Reporters' Roundtable 72: Where is car navigation technology going?Navigation? That's not enough for today's drivers. They now demand traffic-aware routing to get them from point to point as quickly as possible. On today's show, Inrix CTO Craig Chapman and Waze VP Di-Ann Eisnor discuss the state of the art in automotive...
I brought up to reporters' roundtable this is -- needle in in San Francisco. This is our weekly show we talk about a single tech topic of my choosing this is this show -- I get to indulge my. Little tech fetish is and they were talking about one of them. Which is traffic and navigation as we were talking about in the pre show most geeks have a thing for maps. And uber geeks have a thing for traffic which is getting into -- so we're gonna talk about that today. Of course when navigation units first came out for cars everybody thought they were magical. How things have changed. Now everybody just expects a car or -- -- device or Smartphone. To know where you're going and how to get there and now what people want it to get there faster than anybody else. And that means traffic aware navigation systems and that's what we are talking about. Today we're going to talk about the state of the art -- navigation. In traffic on car based dash top and phone based systems the differences between them and the benefits of one -- the other and about sensor based traffic reporting and crowd sourced traffic reporting and map making -- we've got some really really interesting and influential guests to talk about those topics. First up here in the studio. IB MIs or who runs US operations and is working on the live mapping function. For the Israeli crowd sourced navigation and real time traffic start known as ways W a easy. Thanks for coming in idea and it says here is a -- who geography. Pioneer. I love that word. At also she's a serial entrepreneur or and prior to -- feast their started -- shall the world's first social atlas thank you. Come in thinking and joining us via the Skype connection is Craig Chapman who's -- co-founder and the CTO of in -- Which is a -- time major provider of traffic information directions and driver services. He was previously the development manager for the automotive business unit at Microsoft Craig thanks -- -- -- -- -- Still we're gonna do something hero Wii gets a getting started that I normally don't do because this is not a -- session and this is not up -- but I want to know a little bit about the different about what -- companies do because I had a hunch that our readers might not be familiar with. With ways and in -- so much we always go with who's in the studio first. So let's start with you Diane what is -- really briefly what you guys doing. So from the customer perspective it's an application that gives free voice guided turn by turn navigation real time traffic. Across different kinds of Smartphones. So we're collecting GPS street -- -- time stamps and converting that processing it and giving it back to people in the -- of traffic that's primarily. -- -- from three million drivers right now that are using the service. And them using all of that real time information to try to get people from point a to point B in the most efficient way. Okay thank you so that's ways and create genuine secure inner X which is a very big player in traffic and navigation but a company that. Doesn't have a strong consumer facing brand is that right what it was in -- That's right so we we started about six years ago with the premise that there was like a lack of high quality traffic. Turns out that it probably allow traffic -- the core of location based services that deal with -- with vehicle transportation. So. We focused for the first couple years on building out our system to. Provide a high quality speed data about real time but also predictive so -- licensed nanotechnology -- -- -- of research group. And so we cannot provide very accurate real time data as well pads predictive data out fifteen minute increments out to. A -- were necessary -- For six years would be continuing to build out its core technology and then I'm -- this asset that we edit. Accurate real time and and predictive. Routing as well. Generated. First Wednesday implement call third generation routing which uses -- -- real time predictive data -- -- the best. Way to get from point -- to point B. Great so let's invest that set the baseline here is what -- called -- -- I guess we are talk in the -- here. And talk about routing -- it in in. Treat traffic. Just from getting me from point a to point B. I've always wondered how that works just seems like an extremely difficult problem to solve permit from a technology perspective how does a and navigation system. Know how to get me from one place to the other and how has the state of the art in just -- routing changed democratic either. Like start if I can start with this -- You know that the core routing -- algorithms today. But most navigation service suppliers that remains. And change for -- -- twenty years. Methods that use -- from mathematical terms what are known as network models or what we call them tech tech jargon star out room. And fundamentally -- album starts with a destination node -- creates a route plex and up and ordered or already nation noted destination. And creates a route by export notes in between were no it is an intersection or -- unwrapped for example and each time a driver can take it actually -- that decision point sticking -- explored until the best route is found. The other point or point to realize -- routing is that each link along the route has -- costs. And or -- fastest route -- explorers. Each decision point five you'll crawled up the costs which would. Fastest route the fastest way to get from -- might be but -- what's the status -- pioneered. You're. First generation routing use static data for the costs just map data second generation routing started using. Accident avoidance I would. Create a route -- -- incidents and third generation routing uses at least real time and and we incorporate predictive data as well so that the route uses. As it -- or each node in the network we're looking at the time we get there aren't certain what traffic's the beauty but the -- that we get that knows. And so we can calculate the fastest route based upon what traffic will be like over the course. Your travel fair -- -- Thanks -- and -- using similar algorithms or your own. We're using our own but I mean there that the premise is similar and -- I -- -- start by saying that. -- -- is right and that there is with it or twenty years where there were no changes can and for us the opportunity was. How can we. Implement things that are new systems that are incredibly responsive in real time so that we can take into account everything that's happening right now. Not. You know I -- a row because I don't know how to get somewhere -- that every time I turn on my device. I wanna be able to tell what's different today than yesterday whats different now vs ten minutes ago. And so part of part of that is traffic Wii and look at incidents in the packet flow and all that information is coming in from. The route people are actually peaking right now when and how long it's taking them to get from segment effect when. -- also does this other thing where you have mapping. Crowd -- not just traffic at the map data sometime there's there's some neighborhoods I -- in San Francisco. Where on some of the street you see these little dots -- are -- -- -- downtime and those dots that I drive over them like pac man. Those why are they there they're there you want me to get data for you right. -- -- that is the thing yes yes we use it we use our own maps though it historically you've got you know nav tech Intel atlas the duopoly that are providing the base maps. And that is what I giving you you know the static road created with names and all of that plus. Where am I allowed to turn what -- the turn restrictions. And then even along each segment what is the speed along each segment and that's -- they're making the -- we found it incredibly beneficial to use the GPS data we were collecting. To create that road -- to create the map as well as the routing and the traffic in and real time stuff on top of it. And now this is important because the old world of -- also has. A way to look at the world tolkien's the cables right which is just how they're taking information and attaching it to -- segments that conveniently only fit on to those. -- And so everything we're trying to do it much more open it's about a laugh long and so we have a map. That anybody's -- long based incidents -- flow information can fit on nicely. And you know the -- -- with our traffic as we're sharing it with other people. Anyone that can look at -- -- -- systems is going to be able to use our information won't be able to take and other information. But but to your point about the plight and so with very very important for us because -- so real time is that we have a very high density of data and that that's refreshed as much as possible. So you'll see dot on the roads if no one has driven down that road before if you're the first one to drive them that we use the method of game mechanic that keeps. Our data fresh essentially interest and so people are really participating in that process. We'll get to the game mechanics little bit later let's talk a little bit now about traffic data. Where -- traffic data come from before we had phones that were reporting how fast they were going. And municipalities -- tallies were collecting traffic data and making that available and for fifty years we've been hearing traffic reports. Aside from people in helicopters looking down or fixed wing airplane. Where does that data come from and how and how does it get to a company that's doing traffic routing regularly the first time that. Sure so and in fact that's that's again that's really began in -- of six years ago -- the artwork you had to. Of the radio stations in the got helicopters is thought it. -- that report -- submit data. And they could report. Even in other estimate at speeds that sort of look very accurate. And then -- about six years ago -- twenty markets -- twenty cities the United States and sensors on the roads please road sensors and from those he could get speed data. But he -- limited to about twenty. Subsidies in the country so we began -- -- to. -- be able to aggregate generate traffic for -- the masses. So at this point we have. We cover most of the -- the United States or North America as as well as -- up. And have -- 120 customers and all different markets including automotive media Internet. I'm so that we can provide -- high quality traffic data. It's in which I think traffic -- but I -- speed information. Accurate speeds for roads for routing purposes -- department motor vehicles. And and also for our on mobile a mobile customers mobile. There and clarify for the -- where you getting that data from is -- from road sensors and death toll tags and things like that or elsewhere. So we get we we are bringing data from hundreds of sources we have most of the road sensors in North America. And Europe. We get told tech leaders radar -- -- we got all that. The hard sensors that can we also used data from fleet vehicles and consumer vehicles we have. Four million vehicles -- a contract in our course mark driver network which is. Which is. Hundreds of fleet vehicles and trucks and cars and -- and an airport -- you can imagine that are -- 81012 hours per day of reporting anywhere from ten seconds -- Couple minutes -- data points in between so. We get data from a variety of different sources. And why we are I would say that we are the originators of -- but crowd sourced traffic data. We have been using outsourcing. I'm really fuel -- engine four or six years now. And Diana ways you do crowd -- as well exclusively or do you all these other data points. Historically we've used exclusively crowds -- thing. And we find that. As we start to bring in fleet -- it which were also now gamer testing out that the information. Vehicles in the fleet tend to have a different driving behavior -- citizens and drivers. And so that you and I know that -- frankly nearly getting rear -- by taxicab -- go -- -- -- they stop and -- differently they take different exits and what's important to us this really that the citizen driving behaviors that we're not going to rely on it heavily it will remain that mean for us. You know it's about what -- the use case hair and and for us again it's navigating the world in real time and so we need. Don't want to collect the -- The detectors are these sensors from the -- I mean there -- few variant of the few problems at that one is that they're only on highways. I think you're not getting a very good picture. Of what's happening with an affinity. And secondly -- -- -- very expensive. And in certain markets they're only -- about 60% accurate at that there's there's a ton of issues than the existing it does an even -- out how to network how yes how can. And an exclusion for up to view her. Different -- ocean economy -- that I do but. Yet I am that. -- sensor data set new quality issues. Like that but I'm gonna but there are Omnia the use we. And -- again that's for six years and there is this sort of urban legend we vehicles they are. Inroads that. Instantly which is not true. The road shuttle express see this year's -- Eva we got so many. Vehicle fleet vehicles out there. And ensure we have long haul trucks which -- stay off the surface streets but it is better data on highways but we get lots and lots -- Which. These matters freeways -- that will. I think I I think we can stipulate that there are many many different sources of data. And I don't think -- -- said that fleet vehicles stay off. Of certain streets not -- -- different driving patterns. Right different reading patterns and again when I was trying to focus on was the use cases it. The use cases for -- for this information and that there there are few things that are more important than these other sources for -- for example. Bringing in. Twitter information. The incidents there bringing in other kinds of real time and it information for example even real time inventory. For certain stores might be more important for us or real time pollen counts -- whether. As we look at. Where we believe the world -- going with connected cities and that kind of things that the real time component is really where we're focused and building up the community of people who are willing Q. Provide information about what's happening on the -- at a given time I've -- And I got that Garnet but doesn't say that there are lots of companies to focus on building that fusion engines that take the sensor data. And you know act -- actually Craig is this doing a phenomenal job of that that we just started working recently with. We did an X each with a total traffic network which is one of the largest on by clear channel and they have a tremendous amount of that information that we don't need to reinvent the wheel. When -- can be a really wonderful partnership between the citizen traffic -- which is really our strength from a technology perspective and from an adoption perspective and then bring in. Some of the more traditional form. -- -- -- the lingo fight if I understand this correctly you -- when you have a mobile phone out there that is a GPS equipped mobile phone that is reporting the speed and its location that's called you call that a probe correct. And yet you can use prep to mean a lot of different market eventually at -- our approach now and it's -- -- dump probes and community members that's I'll just make that distinction because I'm very interest in the community member not -- them through. I will -- because I was going to ask next about Google. Which Google -- That's clearly here I just here commitment in Google -- on the show but I do -- -- understand that you know Google Maps on both Android devices. And on the iPhone. Is not just reporting. Not just giving you maps and traffic data but the devices who are showing traffic -- are actually reporting data back they are approach the killing -- -- -- your payment numbers of smart. But but the point is that these devices. Just -- we all know here this is that -- it seems like the mother load of traffic information. Is Google especially Android phones which I don't always or just -- -- -- showing our reporting speeds and location is that correct. -- So that's the key is that they they're not always. Returning traffic and -- -- returning traffic when -- end user navigation. Looking at navigation systems looking at a map and you know ideas that sort of -- But blue heron because they're just not that many times when somebody it's actually staying there looking at Google Maps while they're driving. So relatively speaking. I think. And finally agreed that there. Who it yeah Droid the notion that Android it's gonna -- the rest of sources just it's a red Herring -- -- not really -- What the where is Google getting its street level traffic speed I mean I know where they get there they were traditionally are historically there are getting. Highway data from the -- what is essentially public information might be hard to get -- -- the public owns the information out of what's going on on highways -- -- getting street level information. Google's Google certainly is crowd sourcing data from the users that. End users but if you look at I would. -- I'd suggest you look at the data compared Google traffic. Street level or -- result traffic data to for example ports and you'll find there's a huge difference in quality energy has done away. There -- don't have got to have the quality. A couple of different things related to quality as well because they are a lot of devices that there. But again -- mentioned that that you have to have application open -- it depends on sampling rate -- right so how often are you paying people. You know when they're driving or not driving and so. And since people are not driving specifically with their Android devices and other trying to encourage that Android navigator but again their focus on the use case of when you don't wanna get off. Not every day driving and they have been using and lots and lots of sources where. There they're -- this from Android devices are one component but they are one OS provider every OS provider -- going to be affected -- yesterday. Every connected cars and -- -- source of GPS traces this is not incredibly valuable information from most companies. They can be valuable for -- because -- yet the business that relies an aggregate that the can be valuable for us because our users can benefit from it. But most companies are not going to be able to unlock the value. With out being part of one of these routers distance. And unity that rim you've got athlete -- believed that optimize and -- -- to hundreds of sources of GPS did and it's not going to be. On its own for any one company very interesting even imagine BMW cars let's just say they have the most cars out there are still only gonna have data for BMW -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Funny you pick an exit that -- and find it filled with animal -- -- the platoon of BMW's they'll take with him he. -- -- -- -- Another -- quite -- to -- to -- patents so Linux we focus on traffic so it's not just the data such as the raw data but it's also analytics and we put. That's six years and we have a number of patents and how you turn those. Individual GPS points in two. Two traffic information speed information specifically. We have -- -- -- -- technology calls you ways we've created you know high definition models for every wrote the united. North America Europe. That from those models in curve fitting using real time traffic we can generate very accurate. Speed on all the roads -- and North America. Now one of the things here that and I remembered years and years ago as having an argument with somebody one of the early navigation companies about. Traffic rerouting and there -- seem to be a fear about using real time traffic data to reroute. -- users drivers around jams because the fear was that that would just move the jammed from one place to the other everybody had the same data. Then you would have and -- -- moving traffic cams everybody tried to avoid it unless you have a very smart network navigation system. That is splitting the stream on to say there's three ways to get from point a to point B and everybody was going trying to get downtown that would. Cooperatively. Or intelligently start to split the traffic. And route intelligently. Are we getting there are we now in danger of basically having -- tragedy of the commons when it comes to everybody having navigation traffic data. That's great that's how we get that question all the time -- economically question what people think ansari and. And and so are real time. Navigation and navigation routing capability. -- -- real time. Know you're gonna so you're gonna -- of people -- one wrote on the road and at one wrote fills out. Your applications and real time. Predictive data. Start using -- -- -- for real time to normalize the traffic over the available routes. So the best. Which are prescribing treatment -- Even just simply. Time. -- -- That's. Now cragey east at that -- and in addition to having real time traffic data also has predictive data where you can. Predicted a certain time how deep does that go and and -- How much does it what's happening traffic affect your predictions for traffic take ten minutes from now on the route that I think I'm going to be taking 1015 minutes from now. Yeah that's a great question. So. Certainly real time data is affects our predictive models up to -- Do about an -- -- bit our predictive models used on real time but also whether. School schedules. -- that might -- in the area. So in any other metadata that might affect markets for example a market like -- space if it's -- -- predictive models take into account. Hundreds -- Variables that metadata. All of our markets. And yet that real time -- new models -- five minutes and we take the real time data combine it with. Other data and we come up with. -- highly accurate predictions. It the quality and use that input you routing. So for people. -- -- -- -- -- for -- the thing is if you're if you're running from here to -- the airport our way. Even real time is not good enough. -- outside about the first met some have object predictive data along the -- -- so now what -- Airport should leave for your -- -- so if. I -- -- to get the the state of the art in and a real time navigation system I don't care so much about when I rent a car and I wanna go from point a to point B in Arizona -- I've never been before I wanna know for every day I'm going from school to pick up my kids so it's all about traffic that commute. -- what is the best device -- the best way that. An end user consumer can get that information is it. An iPhone Android phone and brand new BMW means a dash top device what -- that what are the best devices these days for getting information. I mean I haven't an obvious bias toward toward mobile devices and mean you don't how -- without having a real time system and -- and an a lot of that the traditional. -- -- if they're not connected it is a personal navigation device that somebody has been used suction -- your windshield exactly and and and killed until real time platform that had -- the state of the art but MS. -- there's real time information flowing through your not going to get -- -- the act so that iPhone Android whichever. But 101 of those devices it's going to be litigated in real time information is just fed up with that architecture from and then it's about the data. And the services that you're using on the device so obviously I think that it weighs that the very progressive one I think that services using indirect I mean I love. In that models I think that there they're -- but I'm different strategies. Different approaches and we're taking -- yeah. Craig already the fastest commuter out there what you -- So I believe -- what what science at north entrance and -- regard to navigation has become about telling people. I get to -- don't go it's really about providing accurate guidance. Car. So certainly all of devices. A great product that also poor with a car company. So Ford Motor Co. -- already shipped a product that uses our. Real time predictive routed correctly. That's routes and and we -- recently. And -- and that's what you see those. Well. The mobile devices are great as well anybody. Requires an active device but there's lots more connected device that -- these -- just so. Now the thing about a mobile device smart phone. While it has arguably in the car the most up to date processor. The screen. And certainly communications infrastructure in upcoming in the -- -- communications connectivity. It is a disconnected device from the car so for example if for example I'm in Iraq. And -- bag goes off for something like that the phone doesn't know that now the card does so. Are we moving towards a point where we have. Where the cars themselves are communicating either to other cars to a service like and in -- a service that in -- knows about ways. So the cars are doing this vehicle to vehicle or vehicle to infrastructure communication to tell other cars behind them hey I've just been in -- -- everybody please be careful. In an upcoming definitely -- and I mean there's there's a first step which is allowing the applications to be able to talk to the key. Right so we are also working with a number of auto manufacturers and now imagine that you can take the -- the real time information the pervasiveness of the ways. And be able to tap into the APIs coming out of the car. That are related to and now homage gases in the car for when you need it to stop for gas you. To being able to understand how close you are far you are -- -- not the car. So even just getting the application to talk to APIs within the -- is a great first step and there were already getting. There how are we getting that. Are -- our peers Ford BMW -- they thing here here's our data you can handle -- smarter car companies are already developing platforms that allow for integration of certain applications and -- vehicle and so what happens -- you have an extra level of safety you're using that controls with in the card to. Work these applications you have another level of information between the car itself and the application whether -- application is not some people are connecting it to Smartphones some two tablets and some it'll be you know in the head unit. In most cases it's just a matter of -- -- right you can't just all of a sudden have everything and head units because. You know the -- have a different life like them -- they can start out by putting you know having browsers in the car retarded and some vehicles. And -- -- applications -- to be there by connecting to an icon for example -- other Smartphone. Craig in -- has relationships with the manufacturers tell us what's happening with that. Yes exactly -- it's gonna I was gonna agree with that. In -- we are working with a number of car manufactures the guys go under contract. And we are getting information for wreckage from the car -- things like. If you use. -- -- If the car starts to -- that information that stands there's whether that's what you what data so we're. We're starting to work with even GPS -- to get that information. -- -- -- -- -- -- On your point about intelligent cars and I think that's that's a nice idea I think -- happen but there's lots of infrastructure. About the standards. Are trying to get all that car manufacturers to agree that common in cars. The ways. -- -- Are the auto manufactures changing their me when I first started covering technology the auto manufacturers were on seven your product cycles or something and you know which meant that any technology that you had in your car was two generations at least out of date when it came to computer technology. Are they getting faster and more open in dealing with connected devices. -- definitely their -- we -- when we signed up with Ford Motor Co. to work with governments and product we got that product. From conception. In the market in respect the hackers monitoring -- much faster -- plus the other thing is they're going head units can be updated. On the fly so in other words the fact -- question. They can be it can be updated or error and you -- so that you software constantly. Updated. Its its a whole different world now. That eventually we on the other we're going to have self driving cars it's I'm -- I can't animate it I cannot imagine what I can't imagine won't happen someday. But I think it's not it's not like -- step function where you go from today's cars to you know everybody driving the Google -- overnight. -- -- Are we going to have these navigation awareness traffic aware cars for example that do things that are smart based on what they know about what other cars are doing for example. Preloaded breaks tug -- towards an exit lane if you for forgetting to take when is that something that we can look forward to in the future just can nudge the steering wheel that take you can bet mr. exit. I think that they're gonna start it. It's in the fact it's happening it would have long haul trucks they want the trucks actually have GPS systems built -- TV. -- -- drive trains so that as it approaches tell. It can apply the brakes are down shift intelligently. As it comes -- that -- And let. For the answer your question is certainly more information. Into the drive -- help so -- -- for -- traffic data. Two B media card itself can make better decisions but that's right I mean I'd buy it as I said before -- think that -- Ability for cars drive themselves I think it's. But still think it's a great Jetsons cartoon questions but I think that's. While. Well I'm very contextualize that question and that -- well over re contextualize the way. -- not just about tightening in the and the physical things but the software itself in the information. What's gonna happen there and so for example lot of -- have cameras now and also augmented reality for example in the navigation system and and the car. Once we're able to get to a point where we're capturing what the cars are -- We're gonna be able to do things like understand where stoplight are more easily. Right because we'll just have will be able to identify stoplight -- and all that information when you can profit that. And you -- and real time you can put it into their route as well so. We also have. Bridges that tweet I'm opening and closing. -- for drop widgets and until there's a tremendous amount of information that's going to be pervasive with in the infrastructure of affinity right that's coming from. The urban objects themselves with coming from the cars -- coming from our own Smartphones. And I think where we're going it's not just it -- -- due to the exit. But it actually an update your route along the way boulevard be -- Q. Give you a much -- finer grain situation even take that take the notion of something like to -- with -- virtual robot. -- I have a picture. That these emerging platforms of municipalities write the trying to figure out what to do with their data. That they eventually had APIs where. We've been talking and for example use cases related to congestion avoidance and local discovery but imagine the emergency response -- case. Right where there's a terrible accident and it is critical that nobody drives -- -- Then we give the government a little bit more. More leeway and they can put these virtual roadblock through all the routing engines so that nobody is routed there and keep them -- terrible emergency weather and pollution based emergency or whether it. An explosion -- -- So I mean these -- things are happening in the background and it's merging different kinds of real time information that are relevant to the driver to that person in the city. Interest we have a couple of quick questions from readers or we're over time but this is the best things -- just letting it go -- -- Couple questions from readers here Bryant sitting in in in ways -- -- -- -- as well how how long after piece of information is -- before the system resets or starts to duplicate information for example there's a blockage on the road that. -- -- -- So as I guess we're talking about the the incidents and each type of report to you can report on police you can apart on traffic you can report on the hazard. It varied there's a different aging for each and we didn't have any -- we can set it up a bridge is closed for a month it will have star in -- month. Four -- traffic. -- depending on what kind it is up to it can be after an hour. Police report and laughed a little bit longer until the community is also involved in helping aging process. -- yet each one has their own but it it it agents -- me -- -- -- -- in an -- with. Job -- it -- the the -- that we're getting from our. Our fleet vehicles we get all that long so we can't wait we calculate speed -- we use every data point we have a role in fifteen minute when and and we media actually he's waiting so that alternate point -- less. So. Something similar users as well users with a higher rank within the system have a higher Wheatley and there their actions. Clever aren't -- police asked them why haven't GPS from automotive systems tied in with -- planning. And deals that seems like a no brainer I mean are we going to get. When I'm driving down the road a take this exiting get a discount that the thing. -- the kind of things that we're working on you may have seen that Nintendo launched the 3-D S on ways. Last week I mean they launched it not just underneath the court that the time product -- -- but ways with the channel by which they planet. You know what we call this location guided advertising right so -- one thing we didn't check touch based on related to congestion avoidance was. And the real time data -- -- -- about the what are the incentives for getting them to change their routes. And the incentives might be a greater good ecological impact right you'll see if this much carbon if you don't get into this them congestion but it might also be. You're stuck in traffic at a -- back then and get a free blank. Figure going to do that more and more and we're not the only -- thing around this nav tech has. Solutions related more to the more traditional advertising but we're rare we're building and coupon we -- we launched in Israel about three months ago the test band and Nintendo with the first program that we did here. But again I'm a little bit bored with deals. Still -- one important component but also real time inventory what if you didn't have to drive around from store to store to find the next Android but that comes up at the you know how many are in stock and Meredith and you're just writing directly to your destination. There are lots of ways that we're gonna be able to use this real time information contact. Commerce. And. -- -- if you're thinking if you incorporate traffic in the year. System he can imagine that -- -- -- really wanted to -- freeway has not worked Starbucks -- where's the nearest Starbucks based on traffic. And and my direction. -- -- chat rooms that. What policies -- and today I guess that means all you know. Consumer base that GPS reporting systems have in place for hard privacy given current phone's abilities to report their location and IDs. Can emergency responders requests data. From a phony requests that black box data or or Smartphone data Craig you the first on that one. So we we maintain users of anonymity and although we did so short answer is we don't have any way of reporting. Individual. Names to an emergency responders we just happens to keep that kind of information. Sulfur content on mobile devices read we are not keeping track. Individual. The -- the remote device blogs to. Our fleet data it's actually an itemized and so we don't we don't know catalog any personal identifiable information other. If the user wants to. Music gets its its its like he saw and we do. I'll keep track of newspaper routers -- locations but in terms of individual data points themselves don't you know catalog those based on. -- Then I'll ask the questions about the layer and an additional it to create this difficulty -- -- safety. One of the instinct things about the ways application is that there is and a game application aspect to where you're being. If you drive over certain dot on the road a virtual dot and you get some kind of points what are you doing to make sure -- the driver stay safe when the growth information coming and as well as keeping them right. That's on the -- pricey side we have an additional challenge and something that we really look at -- well and that. Where very very integrated social media you can see the other people driving around June you can choose to be anonymous. That you can also choose to put your -- -- information. Again not something that we display it's not something that we keep that and reiterate that and when you're seeing people on the map. You're seeing it blurred with our algorithms for exact location exact time and then I just -- that and then on on the driver distraction issue. I mean obviously this is incredibly important for anybody who's working on the mobile -- -- There's a lot that we can do better integrating more of -- I don't think that the game application -- there in any way dangerous -- Me if it's done by -- -- it's keeping people focused on the road much of what you can do runways can only be done and passenger mode for them they can't hack player driving and that there's some things that are just unfair. On the -- side which is for example you can't touch your phone and California to navigate at all not even touch it you can touch your head here. And it's not it's it's just not there there's a real lack of understanding. About and therefore lack of common practices for safety. About where this is going the key Indian market is not going to continue to navigation that packet is not going to continue to -- Because of these legal elements but the B if you just -- that the legal. You would think that. -- practices. For anything. Well put interest thing -- -- -- with something for everybody to follow now we've got one last topic to get to before we don't use a all -- time which is -- parking. To meet the holy Grail of navigation provided in San Francisco -- active park my stupid car after -- make it up at his school which is not on a bus line. Parking and I covered one company recently that actually I think you can tell them yeah -- like parking in motion and another one best parking they're all these companies there. Trying to collect data from various parking garages which is -- I believers to these medieval accounting and and data management practice I understand correctly. But that's not even the hard part. The hard part in street parking meters are going electronic how long it's going to be until. -- devices are in car devices whether it's a phone or whatever can. Help save our frustration when it comes to finding a parking place -- first then -- and there were -- -- -- Well I'll just say that there -- number of people working on this particular problem and integrate -- data we're not gonna solve the problem myself I definitely think it have to do with mark -- in crowds are saying he and that that's going to be. An important part. It have to be again there needs to be a level of density and the -- I think there to -- The thing up parking data when it comes to street level parking is that that is probably the most. Timely data in the universe I mean you can have. I can know -- department -- -- -- around wasting gas just looking for part yes but you give me a piece of data that says half a block away from you in your direction of traffic of travel there is a parking spot that data point can be expired in -- -- -- -- -- -- got graphic from its. Is this even a solvable problem. I -- Frank -- Yeah so sorry I completely agree with that were -- descendant that is that some of it's certainly probes and that's -- probes. Crowd sourcing is one way of getting data. And this -- -- to your point this is a huge audience yells well in Ulster park is very difficult to find. I think it's that's part of the other part is just aggregation. Data from the from the sources available because more more parking garages and even -- cities are -- Data isn't available so one of things that Linux -- -- that is aggregating. Now we have. Hundreds of thousands of sources stated that aggregate -- data from -- for frequencies. And that. Our. Our mix because you get dynamic data parties but the -- dynamic yet it's more about. And then -- a parallel. You're the thing that's happening in the infrastructure itself related to electric vehicles and it. And so we're going to and the next -- -- -- decade have accessed it opportunities to put a lot more software a lot more sensors. And that the new parking meters that are often charging stations for -- electric vehicle and we're gonna go through a number of changes that might enable this but it's it's not it's. Not a short art -- easy problem to -- Solve that the world be -- -- are right we are out of time if people would like to try -- -- which is a crowd source mapping and navigation. Pre application which is free. And which by the way I use. Pretty consistently and I I really I'd like it very much at the very -- that it's that we're gonna get. I hear her your iPhone -- aren't Android market where on iPhone Android when most in the end. Downloaded anywhere. And -- ways to be lazy. And Craig to where can people -- in -- stuff appearing and if people want to get your app directly as a consumer Canada. Yeah so we have an iPhone app and its iPhone Android two dates and so we've got Blackberry and and remote that certainly an iPhone and Android. -- -- check -- those apps they are great stuff and the more efficiently drive. The more you -- the planet don't forget that. That's it for this edition of reporters' roundtable -- as their from -- thank you for coming in thank you Craig Chapman from enriched thanks -- -- the time for us really appreciate it. -- thank -- thank Stephen we're producing you can follow what's happening on reporters' roundtable at the reporters' roundtable blog. Which is. I'll just go WW David. Twitter.com slash -- to follow me to see what's going on if you have ideas for shows send them to roundtable at cnet.com or any feedback. Send it our way. Thanks again. We'll have another great trophy next week the event by.