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General discussion

Your fired

Sep 23, 2017 10:36AM PDT

Check the NFL.
If you don't honor the flag 'your fired'.
This from the guy that did not think enough of the flag to serve.
Do as I say not as I do.

Discussion is locked

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Dr Johnson said,
Sep 29, 2017 12:12PM PDT

"An excess of patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Note the word which is often omitted in the popular version of the quote.

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"Draft Dodger" Trump????
Sep 27, 2017 3:15AM PDT

Your 'grudge' bias is showing up, Bob.....I thought you said you 'ignored' stuff rather than let it bother you. I figured it would begin to come out sooner rather than later.

How do you feel about other Presidents who didn't serve in the military in any capacity.....like Bill Clinton (who actually WAS a draft dodger) and BO (no draft during his time of eligibility but never even considered enlisting and has shown complete contempt for the military during his time in public office)?

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Re;Draft Dodger" Trump????
Sep 27, 2017 8:12AM PDT

Trump spent some number of years hiding in a school.

Then he develops a medical condition that just happens to go away after the draft ends.

Then he see's something on the tube that he does not like so now he wants to start waving the flag.

Trump is no more a patriot than my neighbors dog he's doing this flag waving for political points.

I don't care if a pol served just don't suddenly become a patriot to push some agenda.

I said I ignored players making personal statements at a game as long as it does not interfere with the game.
That's an issue for the league to address.

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Considering that the NFL
Sep 28, 2017 10:52AM PDT

actually HAS a rule on its books that the players HAVE to stand for the National Anthem down to the details of HOW they have to stand (helmet in their left hand down at their side, right hand over their heart, facing the flag, and no talking), proves that the NFL is ONLY enforcing the rules it WISHES to enforce....much like BO did with regard to existing LAWS. IF they want to ignore one of their own rules, they need to CHANGE the rule book, Bob...just like IF Dems don't like the laws on the books, they need to have CONGRESS change them if they are Federal laws before they can ignore/defy them without consequences coming their way.

As for Trump not being a patriot and is only flag waving now, you obviously don't know anything about his own personal history with regard to the flag, country, and our military/police that goes back tens of years. Do your homework and look it up before you continue to pass judgment over your mistaken convictions/grudges.

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Yes, indeed. I wondered about that when
Sep 29, 2017 11:57AM PDT

I read about the player who did his stretches during the anthem. That is bad behavior by just the standard of plain rudeness. And protected by the Constitution.

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there's another offender here
Sep 29, 2017 5:29PM PDT

,...and that's the media. They could completely keep the cameras off such activities, pointed at the flag perhaps, or center field, and also refuse on live TV to even acknowledge such activity. Instead, they encourage it.

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Aha!
Sep 29, 2017 12:10PM PDT

So you're the twin with the Toni!

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"If it does not interfere with the game I just ignore it."
Sep 25, 2017 2:22PM PDT

And that passive "who cares' attitude is exactly why this country went into such a decline....liberalism and 'progressivism' and 'pc correctness' has proven to be destructive as hell to the future of this country and people are finally ticked off enough that they are fighting back.

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RE:many players have never even been punished by that same
Sep 26, 2017 3:17AM PDT
many players have never even been punished by that same NFL commissioner when they have actually committed CRIMES, including MURDER.

Have these players that committed CRIMES/MURDER been tried, found guilty, sentenced and served their time/punishment?

When did it become the responsibility of the NFL to punish individuals that broke Criminal Laws?
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Some were punished by the legal system,
Sep 26, 2017 4:11AM PDT

most were not.........and very few were ever punished by the NFL for their actions.

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Re:very few were ever punished by the NFL for their actions.
Sep 26, 2017 7:53AM PDT

AND why should they be?

CRIMES AND MURDER?

NFL conducts Criminal/Murder trials?

IF they WEREN'T charged AND found guilty...who made the NFL judge and jury?

IF they were charged found guilty and served their punishment....It wasn't the NFL that held the trial and doled out the punishment.

You think the NFL should be like the military....

What you do in the "civilian part" of your life affects the "military part" of your life?

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Re: civilian vs. military part
Sep 26, 2017 8:20AM PDT

If you're transgender and had a certain operation in your civilian life, it seems to influence your military career.

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Transgenders who have
Sep 26, 2017 10:47AM PDT

ALREADY had their surgeries and can prove they are fit to serve, I have no problem with. IF they are just now coming out that they are transgender like the traitor did AFTER he was arrested and convicted, the TAXPAYERS have to foot the bill for not only their surgeries, but medications ahead of surgery, hormones for the rest of their lives, psychological therapies, and all that time off from real active duty to take care of these issues, which means they aren't FIT to serve during that entire time.....and all of sudden, after years of that garbage, they are now eligible to LEAVE the military because they 'served' their enlistment time period.

Oh, freaking goodie............Yes....it SHOULD influence their military 'career' because they, in effect, never HAD ONE. They are more concerned with getting another snowflake free ride.

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For those interested in current affairs.
Sep 24, 2017 5:00AM PDT
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37208404
Yes, it's written by the guys who bombarded Fort McHenry, but they say they've repented and turned themselves around.
In the lead article the President equated disrespect for flag and country. That's not a new idea; see Dan ch. 3 in your local Bible.
Many of us were in the US military before becoming Christians and therefore had formal training in flag etiquette. The details of how each of us handles pledges and such are conscience matters. We do want Jehovah to observe us NOT saying or doing anything that would make him think we weren't sure of just where our allegiance is, anyway. [Mt 6:9,10]
When we go door-to-door teaching the Bible we observe many flags displayed improperly. Sometimes by the same ones who insist we aren't patriotic. Enough. For them.
The Brits are correct: The Code says these things ARE illegal by Federal law [the US Code], AND there is no penalty for malefactoring. So it's easy for those who treat God's laws the same way ['Do as I say but not as I do'] to ignore the instructions of mere men.
In 1942 US Witnesses were jailed and victims of mob action after a Supreme Court ruling that our children could be expelled from school for not saluting and pledging. Less than two years later the same Court reversed itself. All during wartime. The 1942 ruling said in part that the school's actions were constitutional because they were in the interest of "national unity". Hard to argue with that. The reversal observed that those who need to be forced to declare their 'love of country' aren't the ones you want to find next to you in a foxhole. Hard to argue with that.
Say, what's the percentage turnout of registered voters these days?
You can find more in ch. 14 of this book, which we're currently studying each week.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/gods-kingdom/ [There will be at least one copy available for download because Toni never goes there.]
It mentions also that the 43/44 decision extended the rights of all American citizens. For the time being.
All are welcome. No collections are ever taken.
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For those interested in current events.
Sep 24, 2017 9:25AM PDT
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37208404
Yes, it's written by the guys who bombarded Fort McHenry, but they say they've repented and turned themselves around.
In the lead article the President equated disrespect for flag and country. That's not a new idea; see Dan ch. 3 in your local Bible.
Many of us were in the US military before becoming Christians and therefore had formal training in flag etiquette. The details of how each of us handles pledges and such are conscience matters. We do want Jehovah to observe us NOT saying or doing anything that would make him think we weren't sure of just where our allegiance is, anyway. [Mt 6:9,10]
When we go door-to-door teaching the Bible we observe many flags displayed improperly. Sometimes by the same ones who insist we aren't patriotic. Enough. For them.
The Brits are correct: The Code says these things ARE illegal by Federal law [the US Code], AND there is no penalty for malefactoring. So it's easy for those who treat God's laws the same way ['Do as I say but not as I do'] to ignore the instructions of mere men.
In 1942 US Witnesses were jailed and victims of mob action after a Supreme Court ruling that our children could be expelled from school for not saluting and pledging. Less than two years later the same Court reversed itself. All during wartime. The 1942 ruling said in part that the school's actions were constitutional because they were in the interest of "national unity". Hard to argue with that. The reversal observed that those who need to be forced to declare their 'love of country' aren't the ones you want to find next to you in a foxhole. Hard to argue with that.
Say, what's the percentage turnout of registered voters these days?
You can find more in ch. 14 of this book, which we're currently studying each week.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/gods-kingdom/ [There will be at least one copy available for download because Toni never goes there.]
It mentions also that the 43/44 decision extended the rights of all American citizens. For the time being.
All are welcome. No collections are ever taken.
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there's a neutral ground
Sep 28, 2017 8:05AM PDT

between showing respect and showing disrespect. When you and I both were in school, I assume for you too, every morning started with "The Lord's Prayer" and then pledge of allegiance. A Jewish boy in 3rd grade (in Texas) was not required to say the prayer. The name "Jesus" doesn't appear in the prayer, and any Jewish person should be able pray the same prayer, just as Jesus the Jew also did and taught to his disciples. Now this boy didn't sit down while we were standing, he just stood quietly until it was over and then sat with the rest of us. No problem. Colin and other could do the same, if not for the flag, then out of consideration for others, their fans, their team, their fellow citizens. Instead, he chose not to just stand there, but to make a total derrière out of himself. He was not content to stop there, but also to encourage others to do the same. There's the difference.

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The prayer is a prayer, to a god. In a publicly supported
Sep 29, 2017 12:02PM PDT

classroom.
“The name "Jesus" doesn't appear in the prayer”, nor does Jehovah, who we know from scripture is Jesus’ father, and ours. But note the context of Mt 9: Formal, public displays of prayer outside of one’s religious assemblies are excluded. Two questions to ask that clear up much of the fuzzy thinking on this matter: What flag did Jesus salute? What national allegiance did he proclaim?
Here’s one of the tools we use to raise our children. Note the parallels between the “golden image” and any other national symbol; different materials, same purpose. Many nations have wording about their flag in their laws that appropriates religious language on worship.
https://tinyurl.com/Great-Teacher-book
“[Colin] was not content to stop there, but also to encourage others to do the same”. So? I’ve just given you materials, from your Bible, to encourage you to do the same, if you wish. It’s what we do. The Great Commission.
Is it too much to worry so much about inanimate symbols? Research the Nika Riots.

A couple more:
https://tinyurl.com/Gobitis-case
https://tinyurl.com/Pic-of-JP-Bill

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Wow, you have a "do not pray" JW command too?
Sep 29, 2017 5:24PM PDT

That's not even funny. I know we've been over the flag matter before, but just to remind you the Bible does endorse flags using words like "standard, ensign,....banner..." among other words. Just a google away you can find some.

Isaiah 13:2
"2Lift up a standard on the bare hill, Raise your voice to them, Wave the hand that they may enter the doors of the nobles. 3I have commanded My consecrated ones, I have even called My mighty warriors, My proudly exulting ones, To execute My anger."

Psalms 20
"May He grant you your heart's desire And fulfill all your counsel! 5We will sing for joy over your victory, And in the name of our God we will set up our banners. May the LORD fulfill all your petitions. "


Know what JEHOVAH NISSI means?

Do you actually read the bible, or just swallow JW error and regurgitate it to mislead others?

Uh, ever hear the bible phrase "Pray without ceasing"?

You like Old Testament terms. Remember the 12 tribes leaving Egypt? Remember this? "The children of Israel shall encamp, each man by his banner according to the insignias of their father's household, at a distance surrounding the Tent of Meeting shall they encamp."What did Moses have them carry before each one? Do you remember any public prayers there or later in temple by priests on behalf of the king and the people? Jesus, what did he do publicly just before he blessed the small amount of food, but ended up feeding 5,000 with it? As for Jesus, do you remember of what tribe he was from? What that tribe's banner was?

No the image of golden calf was an idol and it's clear to even early new bible students that there's a difference between that and approved ensigns, banners, standards, flags as related even at the same time in the scriptures......clear to all but those blinded by JW error being taught them.

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I asked two questions, designed to clear up fuzzy thinking
Oct 3, 2017 10:10AM PDT

on patriotism. You ignored those questions and stayed with the fuzzy. As usual.
Anyway, it was a nice 4th of July speech; your country is proud of you.
Ignoring the irrelevancies, ad hominem reasoning and half-truths, here are the questions to respond to, again:
What flag did Jesus salute? What national allegiance did he proclaim?
And the answers have much to do with the scripture you brushed off earlier, Ps 37:29. Here it is, from your favorite but mightily flawed KJV: "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever." Do you see the connection?
You didn't do the Nika research. Too bad. You would have met people like yourself.
Some organizations have used the motto, "For God and Country". Someday it will be 'God or country'. You'll be told to make that choice, on very short notice. We've already done that. It's ironic that you can find our answer on your US coinage.

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Matthew 15:22
Oct 3, 2017 10:51AM PDT

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

His allegiance was to the Jewish nation, as he clearly stated. As for the earth and where the saved will be, again, Jesus was clear on that point.

John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

1 Peter 1:4
and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you,

That's right, some place other than here on earth. Now, what happens to the earth?

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

If you hang around the earth after Jesus comes, you must plan on getting burned up.
Hopefully I will be at the new place. Will you?


Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.…

As for the word "forever" in the translation, it's just describes "a long time", not time without ending.

Isaiah 65:17
17"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind. "But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Isaiah 24:19
The earth is broken asunder, The earth is split through, The earth is shaken violently. The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.…

Time for you to embrace Jesus since both He and the Father "are one". Turn aside from the JW "Judaizing" errors.

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I'm amazed how accurate the reporting was 2,000 years ago.
Oct 3, 2017 11:29AM PDT

Some don't even believe what they see with their own eyes, hear with their own ears today.

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True
Oct 3, 2017 11:45AM PDT

Jesus in Matthew chapter 13

15 - For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’

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RE: For this people’s heart has grown callous;
Oct 3, 2017 12:12PM PDT

Others have "smartened up"?

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(NT) NT - Let's hope
Oct 3, 2017 12:27PM PDT
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Having "smarts"
Oct 3, 2017 1:15PM PDT

means you know stuff. But having wisdom means you know how to use your smarts.

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RE:having wisdom means you know how to use your smarts.
Oct 3, 2017 1:20PM PDT

"use your smarts" to YOUR advantage?

convert the heathen masses?

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Not at all where I was going
Oct 3, 2017 2:10PM PDT

and as one example:

One who is smart knows how to use safety and protective gear.
One who is wise, knows how to minimize the occasions where it's needed.

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James, my God, in your Bible, says otherwise.
Oct 6, 2017 10:31AM PDT

His purpose, from the beginning:
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Only sin, leading to death, could keep A & E from that, which is what happened. Did Jehovah have to change his purpose? That would make Satan more powerful.
"For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." So it seems not. In the meantime he had David write Ps 37, which Jesus was happy to quote at Mt 5:5. Not to mention this plain statement elsewhere: "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else." AND it's all finished with his signature, at least in a properly translated Bible: "I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images." ASV, 1901
'Good people go to heaven' - Yes, they do, for a particular task. Rev 5:9.10, which ties directly to Ps 37, to those with eyes to see.
'God will destroy the earth' - Why? is he angry with it, or with the ungodly men who were temporary residents of it?
"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: [Yet we still stand on that earth.]
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
Like many others, your errors come from your the misunderstandings imparted by your sound-bite teachers. You can change that, so your ignorance will no longer be willful. That counts, with Jehovah.

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LOL, I'll wave goodbye on that day...
Oct 6, 2017 11:29AM PDT

...If I remember, and see you standing on some hill somewhere, again, saying "THAT'S NOT what I was waiting for, I'll stay here on earth instead". Invest in some asbestos underwear! The Mormons might be selling some by then from their holy underwear shops.

John 14:1
Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.…

Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

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After further review...
Sep 25, 2017 8:56AM PDT

and since it's become little more than another opportunity to protest, perhaps the tradition of opening these public sporting events by raising the flag and playing the national anthem should be suspended for a time. From what I can find, the tradition began during WWI when the country was at war. Perhaps, today, few even care or fully participate other than going through the motion. For some, it may be just an annoying distraction that makes them put down their smart phones for a minute or two. Discontinuing the practice would eliminate this controversy but might cause enough people to shout loudly for its reinstatement. One never knows until they try but, it's been that said what one should do if their right hand causing them offense.