Zen Vision M reviews!

All the reviews are very fair too both sides. Whether the Zen is a copy or not(I believe not), it sure seems like an improved copy.

well, i'm sure that it uses the same clear plastic as the ipod, but from the pictures it seems that the layer is thinner so that scratches won't show up as much. However, it won't be as shiny tho. Just think of a 4G ipod.

I believe you still will get scraches, but not as bad as the G5/nano. The insides of your pocket aren't going to scratch it as bad as the ipod.

it IS cnet asia though. Keep in mind that these are actually editors from asia that use these players and rate them. Also, i think ur being a little bit paranoid about the listed pros, they have them in the specs and i don't think they had room to fit in the review. besides, nobody lists the bricks game for ipods as a pro, you have to be realistic. Also, i think the is based on today's standards and not the standards at the time when ipod video came out. I'm sure they'd be tied if they came out at the same time. Also, price is taken into account for cnet reviews too.
Oh, do they really say that ipod video is too thin? I've messed around with it and i think it's awesome, but then again i do have relatively small hands and i like thin.

''it IS cnet asia though. Keep in mind that these are actually editors from asia that use these players and rate them.''

Why does it matter that these are Asian editors?

''Also, i think ur being a little bit paranoid about the listed pros, they have them in the specs and i don't think they had room to fit in the review.''

CNet lists them as a pro for almost every other player that has them. And have you seen how much room they use for the iPod's pros and cons? Over twice as much as what's here.

''besides, nobody lists the bricks game for ipods as a pro, you have to be realistic.''

I think people care more about an FM tuner and voice recorder than the iPod's crappy brick game.

''Also, i think the is based on today's standards and not the standards at the time when ipod video came out. I'm sure they'd be tied if they came out at the same time.''

The iPod came out just a few months ago, and the Vision M is the first competitor to it. I don't think today's standards have changed much, not to mention this is better than the iPod in seemingly every way except the subjective design.

''Also, price is taken into account for cnet reviews too. ''

If you're talking about the Vision M costing $30 more than the iPod, this is probably because you get an AC adapter with it. With the iPod, you must buy it seperately, so they're actually the same price.

''Oh, do they really say that ipod video is too thin? I've messed around with it and i think it's awesome, but then again i do have relatively small hands and i like thin.''

I agree here; I don't know what CNet's complaining about.

look, i don't want another arguement here, but i think ur overreacting in the wrong way.
"CNet lists them as a pro for almost every other player that has them. And have you seen how much room they use for the iPod's pros and cons? Over twice as much as what's here."
well, this is another of Creative's players and since Creative DOES have a huge fan base in asia, all of the asia users definately know that it includes all those features.

"I think people care more about an FM tuner and voice recorder than the iPod's crappy brick game."

haha, well call me crazy but i disagree on that one... anyway, I didn't mean it that way, i meant that the fm tuner is well established in all creative players like the brick game is in ipods.


"The iPod came out just a few months ago, and the Vision M is the first competitor to it. I don't think today's standards have changed much, not to mention this is better than the iPod in seemingly every way except the subjective design."

Well, the ipod came out first which means that they'll compare everything to IT. this gives the ipod huge pts for innovation. Also, i looked at the review again and the Zen scored a 6 in design, so that's mostly why.

And, actually you've got me on the price, ac adapters are pretty nice when on the go. But, i'm afraid that they'll have to get rid of it when it comes to the States just to make it 300 in order to compete w/ the ipod. Plus, u kno us americans, we hate complex numbers

Makes sense, I guess. I agree, but I still wish they gave it an 8.3... ah well.

And who's with me in saying that Creative should have a clickable touch pad? Instead of using the touch-sensitivity to make selections in the menus (which I find very frustrating), you would just click it like the iPod's clickwheel. Of course, I guess they've got enough people calling it an iPod ripoff for its looks...

I think the Zen Vision M does look like an iPod rip-off (some people will argue that, but I and many others think it does), and what you say is entirely true.

Hopeful you guys realize that the Zen Vision M was put into production way before the announcement of the ipod G5. It is impossible that creative copied it.

It has been released in Signapore for awhile now.

...but does the general public know that?

i don't think that the Vision M is a "rip-off" of the ipod video, but more of a player that has heavily borrowed style from the ipod 4G. Creative just thot that they could one-up apple in the looks department by adding a bigger screen, but apple rolled out the 5G while they were still developing.

Might have been, but lets remember the apple "heavily borrowed" from creative's patented organization hierarchy/interface.

I don't believe there is a great similarity between the Zen Vision and the ipod G4. The fact is, if you are building a vertical player, they are going to look similarily.

Zen micro is a vertical player but no one ever made referance to it looking like the mini or any other ipod for that matter. Why is that? Because it doesn't resemble an ipod at all. The micro is a unique player as well as the sleek and neeon. This is blantant knock of of the 4G ipod. The mass public that mostly only know the ipod will see this and scream ''fake ipod''

Also the interface the zen claims as it's own has been used by many different applications. Including apple software long before mp3 players were thought of. Dividing things into folders and using a process of elimination is nothing new that creative thought of. They were just the first to use it on mp3 players.

The Vision M "fake ipod" cost more than the actual 5G with the same storage. I don't want to hear from anyone about that ridiculous 64kbs wma. Rhapsody is 160 standard and Napster is 128 standard. You actually end up in some cases with less storage. So now all it really has over the ipod is radio, voice recoder, 2 hours more of video. It's not enough. I'm really mad at creative! I was looking forward to a great mp3 war.

The Vision M costs $30 more than the iPod, but that's because it comes with an AC adapter, whereas you must purchase one for $30 for the iPod. And for most people, the AC adapter is a necessity. So technically, they're the same price.

And by the way, the Vision's screen is MUCH better than the iPod's (5 times the colors...need I say more?), it supports far more video codecs (so you can actually put your own movies on it), it will more than likely have the typical Creative-quality (read: excellent) sound, and probably a less scratch-prone body.

"And by the way, the Vision's screen is MUCH better than the iPod's (5 times the colors...need I say more?), it supports far more video codecs (so you can actually put your own movies on it), it will more than likely have the typical Creative-quality (read: excellent) sound, and probably a less scratch-prone body."
Yup, but being seen to the general public as a bulkier, more expensive ipod rip-off, it won't sell well despite all of the extras.

"Yup, but being seen to the general public as a bulkier, more expensive ipod rip-off, it won't sell well despite all of the extras."

I'm not saying the Vision M will sell better than the iPod, I'm saying it's a better overall DAP.

i wasn't saying that the ipod was better than the Vision M, but keep in mind that a player that has more features makes it the better. Some people preferr the ipod's look and controls to the plethora of functions found in the Vision.

Yes people like you and I know that. All my opinions have been based on what the general public will see. Most people don't deal with a bunch of different codecs. Just like people don't have music in a bunch of different formats. So those extra ones won't matter. The majority of people will be getting their video from itunes or whatever online movie store pops up next. Creatives player look cheap. Go into the store and check out the ipod with it's high gloss finish compare it to the creatives hard plastic look. It looks plain cheap. I was in the store with my sister and I had to convince her that creative actually does make a good player. Her response was "but it looks so cheap". The screen is better but no one will really get to know that. Creative has crippled itself.

You said:
"So now all it really has over the ipod is radio, voice recoder, 2 hours more of video."

This is what I was replying to, not how well it will do in sales. Yes, the design will probably keep it from threatening the iPod, but it has much more than just a radio, voice recorder, and better video battery life.

look, i'm not saying that the new VisionM is a totally ripoff of the ipod, but i'm just stating that the general concensus is that it does borrow from the ipod's style. Just look at engadget, iLoung, and even Cnet's reviews. The look is certainly not enough for a court battle, but you have to admit that there was some influence in design here.
And about the patent, it shouldn't even be creative's patent. There was software that did the same thing way before creative got on the market. And also, notice that Creative has only threatened to sue apple over the use of it and not anyother dap companies. Clearly, creative only brought the patent to the public's attention in order to publisize itself and take a good whack at apple's credibility.
So, yeah... the mp3 player market is quite brutal.

Seems like your guys arguments is that ipod's strength is people's ignorance...


*TV out screen resolution(twice the resolution)
*Colors of the screen 262k compared to 65k.
*video playback time
*codec support(WMV9/DivX/VidX/MPEG4)
*extra features: FM, recording, etc.
*picture viewing - zoom and pan
*custom equalizer
*Customizable Themes/Backgrounds/shortcuts
*Doesn't scratch like the ipod(as bad)
*Superior sound quality(97db)
*Same battery life for audio, twice as much for video
*Support for the WMA, DRM stores

I'm saying people won't give the creative the chance it deserves. It is complete ignorance for them not too. Don't take my words to mean that ignorance is ipod's strenght though. A good amount of things on your list don't matter to most people except the nerds. Ipod has many strenghts
- Combined with itunes it's the simplest to use
- Thin and lighter weight
- Click wheel
- Pre set equalizers
- Wide amount of assersories
- Supported by itunes music store. Where you can buy TV shows for cheaper than in the stores. That easily synces with your player.

The public doesn't care about the specs. Go out in the street and ask the average person what a video codec is. They will not know. Apple's biggest feature is that they limit your options and they make the average joe have to think less. So yea actually apples strenght does lie in peoples ignorance.

This isn't a competition on who has the most stuff and who makes the better player. The competition is who can make what people people what. What do they want. Simplicity in a nice package. They don't want to think about thier technology the way we do. It just has to work. So apple is the better company. This is the reason why creative is so far behind.

Creative came out with their mp3 player line far before the ipods came out. Even thought they were more like a hard drive with a small screen.

"Seems like your guys arguments is that ipod's strength is people's ignorance..."
nope, the ipod's strength is having a streamlined system that makes mp3 easy to use for the average teen. Creative makes players that sell to audiophiles who want extra features, to put it bluntly.
"Creative came out with their mp3 player line far before the ipods came out. Even thought they were more like a hard drive with a small screen."
Yup, but it was the ipod that brought mp3 players to the public and turned the mp3 market into wat it is today.

Creative came first. Apple sells more.