Ep.1311 : Facebook's not building a phone, or is it?
I've read song I'm Jason -- -- -- about what about that allowed to have podcast and determine like episode one.
Perhaps some 311 -- there ago.
Everything -- -- -- future is finally here is it today we are -- that not here -- the island I real weird out of it still looks like me I look like Molly afraid it looks like crane we can't fix everything and the need both behind aboard welcome.
New producer thank -- -- yes but you know it's -- training -- to kind of fill in for for -- out Canon you know pulled everything --
-- this caveat here Friday is -- -- human infants were deliberately crack right in fact that does like to tackle something really difficult like the depth of net neutrality okay so --
-- -- in here -- -- the top story today face.
Book -- you're building a phone. At least that's what been reported. Techcrunch broke the story last night that.
FaceBook is building its own mobile.
Phone it has hired it has to high level FaceBook employees which it got from Google.
We want from Google and Joe Hewitt and Mathieu but it -- -- people's -- secretly working on the project that is so secret apparently FaceBook PR doesn't even know about it.
Yeah so on the surface -- you think about this.
Well you like it you don't like it if it if it you know if -- well.
What FaceBook the same so there's a story it says Facebook's -- phone yeah and then FaceBook immediately denies it in a very interesting way.
Saying FaceBook and I quote is not building a phone.
Our view is that almost all experiences would be better -- they were social so integrating deeply into existing platforms not think this is great enable us the people mentioned in the story.
Are working on these projects.
And it goes on -- -- -- -- -- phone but they do have people working on integration into mobile devices in particular what.
People were speculating about its integration deep integration into the address book.
So that your FaceBook actress but an opponent -- -- --
One and say yeah -- don't already kind of have that I know -- -- on Android and you sync.
With the FaceBook app it integrates all right FaceBook contacts directly into your contact list button it's sort of were kind of there but you don't have.
The likes in the IDs and both us and all that's the I mean you really don't need any post showing up my contact with the element political opening up an address book yet and I -- -- if I want.
I think this is of is a really smart thing for FaceBook -- and that to put a faithful brand on a phone would work.
Or could work -- like Microsoft but can work didn't work at all.
-- -- with the Nexus One which this actually reminds me a little bit more than that just one of kind of thing than it does akin.
In a sense that there -- there enlisting.
From what we can tell other hardware manufacturers to work with them to -- kind of this.
I'm I don't into the --
I don't think that FaceBook wants to build a platform to the extent to the same way that Google wants to build a platform share because they they if they do this'll do it.
And -- do it on Android you right to do some custom version some units Android version.
And that will be their phone and then we'll have to get developers more for the things pickle but the developers involved but FaceBook have support record with developers because they keep changing their platforms.
Yeah so it'll go --
-- -- before we keep on going to mean you could say that it's and I say but.
From a from a bottom just from a consumer standpoint I don't see people switching over.
The phones that they currently have just to get a FaceBook phone even if there was an entry level.
99 dollar FaceBook phone with FaceBook integration major -- but -- -- people.
Are going to jump ship with what they have that bit.
For them they even remotely think of it in -- hardware.
It doesn't make sense I don't know man though it is -- make cents.
They might not jump ship for a FaceBook phone but there are a lot FaceBook users there 500 million and -- -- and -- those users have never had to let's say a Smartphone before and there is a FaceBook phone and they're addicted to FaceBook the use that all the time.
I think that's enough kind of brand recognition. That they were actually buying into it for the for the -- sense that.
The FaceBook is already so integrated into so many people's lives --
And they are in agreement then you have these phones that do all these amazing things that happen to have.
FaceBook apps were the general user uses FaceBook pretty much -- apps that are out there on Android platform on the Apple platform.
Do -- the average FaceBook user needs to do you -- I just don't see why they would go in -- -- phone and then on top of that.
If FaceBook wants to make money and revenue -- -- is on build a stream I mean they they still have to really figure out.
-- economy sent to me to monetize FaceBook as a whole if they want this to continue to live on through the phone.
Right right I could --
This being a series came from what -- try to -- be the low -- social phone.
That if faithful -- -- the amount and any I -- not necessary to FaceBook network -- out of but.
You know phone that is very tightly integrated FaceBook could work that's one of the challenges that FaceBook would have no matter what they do -- when they start to build the FaceBook.
Into the phone infrastructure -- trust.
I mean you you -- who trusts face do you really want.
Do you really want FaceBook to know every call you're making to whom or how long. You know and how that.
I mean you really want it for baseball what FaceBook has -- -- -- changing it out halfway through like they do men behave somewhat FaceBook has shown us that how they do -- pricey I don't want.
A face -- phone right.
You can just put that in the circular little -- while -- don't.
I like right now right now right here who here in this room.
A game it's not just -- -- out who here would even consider buying a -- -- Poland today.
I know I --
I -- -- I wouldn't consider buying a face but phone I mean yeah I I wouldn't be however it's hard for me to really think about like what -- the phone would actually did use that and Android phone with a really good FaceBook app wouldn't that.
I don't I don't think there'd be done much smaller I mean this thing for what I do re uploaded it looked like then branding.
Credits. Lack of privacy I'm no I'm I don't want this I want -- I want.
I mean --
I'm locked in enough on the iPhone and that is that is already too restrictive and I don't want FaceBook tell me how to run my life which.
You know get and hope -- infrastructure -- -- the phone communications might not but the branding it's.
Different -- even when you talk about below and like how -- can try to be a social phone.
Yeah the real one reason why that didn't work everyone thought okay even though we were all ripping on the can we were thinking you know what.
Okay maybe it'll get it -- what kids didn't want it kids didn't get it that they want iphones that are phones -- too expensive it was 99 dollars.
Notes -- -- there is it and the faced relatively cheap and with -- little cracked but that's like with the they puberty guys fifth on the right.
Sorry with FaceBook subsidized services it could be -- competitive -- the thing to worry about here this might explain by the way just just random speculation that the reason that Apple.
And FaceBook didn't get together on paying.
Was because they both know that there about the fight in the phone that may be idea that -- -- that's a little -- -- but either way I mean this is infusing them about anyway okay.
Speaking of over troll so.
Everybody knows that four -- is no big fan of the MPA of Motion Picture Association and apparently the fortune and bot -- of fortune army launched a distributed denial of service attack on.
The MP eight.
This is -- and corporate thing -- the protest of the future.
So this and it took on the website right yeah --
This is -- is kind of MPAA they'll get together and they throw it a DDoS attack.
Against one of these.
Service -- -- association disease.
And maybe they get the message okay you know.
Or can doesn't like us but this is kind of like they do that tolerance be -- the Amazon and office tower -- what is -- gonna do a longer yeah they gonna do.
In the long run we took your site down for -- dollars -- with this the org organization -- on.
The -- is the gonna do what they do -- -- -- the millennia ball's not like they didn't know that there was this group of like passionate file shares that but hey guys why we're gonna take them down they they already knew that.
This doesn't this really doesn't do a whole lot to look like bolster there cause I don't think.
Except of course you know probably that the big thing that it does it gets shows like Essen in of the news media to kind of pay attention to it.
I just don't know -- it's the right kind of publicity to you.
You don't it make people who may be undecided on the file sharing issue.
Go only -- -- right you should be able to share those files it because they took you know the RI AA website down with a DDoS it's.
It's like a lot of Pickett's.
You know ought to strike at Pickens picketing at record -- Demonstrations.
Where it's effective for a very small number of people -- radio through this and an inconvenience them.
Although -- he's either -- idea I feel like okay shirt you know take on the site you know makes -- noise but.
It's I feel like almost always you'll their purchasing does that take on the site the racing and I don't like the RA a because they don't let me copy my music where I want it so obstinate -- -- you know.
I don't wanna buy my music -- wanna buy an album they prevent me from using pirate -- I'm gonna take on the night.
That's not even a valid like reason to protest and I don't know we'll we'll do more to -- -- -- -- -- --
Are trying to make a segue here about illegal music sharing with the this next story is about Napster and Napster no longer --
Legit Google apps -- is gone totally legit a couple of years ago and is now finally made its way to violence devices.
Does this matter -- the thing about is currently there's a variety of some.
Apps available on the iPhone that do you have subscription based services yelling rhapsody that you have you on there's mod. Thumb play.
Napster is getting into the game with it on the thing the thing that I see the of this like.
You would think that with all these services. That may be -- if there was really a -- a strong and a desire for subscription music that Apple might be threatened by this but they're clearly just.
They clearly have no problem with letting these apps exist live on -- on people's iPhone devices because really they're not really taking too much of -- chunk out of Apple's pockets so that service let's to the subscriptions bringing your music it's a subscription service you know -- candidate tire leveraging your music -- ten million tracks or Napster hasn't service -- Tennessee have access to that from your phone -- --
Ten bucks and --
Best buy own Napster remember that yeah that's the first thing so it you know it's kind of the name of pay Napster is still around guys that he didn't know and -- on -- iPhone.
But I keep coming out -- -- they're not they're never really making that much of -- -- -- -- is kind of like yeah we're here to and you know a passionate people still are it's our around keen to the idea of subscription based music with and not owning it in the end.
It's the -- up after all these years.
Once we have really really pervasive wireless pro yeah yeah I cloud access everywhere and it'll work right now you -- if you listen to your tunes in the subway.
And -- you can do the thing I think that is its spot -- that's supposed to let you both stream -- -- and cute and and cash.
That'll work --
One music streaming story that I was really excited about until I got into was Tivo launching pandora.
A pandora application so from your Tivo which is what appears in my case that in many people's cases looked at their home audio system.
You could access pandora -- which is really cool but.
It's on Tivo premiere only of course it is because Tivo doesn't want you to use -- old humility once you upgrade.
Pay more money and an alligator pandora and you Tivo this I have to say this is a little micro -- here I am very upset about this because there is no.
Technical reason of course none whatsoever.
To put heat to limit Tivo -- that the pandora application to premiere only which premieres but the more powerful box.
The current Tivo device.
Runs Netflix he runs Amazon's streaming he you know I know run full streaming video and they're not letting streaming music run on these existing devices I am he oh look at Tivo.
She -- -- -- -- I am telling you.
They are Tivo also -- drives me crazy is they're just I don't know we talked about you -- -- -- company that.
Does not innovate they sit on their patents -- boxes are slow as molasses.
-- interface is crap and --
You know because they're lead that they are the name in the Brandon in all these other cable operators that are you comparing interface -- Comcast -- the early on not -- I'm not compared I'm --
These other cable cable operators -- -- they have their own that they have their own based DVR software.
-- owns the patents and that's why all the royalties that they have to pay -- -- what's recently DirecTV just has Tivo plugged into it now is there oh Tivo that's been on again off again.
And and and facts its its funny -- even mention that because I've held out for the last three years from upgrading to DirecTV HD DVR because I keep hearing.
Does the Tivo HD DVR is going into the DirecTV models gonna push out this last -- we finally relented and got.
The DirecTV HD DVR because it's just it's not coming it might be you know some time but at this point it's it's interesting that you say that the that the user interface is these kind of -- -- it is not so it's yeah.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
And they don't care about making it.
Uses as user friendly and -- slick and -- because the the around the shuttle they make money you know date data they had an -- yeah it is there's another -- -- --
-- they never got the sweet deals they needed with the cable companies and they're not taken out.
It kind of miss the boat to a certain -- -- -- have a potentially go he had to do so much more I'm not touching the -- based -- -- -- about it gap that's crashed at the thanks.
-- -- -- if you were on. -- about pandora and Tivo right can Yale illuminated wheel and the rails there.
And speaking of devices that I just don't understand.
Okay this is the new product from HP is called the envy 100 it's an Android powered.
All in one printer with Yahoo! widgets it's.
A printer. With a dock global.
That runs Android not level --
Android. With -- very limited app store.
And HP's been talking about bringing web -- two printers they can -- -- and -- printer which I could -- some utility you know this thing is -- Frankenstein.
Yeah especially -- at that picture here like denies it like you mentioned in prep it's probably a security thing we have all these like you know.
Ugly cords just extending out of the back of this tablet and that it's a little bit more integrated -- that -- actually -- -- man.
But it's fun I mean it's it's not the worst idea in the world the more I thought about this allows like you know I've I have my prayer out in the middle -- -- you know look -- center room in our place.
And it's always is Kenneth sitting there if you're not being used 99% of the time if it actually displayed useful information might interact with a more you know it's not about plans to this -- the weather.
That's put a tablet helper app with your refrigerator that someplace that's gonna are gonna place.
Yeah almost Sonoma County district from this bad -- -- enhancements. I'm not idle -- adopted.
So this product will sell it's called -- smart -- station bio.
All in one.
It'll sell for 399 dollars as a partnership complaints with Yahoo! for widgets. And get the questions and as the tablet come with the printer setup.
Further that the tablet -- the -- are together to get -- to -- other retreat and it but so that there's no makeup I have -- into it and make sure there.
I did do you think it's funny and in all of these kind of promotional things that they like you can play games with it you can play games -- your printer and it's like -- nothing that I ever wanted to do as little calendar and -- --
I'm on the back the drawing board yeah -- -- bring out the web -- printer where you can actually of printer based which I can't imagine what that would be a printing calendars and the place.
We do a lot I mean a lot of the standalone critters actually dual lot nowadays and and when you actually look at the user interface and a tiny little -- that they give you to do these things like.
My parents you know -- -- -- a kronor a year ago -- -- -- what they thought was the best thing in the world can you can you can scan through -- doesn't look good do all the stuff but it's no fun it's not -- at all because the screen is this being right.
And you're never motivated to use -- at least with this you might be able to do something like that and not be prohibited by the size the screen.
Or its abilities that I mean I can see some cool stuff coming out -- it's but touting it as like an Android. You know tablet I think his is a little little stretch it a printer need to use it use it -- -- function and needs to be true to its own nature.
I totally agree it's gonna have serious personalities than any concern -- Patrick.
And after tries to be something it's not -- Somebody's trying to reinvent the CAPTCHA you know those -- yet. Again you know things very go to website and you have type in these things letters and a letter to nature you know your human visually you know you can barely decipher in the computer -- -- well there's a new idea here which is to replace those with advertising.
We -- so.
And terrible yeah onset of the -- thing. Who will probably --
In the demo in the speech that we have here on them all things the -- are the story.
It it replaced with an advertisement.
Where it says it's that type in the letters here.
Type in the words that are quotes which in this case is in Europe or Africa and -- an export eight so this is little demo.
Clinton with that with the quotes -- corporate -- routes they -- type that in.
And -- Hoosier human and it also proves that you've just been told -- goods.
And so this is both too.
Increase retention of brand messages and advertisers -- like it as they know people are typing in this slogans and all the stuff yeah but talk about for the end user feeling like the tool -- set up.
Are you and I am I am -- it will probably gonna do with CNET but I see this and -- and any other site I'm out of there.
Yet isn't this but it is a little prettier there are more colors so.
It's not so early text and this.
Hey everything sponsored these days and they even say in. -- a jacket Jacoby says that we can deliver the cognitive payload up front.
Then we don't need to deliver the users to a site that they don't really wanna go to anyways like a pop outside which.
You know I mean I don't know a lot of those people in this room -- -- -- you know standalone Internet Explorer eight advertisement website.
Versus just typing in browse safer to get to the page the one I understand where they're coming from -- actually makes a lot of sense so -- so do this or we give you a pop up.
Yeah right that's a great class this -- -- -- -- either do this or go here and click on whether the links that we can generate revenue.
You have anti blur as arrow pointing out that this text -- -- totally readable but it could be you know they could do something like what color is the get go our.
Yeah right like that and where you have to like find that Geico gecko and -- thing I mean this this could be.
You know you it could be a quiz yet has an advertising with which was an idea that was floated about ten years ago on the Internet you know blocker --
The -- -- idea I always really liked was the idea of allowing users to use I think we covered it on the show a couple years ago actually where it was -- -- with -- had to do with digitize -- books.
And bringing books into the digital realm that certain words they couldn't figure out -- -- put it up to capture and the more people that.
Answered the same minute message on a -- eventually they knew what that -- actually close for the do is type the don't know exactly right that's that's of many of the capital he seemed to work captures -- one of those is a known word in the otherwise -- -- our -- -- and that's how they're doing -- crowd -- -- -- are so -- -- security is actually being used.
As. A way to to do things that only humans can do right -- -- which is gonna clever and yeah.
Alright on those are gonna go -- okay so obviously you guys know about the app store on Apple's app store and how.
That a lot of restrictive policies previously that prevented a lot of apps from -- -- so recently Apple kind of loosen their grip.
And we're now seen some.
Apps that we've been waiting for that were originally you know offered and then taken down or disapprove so for example.
Everyone knows about Google Voice services and on there's two apps throughout their GV mobile plus and GV connects.
And is that these give you direct interface and access Q your Google Voice account now before.
Apps like this were rejected because Apple would say oh it it duplicates similar functions of the iPhone OS.
And now since they've kind of lighten their gripped where we're -- to -- apps come out that we that -- the users want -- benefit from also -- C 64 which is.
Basic interpreter Apple rejected that before.
Men be because because you -- -- a -- -- -- a kind of an emulation -- -- emulation on the actual -- -- even though it did not mean.
The iPhone so there aren't as their monitor that will -- a commodore 64 emulator definitely real threat and I have half an -- generally look at things got nasty.
Now the big story here what I thought victory was was was Google Voice -- that the key thing here though is that this is they.
Third party interface into Google Voice and it's a paid app didn't we know that Google has or is now working on them their own iPhone version of Google Voice --
Which will be free those who will get and that's what we're waiting for now whether Google does that are so -- which will over handwritten -- to be seen -- now apparently at least that's possible yes and and they they will do because they did have an app yet that was rejected by Apple -- there's a whole brouhaha like you're in Africa and an FCC.
Start looked into it to see if that was actually legal or if Apple could actually do that so.
Maybe personal pressured Apple -- -- it's not having -- deal like -- a loosen their grip a little so this is good for developers.
Yes yeah and the -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- or may not be a big deal but it does seem that the code re interpretation the same thing that you know Adobe and is now able to you know you're in now able to use Adobe tools program for the iPhone seems like.
These emulator is -- possibly kind of included in that same kind of opening of the rules so.
Could possibly mean you see more regulators and --
And ESL that game emulator gonna be fun yeah -- -- those old games Atari 2600. -- -- had a 5200. Blue yeah.
-- so. If you have a -- Smartphone and you lose it or it is somehow appropriated from you.
You now can get mobile recovery and mobile covering app.
Sound an alarm.
You've misplaced it like this record and it starts.
-- -- that the electric shocks -- -- tell you where it is or you can secure which means it's locked down and maybe wipe it says a new service coming right and in which is pretty cool.
Yeah my -- of something they otherwise have to pay for with Apple yes.
Yet it's I mean this thing is you -- it has it only works on specific compatible devices they didn't release a list yet.
On their part of the total equipment coverage and I believe that is actually playing yup but they operate the equipment coverage inside NASA I think the and they did release a list that's all -- Smartphones.
Android Blackberry Windows Mobile and -- -- yeah we just had installed map onto them the end I -- do it in its its.
It's nice I mean it's the whole mobile me find your -- and find your phone but -- Verizon it's probably cheaper because you don't have to drop down 99 dollars per year now it's ridiculous to get access to that so this is get.
But they'll make money -- one -- -- the other.
-- so it's as if you wanna do this one -- this on okay so we're gonna have a little fun here.
Com obviously everyone knows that people have been recently emailing Steve Jobs a lot and a new -- is a Long Island University called student.
Recently reached out to Steve Jobs used in a project come about an iPad iPad program at the campus and she was trying to reach out to the PR department but obviously.
She was -- getting any love from them so she wrote Steve Jobs.
A direct email.
Asked you know asked it BC -- I humbly -- why Apple so wonderfully attentive to the needs of students because they support education program.
Yet ironically the media relations department fails to answer any my questions which are as I've told them essential to my academic performance -- she's home.
Okay I'm I'm wondering if the stories getting play because he's kind of attractive to you but -- --
-- easily looking right so -- Steve Jobs basically -- our goals do not include helping you get a good grade sorry.
It's true it is hello -- service it is and isn't there PR by the way is not -- -- public relations not student relations and you know.
Students republic to -- I mean.
They think the only reason this became -- story is because she was -- -- insistent.
And and Steve was more more of a jerk as time went on and kind of help of lines saying look we're not here -- this is not our job means he basically the idea -- seven emails they know we're here to serve over 300 million users that we -- respond to requests unless they involve a problem as some kind.
I'm sorry then she continues -- I'm what are your 300 million users I do have a problem.
His final answer yeah this is why the story is that you do is far please leave us alone that the your question my -- go away.
Leave me alone with a little tag it says that from it would not have been.
This couldn't handle so easily the widgets that to the PR people to divert -- -- your attention given that it will be done that -- be happy but you know.
And not publicize it doesn't matter but who didn't write that argument. That haven't done the --
They are -- from. The ridiculous to the sublime.
That line first -- were released. RIT -- and here.
Somebody has below a 6502.
And this is an emulator and the emulator emulates things at the electronic transistor level.
In slow down real time on this they --
This is the coolest thing I have ever seen you'd have your mind is exploding right now isn't it that it's I was shocked that I learned to -- -- to do with it like that yeah and a second image from the last very -- knows that I don't even -- -- pretty -- -- he's so I did you work.
It's it's it's pretty interest -- the you actually do anything to with -- and -- transistors fire you go to this little thing here is that you can edit the assembly code on the right.
I also. An entire music and it -- -- you -- it -- -- hex -- and obsolete and -- --
And I'm all over that yet mean machine I I you can Telerate was like easily lose just smiling at his screen I was last night I was -- -- -- stories I have.
Look I FaceBook phone.
There's like all right whatever and six public to a similar in our republic to the emulator and -- -- cool article and if you would like send us.
And voicemail. We don't have -- for you today. The number is 806162638. It's 806 months at sea and -- he.
Try to keep -- about thirty seconds and you knew.
So mom writes to us I happened to catch some of the crate with Craig's list hearing and actually that it interest thing lots of good info and -- were flat spin.
Something I haven't heard talked about was that Bill Clinton pal mentioned that Craig's -- was not charging for adult ads.
Until the attorneys general and the FBI asked them to.
He said the eighties and the FBI suggests that they do with the Craig's list could easily track credit card info and consequently more easily track predators.
Is this ignored experts with -- you know or is it just -- it's one of these things.
Damned if -- and we don't yet so -- first they weren't charging and in ways they and then they were like everything was free for -- -- they started charging and then there profiteering.
You know prostitution so -- of the listing here forgot about the political way.
Our -- right Gallagher on episode 1307. -- -- you can call Apple care.
And jump through some hoops I called Apple Karen said.
The free case app was -- I'll -- allowing me to get a case.
I was transferred to the online store rep who told me over and over that I was not eligible since I was three is outside my return I am dropping so many calls in my area that it's a usable the best part was when they dropped the when the call dropped and -- -- -- back -- -- they can not give.
-- -- --
A by the way communications. -- duplicates you can't have -- irony -- college -- -- -- while.
-- finally Mike -- as is Mike from Newport.
I think you're missing a very very important point about the CD -- a version of Windows 7.
I think Microsoft has completely dropped the ball yet again in another huge marketing mistake.
As a student at the Naval War College if you're going after an enemy attacking their weakness is far more preferable to attack -- their strong point.
Now if Microsoft wants to compete with the iPhone would it make more sense to go straight -- them on AT&T.
Or attack one of their weakest points which is AT&T with their network and customer service issues.
Putting with -- seven on Verizon and sprint first would likely have resulted in some poaching of those dissatisfied customers.
And establish a beachhead.
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
Beachhead into I'm not installed user base of the largest network before the worst kept secret in the industry happens the Verizon iPhone seriously -- can all over again.
-- be wrong that's an interest in perspective it envisions is a war -- -- and obviously it.
Not that complicated it's not like this in real life. Isn't a good thing.
Anyway I'm gonna drop a new -- not all of -- morning for breakfast and I don't know.
Well until we were talking about. Windows phone seven being bigger worldwide not just in the US -- and tried to -- the world -- market all once but it would make sense for them to try to you know.
Put the shift in where -- Guinness we ScanSoft this and that would be the place to do it cheer him.
Anyway our right.
Let us we -- that's it.
That's gonna do it people -- wrap this thing after a community with so do -- well if you wanna check out more information about the show or any of other shows you can visit her website BO well dot cnet.com.
Can send us an email to you ask this question be a part of the showbuzz at cnet.com.
Or leave us a -- 806162638. And that is -- that's a --
I -- tomorrow special -- that that's right John O'Donnell also from New York will be here with us in the studio so he'll be in the studio and Molly will be back.
We today yes correct.
And on CN Kodiak right.
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