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Your invitation to the celebration

by drpruner / April 8, 2006 4:25 AM PDT

of the date on which Jesus Christ died. We warmly invite you to join us in observing the Memorial of Jesus' death. This year the date for the observance is Wednesday, April 12, after local sundown. You may attend at the Kingdom Hall nearest to your home. Please check there for the exact time and place.
Why is this the most important date in history? First, Jesus' faithfulness until death proved that a human could maintain integrity to God. Job 1; 2
It also provided an opportunity for some from mankind to become corulers with him in heaven. Luke 12:32; Daniel 7:14,27
Moreover, it opened the way for many more to enjoy everlasting life in an earthly paradise. John 10:16, Psalm 37:29
Finally, it's a command from Jesus to ''keep doing this,'' to all who would call him their leader. Luke 22:19

Please bring your bibles, as a brief talk will give scriptural backing for these and other important topics.
No collection is ever taken at our meetings.

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Hmmm.....tomorrow is Palm Sunday
by John Robie / April 8, 2006 5:09 AM PDT

and then I'll be going to Mass for Easter next Sunday.

Thanks for the invitation.

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You are likewise invited
by Cindi Haynes / April 8, 2006 7:33 AM PDT

To the celebration on Sunday, April 16th at any Southern Baptist church, when we observe the miracle and basis of our faith, the resurrection of Jesus Christ!

Come at sunup, a yummy breakfast will be served, no charge. Happy

Cindi

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Thank you for the kind offer.
by drpruner / April 10, 2006 9:16 PM PDT

However, the biblical command is to observe the one event; no mention of what to do about the other.

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(NT) (NT) Where is this command?
by Kiddpeat / April 10, 2006 9:17 PM PDT
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(1) Go to
by drpruner / April 11, 2006 4:09 AM PDT
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Since I'm not a Bibliophile ...
by Evie / April 11, 2006 4:16 AM PDT
In reply to: (1) Go to

... and you are so well versed, do you think you could provide me with a few links?

Evie Happy

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Sorry, I checked the King James and the Greek. There is
by Kiddpeat / April 11, 2006 4:29 AM PDT
In reply to: (1) Go to

no mention of Easter or April 12. All Christian churches do, of course, celebrate communion to remember the Lord Jesus' death which is the means by which we obtain Eternal Life when we place our faith in Jesus. Christian churches usually celebrate this at least once a month.

Oh well, now I know. Thanks for the info. Wink

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Easy to find, if one actually looks:
by drpruner / April 12, 2006 1:41 AM PDT

''And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.'' Acts 12:4, KJV

''So when he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him, intending to bring him before the people after Passover.'' Same, NKJV

Both from blueletterbible.org, with a couple of clicks.

''April 12th''? ''the Greek''? Passover was a lunar calendar observance, so it moves around on the Gregorian. It was a mid-month observance of an event on which the Jews packed up and left Egypt in the middle of the night - no street lamps, no LED flashlights, nothing but Jehovah's full moon to light the way. Take a look outside tonight. The Nisan 14 of Moses' day is what's being commemorated; April 12th this year.

''However, early Christians did not hold an annual feast to celebrate a Christianized version of the Jewish Passover. The Abingdon Dictionary of Living Religions states regarding Easter: ''The primitive observance was actually the anniversary (14 Nisan, according to the Jewish lunar calendar) of Jesus' crucifixion.''
The Bible tells us that on the evening before his death, Jesus met with his disciples in a large room to observe the Jewish Passover. (Mark 14:12-16) It was after this, his last Passover, that Jesus instituted what is known as the Lord's Evening Meal. Then he commanded his disciples: ''Keep doing this in remembrance of me.''-Luke 22:19.
This Lord's Evening Meal, which was to be celebrated once a year, was in commemoration of Jesus' death. The apostle Paul said regarding this anniversary: ''As often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord.''-1 Corinthians 11:25, 26.'' Awake magazine of 4/8/1992.

And:
''The name Easter, used in many lands, is not found in the Bible [except as aforementioned]. The book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us that ''the holiday is named after the pagan Goddess of the Dawn and of Spring, Eostre.'' And who was this goddess? ''Eostre it was who, according to the legend, opened the portals of Valhalla to receive Baldur, called the White God, because of his purity and also the Sun God, because his brow supplied light to mankind,'' answers The American Book of Days. It adds: ''There is no doubt that the Church in its early days adopted the old pagan customs and gave a Christian meaning to them. As the festival of Eostre was in celebration of the renewal of life in the spring it was easy to make it a celebration of the resurrection from the dead of Jesus, whose gospel they preached.'' ... Nowhere in Scripture do we find mention of these things, nor is there any evidence that the early disciples of Jesus gave them any credence. In fact, the apostle Peter tells us to ''form a longing for the unadulterated milk belonging to the word, that through it [we] may grow to salvation.'' (1 Peter 2:2) So why did the churches of Christendom adopt such obviously pagan symbols into their beliefs and practices?'' Watchtower 4/1/96

Have you noticed how often you have to turn to Jehovah's Witnesses for accurate knowledge (Gk. epignosis) of your own bible? So this is now another topic adequately answered and explained; no need for me to go further.

''and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, 'By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them.'''

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So, the Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the inspiration
by Kiddpeat / April 12, 2006 1:40 PM PDT

of the King James Version of the Bible? Interesting. I knew some extreme fundamentalists held that position, but I didn't know that the JWs do. Most Christians do not hold that view. They believe the Bible was inspired in the original language, but not in any translation of the original text.

My mistake, I didn't see that you were referring to Acts 12:4 when you described a command from Jesus. BTW, the Greek uses the word 'Pascha' which means Passover, and it was during the Passover feast that Jesus instructed the disciples on communion.

Since Jesus gave no command to observe communion at any particular time, and Paul simply said 'whenever' you do this, there is no Biblical prescription to perform this ceremony at any particular time. It is usually observed in Christian churches on Good Friday since that is when Jesus celebrated it. To my knowledge, there is no consideration given to the phases of the Moon. Further, communion is usually not celebrated on Easter day. It would be out of place there, and that is a day on which many nonbelievers attend church. Thus, to celebrate it on that day would be to put people at risk of violating this command from Paul;

1 Cor 11:27-30

27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. NIV

I should think the Jehovah's Witnesses should be a little nervous about participating since they reject the Lord Jesus, and consider Him to be simply Jesus who used to be Micheal the Archangel.

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There is a lunar connection
by Roger NC / April 12, 2006 4:35 PM PDT
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Older churches use the phrase
by drpruner / April 19, 2006 9:08 AM PDT

''moveable feast'' to describe such. The Ancients used what scholars call ''farmer's (or shepherd's) astronomy to calculate everything. Works just fine; no need for atomic clocks, unless you're setting up a ballistic missile system. Happy An "intercalary month" takes care of the lunar/solar differences.
The trick for Passover or our Memorial is in spotting the new moon, which in principle is invisible. There are differences of opinion even among Jews and Muslims, so usually our celebration is the same as the beginning of Orthodox Passover, but not always. Easter is a different animal, so Good Friday is sometimes a week or so away from the Memorial.

As to the nuts and bolts, we have a worldwide organization headquartered in NY State which does the calculating for me, and I'm satisified with that arrangement. The important thing is to observe the anniversary. (As your wife would say. Happy )

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p.s. You used the word command ...
by Evie / April 11, 2006 4:55 AM PDT
In reply to: (1) Go to
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... and you complained about lacking a link,
by drpruner / April 12, 2006 1:15 AM PDT

which I provided, which you chose not to use.

http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6130-0.html?forumID=50&threadID=168486&messageID=1864308

Bibliophile, from the Greek lover of books, or in this case, lover of the bible. A revealing response on your part, and a common one these days: 'I like my religion, and claim to be Godly, but I don't know the bible, and am not interested in looking into it myself. When someone else encourages me to look into it I won't, if I don't find confirmation for the beliefs I already have.'

"and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, 'By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them.'" Mt 13:14,15

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When you get backed into a corner you turn to insults
by Evie / April 12, 2006 11:58 AM PDT

Not very Godly of you!

I don't claim to be Godly, or particularly religious. I believe in Jesus Christ as Savior and pretty much that living by the 10 Commandments puts me in good stay with Him. That my relationship with God doesn't meet your standards is of no concern to me.

Pretty arrogant of you to assert that I won't look into something in the Bible when encouraged to. Most of my serious Bible reading has come when discussions in SE has prompted me to read. The Bible is not something that can be ''multitasked'' as most of my internet reading is, however, so if I ask for links so as not to waste time searching, it would be the thoughtful thing for you to provide them.

After the discussion on transfusions I spent far more time than necessary had you not played the circular games in that thread. Your interpretations of what is said in the various passages you quoted just didn't jibe or support your position.

IAC, your ''invitation'' contained nothing about some ''biblical command is to observe the one event''. Closest I come is your interpretation of Luke 22:19 that ''it's a command from Jesus to ''keep doing this,'' to all who would call him their leader.''

Luke 22:19 from KJV:
''And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.''

Sorry, nothing about what exact day in the process of his death to do the remembrance on. Most Christian faiths do this routinely thoughout the year. As with transfusions, a study of the quotations fails to substantiate your claim.

I used the wrong word in Bibliophile, rather should have said Biblical scholar. But I suspect you realized that but took a jab at insult anyway. Sad

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But Evie, don't you know.........
by Glenda / April 12, 2006 12:19 PM PDT

ALL The JW's are persecuted!!!

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From bbc.co.uk, 23 December, 2003,
by drpruner / April 21, 2006 7:20 AM PDT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3343635.stm
US condemns Eritrea over religion

From bbc.co.uk, 17 September, 2004,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3663654.stm
Religious persecution in Eritrea
(There are some revealing reader comments at the end of this story)

Now, the latter-day Niemollers check in:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4924252.stm
Eritrea targeting 'permitted' churches

We believe the bible prophesies this sort of thing spreading soon to all religions by all governments. But since that information comes from Jehovah's Witnesses, you may have nothing to worry about.
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Doug, It may be news to you, but
by Glenda / April 21, 2006 8:52 AM PDT

Christians have been persecuted for ever!

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Really?
by Evie / April 21, 2006 9:19 AM PDT
Devil
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Nah!!! I was just
by Glenda / April 21, 2006 9:37 AM PDT
In reply to: Really?

trying to make Doug feel less lonely Devil

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(NT) (NT) Well, maybe not FOREVER. Maybe 2,000 years.
by Kiddpeat / April 21, 2006 5:05 PM PDT
In reply to: Really?
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You're right, of course.
by drpruner / April 25, 2006 4:52 AM PDT

In fact, in both world wars, Christians were mobbed, assassinated, jailed, fired from jobs - all because of their bible-based neutrality and refusal to kill their fellow men. In the US and Canada.

OTOH you Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Mormons, Jews and most other mainstream religionists lined up in a hurry to join and kill ... your fellow mainstream religionists.

Do you remember your past?

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WOW!!!
by Glenda / April 25, 2006 4:55 AM PDT

Now because our fellow Christians were willing to fight to end tyranny they were wrong??? OK Doug, whatever

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Doug
by Glenda / April 25, 2006 5:38 AM PDT

you believe what ever you want, I will do the same:) As far as a different opinion, it wasn't, same author same opinion.

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An interesting mauling of the truth in your
by Steven Haninger / April 25, 2006 6:22 AM PDT

revision of history since most all wars have been about power, greed or claims to territory and, as far as I can tell, preludes to (at least recent) war tend to periods of agonizing about engaging in them rather than rushing to kill, as you called them, ''... fellow mainstream religionists''. Shame on you. Sad

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Hmmmmm, 'Christians were mobbed, assassinated, jailed.....
by Kiddpeat / April 25, 2006 6:46 AM PDT

OTOH you Baptists, Methodists, Catholics.........'

So, I guess in the Watchtower world, the only 'Christians' are Jehovah's Witnesses?

It's interesting how many cults claim that only THEY are the true Christians, and that the real Christian church is not Christian at all.

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(NT) (NT) Everything I cited is historical fact.
by drpruner / May 1, 2006 3:21 AM PDT
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Are you saying
by Diana Forum moderator / May 1, 2006 8:24 PM PDT

Christian = JVs and all others are not Christians?

Diana

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Diana, my religious information,
by drpruner / May 10, 2006 11:03 AM PDT

including definitions, comes from the bible.
John 13:34,35* is part of the famous ''last supper'' discourse; seems to me to eliminate the soldiers of the last two WW (ETO) from consideration. Majority of whom were members of mainstream groups identified with the bible. (Would include religious Jews, of course.) Jesus said 'as I have loved you,' then died for them and other Christians. He didn't kill anyone for them, no matter what his government wanted him to do.

1 John 3 is, I believe, detailed instructions from a mature Christian (v.7) to us with attitudes and behavior expected if we are to consider ourselves in step with him. The language is blunt, restrictive, non-PC. I believe it's also true. Do you find your religion in there, based on its history and practices? If so, it's ''Christian.'' If not ...

* for reference, KJV:
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."
Cf. Lu 9:54 ~

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Steven H., I don't see anything but truth
by drpruner / May 10, 2006 11:39 AM PDT

in my post, although it's an unpopular truth, and thus often ignored by the churches.

Our bible-based belief happens to be that most wars- and virtually all of the recent ones- are religion-based. But my post referred to this: Any war worthy of the title in Europe, going back as far as Alfred the Great (per Churchill), has had mainstream religious persons - cross-wearers - on both sides at the same time. Specifically: Roosevelt's troops were Lutherans and Catholics pulling triggers on Hitler's Lutherans and Catholics. That's ''Christian'' behavior?! These men proved (to borrow from the truth in your post) that financial and nationalistic considerations of the world trump that brand of Christianity every time.

Compare Jesus, praying to Jehovah on behalf of Christians at John 17:
v.9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
v.14-16 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

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