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Wow, isn't it great the way the Republicans treat the world and the

by IanC_OZ / March 31, 2004 4:47 PM PST

American people, to ensure their funding supporters' needs are far more important than your 1st Amendment rights.

Not bothering with a link, you must have read it all many times this year. At every stage where a 1st Amenmdment right interferes with the film industry, bought Senators and Representatives are running as fast as they can to pass legislation to lock up yet more American citizens, minimum 3 years for downloading a song, as, after all, the profits of Hollywood create far greater election funding than the rights of individuals.

The decision in Canada this week has the bribe buckets being primed from all directions.

Its disgusting. USA, OZ and Canada are supposed to be democracies, even if various SE members continually point out you are a rebublican dictatorship and calling USA a democracy is anathema. The power of big business to buy laws makes me want to puke.

Ian

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Re:Wow, isn't it great the way the Republicans treat the world and the

WOW is right. I hardly know what to say,Ian. Except living here sure beats living in Afghanistan

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There's an old saying

I forget who said it (Ben Franklin maybe? or Mark Twain?):

Democracy is the worst form of government there is......except for all the others.

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Re:There's an old saying
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / March 31, 2004 10:51 PM PST
In reply to: There's an old saying

Hi, Josh.

I usually hear that attributed to Thomas Jefferson.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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I usually see, Dave...
by J. Vega / April 1, 2004 7:59 AM PST

Dave, I usually see it atributed to Winston Churchill.

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I first read it J., in a book by RAH. (nt)
by IanC_OZ / April 1, 2004 9:19 AM PST
In reply to: I usually see, Dave...

,

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Something I find perplexing Josh
by SteveGargini / April 1, 2004 2:29 PM PST
In reply to: There's an old saying

If we associate the names:
Democrat - Democracy
Republican - ?
Someone once told me on here that the voting rules were different.
It has always been fairly evident that beliefs differ quite a bit too.
So what is the ? in your opinion?

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Re:Something I find perplexing Josh
by Josh K / April 1, 2004 10:07 PM PST

Republican = republic

The pledge of allegiance, which American schoolchildren recite each morning, goes:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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Re:Re:Something I find perplexing Josh
by SteveGargini / April 2, 2004 4:04 AM PST

Thanks Josh.
This has probably been said a thousand times before, but doesn't the pledge equally apply to Democrats, and if not which part wouldn't apply to them.
Putting it another way, if another country attempted to invade America, wouldn't the democrats be prepared to lay their life down for their country.
If the answer to that was yes, they would be prepared, then they must view America as a republic.
So many things are grey between the democrats and republicans it seems.

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Re: Something I find perplexing Josh
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / April 2, 2004 12:34 PM PST

Hi, Steve.

>>if another country attempted to invade America, wouldn't the democrats be prepared to lay their life down for their country.<<
Indubitably, though many Republicans won't admit it. The "old conservative movement" (pre-Ronald Reagan) had as one of their major slogans "this is a Republic, not a democracy; let's keep it that way." That may be why Republicnas unashamedly use dirty tricks to try to prevent those in the lower socio-economic classes from voting, because they don't think "those folks" deserve to vote anyway. So you have "poll watchers" trying to intimidate voters, roadblocks set up near voting preciincts in minority neighborhoods (that happened in Florida in 2000 -- the official excuse was that they were "running random driver's license tests," though no such "random" stops were made in primarily Republican areas). Another favorite is to send trucks around minority neighborhoods around mid-day on election day blasting the message "dont forget to vote tomorrow, election day!" When I (and some friends) angrily confronted the driver of one such truck at a stoplight (this was back East, where it was unlikely he'd pull out a gun and shoot us), he argued with a straight face "anyone dumb enough to be fooled doesn't deserve a vote in the first place."

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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I am sorry if those sort of things happened Dave
by SteveGargini / April 2, 2004 3:40 PM PST

It doesn't smack me as very fair, but it's more human nature than a fault in the political process.

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Re: I am sorry if those sort of things happened Dave

Hi, Steve.

I disagree about whether it's "just human nature." If we were talking about kids vandalizing signs, that would be one thing. But the Republican Party continually tries to block efforts to make it easy to vote -- for example, the "motor voter" bill, that required most state agencies (drivers' license bureaus, unemployment offices, etc). to be places where someone can register to vote (over here, you have to register before you can vote, and the cutoff is often as much as a month before the actual election day). Republicans preferred the old system, where you had to appear (in person) at the county courthouse. This posed a big problem in many areas where the single county courthouse is located well away from the poorer areas, whose residents didn't often have a car and couldn't afford to take time off from work to make it to the courthouse during working hours. When the Founding Fathers set up the country, only wealthy landolders could vote -- universal suffrage wasn't the law. It is now, but most Republicans still lament the change, though for political reasons they'll rarely admiti it in public. And thus they feel no sense of shame in using tricks to try to deny the vote to those who they feel don't deserve it anyway.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Something I find perplexing Josh
by C1ay / April 2, 2004 1:07 PM PST

Don't let the terms confuse you. The U.S. is a democratic republic. As a republic the people are represented by representatives chosen with a democratic process. The pledge applies to everyone that pledges allegiance to our flag and our republic regardless of their political ideology. Our form of government, democratic republic, has nothing to do with an individual being a democrat, a republican, a libertarian, etc.. It does not represent the individuals of any one ideology any more than any other, they are all presented the same.

As an aside, you might enjoy reading Federalist No. 39 for some insight into the reasoning and intent or forefathers had in the selection of our government structure. All of the Federalist Papers are a good read in our history. If only more people would read them.

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Thanks Clay - They will be an interesting read
by SteveGargini / April 2, 2004 3:28 PM PST

Our political process developed from a different stand point. The monarch once had a much more powerful voice centuries ago, and the parliamentary process came into being to give more voice to our people.
History has never been my best subject, so exact dates escape me. Sad
I doubt that our political process differs massively as we all want basically the same thing.
I wonder if I would be right in thinking that the Republicans tend to be lead from a religious standpoint, and the democrats from a "Peoples only" standpoint. I don't want to kick anything off by these questions, I am just being healthily interested that's all.

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Re:Thanks Clay - They will be an interesting read
by Richard Jones Forum moderator / April 2, 2004 4:24 PM PST

Hi Steve,

I hope you and Clay don't mind if I 'butt in' here and impart my opinion. From my experience, Republicans are more likely than Democrats to base their platforms on religious principles. Sometimes it's obvious, other times not. While I'd guess that the percentage of "church-going" people is roughly the same for both parties, one hears more about God and the Bible from Republicans.

I remarked on this here at SE back in the 2000 Presidential election - wondering about separation of church and state - and was generally rebuked. It seemed to me that G.W.Bush mentioned God quite a bit more than necessary. "Faith-based" government funding is troubling to me.

I'm not an atheist, but sometimes it seems that God and Christianity are "invoked" to puff-up Americans. In times of war (as now) it can be overly "righteous".

Rick

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Thanks Rick
by SteveGargini / April 2, 2004 7:00 PM PST

I think you are absolutely right about basing decisions on religious principles. I tend to do it all the time myself.
If the republicans base their decisions on religious principles, what do you think the democrats base their decisions on?
I'm not pitching for trouble, just having an orderly discussion.

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hmmm
by Richard Jones Forum moderator / April 2, 2004 8:08 PM PST
In reply to: Thanks Rick

Hi Steve,

That's funny! Actually, what I should have noted is that Republicans *ostensibly* base their decisions on religious tenets. That's maybe a bit harsh - I think many do believe they have the public's best interests at heart, and see nothing wrong in saying, for instance, something like "God is on our side" (which I believe a U.S. officer in Iraq said recently). "God bless America" is another - it's a nice phrase and means well, but is more nationalistic than saying "God bless the World" and by implication is exclusive.It's a slight thing, but noticeable.

Democrats? The conservatives would have one believe that 'God' and 'Democrats' don't belong in the same sentence! Of course it's not true. They work out problems and have methods much the same as anyone else - though historically perhaps more "scientific" and we all know how the Church reacts to scientists!

The main impression I get is that if you meet a "Bible-thumper" s/he is probably a Republican. And while "Bible-thumper" is a derogatory term, so too is "Liberal" Wink

Rick

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Eloquently put there Rick :)
by SteveGargini / April 2, 2004 9:11 PM PST
In reply to: hmmm

I think my great uncle, who at first emigrated to Canada, and later I believe moved to Minesota, was a bible basher, have had to resist the temptation myself. Happy I guess he was a republican, especially since most of his family back in England were very conservative.
We see the effects of the scientific versus religious philosophies clashing on S.E, with the differing views about sexuality to name just one.
Thanks very much Rick for the input, I have got loads to think about now, including Clay's links, which I am grateful for.
Steve Happy

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Re: The Canadian Judge (link)
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and a far more detailed evaluation from CNET:
by IanC_OZ / April 1, 2004 9:21 AM PST
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Republicans in what sense?

The referenced bill was introduced by a republican and a democrat.

What first amendment right are you referring too? I don't really see where file sharing is protected by the first amendment.

I don't know exactly where I sit on this whole file sharing thing but I'll play devil's advocate for the moment. If I, as an artist, decided to publish a piece of music I wrote and copyright it as my own artistic works are you suggesting that my rights to control the distribution of my work is circumvented by the first amendment?

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