaccine for this virus.
So they need to know number one, what is it?
And learn more about it.
Then they need to track and trace, and that's where you're coming, that's where some of this technology with the with the phone apps, the contact tracing apps.
Comes in.
But that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the data that's really being collected.
And depending on the country we're talking about, there are some countries in the world where they're really you know, very aggressive.
In terms of facial recognition, credit card transactions, really gathering location information, there's a lot of information that's being gathered right now, and being used in different ways.
To try to kind of fight this virus and tamp it down in different ways.
It's interesting as I was reading your report, it reminded me that when I say surveillance or even someone says it to me, my mind tends to go where we traditionally thought.
Which is cameras in big cities like London or New York or someone up on a rooftop with binoculars, old spy movie type stuff.
But surveillance.
Isn't so much optical and visual anymore.
The things you're outlining are not about looking at someone all the time.
Really when we talk about surveillance, I mean there is the traditional kind of surveillance.
Some of the countries like China, Russia they are using security cameras.
But then what they're doing is they're taking all of this information, your web browsing information, maybe your social media information, your phone, location, different types of things in some countries, people are giving.
Consent to apps to track them.
Yeah.
And now, with artificial intelligence, all of this information can be triangulated with other information online in so many new ways but we're not just talking anymore about Somebody's wearing a wire or a secret camera somewhere.
The ways and the techniques we have now to take what looked like disparate data that didn't really-
Right
Connect to each other in the past
It all comes together into this interesting mosaic about people, doesn't it?
Right.
And and that's what I think people don't understand is sometimes you have different apps or different companies that are collecting your data and they're saying we're anonymizing it, but then when you start matching it up with other data and other databases that in many cases Either publically available or consensually given, you can start to really figure out exactly who you are talking about.
I think-
Yeah, all of this become part of the it's almost like I think like a fingerprint which if you had just one of the lines or [UNKNOWN] I guess they call them You couldn't tell who it is.
But if you put a whole bunch of them together, you go, that combination is definitely that particular person.
As you looked at the increasing growth of data use around COVID-19.
it's for a good cause.
I'm not saying it's all used right but it's for a good purpose.
What are you seeing in terms of consumer attitudes about that?
Are they accommodating of this or pushing back?
Or is it a lot of slices?
I think it's mixed right now.
I think on one hand, you're seeing.
People are online now.
So many workers have been forced online.
They're working from home, their kids are on the computer a lot more than they were before and I think a lot of people are sort of Becoming more aware of the different kinds of data that's being collected and different kinds of online activities, and all these acts in different things asking for permission.
So on one hand I think that they are becoming a lot more aware And at the same time, they're becoming as I talked to one fellow from my report, they're becoming desperate.
And some government and health authorities are basically saying, look, if you want this to end if you want us to help fight this if you want this to go away so our life can go back to normal so your life can go back to normal.
You have to share, download this app, work with us, provide us this information.
And I think a lot of people are genuinely feel good about sharing for the public good at least in the United States when they have a choice.
People feel good about this sharing for good But at the same time there are limits.
And they also wanna know, you know, how long is this data going gonna be kept?
What's gonna happen to it afterward?
So I think that's why you're starting to see apple and well you saw Apple and Google teaming up Yeah
To create sort of this contact tracing app and some other companies are doing that too, that are much more privacy compliant, because these companies have really come under heavy fire for the privacy policies as well as some of the other Big tech companies as well.
But they wanna show people that they can do this in a privacy compliant way, so I think people are on one hand, they're okay with sharing for good on the other hand I think there are limits to what people are going to want to accept in the longer term.
I know one of the limits that Apple and Google talked about when they started rolling out their contact tracing software into their operating systems on their mobiles was this will only go on as long as there is a critical medical need.
I don't think they had an actual hard date because no one knows that.
They said, Look, this is fine.
We're just doing this for this purpose.
I look at the world of marketers which you guys speak to of course with such vibrancy and I go there looking at this and saying, guys, this is great data, every additional tranche of data out there is great stuff to have.
Once we get back to normal.
Apple has put a stake in the ground consistently over the last couple of years about privacy.
I think, Google's association with Apple sort of, in and it's, I mean, obviously there's a practical reason they're doing it but they're also I think trying to burnish their reputation in terms of.
Privacy.
I don't think either of these companies would turn around and do something to betray customer trust.
In other words, use this data past you know the medical emergency or past when they say they're going to use it.
But I do think that's opening the door for perhaps other.
Companies or other applications or other ways of getting the data from people in more consensual, you know, like once you use the contact tracing app, once you see that it works, maybe your you'd be willing to use something similar Similar technology if you are convinced that it's gonna be protecting your privacy adequately.
So I think we're gonna see a lot more companies going toward consent.
But I think this is opening the door.
This Apple and Google collaboration is sorta opening the door.
To what's possible.
And then the next step would be convincing people that this technology can be used responsibly.
And then you may see some companies, you know, going that next step and saying, look, we've proven we can use this responsibly.
Here's another way we're going to, you know, we're going to try to use it and we want you to feel good about sharing with us at that point.
Yeah, I'll be curious to see how they can potentially candy coat.
Two things that come to mind.
One is this idea of who have you've associated with, which is contact tracing, which is supposedly temporary how to make that into a value.
To add, so folks who say I wanna keep doing it.
And then the other one is so many of us now are reporting how we feel, which is really interesting.
That's been one of the holy grails, how do we find out how people feel there are tons of brands out there who would love to be able to message you when you're feeling this, that or the other physically, or emotionally.
And all of a sudden now we're filling out questionnaires.
Yeah, I don't have a fever.
I feel fine.
I haven't coughed in a while blah, blah, blah.
So I think the value add that will get people to keep doing that is going to be an interesting trend.
Do you Did you see that?
I do agree.
I mean, I just saw something that Facebook I think Facebook had aggregated some of its data Again, it was not it was anonymized.
It was aggregated, but it was basically you know, here's where here are the locations where people are reporting their the most virus symptoms or the most cost.
I don't I don't remember exactly the details, but Not just Google and Apple.
Now we start to see you know, I filled out I think three or four surveys in the past couple of weeks about how I feel, have I had symptoms of the virus Have I been diagnosed with the virus?
So I do think we're going to start seeing a lot more of those data collection initiatives.
That's like got a tinge of kind of sharing for good.
And I think people are willing to do that right now.
When you say yes and give permission for an app to use your location.
There are companies that can get hold of that data, and then use it and it was a fate.
It was all over the news.
It was Spring Breakers in Florida, with their phones, and then where they traveled in the country.
Yes.
After they left spring break.
Yes.
And, it was sorta like, it wasn't a heat map but it was really traced the path, of all these Spring Breakers and.
And that's the kind of aggregated data that we're starting to see.
And then the next level below that is how do we get more details about the data?
How do we really find out where these people are going?
You mentioned how we're all gonna get a taste of sharing certain data.
Marketers may also get a taste of a new layer of data and say, hmm, people are they're willing to share this information under the right conditions and look what we can do with it that we didn't have that tool for prior.
Any broad thoughts as we talked about what you've just mentioned there in terms of major potholes, brands and marketers need to avoid in terms of misusing this they may not intend to misuse These new layers of data contact tracing my personal health and that sort of thing.
But they may just step in a pothole.
Are there any big red flags you put up for them to say make sure you don't inadvertently do this.>> I think when this data does become available and as you have said before, this Will be one available in different ways and there are different marketers that have different levels of comfort in terms of getting the data.
But I think what one thing people the marketers are gonna be.
A lot are going to be very excited when things start to open up when they can start, marketing, again marketing different kinds of products.
They are going to have data but they're going to have to be very careful to use it in ways that.
Don't get creepy.
So for instance, as I had one fellow I was talking to for the report, say, you know, if you're in a Health app, and you're maybe looking up symptoms of Corona virus or you're looking up symptoms of maybe you're not feeling well.
And you getting served with an ad for Tylenol, that's appropriate.
Or you're getting maybe here's an ad for a facemask and you're on a Coronavirus site or something, but when you start reading.
Really going down different roads and starting start targeting people in ways that don't seem genuine, that seem like you're taking their data and really misusing it and using it in a very creepy way, even if you can, I think every marketer should be really, you know, taking a pause and saying, I have this data and just because I can do it doesn't mean I necessarily should Yeah, that's become the golden rule even with the new guardrails of GDPR and CCPA.
There's still lots of room within those guardrails to **** up.
Yes.
And to inadvertently make yourself look like a creepy, just like how did you know that and why would you suggest that now this is so There's so many ways for it to go wrong.
Last thing I want to ask you about here as we close is kind of an if a different kind of marketing.
We're talking here about marketing, in the broadest sense, health policy, good health practices, and then perhaps products down the road that can contribute to people's wellness.
But now what about the idea of marketing consensus, a lot of folks out there still Really bristle at the idea of COVID-19.
How big is it?
How important is it?
How long do we have to shut down?
This has been all over the headlines.
We lacked some consensus around the country about how we should be proceeding.
Do you think anything in the data techniques you've looked at can or will help create more consensus among the populace?
Well, I think the data that we're collecting right now is definitely helping to create consensus among the health authorities.
I think the more they learn about this virus, the more people are Report their symptoms, the more they learn about how its spreading, how contagious it is.
I think that the health community is reaching consensus, just in terms of learing more about this virus.
When it comes to consumers or the populous.
We are in a very divided time.
And I think you might be able to show you know, like, we have 100,000 people who have passed away in this country.
I think to some people that's a very high number and then to some people maybe you know It might be a very high number, but it's sort of not, you know, not high enough to have stopped all the economic activity in the ways that we have.
So I don't think necessarily you know any Anyone can look at some of this data from a different perspective and have a different take.
And I think we're seeing that in our country right now.
And the data keeps coming out and saying, here's what's going on.
There were some people who basically have come out and said I'm willing to die.
I'm willing to die for my country to save my countries from economic ruin.
And then there were other people who see the same data and say, my goodness, we need to keep everything locked down so we don't lose one more life.
Yeah,>> So it's as with everything else, we're in a divided environment the data is still showing the same thing.
People are interpreting it differently and I hope we can reach consensus [LAUGH] about the right way forward.
Yeah hard held viewpoints are hard to move no matter how many data points you put against them.
Victoria Petrak is the marketer Principal analyst and the new report we've been talking about is consumer privacy in the age of COVID-19.
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