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Windows Vista Rant, Rant!

by mobile_bob / October 15, 2007 10:28 PM PDT

Ok so why do I feel like I was the only one around when XP came out. Doesn't anyone remember that many of the things people are complaining about with Vista happened when XP first came out! Peripherals not working is not Microsoft's fault but the company that makes the drivers! If there are no drivers it won't work! I remember having a printer and a webcam not work on XP and the hardware company flat out said it would never support XP for that hardware... I have been running Vista on three computers for many months and have not had major problems. Every time there is a major operating system upgrade there are the same problems with the same complaints, I think the major difference with Vista is that there are fewer gains in upgrading so people are not as quiet about the problems. Oh and remember the upgrade from Win95 to Win98? Nothing worked the same but Win95 was so bad no one cared because they just wanted off it!

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Vista Rant
by George Gray / October 15, 2007 10:50 PM PDT

mobile_bob is right on the money. No, you are not alone. I, too, remember the furor over XP. I remember certain tv people calling the interface 'fisher price' like, I remember the fuss over video card drivers, I remember people just hating XP. "Windows 2000 forever!" Right. I'm sure those are the same people singing the same tired song now. I'm with you, Bob: I have four Vista machines-one running Basic, two running Premium and one Ultimate and the one running Ultimate is the only one I've had blue screen on me and that was due to the video driver (Blast ATI!) The Basic machine, btw, is the fastest one in the house and it only has 512mb of ram too. We have one piece of software that will not work with Vista: SimThemePark. But, that game would not work well under XP either. The really amazing thing is that Vista was made available to device makers long before it went gold so you would think they would have had their drivers up to snuff already. Vista is not perfect, though. It totally sucks when it comes to filecopy. The recent updates help, but try copying to an SD card...snoring will ensue.

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My words exactly!
by SPIRIdk / October 16, 2007 12:08 AM PDT

That is so true. I do not remember the Xp launch very well, but I've been thinking exactly what you guys just said Happy

Recently Microsoft's man in Silicon Valley, Dan'l Lewin, was on the GigaOM Show (on revision3.com)*, and he said, what had happened to Vista is the blogosphere. And I think he's right on!

The difference between the launch of XP and the launch of Vista, is that people are blogging and podcasting and Digging etc. ect. about their problems, and therefore it seems, to a lot of people, that Vista is a disaster compared to XP, even though it might not be any worse.

* http://revision3.com/gigaom/lewin

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Vista is just fine for me as well...
by kwahhn / October 16, 2007 12:49 AM PDT

however, we waited years and years for this? Really nothing is blowing my mind about Vista, but it does work just fine for me.


I have Vista Ultimate by the way.

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Few problems
by three_toed_frog / October 16, 2007 2:26 AM PDT

I can't say I have many problems, either. Everything has been pretty smooth.

When I do have problems, I know it's not Vista's fault.

My video card gets super hot sometimes, that's Nvidia's deal.

Creative's audio drivers detect the wrong soundcard and thus will not update them (even though I downloaded drivers for my specific model.)

On the software side... I'd really like it if AIM (AOL), iTunes (Apple) and Audition (Adobe) integrated better with Vista's UI.

I know that Microsoft or Vista its self is not responsible for those developers not using the standard APIs. Some uniformity would be a nice thing to see from them.

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Good Insights
by milkky / October 16, 2007 1:41 AM PDT

I think the greater ease of communication is a major factor--may well be exaggerating the actual level of dissatisfaction compared to previous releases.

But, all this talk about "Yeah, boy I remember how bad X version's release was" is uncomfortable too. Just because we've been given stuff not-ready-for-prime-time before, does that make it OK that they did it again? I'd like to see the bar set a lot higher than that! If today's easier, broader, faster communications make it harder for the wool to be pulled over everyone's eyes, well that's just fine with me too.

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Amen.
by minimalist / October 31, 2007 2:46 PM PDT
In reply to: Good Insights

<i>Just because we've been given stuff not-ready-for-prime-time before, does that make it OK that they did it again? I'd like to see the bar set a lot higher than that! If today's easier, broader, faster communications make it harder for the wool to be pulled over everyone's eyes, well that's just fine with me too</i>

Amen.

And finger pointing doesn't really help. The average consumer user doesn't care whose fault it is. They just want their computer to work. It doesn't matter is its fair that Microsoft gets blamed. All that matters is that it ultimately makes them look bad. Part of running a successful business is learning to anticipate issues, whether or not they are technically your responsibility, and deal with them before they become PR problems.

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Microsoft just keep selling XP
by tashman / October 16, 2007 3:25 AM PDT

If microsoft just kept allowing retail stores to sell XP right along side Vista until nobody wanted XP anymore most of the public outcry would go away. Microsoft is forcing its will onto its users and when a company does this and it doesn't go smoothly you get push back. In the end microsoft doesn't care enough about its users to allow them to make a choice. This has been microsofts problem from day one.

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I agree, bob
by indy1333 / October 16, 2007 3:45 AM PDT

While I agree that Vista has some problems, people seem to ignore the fact that every operating system that has ever come out has had its rough spots at first. I've noticed very few problems with my two Vista machines, and certainly nothing that makes me cry "This sucks, it will never work, and Microsoft should just kill it off!" In my opinion, Microsoft's only big mistake was forcing it on people.

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XP Vetran
by Renegade Knight / October 16, 2007 5:04 AM PDT

Yeah, I recall the days when ME rolled around and was ran out of town. MS listend and came out with XP and it worked. Yes worked.

Vista doesn't. XP did. ME was just crap that even if it did work, never stood a chance.

You talk about drivers. MS made drivers have to jump through a lot of hoops that have NOTHING at all to do with DRIVING, and a lot to do with MS plans for DRM.

So, for the first time I have Driver Errors. I have BitLocker boot issues (yeah nice tool, but if I ever can't boot, that's going to suck), Media Player Issues, Stability Issues (nothing new with windows there, but you would think they would keep improving it). RAM Issues, And Compatibility issues that I would never have expected from Current software.

I recall, 1.X, 3.X, 95, 98, 98SE, 2000, XP and now Vista. Of those I worked with Vista is the worst of the lot for random issues that are not being fixed. Vista is the first that I ever had to use tech support on and that still didn't resolve the problem.

You are not alone that you haven't had "major" problems. But you are not in a majority of happy campers who have had the "normal" issues.

PS. Got any Win95 laptops laying around? I need one for compatibility issues...

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Vista Pluses
by George Gray / October 16, 2007 12:30 PM PDT
In reply to: XP Vetran

Well, for more on the positive side, I upgraded a DIY system for my ten year old son. It has a PC Chips mobo, 1 gb of ram, an ATI 1650 graphics card and used to run XP. I upgraded to Vista Home Premium, upgraded the stock video drivers and enabled the parental controls. The parental controls give him a bit of freedom while allowing me to better monitor what he does. I have set time limits for when he is in school, let him have more time on the weekends, keep track of web sites he goes to, block the ones he should not visit, control the language on forums he goes to and I can even prevent certain games from running. XP did not allow me to do this. Yes, I know I could have purchased software, but none of it seemed to do what I needed. Parental Controls in Vista do. This, alone, made it a worthy upgrade. As I said before, the only program that does not work is SimThemePark--but, we have that for the PSOne. One other thing...the hardware is nearly two years old, except the video card. I got that just a few months ago (Newegg is awesome.) Vista found all of the drivers just fine. The one headache I did have was the upgrade itself. NEVER upgrade...wipe the drive and start fresh. I upgraded two of my machines--yeah, some people never learn--and they were both time consuming (HOURS for the ULTIMATE upgrade.) The end result, however, was worth it.

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Good Post
by Renegade Knight / October 17, 2007 12:31 AM PDT
In reply to: Vista Pluses

I upgraded for BitLocker. It took some digging to figure out how to make it work without a TPM. I'm still having problmes in that some USB Drives work and some don't. I just bought a 4gb high speed USB drive to serve double duty as a speed enhancer for Vista and as the BitLocker Key. It does't work for a key. Frustrating.

Vista has a lot of good ideas built in. That's not the problem. The problem is blue Screen errors from DRM hacked drivers, Media Center Not working, Bitlocker being finiky on what USB Drives it will recognize when booting, and so on. It's the sheer magnitude of things that don't work, or don't work well.

Eventually they will get it working, BUT by then they will be talking about some new version and I'll be long past support for problems they could not solve when I did have tech support.

Actually I'm past tech support. MS did not solve one single issue that I had. The ONLY Reason I'm not back with XP is that BitLocker does work with one USB key that I have. Sometimes.

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Wrong post replied to..
by George Gray / October 17, 2007 6:35 AM PDT
In reply to: Good Post

Sorry, I replied to the wrong post. I see how your issue would be very irksome. I have not seen those issues. Only one blue screen so far, and that was just a crappy ATI driver.

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couldn't agree more!!
by rivanf / October 19, 2007 10:04 AM PDT
In reply to: XP Vetran

I also remember the old OS'. all the way back to 1978. Until Vista I never had one heat up my system to the point that it caused an emergency shutdown...repeatedly....until I was able to go back to XP, which I will be using through its lifecycle.

Down with Vista!!!

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Beat me to it...
by kcoppock / October 16, 2007 6:39 AM PDT

I actually just came here to post a thread on this, but you've already got it. Wink

I'm honestly sick of hearing continual comments on how much Vista sucks, <i>without any reason behind it</i>. If you want to tell me <i>WHY</i> you hate Vista, or <i>WHY</i> you think it sucks, I'm fine with that, but when the stories are always about "some mother hates Windows Vista", or something similar, give me a break.

I've been running Windows Vista Business edition since February, and I can count the problems I've had on one hand. First issue was with iTunes. It wouldn't work properly, and Apple took their sweet time updating to a newer version. Not a huge deal, I could still sync, it just had some repetitive errors. Next issue was with a Maxtor OneTouch III External HDD I bought. Vista wouldn't find the drivers, the downloads from Maxtor didn't work properly (gave me a bluescreen), but I eventually just uninstalled the drivers, and when I plugged it in next time, I just pointed the installer to C:/Windows, and it found the drivers just fine.

I work at an Officemax store in Alabama, so I get a lot of people coming in to buy computers, and also just Vista upgrade discs. However, it's been my experience that most of the issues people have are either:

<b>A) Trying to upgrade</b> their $400 e-machine that they bought back in 2001. It's a new OS people, suck it up, you'll have to finally upgrade. I don't see why people expect that their old system should be able to handle it.

<b>B) Trying to find drivers</b> for ancient equipment. I have an actual example, which I swear to you is no exaggeration. I had a customer actually call and complain because her digital camera would not work on Vista. Her camera was a Panasonic (not sure of the exact model, PD 650 or something, I believe) with .3 Megapixels. Yes, you read that right, POINT THREE. Not three, POINT three. It came with a standard 8 MB SmartMedia card, and had no zoom. There HAS to be a line where you stop supporting products.

Same goes for printers too, usually the problems are people trying to connect their old parallel printers that won't work. All HP printers that have been released in the past several months (even before Vista) will work plug and play with Vista. The software that comes with them might not, but the hardware will still function. HP continues to release updated drivers for these, which we usually end up downloading for the people who buy our printers, since they are too lazy to do it themselves.

My system I built myself a year or so ago, maybe longer, I don't remember exactly when. It's got a Pentium D 840, 3 GB DDR2 RAM, and a Geforce 6200 LE crappy graphics card. It only had 1 GB RAM when I first put it together, and the only time it had trouble was when I ran Photoshop and Illustrator together at the same time, but with 3 GB it runs perfectly.

Update your hardware people, or don't expect an update to your software! Wink

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Vista Ready
by Renegade Knight / October 18, 2007 2:22 AM PDT
In reply to: Beat me to it...

The PC I'm talking about was "Vista Read" and later came with Vista Pre-Installed.

Another machine came with Vista from the factory.

There you go. Vista Problems on Vista machines, that should be able to run Vista.

If you strip out the glitz, Vista should run well enough on older machines. They were touting it as faster after all.

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vista ready
by marieclaire2 / October 21, 2007 1:10 AM PDT
In reply to: Vista Ready

my new computer came with vista already in it. it was pakaged deal with my phone/internet company, 3 days later, its so slow even my screen saver freeze. i have all security i can have. i just write an e-mail and it freeze,my pentium 3 is faster,checked my internet connection it was ok,i have the french CD to reinstall,not the english CD what to do?

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Speeding Up Vista
by Renegade Knight / October 22, 2007 1:01 AM PDT
In reply to: vista ready

In your case you should search out ways to speed up vista. There are a number of tricks you can use to speed it up. Just running all the security software will slow it down.

Just use Google to search for ways to speed up vista, do them, and you should pick up some speed gains.

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Why I Don't Like Vista
by teddkg / October 19, 2007 8:50 PM PDT
In reply to: Beat me to it...

kcoppock, First of all the title of my post is somewhat misleading. I like Vista and I'd like to like it even more. But I do have one reason why I don't like Vista: As I stated earlier in this thread, It is being FORCED FED to us! We have no choice (if we want a current model, Windows based machine) but to buy machines with Vista on it and downgrading is impossible or painfully difficult.

That is the reason I, personally, don't like Vista. The reason I want to use XP is because I have business software that won't run on Vista and the manufacture has no intention of making a Vista compatible version for 1-2 years.

Is that a good enough reason?

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Sure
by kcoppock / October 19, 2007 10:52 PM PDT
In reply to: Why I Don't Like Vista

Sounds like a good reason to me. Wink

I guess I don't really remember the launch of XP that well, did they not discontinue the '98/2000/ME computers when it launched?

Just curious, what software is it that doesn't work with Vista, if you don't mind my asking?

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Problem Software in Vista
by teddkg / October 20, 2007 4:41 PM PDT
In reply to: Sure

I don't mind you asking at all. There are two programs that I am struggling with. One is Novel's GroupWise. That is the mail communication program one of the companies I work for uses. I know, its GroupWise, but the organization and its 20,000+ employees are on it and the company is just now thinking of changing. The version of GroupWise they are using isn't going to be Vista ready for ~2 years.

The other is a BIG surprise. Its a Cisco VPN Software client. Cisco said that the software won't be Vista ready until next summer. I was big time surprised by that!

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Not such a hard task
by KanineLupus / October 20, 2007 9:13 PM PDT

If you are having trouble setting up particular software that is not yet updated for Vista, try making use of the compatibility options. Right-click on the offending application's intall .exe (can also try this for the ap's .exe after installed if still having issues). Set to "run as admin" and set the compatibilty to XP SP2 and disable the Aero. In most cases this should get you around those sticky software issues Happy

As to buying with XP, contact the PC manufacturer ...I know both Dell & Toshiba will still sell you and OEM version of XP if you request it.

Networking (with media) - run a home network of 3PC's, 1 iMac and a Notebook and had no issues networking on a wireless router (with the home server physically connected to the gateway router). The only area I found any more technical in Vista was the extra security options.

Keep in mind that Vista WILL NOT NETWORK WITH A WINDOWS ACCOUNT WHICH IS NOT PASSWORD PROTECTED - Windows own help menu will tell you that if you make use of it Happy

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Good Sugestions, but....
by teddkg / October 20, 2007 10:38 PM PDT
In reply to: Not such a hard task

I tried those and thank you! I tried running Installing GroupWise under XP and it kept failing. Novel said that they've experienced it, but they have no plans to fix it for now.

As for running XP, HP said when I bought the machine that if after getting it, I needed XP, they'd help. In reality, when I contact them and asked for XP they said that they could not and would not help AND if I dare install XP, I'd void my warranty. That infuriated me!!!

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Whose fault is that?
by StunnedMonkey / October 20, 2007 11:25 PM PDT

The fact is that Microsoft (and Vista) are routinely blamed for third-party vendors who have dragged their feet and not provided proper driver or app support for the new OS. Vista didn't take anyone by surprise, it's been in development (with widely available beta versions) seemingly forever. If Novell or HP or NVidia or Cisco don't have their produclt line properly supported at launch, then that's the fault of Novell, HP, NVidia, and Cisco. It doesn't mean that Vista sucks.

I've been running Vista on a new build sinc last November, with hardware chosen by me for the task. It's been the most stable OS I've ever run, and I've run pretty much every MS OS since DOS 3.2.

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True, but I see the point...
by kcoppock / October 21, 2007 12:21 AM PDT
In reply to: Whose fault is that?

Yes, it's Novell's and Cisco's fault for not having software updates (two years though? That surprises me!), but I can see how the cost of upgrading all the computers to Vista, PLUS replacing all their software with new software, training all the employees on that new software, and correcting whatever problems come up from changing it, etc., would be a very expensive task.

For home users though, I don't see the issue. I'm still wondering what the justification was behind that mother's rant who started arguing with Ballmer about it, the article didn't say. Typical, I suppose.

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Enterprise adoption is always slow
by StunnedMonkey / October 21, 2007 12:55 AM PDT

Yeah two years is nuts, of course, we're taking the poster's word that that's really the case.

Slow enterprise adoption of a new OS is the norm, and it didn't start with Vista. I was a network engineer in a moderately-sized (2000 seats) IT department when XP launched. My co-workers and I installed XP immediately (for testing purposes) but XP wasn't rolled out the to masses for well over a year following its release. That didn't mean that XP sucked, it just meant the the cost coupled with the compatibility concerns didn't warrant an immediate roll-out. I'm sure it's exactly the same today with Vista. In fact, I'd be suspicious of any large orginization that tries to roll out Vista on an enterprise scale this soon after its launch.

My impressions are that the Vista launch is pretty much exactly like the XP launch, which was (to a lesser degree) similar to the 2000 launch. The difference is that today the Internet allows everyone to vent and pile on and make it seem far more the fiasco than it really is.

IMHO.

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Business' slow adoption...
by George Gray / October 21, 2007 11:27 AM PDT

is an understatement. I work for a fortune 500 company with approx. 17k employees. We only STARTED deploying XP last year. We JUST upgraded to Office 2003 from OFFICE 97 this year. It took end of lifing of Lotus Notes 5.x to force us to upgrade to Notes/Domino 6.5.x. So...Yeah, we would not get Vista for several years. Large companies are rarely on the cusp of being 'current' in terms of OS/Productivity, etc. Heck, we are STILL running som DOS based applications that use Novell's old bTrieve database manager! Talk about progress.

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The Fact Really IS
by Renegade Knight / October 26, 2007 7:30 AM PDT
In reply to: Whose fault is that?

MicroSoft forced their DRM scheme onto driver makers increasing the complexity of their drivers and thereby creating more issues in the process. MicroSoft is directly to blame for Driver delays, Driver Issues and future DRM problems that a lot of us will have when working with these drivers under Vista.

If MS wants to sidestep the blame, they should limit drivers to providing information needed by Vista to interface with hardware. That is more than enough work for a driver to do.

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Which Cisco VPN client are you using?
by Michael Borland / October 31, 2007 1:16 PM PDT

I have a Cisco IPSec VPN client running on Vista right now and it works great. I understand from our Network Team that the SSL VPN client package is also available, but we have to wait until our DR ASA appliance comes in before we can start testing the new SSL package.

Michael

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Well Actually......
by teddkg / October 16, 2007 12:16 PM PDT

We have to remember that when XP came out, I could still by computers with Windows 2000 on it if I wanted to. Today, it is Vista or bust. That is a HUGE difference and makes my right to complain about Vista that much more relevant, in my opinion, since Microsoft is trying to force it upon me!

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Tech podcast / forum...
by 1hrSleep / October 16, 2007 4:00 PM PDT
In reply to: Well Actually......

This is a tech podcast and forum and yet you guys are buying pre-built machines?? >=) I'm a proud user of Vista Ultimate 64-bit on my e6600 (@ 3.6ghz) and 4gbs of RAM.

As MacDonald's ads say:
I'm lovin' it.

With that said...
I have zero issues with driver compatibility. Only problem I could see would be from really foreign/old product... Or Creative soundcards... But everybody knows Creative isn't exactly a great company for drivers. A Sondigo, or even just the Chaintech sound card would be a better buy. Heck, on board sound these days are just fine. I'm using my onboard with a HK receiver and stereo speakers. Great sound (minor hiss).

Also, my dad's laptop came with Vista 32-bit, home edition. No problems on that side either. A little slow (expected) but it runs well enough.

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