Windows Vista Bugs

Guys and Gals - its our money we're forking out to buy a "new" product that claims to be able to do .... well doesnt matter how much they claim it'll do - if it aint compatible , it aint gonna do nothing ! Right?
So why are we having to go find another driver, when Microsoft brought out this new - all singing all dancing piece of #?*~!?

Consider some real life ownership experiences:-
You own a car or a bike... you fill it up with fuel everyday ... you rely on the fuel to work each time you pay cash at the gas station... tomorrow some genius called Gates opens up another chain of fuel stations (called VISTA) and claims it'll make your investment(the car!) go faster... and claims it'll do a bit of "this" and a bit of "that"... so muggins pays up real quick, fills up his tank with this new spangled fuel and turns the ignition key... the car/bike shoots off loudly a spurt of smoke and the vehicle just stands there with the motor/engine spluttering and puffing out loads of smoke... - so what do you do?

Do you complain to the car manufacturer that the car doesnt supply (free of charge of course! some new adaptor to work with the new fuel? - ha ha, get real !!)
Or maybe you think the tyre manufacturer has to also redesign some magical adaptor?
- or maybe there's something else wrong with the windscreen wipers ...
just because you decided it's a great idea to trust the fuel manufacturer - that's the guy called "gates" and his claims was it'll make your trusted car/motor vehicle ...
"go faster"...
and he also writes in there somewhere, a disclaimer that his "fuel" (software - in your case - IT nerds!)is not responsible for any incompatibility problems... should your vehicle suddenly start to malfunction...
oh yes - would you acccept the new fuel, and say that your Viper/Mustang/Toyota Yarris/Buick - whatever !... aint working cause your car manufacturer hasnt kept up with developing an adaptor to ensure when the new fuel is launched, we're all gonna suddenly find walking is a great past time to get yourself to work ...
oh and yes! the breakdown service aint gonna believe it's the car manufacturers' fault either...
so stop looking for praise and excuses ... when a new service or product (in this case Operating System / in the case of the car - the new fuel !
- get the similarity? boys & girls !? huh .. )

Its the manufacturer's responsibility to ensure that their "new" product ( that's VISTA - in case you havent been paying attention) WILL be compatible with "MY" car, and "YOUR" precious investment, and not any other way around. It also doesnt matter how long it takes to develop the adaptors, its still Microsoft's responsibility to work with the other providers, "IF" Microsoft values their "support"... so
Gates should get his finger out of the proverbial luxury of complacency and start working with the rest of the computing industry - yes there are many other providers - not just Microsoft !, BEFORE he launches yet another falsely claimed product, and decides ... "sod it, I dont care if the rest of the IT world wants to be on time... he doesnt have the choice... cause his product IS CREATING the problems, if my hardware suddenly experiences incompatibility problems

- YES I do find the maker of VISTA responsible for my equipment if it suddenly malfunctions after installing such a product.

And YES I DO EXPECT the makers of VISTA to provide the required range of adpators with my valueable purchase
IF HE WANTS to make any claims that VISTA will work with my equipment... if he doesnt make that claim - then my conclusion is his new star spangled product (VISTA) - simply ISNT READY for general distribution... and like any new fuel introduced to the world of ever decreasing natural resources, such new products may not make universal compatibility claims
nor be allowed to be released, without some seriously loud and bold warning statements on the outside of the packaging
- just like whats on the packaging of cigarettes these days - or have you not noticed the large & bold warnings on every packet of ciggies - it says

"SMOKING KILLS "
- why? because that's a truthful, and legally binding statement, because had these statements been around a lot earlier many parents and grandparents would have lived a heck of a lot longer !
That was cancer and cigarettes, ...
this (Vista) is purchased with my money
You guys ! how easilly you all accept the irresponsible attitude Microsoft takes on working out their so called "operating system" enhancements ! -

Oh Yes - if enhancing my O.S. means having to guess, and wait for my trusty PC to suddenly stop working - for any reason at all after installing VISTA - is both an indicator of a manufacturer's disregard for Industry Compliance, as well as a damning symptom of our buyers' ignorance
- that we are so willing to part with our hard earned cash - to believe everything that Microsoft claims on their box !

Well - who is gonna pay for our lost time in trying to find the (new drivers)solutions to these "software related consequential losses" ? - Insurance companies
- WAKE UP !!
- how about selling to all PC users, insurance policies protecting us against O.S. manufacturer's damaging products and services...
you do sell Insurance against "consequential loss for motor vehicles/drivers" - dont you?

Just spare a moment to consider these similarities - OK, and stop defending Microsoft
- I somehow suspect some of you guys who wrote in to support Microsoft, I reckon I can count at least three of you guys as Microsoft employees
- anyone in the discussion thread care to put their hands up and say who you work for ? that'll make interesting reading ? heh !

PS
I DONT work for ANY software or hardware IT manufacturer, I am a computer user, and I do drive a car & a motorcycle also... so I do know the experiences of "incompatibility" - AND I dont want to be forever doing the searching for newer drivers,
- it's the maker of the next product to do THAT work

... heh - it's MY MONEY, and if Microsoft wants my support , Gates better realise what damage he's doing to our confidence, - it's NOT plain sailing BILL !

You said this has never happened to other operating systems. This happens every time a new os comes out. Anyone remember Windows 95? Now you also said Microsoft makes it difficult for other people to write compatible software. I don't know what the **** os you're using, but this has been Microsoft's strength since it's beginning. That is why everyone started using Microsoft. If you want to talk about an os you cant write drivers for talk about OS X.

I bought Vista Home Premium - mistake! Printer, Scanner and three apps don't work. I now banished Vista to a separate HD and it must wait for SP1 or 2. I'll be darned if I am going to spend more money on hardware and software. XP recognised all the above and ran them fine. No logic can claim that Vista is progress. As Microsoft is busy getting the NEXT version (Vienna?) I suspect that, like ME, is just a stopgap and revenue source until the real update to XP is ready.

All Microsoft had to do was to be honest. The Vista Advisor steered many people toward an ill-advised upgrade. What people really needed was a fair analysis of their computer systems. Instead, Microsoft?s Vista Advisor left out valuable information in the hopes that people would upgrade, encounter various problems and disgruntled consumers would do all of the work effecting change. It?s amazing how we went from the simplicity promised in XP back to the days of DOS where you needed to be a computer tech just to print or to hear music.

I am sure that some people went by what the advisor told them and installed Vista.
I for one checked on the Microsoft website to see what Vista required hardware wise to make sure before I installed the program that my computer could handle it.
I used the advisor to check for conflicts with software installed and it told me I had to remove Nero 7 ultra and Norton Internet security 2007 before installing Vista, which I did then downloaded the updates off the vendors web site.
I did have a problem with opening transferred files with Office 2003, so I ended up buying office 2007 which was the only extra expense. That came with a free 1gig PNY thumb drive at Staples so even that didn't sting as bad.
I have had a good experience with the install and thanks to John I was able to download all the drivers I needed except the scanner which leads us back to HPs problem.
I know I had more trouble when I upgraded to XP than I did upgrading to Vista.

My subject pretty much says it all. When I upgraded to XP, I had literally zero problems in terms of conflicts. This isn't to say that conflicts didn't exist; indeed they did exist. However, I was able to immediately resolve all conflicts in XP either with updates through the vendors themselves or with updates/enhancements provided by Microsoft by the time I went to XP, with was about 3-6 months after XP released (I still had it before my office did, which meant that I was the guy everyone turned to when the office upgraded to XP Pro).

To me, perhaps the most damning piece of the upgrade puzzle with regard to Vista is the issue with hardware incompatibilities and the lack of full functionality in Vista when you have a computer that is not more than a year old. The fact that Microsoft limits functionality based on hardware configurations and then doesn't plan for ways around that (like using virtual RAM or allowing the reallocation of computer RAM to augment graphics card RAM so that things like Aero and the mini "previews" that should appear when you hold your mouse pointer over a minimized program's button on the taskbar will work as advertised. Basically, this whole upgrade is not only a financial windfall for Microsoft, but it's also a boon to the suppliers of PCs and their peripherals. For desktops, people are doubtless going to need to buy upgraded graphics cards at the very least, new motherboards at the most. For laptops the issue is worse because there really isn't any way to upgrade the components that need to be upgraded in order for Vista to have full functionality. You're either stuck with the most basic version of Vista, or you're going to have to go out and buy a brand new laptop that is going to be configured to give you what you want out of Vista. Frankly, I find that incredibly pathetic.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: shell out the dough for a Mac with at least 250GB on the hard drive--not only will you get everything the Mac OS X has to offer (which, by the way, is the inspiration for Vista), but you'll also get the benefit of having a second computer <i>when you install your copy of XP and run it right on your Macintosh computer!</i>

Yes, that's right; you can install and run XP on your Mac, though you'll need some disk space to do it. You can actually run XP in a separate partition (you'll need to restart and boot as an XP machine using this configuration), or there is another way you can actually "run" XP right from within the Mac OS, allowing you to "toggle" between the two without having to reboot. I'm not yet sure if you will be able to do the same with Vista, but my gut reaction to that question would be "Why not?" I'm sure we'll be finding out very shortly whether or not the Mac/Vista combination on one machine is possible.

This is the beauty of the new Intel-based Macs--you essentially get two computers in one, which makes sense with the price you pay for a decent Mac (an issue I still have with Apple, but after having so many problems with PCs having catastrophic failures over the last 18 months, the $3000 I shelled out for a new MacBook Pro and a couple of additional programs as well as the extended warranty/service program from Apple was well worth it).

Given this, I really see no reason to ever buy another PC, not when you can buy a machine that is far more reliable and that has an OS that actually functions right out of the box with everything it promises (which includes true plug-n-play capability with every peripheral I've encountered--I don't even need to use the software that came with my digital camera; I just plug my camera into my Mac and it does everything for me!).

I purchased an HP Pavillion last September that had the little Vista compatible sticker on the front...what a joke! My 1G of memory is barely enough and I don't have a video card so I can't use any of Aero. When investigating various Vista compatible video cards for my PCI express slot, I discovered that my 300 watt power supply is not up to the task. I have a 600 watt power supply on the way, as well as a ATI Radeon x1959xt video card. I should also receive any day 3G of memory which will replace my 1GB. My sound card is not compatible with my 5.1 surround speakers (even with the recently downloaded drivers) so I will have to buy one of those when it becomes available. My machine that I considered a bargain to be Vista compatible at 600$ is now receiving more than that amount of money in upgrades. I also purchased office 2007 the same day and it is completely incompatible with Norton Internet security. After speaking with Symantec, I downloaded a patch that they assured me would "fix the problem" I was never able to startup my machine again. My boyfriend had to purchase an external drive to recover my files from my hard drive and then he wiped my machine and started over. Until all my upgrades get here my dual core processor pc is running as slow as mud and if I should happen to have a power point open and Word while transcribing my recorded lectures from class,well you can just forget about it. I love what I've seen of Vista so far, but I agree that the Upgrade Advisor was not really helpful. I believe that once I installed Vista my machine only rated a 2.7!

All I can say to anyone and everyone that wants to upgrade to VISTA
Make sure your hardware is totally compatible - I personally would not even attempt to upgrade yet - wait a few months for Microsoft and all the vendors to sort out all the bugs and the third party drivers. Personally I bought a G5 iMac, the real Mac system and not the Intel based system - Im running Tiger OS X 10.4.8 - I make sure all my updates are regularly done and I dont even have any Internet Security or Anti-Virus application runnning on it - Dont need to - its UNIX BASED and there aint no way in hell I'm going to get hacked, get a virus, and most of all have to put up with all the red tape from Microsoft and the vendors...
Have a look at all the Apple adverts online and on your tv - has Microsoft had an answer to all those adverts.. no no no because they know Mac's are superior to Windows Systems...

Myself i think i am just going to stay away from viasta all the way around just stick with old faithful windows xp home an the IE 7

I seem to recall how fantastic it was when XP was released. I seem to recall that XP had all the ME drivers and a whole lot more, which made moving from ME to XP really easy. So why aren't all the XP drivers embedded and compatible in Vista?? Why couldn't the XP driver database be included in Vista, or am I missing a fundamental point somewhere along the line!. It just seems so logical to me.

A driver is a software program that tells the OS what the hardware is. Why did Microsoft have to change the driver model? It has nothing to do with computer security as far as I know. I actually think it is deliberate on Microsoft to change it just so it's proprietary. Look what they did with Java (remember write once, run everywhere?). Microsoft made their own PROPRIETARY changes to Java, essentially making a Windows version that would not run on other architectures. There is no technical reason why a printer driver would have to be changed since program compatibility is supposed to be better in Vista. Did the printer commands change?

Don't get me started. There is not technological excuse for having to write a Vista-specific driver only that Microsoft wants it to be proprietary.

is pre-installed on a brand spanking new system. My two laptops are 1 and 4 years old. I have some older 95 and 98 software that I tweaked to be able to use it with XP, that I know will probably not run under Vista. I also run a 95/98 "legacy" machine for progams that don't run under XP. Since for me they are "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" category, I saw no need to upgrade them.

I am sure, that with a brand new system, all the drivers and software on the machine will work fine, but installing Vista upgrade on my current machines? I'm not going to chance it. "If it ain't broke..."

Most of my software that ran OK on XP won't run on Vista. Finally installed a second hard drive, loaded XP Pro on it, and I dual-boot either Vista for its graphics capability or XP so I can continue to manage my two businesses. Don't care whose fault it is! My programs should run in compatability mode!

But as you said you installed software that ran on XP and it wouldn't run on Vista. I would only be getting Vista 'approved' software, and personally, getting new Vista versions of all the perfectly good working software I have would be too danged expensive.

So as it stands now, I will keep my two XP machines just the way they are.

A MacIntel isn't a REAL Mac? That's like saying that the Motorola 68K Macs were the only real Macs, and that PowerPC isn't a "real Mac."

Sorry, my absolute BEST Mac is a MacIntel...a MacBook that smokes the G5 you rhapsodize over. I have done the comparison myself. My MacBook with 2GB of RAM kicks all matter of *** over a G5 minitower with the same amount of RAM doing a video encode.

And once Leopard and its native code and 64-bit capability comes on the scene...things will only get speedier.

Recently I was speaking with a friend about Vista who actually convinced me to go Windows in 1999. I came from a Mac background and was, at the time, not sure about Apple's future. I went through the "XP conversion" and it was expensive for me - new software and hardware. I nearly bought all new peripherals just to do what I did before. Vista, it seems will be similar. I work in tech and we have a copy of Vista to test with our software and hardware and some issues are a given. We are just begining with that new added task to the duty roster.

What concerns me though is that all of this mess just adds to the Windows issues. My "friend" that I mentioned made a point that is logical but it led me to agree with the previous post writer's conclusion - consider an Apple.

In December I built a great Windows platform machine - Intel Core 2, 2GB RAM, SATA, 8800GTS, etc to the tune of $1100 after rebates and rehash of some used components. In November I got a Macbook. Recently I started working on the Apple platform AGAIN and I just want to share one experience. I had to upgrade the firmware on the motherboard I purchased. I had to download the program, download another program and install it to expand the file, go get a floppy to install the expanded file, format it, install the file, run the program, set my machine to boot from floppy in bios (it actually was not set that way) and remove the floppy for a reboot to update the bios on my new machine. All of this was done AFTER I discovered the "important needed update" from the manufacturer on their website while checking on my rebate - no prompting. Now, one evening about the same time I did all of that (in Jan) I booted the laptop and got a prompting from software update that there was an important update for my machine to be downloaded. It too was a firmware update. The file downloaded with a message that popped open telling me to double-click on the program and then after the machine shut down, press and hold the power button until the power button flashed quickly then release. The firmware updated and the machine rebooted itself.

My point? Although the argument is age-old, my one experience I shared made me realize why I was an Apple user in the first place. I started on Kaypro (CPM) and discovered Apple. It was simplicity that drew me and efficiency. Why work on the computer when you should be working on the task at hand. SO many times I have had some stupid update from Microsoft suddenly cause a conflict on my computer or a virus lead my computer into a restart frenzy (I run two antivirus programs) - true there are other 3rd parties involved but do I want to spend an entire evening going to 6-7 websites looking for and hopefully downloading updates, rebuilding my computer after the virus or, doing what I planned to do on the computer to begin with? One realization that I see with Vista is so much what the Mac already is only without the issues. Many people who buy Windows machines equate their computer issues as common to the use of computers, not realizing that the platform itself is much of the headache. I've used Windows for 8 years and am a certified technician of the platform and I will continue to use Windows because of my work but I have concluded that my experience with both platforms logically leads to wanting a simpler way to do my work and Windows complicates things. Vista is and will be an improvement overall to the platform but it will also add to the ongoing issues.

Guys - Please dont sell MACS just because of Microsoft's poor attitude, I love MACS too, and work with them at a design outfit, as well as with PCs at a financial corporation, and at home. They all have merits and are bought for their relevant functional benefit. So please dont give a poor excuse to switch to Macs, as Macs are not the best for "everything"...

And the harping about HP - If you really want to swop stories about how poor one brand is over another, we all have many personal stories to tell, I am trying hard to get you guys to wake up to the fact that "ANY" manufacturer has to be mad to own that responsibility that they may bot legally be permitted to intoduce any product into a marketplace, when it is already being proved by these forums, that the product VISTA has caused, introduce operational problems, - the very fact that the owner of the system is forced to go look elsewhere for drivers, is not an acceptable practice. Will you guys record the conversations you have when advice is being given at such centre at Microsoft, and replay it so that Bill Gates can hear for himsoelf how stupid, and irresponsible his troops are?!
Furthermore, I would like to point out that I have NEVER experienced any problems with using any software item from HP - when using their printers, or multifunction devices... as its really during the same periods of the introduction of a "new" O.S. by Microsoft... at every stage of a new OS introduction, the whole world gets a backlash of "new" drivers are needed... When I first used XP, I did wait till SP2 was available, and every hardware I added, only some required unique drivers, others were included with their XP range of drivers, etc... with little hassle to get hold of... but

we the muggins are still doing all the legwork
W H Y are we forever doing this unnecessary work - looking for yetr another "new" driver for the latest Microsoft O.S.

W H Y cant it be like the SP2 for the XP O.S. whereby at that "later" stage... all universal drivers werer already packaged neaty -


If I ever step up from my trusty Renault Laguna (that's my car, for you guys over stateside) to another Renault model - I do not expect Renault to tell me that I may have to go to another organisation to have to find an electronic switch or key to allow me to get into the boot, or open the bonnet, or anything!

- I simply expect my "new" car to "WORK"

i.e. switch on the ignition (power switch is the equivalent on my computer) and drive away using my fuel from any local petrol station (possibly BP or ESSO fuel - petrol or diesel, or LRP gas, etc..)

I dont expect them to sell me a new car, and subsequently give me any excuse that I have to go somewhere else to find "any" adaptor to drive my car... just like I expect my new "operating system" to work on my present computer hardware, AND EVERYTHING that's currently connected to my working XP O.S.

- is that so unreasonable? I dont think so

JUST WHY do you guys allow Microsoft to get away with this expectation of downloading yet another driver - I am refering to CURRENTLY available hardware , not tomorrow's new HP scanner, or Lexmark printer, or Scandisk whatever...

WE are the paying public, and if Microsoft continues to ignore our frustrations you guys should all practice what you preach... i.e. stop moaning about it ... take the product back to the store, and demand your money back, if that fails due to an ignorant store manager, then go to court, sue the store for selling a product which doesnt "work"
- in UK go to the citizens advice bureau and take out a claims against the supplier (YEP the local computer store is going to have to suffer first - then they can do the next stage and stop stocking an UNRELIABLE new O.S.)

Microsoft has been getting away with it for so many years - its simply gotta stop !

Are there any legal bods out there reading these threads... kindly suggest a mass movement appeal process... cause its just like Apple's Ipod batteries (remember them leaky/overheated useless batts)in the early Ipods,... this Microsoft malarky has just got to stop !

My laptop from work died and rather than put any more money into it we bought a Dell Inspiron 6400 pre-loaded with Vista. Well the Palm-Pilot won't synch, the Motorola phone won't charge off the USB, let alone synch.The USB external drive works intermittently.

For those of you who say it's the device guys who didn't do their job, what about Windows Mail? Isn't that a MS product? It locks up and you have to go in as an admin and run a program in Command mode (ie DOS) to fix it. When the locking Outbox error occurred, Microsoft directed me to it's "community" ie not Microsoft Support but other unpaid poor souls in the same boat. That's offloading responsibility.

I just tried the spell checker in Windows Mail and it doesn't work now either. I fixed it see...

http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.vista.mail&cat=en_US_9CA88DDB-D18D-FA0E-A366-6E527B0FBA67&lang=en&cr=US&query="This%20language%20is%20no%20longer%20available%20for%20spell%20checking."

We have a web application that has to be accessed as part of our job and guess what, it runs under Firefox on Vista but locks up with IE.

People have encouraged me to format the disk and install XP....

Well, after reading all the messages on vista upgrade I am very relunctent to do this, I have a new comp. which is a custom one, running a sempron 3800+ 1GB ram ATI grafic card 550 series, XP pro SP2 with IE7, checked with vista readiness program said no problem, but am sure there will be one LOL. I wanted to upgrade because I had a redemption form for vista buisness free and will be comeing soon, guess Ill put it on E-Bay. As far as HP goes with my system there software hates me, have had nothing but trouble with there program and XP. I believe next time Iam going to buy a comp. I think ill try a Mac or something else. Thanks for all the info Neil

It's not the fact that a Gig of memory or a 300W psu isn't enough for Vista, it's the fact that you're trying to make them work encased inside a Pavilion. I have no intention of turning this into an anti-HP thread, but I know from experience that they use the absolute *lowest* of the low when it comes to hardware. Crap hardware, no matter what the specs boast, isn't going to run anything halfway decent or which requires any amount of power.

I started with HP support in 2001. It was when I moved from the tech department to a position as a case manager handling corporate escalations that I really got a look at what they were really about. Selling used components (anything assembled in Mexico distinguished by a serial number beginning with `MX') and using bottomfeeding retailers like Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and Best Buy to push their product were but a scratch on the surface.

I built my own machine back in 2002. Five years later, my 512MB of memory and 300W psu have never experienced a problem while running Vista. It may be because I opted for Crucial brand memory and a brand-name power supply, along with reputable components elsewhere inside. While HP was using defective Fujitsu hard disks 200,000+ of which they were ruled liable to replace, brands like WD and Maxtor forge ahead. Look at some of the Pavilion motherboards of the day; you can visibly *see* the solder points where components were pried off the mobo and covered up. And you're trusting that level of quality to run the latest OS on the market?

the windows 98 disaster, it took a year back then to iron out all the bugs, incompatibilities - and that was actually the time one should have abandoned Microsoft all-together and start using mac's.
Microsoft will ALWAYS consider fast profit over customer service. That's all there is to it.
We all know it and yet still we are weak enough to fall for them every time.

We are the ones, that BUY their stuff so quickly.

Hello and welcome to Linux etc. Microsoft is like a Rolls Royce: Armani suit ticking for the heart attack.

It took Microsoft 5 years to bring Vista to messes and it is Microsoft responsibility to make sure Vista work with most of my hardware and software.
I have Vista for almost 6 month (since beta) and i can tell you it's not worth your hard-earned money.
STICK WITH XP OR MOVE OVER TO MAC.

I was planning to test Vista RC1, after testing Beta 2, on an old Gigabyte motherboard with dual PIII processors and 2G RAM. No video card I had was Aero compatible, so I bought an 8x AGP ATI card with 256M of memory, and added it before the installation. As it turns out the motherboard drivers with the RC did not support AGP any faster than 1x, so the card really did not help Vista performance much, if at all. Bummer.

I had to shut down the test machine to make room for another PC. Then the fan on my main XP machine started making a lot of noise, so I had to open it up. I decided to switch video cards with the Vista box. I was in a hurry, and while I got the XP machine prepared, I didn't worry about the Vista machine.

A week later I thought about the Vista PC. I added a nVidia 64M card in the AGP slot, and turned on the power. I fully expected a blue screen and a potential total rebuild. (See, I DO have experience with Linux.) Much to my ammusement, the Vista graphical interface launched, asked me to wait, and about five minutes later asked me to login. I did so, and the card was fully recognized and functional. It had never seen that card before, I had done a total format and install with the RC. ATI to nVidia in five minutes, no muss, no fuss.

I don't think XP or any other operating system, PC or otherwise, COULD have done it. This considering that no prep was performed and the range of video cards for a non-Mac is huge.

And this machine is testing Kubuntu 6.10 right now. Installation was quick, but no audio of course and after about 200M of security downloads, the video decided I had a wide-screen LCD monitor. It only took about 1-1/2 hours and several reboots after the video settings applet crashed repeatedly to find a way to get it to recognize the CRT monitor. Not ready for prime time.

These vendors had plenty of time to get drivers and software updates completed to support Vista. It blows me away how my Dell laptop worked perfect after a clean install. Including the wacky sound card, etc. However, my HP printer requires a hack around which didn't work so now I can't print at home. Yet the Konkia printer in the office works perfect.

Microsoft wanted universal support for both 32bit and 64bit. All vendors were required to provide both to be certified by MS. Losers like HP did nothing, everyone knew this OS was coming for years. Yet that don't have drivers months after it is released. Companies like HP should be embarrassed with their pathetic support of their customers.

Remember people MS doesn?t write most of these drivers!!

Having worked for companies that write drivers.

Attempting to get Microsoft certification for anything is a tedious lengthy process that takes months to years to finish.

Microsoft's certification test suite is so full of bugs, errors, omissions, and complete garbage that it makes their OS look great.

With the changes made under the hood in Windows, written by Indian programmers hired by Microsoft, I can only imagine what a complete nightmare it would be to try to cert now. Server 2003 was the last OS I worked with and it was a nightmare trying to get drivers certified.

The blame rests squarely with Microsoft. They don't understand their own operating system well enough to offer vendor support for writing drivers. Or if you find a bug in their "precious" OS, they deny everything for 6 months to a year before they can fix them.

It's time to start looking at Linux again....


cs

Don't just blame Microsoft alone. Blame the vendors, your legislators for tugging on their strings for campaign contributions, and being wined and dined by their lofty and ****** and snobby lobbyist.

As to the countries that the programmers come from, blame the companies and your legislalors for that too. They make the dam laws and rules according to how much they get from these snobs.

As to the colleges who teach these people programming. 1. Tell the professors that they DO NOT BRING AN ENGLISH COMPOSITION 11 TEACHER INTO A PROGRAMMING CLASS EITHER TO HELP TEACH IT OR RUN THE LAB. THE ENGLISH TEACHER ONLY KNOWS HOW TO TEACH A STUDENT ONE THING. THAT IS HOW TO WRITE IN A WORD PROCESSOR APPLICATION A SYNOPSIS ABOUT THE RETURN OF THE NATIVE. THEY DID NOT GET A DEGREE IN COMPUTER SCIENCE. THEY GOT A DEGREE IN EDUCATION. A TRUE COMPUTER PROGRAMMING TEACHER WOULD KNOW A LOT ABOUT MATH AND SPECIFICALLY COMPUTER SCIENCE. A PROGRAMMING INSTRUCTOR SHOULD HAVE A DEGREE IN COMPUTER SCIENCE WITH A CONSENTRATION ON COMPUTER PROGRAMMING AND THE PROGRAMMING SHOULD BE IN ALL LANGUAGES AND IF THE PROGRAMMERS WORK IN THE UNITED STATES, THEY MUST DO THYE JOB IN ENGLISH. NOT THEIR NATIVE LANGUAGE. THE F WITH THE CONSTITUTION. IT IS JUST A BIG LAME EXCUSE.

ELECTED OFFICIALS, DO YOUR JOB. MAKE THESE COMPANIES HAVE COMPATABLE PROGRAMS AVAILABLE FOR THE NEW OPERATING SYSTEMS AND MAKE MICROSOFT FIX THEIR BUGS IN THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS. ANYONE WORKING THERE ILLEGALLY, ROUND THEM UP, PUT THEM IN CUFFS AND SEND THEM OFF TO JAIL OR BACK TO THEIR NATIVE LAND AND TELEVISE IT ON LIVE TV.

PRESIDENTS OF THE COLLEGES AND DEANS. DO YOUR JOB. BEFORE THE STUDENTS GRADUATE FROM ANY DEGREE PROGRAM IN YOUR UNIVERSITY OR COLLEGE, MAKE SURE THE STUDENTS LEAVE THERE WELL QUALIFIED TO DO THE JOB THAT THEY STUDIED FOR TO DO. THEIR GRADUATION PARTY FINAL EXAM SHOULD BE TO WRITE A PROGRAM AND FIX ANY BUGS THEY MADE IN IT, EVEN IF THEY DO NOT GET THEIR DEGREE FOR ANOTHER YEAR. NO PROGRAM. NO DEGREE. ALSO, MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THE PROFESSORS OR INSTRUCTORS ARE HIRED TO TEACH COMPUTER PROGRAMMING, TO TEST WHETHER THEY ARE FIT TO TEACH A COMPUTER CLASS, HAVE THEM DO A MAJOR COMPUTER CONVERSION FREE OF CHARGE AND THAT THEY MUST HAVE IT DONE BEFORE THE NEW FALL SEMESTER. IF THEY DO NOT. THEY DO NOT GET THE JOB AND THAN MAYBE, THEY FUDGED THEIR RESUMES AND SHOULD GO TO JAIL FOR PERJURY IF THEY ARE LYING ABOUT THEIR QUALIFICATIONS. THE SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR THE LAB ASSISTANTS IN A COMPUTER PROGRAMMING CLASS. ONE LAST WORD. IF THE PEOPLE ARE NOT FIT TO TEACH THE MAJOR, DON'T OFFER THE DEGREE PROGRAM IN IT. IF YOU DO, BE WILLING TO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES AND THAT MEANS LOOSING FUNDING FROM OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS FOR PUTTING ON A STELLER PERFORMANCE...FALSE ADVERTISEMENT AND LYING TO THE RECRUITS.

NO SWEET HEART DEALS. THE LAW IS THE LAW. QUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE QUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE QUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE QUALIFIED PROGRAMMER. AND UNQUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE UNQUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE UNQUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS.

I also agree that Microsoft is not to blame. The third party vendors have had ample time to upgrade their software, and some have. Why they are so slow to comply with the new requirements for Vista is beyond me....it only costs them sales. I'm not going to upgrade to Vista until the software is available and meanwhile I'm not going to upgrade or renew XP software update subscriptions. Let's see, what do you suppose these lazy vendors will do for sales in the meantime?

Microsoft makes its beta's and RC's available - so 3rd party companies can update their code to be within spec. Everyone ******* about Microsoft BUT they offer the single largest consortium of driver/hardward compatability on the market. That comes with a cost.

Either you understand having a long window (whether to resolve their issues OR give control companies time to refine/rewrite their code.) or not; the simple fact is Windows is huge and more like a quilt than an app, and you are not obligated to upgrade.

Apple seems nice becuase it has little issue with hardware, since it controls most of it - same with software. Hence why it makes little waves during upgrades. BUT I do remeber the cluster f**k OS X was to move too from previous versions.

Each OS has issues... Vista seems worse becuase of the shear numbers of install base.

I have Vista ultimate and business on 7 PC's and not one problem. Most are Dual Boot. One is on a Gateway Pentium 4 1.6GHz 1gb memory with a $29 5200 Nvidia graphics card with 128gb of memory. I stuck in a 120Western dig hard drive and loaded Vista Business on it. Rated 2.5 but is much faster and smoother than XPSP2. I have never had any luck at all upgrading. Not even from MCE04 to MCE05, home to Pro did not even work. I ended up with clean installs. If you guys are winning because you upgraded and nothing works right, You all should know better from previous builds. Somebody said that They wanted to use a PCI Express slot for a high end graphics card and blamed Vista for having to use a more powerfull power supply ??? I am sure your motherboard has a PCI slot that could handle a $29 Nvidia graphics card. My power supply in my Pentium 4 is like 250 watts. I do run a High End Graphics card in a PCI express slot but I also have a 600 watt power supply to run the High end card. I beta tested vista for over a year and know that most 3rd party venders are still behind the eight ball as far as producing good drivers for there product to run with Vista. Not microsofts fault at all.

i disagree its microsoft problem thay drop the ball not a vindor like hp , hp sold a product that work with windows xp and then microsoft made a product that doesnt work the hp product , so it microsoft problem for not making vist program correctly, its very simple