Buzz Out Loud
Ep. 940: The legend of black fartRafe coins a new term for a port of the iFart application to a BlackBerry. But really the show is much more about variable pricing coming to iTunes, The Pirate Bay rolling out VPN for you, and robot soccer teams one day killing us all.
[ Music ] ^M00:00:04 [ Background Music ] >> Today is Friday, March 27, 2009. >> I'm Natali Del Conte. >> I'm Tom Merritt. >> I'm Rafe Needleman. >> And I'm Jason Howell. >> Welcome to Buzz Out Loud, CNET's podcast of indeterminant length. This is episode 940. >> And I just wanna say to everyone out there, thank you for listening. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Because without you we couldn't do this podcast. >> Oh, warm and fuzzy. [Simultaneous Talking] >> We are all in a really good mood today. I don't think we can have any raunch. >> Shut up. >> It is so beautiful outside. >> Oh, sorry. >> Maybe it's the facade, yeah. >> Don't harsh my mellow man. >> Sorry, I can't help it. >> It's a glorious, glorious day. >> It's actually really beautiful in New York due to it's our first proper spring day and I think maybe that's why everyone is in such good, nice mood. >> Yeah. >> Coast to coast. >> If you look at the cnet.com front door, you don't see a big splashy add for Buzz Out Loud anywhere. We're not even on CNET TV except that now that you've added us in that bed video desk. That's on tab out there now. >> So, the billions of requests for download that we get come from you just liking us and listening to us. >> Ahh. >> So freaking thanks, we don't appreciate you enough. >> Freaking thanks. >> Alright. >> I'm welling. >> Under the stories. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> I don't even know welling happening here. >> Yeah. >> You're Alex Welling. Variable pricing coming to iTunes, April 7th. >> Well we knew this was gonna happen, we didn't know when. This is where Apple is going to tear the price of songs based on popularity so if the song is super popular, it's gonna -- could cost as much as 1 dollar and 29 cents where as a less popular song could cost as little as 69 cents. >> Now everybody is an outrage in the blogosphere today about this and I can't understand why. They're like, how dare they a dollar 30 for tracks. Oh, this is horrible. The fact the matter is this is the way music has always been priced variably. >> Well not -- not automatically. >> The popular things get priced more. >> Well the hardware's placed that way. >> But you use to go to the store and it was like 12.99 for a popular album but only 3.99 for the bargain stuff that wasn't selling. That's how you sell things. >> Its called -- I believe there's a word for that begins with ka-ka-ka. >> It begins with a K. >> Capitalism. >> Yeah. >> Right! >> That's it! >> Das Kapital. >> Well actually, I mean what's interesting about this is that this will change the whole dynamic of how people promote songs cause they want their -- it's a game of arbitrage, you know. Can I advertise enough to make it worthwhile for my songs to go up in price so I get that money back. >> A lot of times -- >> So it will take -- >> If you want a song that's cheaper so that more people are motivated to buy it because the investment is lower. >> A lot of times new songs get lower priced on Amazon. >> Yeah. >> There'll be like you know new album's only 3.99 to get people in the door. >> And then once everybody has to have it, the price goes way up. >> Yeah. >> I don't see anything wrong with this personally. Maybe I don't have enough sense of entitlement and outrage. >> I think what might be wrong with this is if we wanna -- >> Well I think simply think it's a beautiful day. >> If we wanna [laughter] -- if we want to find something that is wrong with this, it's that who's setting the prices. >> Apple. >> Right, through an algorithm. >> Its not that I if I have a song and I wanna sell it at 29 cents. I can sell it at 29 cents. >> That is it -- >> Apple. >> That is important to know. >> Sets the price based on popularity. >> It's a simple execution of supply and demand principles. >> There's an infinite supply right because it's digital. So it's just demand. >> Right but its clients based on demand, right. >> Yeah. >> But it also reduces the flexibility of somebody to say market band by selling their songs really cheap as part of a plan to make them popular at which point they can then turn the knob and start selling them for more. Which is the way you do things, you sell things cheap to get people hooked and then you bump up the price when they're done. Now, Apple is trying to automate this in a sense in this -- you know range of 69 cents to a dollar 29 and that's really curious. I think it is pure capitalism and it is kinda cool. But shouldn't the artists have the control of their own pricing? >> Yeah, that's why NBC broke up with Apple 2 years ago because they wanted tear pricing on their shows, on their TV shows. But we don't see tear pricing in TV or any other video yet. This is just for music. Do we think that they could extend this to-- >> It works in the airlines. >>Actually it is priced various, the HBO shows are priced--variably. >> They have some variable pricing. >> On TV shows and -- maybe not movies but in TV shows I know they've discounted things but they have a max. >> You know almost everything, nobody -- you don't have to pay retail for hardly anything. I mean there are coupons all over the web for things. Net flicks the price you get when you subscribe based on what promotion they're running that day. This is just kind of a you know the next step of then, actually I think this price range while it is you know a hundred percent from, or nearly a hundred percent from you know 70 cents to a dollar 30 or is it 50 percent. I don't know, somebody will correct my math on that-- is actually fairly narrow range for the value and the popularity of songs from like nowhere to huge mega hits. So this looks like a [inaudible] range, I wouldn't be surprised to see the range of pricing expand. >> Michael says the artists are not in charge of selling their music, they signed over all their rights to their label but that's not true of all artists. Jonathan Coulton sells his music. >> That's an old model. >> In the iTunes store. >> And that model is changing. >> And he's totally in charge so -- well Michael is right, the majority of artists right now are under the thumb of the label. They don't have to be. But even if you are independent of your label, if you're selling your music to the iTunes store, you don't get to control the price. Apple controls the price. >> Didn't Eminem protest iTunes a couple of years ago. >> Ah everybody is making a protest on iTunes. >> Because he wasn't making any money form it? It's still a case of what we were talking about the other day in that it's still the labels that are making all the money not really the artist that are making money and we're paying for a brand not an actual tune. >> Well none of us are cool enough to be Mac users anyway according to the Microsoft adds that are now out. Finally hitting back hard-- >> Uhmm. >> Microsoft isn't just saying, oh look cute little kids using PCs. Now they challenge a woman to go into a store and find a laptop that she wants for less than a thousand dollars. She's looking for a 17-inch laptop I don't know what else she wanted. I can't remember, there were a couple of other items that she wanted. She goes into an Apple store which they call a Mac Store. I don't know if that's a way of avoiding any kinda libel issue. But she says I'm going to the Mac Store, she's like the only thing for a thousand dollars in -- the only computer in there for a thousand dollars was a monitor. Well a monitor is not a computer, lady. >> That's not true [Simultaneous Talking] the Mac book is 999.99. >> Yeah there's a 13 inch, 13 inch -- >> Did she say monitor? >> Yeah, she's like the only computer in there was not you know-- 7 or I don't know what she said-- and that was a monitor. Or maybe she said that it didn't have a monitor. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> She said it had a 13-inch monitor. >> At any rate -- at any rate-- so the point is -- so the deal is Microsoft says-- >> I take it back. >> Here's your budget, if you find a-- whatever computer you want that meets your budget, we'll give you the cash to buy it. So she goes to the "Mac Store" and she can't find what she wanted. >> Mac Store is a make up store by the way. Apple store is where she goes. >> [Laughter] >> Guess what, they don't have computers-- >> How did you know that? Do you buy Macs to wear on CNET TV? >> Speaking of tangents. I buy Blu-Ray Cargo actually to wear on CNET. >> At any rate-- >> [Laughter] >> Class -- >> Okay. >> Then she goes into a best buy and they have exactly what she needs for like 700 bucks and Microsoft then gives her the money and she buys it and she's like happy and dancing around and waving her pretty red hair all over the place. And it's a clever ad. I saw it a very clever ad except it's not like real, you know. It looks so real-- >> Well she's an actress. >> She's an actress although-- >> I assumed that anyway looking at this. I'm like this isn't real. >> I was snowed. I was actually believing that she was a real person and she is of course a real person. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> Well definitely modeling needs an actor. >> But she's listed on Craigslist ads. >> Somebody who acts. >> So what? You don't think she's-- >> Actors are an advertisements. >> I question the genuiness of her reactions. >> Oh common, I mean that's just the way this commercials are always done. Apple did the same thing with their real people who are using the iPhone that-- [Simultaneous Talking] >>Those were all hired actors too. >> The iPod dancer's. >> Yeah. >> You think they're hired to dance like that, that's not spontaneous dancing. >> Those are natural people found dancing in the wild with their iPhone. [Laughter] >> Totally. >> I don't know the problem with this act that -- the point of this ad is that they're trying to sell PC users back their own superiority and the fact that they're using cheaper machines. >> Yes. >> But I don't think it's going to change the mind of any Mac user who's like, "Oh, well I can get something cheaper, I'm gonna not use a Mac anymore", but people who are considering switching to a Mac because they hear that they're so cool will look at this commercial and say, oh maybe I better not. >> I think this advertisement is gonna pay this extremely clever for the times because what it says is that buying a Macintosh, buying an Apple computer is flaunting the fact that you have extra money. And that is just not cool to do right now. >> Yeah, they're hitting 'em on 2 hard points. One is, it's bad economic times and Apple's are expensive which is the perception even if it's not entirely true-- >> Exactly. >> They are generally even point for point a slight bit more expensive. And their saying Mac users are snooty, Apple is snooty, do you wanna be with the snooty cool kids who think they're too cool for you? Or do you wanna be with the rest of us. >> Yeah. >> They're playing on that which apple has cultivated that we're cool thing so they're hitting back at that. I think it's very smart. >> Tom, do you know that the 2 tripod adjustment knobs that we're looking at right now line up exactly with your eyes? >> I'd no one on the audio Podcast can tell that. >> Really? >> It's freaking me out. >> Okay, let's move a long. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Speaking of Apple, we know now that the WWDC will be in June in San Francisco, Apple confirmned this on Thursday, the dates are June 8 through June 12. We're thinking they may release some version of snow leopard, I'm hoping for that. And also Rafe believes that he's got a scoop. >> Well I've some minor scoop, but a guy I talked to who's a developer-- >> The guy I know. >> This guy I know, he says to me-- >> He has a store. [Simultaneous Talking] >> Just call him Phil. Don't bother yourself with who it is just trust it. >> He says to me and this is the truth, this is really what he said. He said to me -- are you ready for this? >> I'm waiting. >> What did he say, go, tell the story. >> He says maybe there's a tablet coming. >> For real? >> Well -- >> That's not the way you said it earlier. You're trying to get us sell it. >> I -- he's expecting a tablet and I mean obviously a lot of other people are -- >> How big? >> What? >> How Big? >> I don't know means I never-- >> Net book tablet? >> Net book or Tablet, I'm thinking tablet actually and that's where -- I'm really hoping for it. >>I can't imagine they'd be ready to ship in anytime soon but maybe I'm just being too conservative with them. I just really don't feel in my gut that their going to come out with new hardware at WWDC. >> I bet there'll be a new iPhone. >> You think so, really? >> I think a new iPhone, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Everybody seems to think so and I just don't. >> I think the Tablet's maybe 30 percent is what I would say because you're right. It's an awkward time to come out with an expensive piece of new portable hardware. >> What's a new iPhone gonna have? >> Maybe more CPU, so it actually works. >> So incremental upgrade. >> I'm just saying. >> So it works. [Laughter] >> Maybe different colors. >> I'm most excited about snow leopard. >> Me too. >> That's what I'm most excited about. >> Yeah I -- because I wanna dump outlook on VM on my machine and use Mac Mail for exchange. That's just me. >> Colored iPhone's? >> Nah. >> But that sounds like something they would do you know kinda like the Nano line you know. >> Now you can get your iPhone's in white, black and gray. [Simultaneous Talking] >>And maybe more storage. >> Oh, definitely. >> More storage, yeah right. >> I want more storage. >> More storage, more CPU, multi processing 'cause they're gonna need it or multitasking because they're going to need it eventually you know. >> Video capture. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Pirate Bay is trying to help you out with a secure VPN service that allow you to keep yourself away from the Swedish intellectual property rights enforcement directive if your in Sweden or from away from anybody else anywhere else. Five Euro's a month, so it's about 7 bucks US and their calling it iPreditor because iPred is the acronym for the Swedish intellectual property rights enforcement directive. >> So this is a VPN into the Pirate Bay. >> Yeah. >> So you can go in Pirate Bay in stealth mode. >> Wow. >> And Torrent to all of your legal, they-- 80 percent of their stuff is legal anyway. That's what they said in the court case. >> And the other 20 percent is what gets downloaded. [ Laughter ] >> Or whatever. >> That's probably true. Anyway the point is now you can do it without getting caught. >> So, but BitTorrent is already not trackable. This is just getting the Torrents itself via Pirate Bay now also being not trackable. So if that last little bit right, is that what this is about? >> Makes you anonymous. >> Yeah. >> So there is no way anybody can tell. You're doing the tracker and the downloading all through the VPN with the Pirate Bay. So nobody can spy on you, you can use [inaudible] for this too. But it's the ongoing war between the Pirate Bay and the Swedish government. >> You know, right-- I did the --you know, I'm sorry. The challenge-- the thing is here it's very easy for an ISP to block VPN. It happens all the time. I go to a show or something and there's open WiFi and everything is great except I can't use my VPN, it just won't work. >> That blocks all VPNs-- [inaudible] >> An ISP has pretty much kick all of its business costumers off. >> That's true. >> To block this. >> Yeah, you're right. >> I don't think that's gonna happen. >> No, I hope not. >> You don't think, that would happen. >> Here's one thing that may happen, next week on April first we don't think it's an April fools joke is Blackberry APP world will be released at CTIN. This is Blackberry's APP store for obviously their mobile devices. And it looks as if they may have a minimum at price of 2.99 each. So we won't see any 99 cents or 1.99. >> Yeah we've talked about that before. >> It's 2.99 per-- >> Say what? >> A higher profit margins for the developers, yeah we've talked about this before on Buzz Out Loud, the 299 minimum. Because blackberry's saying, hey this are business aps. We're not going for flashlight and little-- [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> Well that's an engadget capture although it might be an actual Blackberry-- >> Business people never do anything personal, they never play games, they never do Twitter, they never do Facebook that's ridiculous. >> Well instead of trying to make 'em more sophisticated APP stores, not saying that you won't have games or anything like that, but they're saying we're not gonna be flooded with a bunch of frivolous stuff. This is gonna be good stuff worth paying 3 bucks for. >> So there won't be any farting. No iFarting on the blackberry. >> I would pay for good iFart application or a black fart or whatever it is. [Laughter] I don't know. [ Laughter ] >> I'm sorry, I hate live shows. >> The Blackberry has no gas. >> It's running out of gas. So there is one difference right, the blackberry app stores is gonna have higher priced apps but the developers get more out of it. They get a higher profit margin than you might get from Apple. Meantime, Windows is trying to force developers to pay 99 dollars every time they upgrade an application from the Windows Mobile Marketplace. >> Cause Microsoft knows from experience that when you release the product in 1.0 version, it's always perfect and you're not gonna need to pay to upgrade it. >> Microsoft's theory-- >> I mean this is not that much. It's 99 dollars to the developer, one time. >> No it's -- >> It's not per user or per download. >> [Simultaneous] No. >> But it's 4 times more than Apple charges right? >> Well Apple charges 99 dollars a year to be in its developer program. >> Okay. >> And you can update your app as many times as you want without any extra charge. >> Except you have to wait 3 months for them [inaudible] >> Android -- Android charges 25 dollars once. That's it. And you're in the app store forever. So >> Ah, you know -- >> Microsoft is the least cost effective. >> Yeah. >> Well, the -- >> If you're -- I don't know if the company that's -- has the same track record as Microsoft and have a lot of security updates for their products, and you have to pay 99 dollars every time you want to update the security. >> Every time Microsoft releases a patch that you've gotta adapt to. >> Right, if Microsoft were in the position of all the developers for the Windows Mobile store, they'd be paying a lot of money to update their software. >> Yeah. >> The truth is of course that this numbers that we're talking about whether it's 25 dollars a year or 99 dollars a year, 99 dollars an update, when you talk about an app that's even slightly successful, these are not big numbers. But it's bizarre because it's not big numbers for Apple or RIM or Microsoft either why they -- >> Well Tom [Simultaneous Talking] >> To keep the price up. >> Would you think that they would want to make the barrier lower to keep making their app better. >> Yeah, right. >> Exactly. >> So that they have the most compelling apps on the market place on their operating system but that's not the way it is. >> Tom Krazit seems to think that Microsoft is trying to give developers a disincentive to rush hastily coded applications to the market hoping that they'll take their time and emphasize quality over speed with this. But what it's gonna do is-- [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> When you're saying, okay, we're gonna make an app for a bunch of different platforms. We're gonna make it for Android cause it's cheap. We're gonna make it for iPhone cause it's popular. Now it's starting to get costly, should we bother paying that extra 99 bucks for Microsoft? Maybe not. >> Exactly. >> Maybe will stay out of that one for now or we'll role it out later. >> Although it's a hunt, yeah. >> I mean it's not like you say. It's not a big incentive but when you got all these different app stores out there like Blackberry and Nokia and Android and iPhone, so you start to go with some companies, not all, are gonna say, you know what, we're just not gonna do it for that one. Now do the apps have to be approved before they go on to the store because that's one of the things that Apple does that really slows down invasion? It's not the money. It's the fact that when you update -- when you release or update an app, Apple has to approve it and that's slowing some developers down because they take sometimes take awhile. So maybe that's the way for them to [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> Yeah it does take a few weeks actually >> To keep their cue a little lighter by not being flooded with minor updates. >> And that reminds us, we talked about the app store refund, the controversy yesterday and we were speculating like would you be able to refund your apps because the story was that if someone gets an app returned, the developer has to foot the cost of the entire app even though the developer only gets 70 percent of the cost of the app when its charged. Tom Krazit has a follow up on CNET News today that says, really developers aren't worried about this. Frankly, it's very difficult to return an iPhone app. They don't just accept apps in return. The 90 days is for the developer agreement [stuttering], iTunes won't let you take 90 days to return an app. You have to show that there's something wrong with the app to get it refunded. It's not impossible but that app store terms and condition say, "Technical problems may delay or prevent delivery. Your exclusive and sole remedy with respect to the product that is not delivered within a reasonable period will be either replacement of such product or refund of the price paid for such product as determined by Apple otherwise no refunds are available." So you have to show something went wrong to get your money back. >> In fact, we have a caller about that that will tell us how that worked later. Also, this is not anything new TechCrunch pointed this out a few days ago and said, "Hey, this sucks." But this was always the terms of agreement for developers. >> I have an app I'd like to return but it was like a 4 dollar app. Know, so I also jumped through hoops. I didn't even know I could get my money back. >> Well you can unless there's something technically wrong. >> There is. It crushes all the freaking time. >> Well I -- and I don't know if that's enough. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> That's not wrong? >> I think it. >> It doesn't work. >> I think it has to be like you didn't get the app. >> Oh, I got it. I just can't use it. >> Well, maybe. You could try. >> Listen Mr. Apple don't try to pull your fancy pants contract stuff on me. I want my 4 dollars back. >> And frankly. >> I want my 4 dollars. >> The amount of refunds are much less than 3 percent but even if it was 3 percent and you sold a thousand copies of 70 cent -- of a 99-cent app you'd still make 670 dollars. So even a higher return rate is not gonna bankrupt anybody. >> No. >> Poke and some. >> There's another app you maybe able to buy in the iPhone app store starting next week, Skype has called a press conference at CTIA in Las Vegas. We don't know for sure that it's the iPhone application but if you go to cnetnews.com that's the speculation at this point because they have said that they do want to release an iPhone application and that they're working on it. >> And Apple historically has not blocked voice -- not blocked all, they blocked some, but they have let a couple of voice over IP apps through for the iPhone and the iPod Touch. >> On WiFi only. >> Yeah, exactly, that's a very good point, because those don't in their mind interfere with their, the cellular revenues. Fring for example offers access to Skype and that's pretty cool but it will be, a Skype app would be important. It would be a very important app, it'll be great for people who travel because then you could you know, use the iPhone to make cheap calls home and not keep call you. >> Yeah, windows mobile users have been enjoying that for a long time. Skype version already exists for windows mobile. Nokia plans to embed some of the tones with Skype plans. Skype has worked with the company called iSkoot to develop a right phone that is sold a Huchison 3 UK so Skype shown up everywhere. >> It's just that VoIP Developers have to be careful not to -- to make sure their apps don't actually work over cellular because then Apple will block it. It won't let it into the store. >> Well any carrier will block it. >> Yeah. >> And carriers don't want that. [Simultaneous Talking] >> Until the carriers figure out someway to make revenue from that. >> Do you think WiMAX could be a different story, would they let it use over-- work over WiMAX. >> No, it's a carrier thing. It's not a technology thing. >> No, yeah I know, but -- >> Depends on what WiMAX has paid for. >> Well if Sprint is running WiMAX and it's a sprint phone, they're not gonna let VoIP over there unless they get money out of it. >> But AT&T runs you know this huge network of WiFi access points and that they still block VoIP over GSM. >> Yeah. >> Cause I mean that's their cash cow. >> Yeah, because that's a cellular network exactly. >> Doesn't a Skype phone in the UK run on 3D though you don't have to be on a WiFi to make a Skype calls over the Skype phone. >> I don't know, is that right? >> In the UK, I'm pretty sure that's the case. >> Well theoretically it's possible, it's just you know, the phones that have both in them, the carriers want to maximize their revenues from them. >> Right, I feel like we've been talking about mobile all day, so let's move on from there and talk about this story from paid content.org which says that Hulu and Disney are in possible talks to have content from Disney go on Hulu and the source says that they're getting serious. >> Yeah, it's interesting, this is all speculation but what paid content is positing is would Disney insist that NBCU and News Corp extend their commitments and would they preserve their ability to stream their shows elsewhere without Hulu. Right now NBCU and News Corp both have to stream all of their shows in Hulu even if they do it on their own site. So ABC has been resistant because they want to keep control of their video outside of Hulu. So that would be nice because CBS has stayed out of Hulu for that very reason. CBS who owns CNET has pursued a tactic of putting their video in as many different channels as possible or at least a lot of different channels maybe. >> Uhmm. >> And so you know, that's one of the reasons CBS hasn't gone into Hulu but if ABC were able to strike a deal like that, you could start to see all four of the big networks show up there. >> Because they have too, because everybody starts using Hulu as kind of the default, you know. >> Portal. >> Portal, thank you. >> You're welcome. >> For cool video content. I love Hulu. You know, I'm disappointed when I want to watch a show online and it's not on Hulu. >> I'm kinda done with Hulu these days though, with the whole blocking boxee. >> The boxee. >> And with only having five episodes of [inaudible], why do they limit almost all the new shows to the past five episodes so I can catch up on old episodes on Hulu. I almost never use it anymore unless my DVR messes up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I know [Simultaneous Talking] I'm not happy about. >> I like -- you know Hulu is my office television versus the living room television which is comcast. >> Well I an interesting story on the New York Times today says that a lot of those stars that are on Twitter now aren't writing their own twits which you probably suspected but it's true. Fifty-cent for instance, he has his assistant Chris Romero do most of his twittering for him but Shack is the real Shack. In fact shack said in this story, a 140 characters man, if you can't write that, that's sad. >> You need help. >> Yes this is something called ghost twittering where you have a ghost writer of your book, you can also have a ghost twitterer and I designed it so disingenuous and I realize the argument is that when you have a celebrity, they are a brand and they have many people managing that brand. That's fine but Twitter was invented not just to disseminate information but interact with other people. And I know that this celebrities know how to text message. If they can text message, they certainly can Twitter and I just, I posted on my own Twitter today, I said I am this early opposed to this and I'm gonna repeat that. I am this early opposed, I don't like it. >> All right, two things. First of all, Natali, you should start a list outing all the ghost twitterers. >> I should. >> You should, we should, that would be cool. Secondly. >> We'll call it Twitter posers, twitterposers.com. >> I like it, I like it. Secondly, I'm just saying, if this CNET thing doesn't workout for me, this is the business I'm gonna go into. I'm gonna be a ghost twitterer and I'm gonna get rich. [ Laughter ] >> This is awesome. >> You're like someone who's twittering, she is like, yeah I'm a ghost twitterer. She's like I really can only maintain four people but I think that if I find out that someone is not twitting for themselves, that's an automatic unfollow. >> I mean, it's just missing the point Shack gets it right. Shack is like, this is my chance to circumvent all of the media and go directly to the people and talk to them without anybody interpreting what I'm saying. >> But. >> Why would I have somebody else do that for me? >> He also said if you can't write 140 characters, I feel sorry for you. >> But Natali has got a really good point. He is, Shack is managing his own brand and kudos to him for doing that but a lot of celebrities don't' manage their own lives. They don't manage their own brand, they've people who do that for them, and they're actors. I mean what is their real personality like? It's the personality that is created for them by their marketing people. To give them unfettered access to the public, I mean sure, that would be great but maybe they don't want that, maybe their brand managers don't want that. >> So don't try to pretend like it's really them then. >> Joaquin Phoenix has his, I don't know if he has a Twitter account but I would [inaudible] a guess that whoever is casting on the movie doesn't want him anywhere near a Twitter keyboard. [ Laughter ] >> There is no such thing as Twitter keyboard. >> You know what I mean. >> Don't. >> He is a Twitterer. >> Don't pretend like it's really you then. >> I've got a Twitter keyboard on my own. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> I've actually seen people's accounts where somebody says, hey this is so and so's assistant or they do a bracket to let you know, it's not actually the real guy posting so they could just keep you updated. >> I think that's fine. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, if a person doesn't have enough time, or they're not adept at it but they want you be able to follow them and your honest about it, no big deal, but this sort of like, hey, it's really me but its not, that's you know. >> Lying is wrong. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> This was from the guy who was upset about the Apple app [inaudible]. >> This has happened in news a lot-- is that fewer and fewer of our celebrities are brands and we expect more authenticity, we see that happening in news all the time. It's less of, you look at Walter Cronkite [phonetic] and he's up on a stage that we cannot reach. That just doesn't happen anymore. We expect-- >> That's a new reality now. >> To be able to reach out and interact with our news disseminators and I think we can expect the same thing out of our musicians and our actors and any other public presenter, we've definitely expected it out of our politicians. So if you can't manage your own twitter account and that is base level, then that is something that says, I think that says something about you as a public figure that you can't handle it. >> You can't handle the truth. >> We're talking to Mars Lander here as well, right? Cause Mars Lander had someone ghost twittering. >> That's true. >> Yeah, I'm on following the Mars Lander. >>Very disappointed. >> Yeah. >> I think I might have to unfollow Jango the dog [inaudible] in this case. >> What are you talking about? Jingo the dog twitters herself. You think we make that? You think we could make up those thoughts? >> I'm telling you, Jango has his own twitter keyboard. >> Her. >> Her own twitter keyboard, so. >> Oh please. Anyway, Natali really good point. [inaudible]. >> Thanks. >> And of course Rafe, we talked yesterday about the business model of twitter being speculated upon. You had a really good column on web board today, sayin' don't forget folks. >> They really haven't announced a business model yet. >> No they haven't. If you read the quotes and all the stories in the times, the journal, the business insider and CNET that I've written, Emily [inaudible] has said, " Oh, this is an interesting question. We think we're very valuable while we don't know what our business model is, we're gonna experiment, we're gonna try this, we're gonna try that and here is our timeline. He has not announced a business model, there are no pro accounts, there are no twitter ad words. >> But you said that's okay? >> I do. >> Why? >> I think that because the value of twitter keeps going up. Witness the number of celebrities who are coming into it trying to extract the value from it. The value of twitter keeps going up and I think actually they have time and I'm going back to what I've said in the past but almost every starter, I think the more twitter builds it's value, the more there'll be able to monetize. I don't think they have to sell pro accounts. I think they sell access to the fire hose of data to analytics companies, I think they sell an advertising API so say twirl or twitech and put little ads in and they get a piece of the revenue and so does twitter. I think this will work and I don't think they have to do it today. They've got enough money in the bank to let it go for a while and increase the value of the service so that it becomes indispensable and then they can slowly turn on the revenue screen. >> Now, you're not making money from the sales force analytics? Cause this seems like a deal that they already have decided how to monetize -- I don't how much little they're gonna make out of that. >> Yeah, there're little experiments going on there like that one on the exact twits. What? Like the ExecTwits thing which unfetterate the media where there experiments and they're not necessarily scalable but I think they're zeroing in on it and I'm in no [inaudible], I used to say, this is ridiculous. Twitter has been around for three years and they've got no revenue stream but they're a little experiment and I think as they increase the value, they'll be able to turn on the revenue stream like the behind the scenes with things like the sales force that's selling analytics, selling the fire hose, selling ad links that they'll make it work and companies and individuals will never have to pay for and I think that's great. >> A Russian Soyuz rocket has blasted out from Kazakhstan's Baikonur Cosmodrome to ferry a three member crew to the international space station and among them is the first tourist to return to space, US billionaire Charles Simonyi. >> Simonyi. >> I think it's Simonyi and he is a Microsoft developer, he wrote life word or... >> He was a Microsoft developer. >> Soft word tycoon as they call him in the BBC. >> Didn't he write Word or something like that? We should look this up. Any rate-- >> Apparently, whatever he wrote was so successful that he was able to pay $35 million to life. >> For a second trip and this is the international space station is now expanding from 3 members to 6 so that they can do more science experiments. Simonyi says that he will participate in helping with the experiments and he considers the $35 million to be a contribution to the exploration of space. >> Well the Russian. >> He should buy a time chair. [ Laughter ] >> They should sell an ISS time share. >> Oh, your room is waiting for you, [Simultaneous Talking]. >> That's essentially what Mr. Simonyi-- >> We haven't touched a thing. He is helping you know and other space tourists are helping to fund the Russian Space Program, which is good. >> And the ISS. >> Yes. >> Also in an attempt to divert robots from their eventual plans of killing us all. They are trying to develop a robot soccer team that can beat a real human soccer team. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> Hey, what do you mean beat here? >> So this is something like World Cup. >> In soccer. >> Okay. >> Football. >> It's a team of soccer players but it's not like when you go to the arcade and you control your men. They're not people playing against other people. These are automatic robots that are autonomous and play each other. >> They better play nice. >> We've seen -- we've seen soccer playing robots for a long time. Actually, the maker fair usually features some soccer playing robots. Up till now they've been pretty much on wheels kind of bumping the ball around, but they're getting better. They're up on their feet now. They still can't run. That's the big thing, is being able to sense and run to kick the ball. But there is now a challenge on underway that they want to get together a team. This is the goal, hahaha, to get together a team that could play and beat a human team. >> Now, like I said when you say beat, I see a bloody mass of human flesh on the team after this. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> By 2050, no, this is [stuttering], this is how we divert them. We get them into the arena and play sport with them. >> That's how we divert with them. We build machines that can run and kick and reason and swarm in packs around an object. >> And then we say hey, can you beat us at football, and then they're like -- then they drop their guns, they're like, oh yeah, we can totally beat you at football. >> How do you create -- [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> And then when we beat them they get angry and kill everybody. >> How do you create fan hood around one group of robots versus another though. >> How do you create fan hood around a bunch of guys that are not even from your country playing for your team, you know. I mean -- >> That's not how World Cup is. >> You know, how many people rooted for Deep Blue to beat Kasparov or whoever? >> Right, it's all about, you know. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> Robots. >> It's our team. There are robots. >> Yeah. >> I mean this will be like -- this will be like shirts versus skins. First you have, you know, the human player is over here in their bracket and then you have the robot teams over here and then they have this giant face-off at the end, hopefully it's not a real face-off. >> If Milan can borrow Beckham from LA and he's English, I don't think he sees robots as being the problem. >> Oh, free agent robot, then you have mixed teams and you've got human robot interaction and then mating and then boom silence. >> Yup, pretty much. [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> It all ends up with doom no matter which way we look at it. We got to move along to the voicemails now. We've mentioned earlier, Natali mentioned there was a call about the appster return policy. >> Hello guys, this is Laurence from Indiana. I'm just calling 'cause was listening to yesterday's show about returning apps. I actually did return an app to -- when the appster first came out. And -- when you go into your accounts information page, you just click on, you have a problem and you can complain about the app in there. You don't actually call them up. You just send that and a referred person gets back to you through e-mail. And they either say, they can and they can't return the app or whatever case maybe. They did return the app in my case. They actually did not deactivate the app though, being the goodie guy that I was though, I just deleted the app from library. But I've not had any experience in returning the app where they had actually deactivated the app. So I don't know if they just don't worry about it, they're not concerned about it or that was just something they were doing in the early days where they were like, well, we'll just give you your money back or what. I don't know. But I just thought I let you guys know and you guys have a good day. Bye. >> He's so honest. We have such outstanding view -- listeners and viewers. >> Good man, Laurence. >> No kidding. >> Good man. You kept that app didn't you? [ Laughter ] >> I wonder -- I wonder if you could go and re down -- if you delete an app and then redownload it if you've already paid for it they'll let you redownload it for free. >> I don't think [inaudible]. >> I wonder if they forgot to flag it. Why don't you try and call us back. But then delete it again, we just wanna know. >> No, don't do that. That's big headache. >> No, no, no. Do it. >> Do it. >> Do it. >> Our next call comes from the god of thunder, who owns a Zune. >> Hi, this is Walden [phonetic], I own a Zune 30 gigabyte brown. So there some gigashot [inaudible] for you there. Listening to podcast 939 today, love the show by the way guys, thought I should throw that in there. The Zune software will allow you to reap your CDs into Windows Media audio lossless format. So there is a device that will play lossless format, but it doesn't do it in MP3 yet, maybe something in a future release. By the way Tom, bought your book, love it. >> Oh, my mistake. >> That's why you placed this one. >> It was not [inaudible] and yes complementing my book will the best way to get your voicemail for you. No, I'm kidding. >> It obviously works. >> Buying it is the best way to get your voicemail. >> Alright, let's move on to the email. We have one from Chris the Commuter and this email comes from his 12-year-old son. Drops on water on Mars, superheated exhaust from NASA's Phoenix spacecraft splashed small bits of mud into the craft's landing struts--little beads of material that grew, merged, and even dripped over the next few weeks. Those dynamic blobs must have been drops of concentrated saltwater, concludes a large scientific team by the Nilton Renno, a Phoenix investigator at the University of Michigan. And there's a link here that we will gladly post in the show notes. >> Real water, cool. Because they tried to scrape it up apparently and it was really tough to scrape up. But then they noticed the splashes. >> It being ice and all. >> Yes, exactly, exactly. We also got an email from Silos the Pyro from Southern California who wanted to let us know that there are more than one high school robotics teams out there. He's a junior at La Canada High and the drive captain for Team 2429. So in the spirit of grace's [phonetic] professionalism, he would like us to say go rough 27 and 2429 and said P.S. if you read this on the show, we'll put a sticker for Buzz Out Loud on our robot and send in a picture. Bribery. >> Cool. >> Another way to get your email read. >> Aren't there also high school teams building like autonomous helicopter robots? >> Are there? >> I believe, I believe I saw something on TV. >> There has to be. >> [Simultaneous talking] TV shows about that. There's --looks like a lots of robot out there. >> Yeah, and they're all coming to get us. >> Okay. >> Eventually. >> Go robots. >> Don't worry. >> We've got a lot of life before that happens. Mr. Answer 90 writes in and says first off, I would like to say you guys are the first podcast that I have listened to and I am 16. And you at this point seemed to be the best I would say so far. So thank you for supplying something interesting while doing my homework. Also, the tangent of a circle-- >> No. >> Is the point where a line intersect or touches a circle. So yeah, I hope this wasn't too stupid of an email. >> No, it's a typical email. [ Laughter ] >> If [inaudible] Buzz Out Loud well actually. >> His got, yeah, he's getting right into the well actually [simultaneous talking]. >> We've figured that out after the recording stopped in the chat room yesterday. But thanks to everyone who pointed it out. Yes, it does intersect at one point, a tangent. That is the definition of a tangent. >> It is. >> Oh, you act like you weren't even here. >> If [stutter], if I have been here you would not --that mistake had never would have gone uncorrected. >> Of course not. >> So thank you to everyone who sent a voicemail about that as well. >> Yeah. >> The email and the voicemail. Yeah. >> There are at least--there are hundreds of thousands of voicemails from that. >> There were quite a few. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, you should head on over to cnettv.com, lots of cool videos. There's the new Apple Bite going up today and all I'm gonna say is I get my butt kicked in it. And you can also find a bunch of-- [ Inaudible Remark ] >> Video podcast to download there as well, the new video podcast tap. >> Watch Brian Tong beat up on Jason in today's Apple Bite. >> Can I get a pick? >> And we also have our blog, bol.cnet.com, where you can find all the ways to contact us, send us emails, send us voicemail, and send us hate mail. >> Don't send us hate mail. >> And vote on the Webware 100 starting on Tuesday, www.webware.come/100. >> Fantastic. >> Yeah. >> And Rafe. >> Yes. >> What are some of the things that we're seeing this year that are different from last year's Webware 100. Can you tell us about that quickly before we go? >> A lot more social apps, believe it or not than even before. >> Uh-huh. >> More interactive stuff, more productivity apps, a lot--the web innovation has not slowed down. It's really cool. There's really good apps to vote on in the 100. ^M00:39:29 [ Background Music ] >> Okay, great. >> Yeah. See you later folks. >> Thank you very much. Have a good weekend everyone, we'll see you on Monday. >> Bye.