Windows Vista Bugs

I've worked for a number of major software companies in the past 20 years up to and including Microsoft in the early 90's. As a matter of fact, we were using mostly Gateway systems at that time and had nothing but problems with them. I have never used or recommended one since. All companies have their share of problems, even yours.

As a tech specialist, you should have known from the start that these days 512MB will get you nowhere fast. I just checked the side of my Vista Ultimate box and it states 1GB as a minimum and it does in fact run on 1GB. Although I have suffered a few crashes (2 or 3), I have yet to see a BSOD.

As for individuals installing an OS on their own, no matter who makes it, they will eventually have a few problems. As I'm sure you know, NO OS is completely bug free regardless of the manufacturer. If a person doesn't have a reasonably high skill level with computers, installing a new OS on top of an existing one should only be done by a professional -- period.

I got a copy of Vista for my daughter's Dell laptop the other day and decided to look at the install disks on my desktop first. First thing that comes up is a little program it wants to install called upgrade advisor. It then identified the potential hardware and software problems. There were enough identified for me to know that I am not ready to move to Vista on my desktop. I checked out the manufacturers' site in a couple cases and they confirmed they didn't have the necessary driver support but were working on it. I will give the manufacturers time to catch up. XP is actually working pretty good for me so I see no burning need to spend money for a switch at this time anyway.

I know alot of software problems will spawn from folks upgrading to vista but lets all aim the hose at the clowns whos products are not upgraded to work with vista instead of MS.

You are quite right, they are all missing the point. I used to run Windows 98. Because of the cortailment of Microsoft support, I deemed it necessary to upgrade. I did not want XP. I went instead for Windows 2000. I upgrade my machine, went to Pentium 4 and all sorts of other upgrades. In fact it was a new computer etc. Cut to the shorts... When Windows Vista came out , there was a "have a look and see" check your machine whether it will take this new Vista etc., Well I tried and the responce was "Get a new machine" This is a money spin. Microsoft have been out witted by all and sundry. of course they don't like it. Why change to Vista? What has Vista got that We Need?? There are loads of things on our machines that we don't even know about and probably don't even know how to look for them. If W2000 looses the Microsoft support, - as I expect within the next 18mths or so - then I - for one - shall go away from Microsoft and look to those companys that offer long term support to their users.
"Can you see Microsoft and BG falling apart because of my actions?!!!!"
Look on the funny side of life, it's moving too fast as it is.

this may be what is annoying so many people, under the skin. They might not even have realized that it isnt about the bugs, it isnt about the non-backwards compatiblity, it isnt about the propietariness of Vista. Its about no longer having a choice.

XP works fine. Its an older program, however, and in a few years, will no longer be supported by Microsoft. The only reason I switched from ME to XP is because IT was no longer supported by Microsoft. In a few years, and we know this, we will get notices from MS saying hey, guess what...

and when you go for tech support that nice little Indian man in Djarkta will tell you as he did me, "we are not even allowed to discuss this with you, since your os is no longer supported by us. thank you, and have a nice day."

And then you will realize that is really IS about lack of choice. And that's scary.

You most certainly *have* been given a choice. You made the choice when you bought the new PC which logically is going to be preloaded with Vista. Who is going to sell more new PCs after all: the retailer whose system is preloaded with XP or the guy whose hardware all feature Vista as the OS? Hardware retailers are out to make money just the same as the company who makes the OS running on it.

*If* you chose not to do your research prior to purchasing the new system (hmmm, my camera is 4 years old, I'm going to be using a brand new OS which may not have legacy drivers, what to do?) then you deserve the headaches. It comes down to a choice: Are you prepared to possibly have to upgrade the camera if need be? Is it financially feasible? Or does the camera perfectly do every single thing you want it to and you're content sitting where you are?

I personally take control of my system, what's on it and everything I plug into it. If software isn't a big deal and I'm willing to sacrifice the risk to be running the latest OS, I make that choice. If the old photo editor or virus suite or what have you doesn't gel with the new OS I've chosen, I look for a newer version. Or I go with a different manufacturer who offers similar features in a product compatible with said OS. I don't moan and whine here in a forum about how MS should've had everything perfect so that some 16-bit legacy app or 12-year-old dot matrix printer that I just can't bear to part with will run seamlessly. That's not shame on MS or their product, that's shame on *you* for being too naive to face reality. The finger of blame points right back at the consumer in these matters. If someone is gullible enough to think they can bring a new system home, set it up & start loading & plugging whatever they want and not expect problems, they have no business near a computer.

Message was edited by: admin

First, congratulations to simelane on one of the more literate postings.

This really has to do with Micro$oft's arrogance. They are going to do what they want, period. They still operate under the "might is right" mind set and haven't changed their predatory ways, either. They seem to have learned nothing from their slap on the wrist by the government.

You have to hand it to them, though. Micro$oft is one of the few companies prospering with a succession of inferior products.

In case you haven't noticed Microsoft, Dell, E-Machines, HP and everyone else is forcing Vista on unsuspecting purchasers. Yes, you can get XP if you know that Vista sucks and push them hard enough.

Bottom line... if Microsoft is going to force Vista on us and make us pay for it then they had better have it ready for prime-time!

I beta tested Vista and realized real quick that it was real cute but was basically XP on steroids and without any hardware support. Yeah, i know... "the kernel is more secure"... well, my XP machine's kernel works just fine and my machine is secure (using totally free antivirus software by the way).

Microsoft has ticked off a LOT of people with Vista and they're going to be doing a LOT of damage control.

Ulara, has a good point. The reality is that MS, HP, etc. can care less if my old printer and scanner won't work with Vista.
They won't to sell us all new equipment.
It's our choice to decide if we can live without the latest version of Windows or peripherals, or be satisfied with XP until they get it right.
For me it's a no brainer.

Microsoft is fully responsible for the backwards compatability of it's current OS releases. The code exists from all earlier versions of windows to be inserted into Vista.

Microsoft are Robber Barons... plain and simple. If you missed the earlier reference about The U.S. Courts vs. Microsoft, and MS being guilty, then maybe you need to do a data search and read the Court transcripts. I am one of the tens of thousands that Microsoft has yet to send the awarded settlement checks for thier blatant sabotage of my computer via a data-bomb on thier update site that corrupted my computer's registry, crashed every MS program integrated with my Windows 98 a year ago, and forced me to purchase an unwanted OS upgrade.

I had tried XP prior to this incident, didn't like it... went back to my trusty Win98, and was quite content. That was until MS posted bulletins stating that they would no longer support updates for any OS prior to thier 2003-2004 software, and warned that I should purchase an update to the (still unwanted) XP. I am utterly tech savvy, and have stripped out and refit my computer with the latest hardware (Motherboard, Soundcards, Graphics Cards, Burners, and HDD)every 4 to 6 months as needed.

One day my computer receives an automatic update alert from Microsoft, connects to the site... and wham! My OS is kaput. I erase the HD, reformat the partitions, and reinstall the OS (fortunately all of my work and files were already backed up for that week). Win98 will not reinstall due to error messages from the Registry ?!?

A week later I spend $300 for Win2K Pro (you can't make me use XP), reformat my drive again, and perform a clean install. It works, and within a month I learn of MS losing it's case in Court under charges of Raqueteering. The updates are reinstated at the site for all of MS OS prior to XP, and financial restitution is offered to all of us once loyal supporters.

They did it once, and they may be trying it again. There is never an excuse for a company that has existed for so long, to blatantly ignore the issue of backwards compatability for thier new OS. XP had special tools to emulate Win2k or Win98, when certain 3rd party softwares had compatibilty problems... so they are not unaware of thier previous shortcomings. And on the note about the Shareholders... blind-siding your customers, or strong-arming them to upgrade, only hurts thier profits when they destroy the trust of thier customer base, because, "Guess what?" profit shares come from consumer purchases.

Microsoft has NO responsibility to try and maintain an OS just so people can run programs over 5 years old and it's absurd to expect them to. They have to create an OS that'll take advantage of the new hardware and software programs that are to come and they need to do it in a way that isn't a massive mess of code. Otherwise they're have to sell Vista Hard drives rather than DVDs.

Ok, so what you got right now works for you... But the companies who spend tens of thousands of dollars a year to buy and maintain these programs want and NEED an operating system that can make more efficient use of dual core processors, new graphics accelerators, and more than likely... 64-bit processors and IPv6. In the next coming years things are going to move extremely fast and computer infrastructure is changing in a radically different way. And their responsibility relies on being able to do that. It stands to reason why Vista is so radically different, I would be pissed beyond belief if it was just a repackaged XP.

With that said, as said countless times the Vista Beta was available for months; at least since August 2006 for the general public beta. For developers it was probably earlier. There's massive number of companies and products out there and you can't possible expect Microsoft to provide support for things that they didn't develop.

Furthermore at this point in time you DO have a choice on whether or not you want Vista, I know for a fact that they're still selling XP PCs that are "Vista Capable".

And one last point... Microsoft doesn't really make all that much money off of their Operating Systems; they're biggest source of income is actually the MS Office Suite. Yes they do make money off of OSes, but what they really care about is control of the market. And for them, that's worth spending what's speculated to be at least $10 BILLION to develop it.

I plan on staying with XP for a good long time, Microsoft is going to actively support it till 2011.

There are programs from last year that wont run in Vista. What the heck are you talking about from 5 years ago. M$ had an obligation to develop Vista so that anything that would run under XP, would still run under Vista. As someone else mentioned, if M$ really wanted to be the leader of the pack, they would have seen to this.

I am reading all these posts of people saying that their software is 5 years old, or I have had computer X for Z years. Well maybe vista isn't right for these people right now. Windows is not giving up on XP yet, there are still critical updates being sent out and it is still supported. However, For those of us who needed to upgrade to a new system and feel cheated that Company Y, even though they install Vista, do not have supported drivers for their hardware, is where I have the issue. I should not have to look through my Cd's to find XP and reinstall my operating system on an out of the box system. These companies tout that their computer is "Vista Ready" when they themselves are not Vista Ready.

I am not an expert in any of this. However, one of the developers of a software program I have that is not compatible with Vista stated that they were not yet given all they needed from Microsoft to make the software compatible. They further stated that it would be the end of March before they received all they needed to make their software compatible.
I am left to guess who is right, Microsoft or software developers.

I am certain your software developer (3rd party vendor) is telling the truth. Microsoft does not give these developers an open source to work with so they rely heavily on MS to give them what they need to make their software run on the Microsoft OS (whatever its current iteration). These software developers have no incentive to delay their "fixes" so that their software will run properly on Vista.

Don't forget, Vista is not another piece of software, it's the Operating System! Imagine having to buy a new engine for your car every 5 years and then finding out your radio doesn't work anymore or your windows won't roll down (pun not intended).

Now imagine that the radio manufacturer doesn't have the secret schematics to that new engine and must ask the engine manufacturer for help. But the engine manufacturer may have a competing product or they are working on that next new engine you'll need in 5 years (whether you need it or not). Do you think these other companies are at the top of the list for help? Probably not.

I don't plan on "upgrading" my OS to Vista unless I'm forced to. With any luck, by then, I'll be looking for a Mac.

Mac is doing the same thing. They are in the business of selling their product. Once they both understand that they cannot do it all and begin to work together, then things will be better. The regulator's zeal to maintain a level playing field is causing some problems however. It is like letting a high school graduate go straight to the pros. Some will make it and some will not, but if you regulate that they cannot not talk about it, everyone loses. Some software and device manufacturers are like the high schoolers that won't make it.

I bought the 2007 version of Office and is perfectly compatible with XP. Why this is true and not the other way? Aren't drivers only applicable to hardware not software?
Software shall be gradually improved thru the years, not a jump in evolution in one shot. I don't think birds evolved from dinosaurs overnight.

Its highly unlikely that any commercial vendor will just "give" their entire source code to engineers for every software company that exists and I'd be horrified if they did... Windows is the most used OS in the world and the one with the most viruses coming out for it... It'd only be a matter of time before that source fell into the hands of people with malicious intent. (Or with what they're more concerned about, cloning their operating system.)

Windows does not need to be made any LESS secure, they already struggle with that enough. With that said, its not like Microsoft has a special site that has developer tools for Vista or anything... Oh, wait yes it does.

Personally I'd much prefer that all the radical changes come up front rather than requiring that I install a massive service pack that is essentially a new OS a few months later... But that's just me.

I'm not exactly Microsoft's number one fan, but I think there's more than enough blame to go around. Plus, the fact that a new Windows OS doesn't work perfectly out of the box isn't exactly unprecedented... I can't even remember if that's ever happened. ALWAYS wait a few months before buying any new OS, there are always bugs waiting to be discovered. I'm not at all surprised by these issues, same thing happened with XP SP2 and so on...

Then again, I'm in the process of switching over to linux so it doesn't really effect me and XP is good enough for whatever I can't do on there. =P

I have no doubt at all that Microsoft is largely to blame.

They knew full well that there were going to be problems with software and hardware compatibility and so they should have put extra effort in getting the appropriate information out to the relevant companies. Instead they have done the opposite if all the reports are true - and I believe them.

Almost every time Microsoft have released a new operating system, and sometimes even just upgrades, there have been compatibility problems. In the past there have been accusations that they have deliberately changed code to make some programs (like Wordperfect) inoperable.

I have no intention of upgrading to Vista for quite some time even though I am usually an early user of new versions of software. This time, NO!

As anyone who followed the painful Longhorn process, the problem isn't for lack of trying. Their (highly skilled, BTW) developers fought for years to make the pig fly, as they said. They fought an uphill battle entrenched in an outdated development process.

Eventually they failed. Allchin (sp?) went to Gates repeatedly, asking to scrap the Longhorn code, because the process just wouldn't carry trough. Eventually real life proved him right, and he was authorized to start the entire development process anew. That was a crunch, as deadlines had been obliberated en masse, and they needed to ship the new product as fast as humanly possible.

They succeded. In shipping, that is. Getting all developers on board and getting all the loose stuff in order dinn't play out that well.

MeThinks the whole 'big bang' approach to OS releases is broken. If your basic stuff is OK (and computer science is well advanced in this field), only adjustments should be needed. If your core is broken, you have a problem. A real problem, even for a software giant. I'm not sure which is the case here, if the XP core was basically good enough, but the big bang thing, the ad campaign etc. rings a bit hollow.

With the successor for Vista scheduled for 2009, the incentive to upgrade an existing XP-based computer is minimal. MS also just guaranteed a long lifetime for XP (was that 2014?) I'll stick to my (XP) guns.

I lay this right at the vendors feet. They knew VISTA was coming out, they had plenty of time to get ready. Their excuse with other OS's was that Microsoft was the OS of choice. Well, they are showing that they arent even willing to support that operating system.

Us that use multiple operating systems(I use FreeBSD also) have had this issue with drivers for a LONG TIME. Again, THIS IS ALL THE VENDORS FAULT.

Dan

In the fulture, all who write about Micro$oft should use the dollar sign when typing. I understand that Mico$oft is a for profit company, but when they screw up (like window ME); they should have given a discount for ME user's to up grade to XP. As a new computer user, I did not know that all of the problems with $1400 Dell were because of ME. When I upgraded to XP my outdated computer worked better then ever! I do not know how many people have MSN, but I got one year free when I got my Dell. I did not know any better so I keep it. When MSN 8 was released, I install it and my computer all but shut down! I no longer use MSN and I never even thought about upgrading to vista. I know Micro$oft's track record on new software (ME & MSN. I will never trust Micro$oft again!

I agree partially with you about your blast of microsoft. They do not make sure there products are at least stable enought for release to the public. They do have to answer to their shareholders, perhaps a bad point to going public with a company.

The point where I do not agree is the fact that there are a few companies that were leading the way for the vista launch like ROXIO, they had an update for media creator 9 as soon as vista came out. Look at LEXMARK, EPSON, and ATI

LEXMARK has no specific date when drivers will be available for some of their printers and they have drivers available for other printers.

EPSON for the most part has provided drivers for their printers. At the release of WINDOWS VISTA they had almost no drivers available but they have gotten their act together.

ATI has no software available for their video cards that have tv tuners built in. They said they do not know when they will have software for the tv tuners. They do however have drivers available for the video cards.

I suppose there are a long list of third party hardware manufacturers that have not gotten with the program and have not released or are not working on compatible updates.

DON"T BLAME MICROSOFT TOTALLY.

Without Microsoft, where will we be today? I don't know if you notice that a lot of software companies come up with a newer version of their softwares everytime Microsoft comes out with a new OS. Do you know why? They want a piece of the pie. I would not put the blame on Microsoft. It is not microsoft's responsibility to fix incompatibilities with the third party older version softwares. Why are the third party software companies not standing by their older versions and create a patch to solve a problem? The answer is MONEY. If they don't provide a patch, what will the consumers do? Of course, buy a newer version. Don't blame microsoft for bringing new technology into this world. We have to move forward and not stop improving just because.........

I'm a software developer and an MSDN subscriber. The Vista SDKs & DDKs have been available for over a year now. The first ones I received were still codenamed "Longhorn". If you can't recode a driver or a software title in that length of time you have other issues. Especially since the W32 kernel hasn't changed that much and most revisions are about security and working with the new GUI. We do software apps. and making them Vista compatible wasn't that big of a deal. Maybe the hardware guys are having a harder time. We are where we are today because Gates' philosophy from the beginning has been "Code like there are no hardware restrictions, they'll catch up soon". That's why MS got out front early and stayed there.

You know, I normally do not post on here but do review occasionally discussion threads. I finally have to say something about people complaining about Microsoft and in particular Vista. For years I have heard people complaining about Microsoft instead of some, if not many of these third party vendors who drag their feet developing drivers for an operating system that they know was coming out and still did nothing or very little about it.

Case in point. I just recently bought an ASUS A8N-E motherboard just recently, as well as a e-GeForce 7300 GS (256MB) video card, and 2GB of RAM, so that I could build a Vista Business computer and use it to its full potential. Hence the reason for the large video vcard and extra memory. I knew this going in because I was beta testing it for a while, as well. Now, as well of a reputation that ASUS supposedly has in motherboard technology they have dropped the ball with me. I discovered that the onboard sound did not work because ASUS "told me" that they have still yet to develop a sound driver for Vista as of this time, for this particular board. I will also tell you though, that if I use the Windows XP driver, it works. ASUS or any other manufacturer is quick to want to sell some Vista compatible motherboard that cost an arm and a leg at a price that most people do not want to pay. My next question back to them was, "and how long have you known about Microsoft Vista"? They did not reply back yet. So my point is, they are dropping the ball because they want to sell you some overly expensive motherboard instead of providing good customer service with a motherboard that is not very old. I?ll switch back to MSI after this.

I should also tell you that I own my own computer consulting business and like many of you, you have to deal with home and small business customers who want to blame Microsoft for being evil and not making things easier on them. To begin with, most home users have no clue on how to maintain their systems (Windows diagnostics tools built in the O/S), let alone how to use their computers. If it wasn?t for Microsoft and even Apple, most people known as home users would not be in existence to begin with. In other words, we would still primarily depending on mainframe computers at the big companies.

So in my closing let me just say, quit your complaining and quite being so cheap when it comes to upgrading your computers. If you choose to buy the latest and greatest software and even hardware, you are going to have to upgrade because technology is moving forward, not backwards. If you do not like Microsoft then quit continually buying their operating systems and other software applications. At least they provide update sites and alternative solutions/work arounds. This also goes for the technicians that work on it. Find another job, if you don?t like it or support other manufacturer?s software/hardware where they give you all the answers and you don't have to use your brain.

By the way, my Vista Business computer runs great and so far I have no complaints about the O/S at all. As a matter of fact, I absolutely love it. Maybe, that is because I and a few others out there know what we are doing. Home users and businesses need to hire people who know what they are doing instead of trying to do it themselves, when they are not even qualified.

it's ridiculous that you blame microsoft for third pary applications. The reason "other" systems (mac) don't have as many problems is becuase they want to own and touch everything and if they can't then they won't allow you to use 3rd party software. This is the result of an open operating system, vista, and a closed operating system, mac os. i don't like evil empires either but last i checked apple is winning that title 3 to 1 (using the iPhone name without permission, suing interns, not licensing software). i never thought i'd go to bat for microsoft but you know what, i applaud them for allowing 3rd parties to have access to the software and create new and innovative applications so i have a choice no matter what i do. it is entirely up to the solutions providers to upgrade their software for compatibilies for anything else (mac, pc, handhelds, phones etc).

To be Microsoft approved and especially Microsoft Vista approved, the companies first and foremost must offer "Tribute" as well as be compatible.

Remember this is the company that not only approved but endorsed Starforce Copy Protection Software. Is there any question at all?

When I downloaded IE7 and found out Microsoft forgot completely about FTP access...is that the fault of FTP sites? Most everyone that pays for high speed internet has paid for their "personal web space" or FTP site. It is inaccessible with IE7, unless the user feels confident fooling around with the registry.

Release first, fix later. What's new?

As far as choice...most schools and most businesses still require Microsoft's OS' and software. Open Office will not do, Microsoft's Office (with ususally XP) is required. Not to mention the requirements of many ISPs.

Those that think there is a choice are deluding themselves. Microsofted PCs have more versatility and more options simply because Microsoft controls the market, and the courts.

If anyone can remember the lawsuits of almost seven years ago, including a class action suit brought about by several states, with a huge mountain of evidence against Microsoft...and how Microsoft wriggled out of it, knows that MS plays dirty and wins. That in turn makes life a little harder on all of us.

marf

If i remember right when xp came out the was a with problem with the soft ware hare ware comptablity. why woulkld this be any different. microsoft is in bussness to make money and we have the choise to buy of not to buy. Someime you must say when is enought is enought money but not once have i heard about mcdonald have a free day either!

Yeah the "truth hurts".

Do I blame Microsoft, yes but,,,, Microsoft is just part of the ?Racket?.

Vista, no I am not going to Vista. Not anytime soon if ever. I started with Windows 3.1
many computers ago. Before that it was a Commodore 128 for making computer home
video titles and video labels. The machine I am using now has XP. (Wife?s bare bone
computer.)

My wife has told me for many years ?it is all a racket?.

Buy this new computer, this new add-on card and this new software and be happy ever
after.

Not the way it has worked for me. The most expensive computer was the SCSI (about 3
computers ago) with Windows 98 SE and a Miro DC30 card for video.

Next was a Windows 2000 machine with a DV500 DVD card and Adobe Premiere 6.0.
That WAS a good computer. About as close to what I ever wanted that I could have been
satisfied with it from now on.

Windows service pack 4 messed it up big time. The Co. that made the DV 500 card and
Adobe were still on fair terms and they finally came up with software that worked for
awhile. A few more Windows patches and it killed the computer again. Today, the DV
500 board has to be removed from the computer so it will load Windows 2000. No
DV500 board --- I don?t need the #$%^ computer. Adobe and the makers of the DV500
card apparently are no longer working together. The software currently available for
download crashes the machine. The local computer repair shop guy grins from ear to ear
when he sees me coming. $$$$$$

I have had to keep the old SCSI computer with Windows 98 SE for a program that will
let me use 3DS files for 3D video titles made from 3D models that I have modeled in
AutoCAD. It locks up XP and would not run on Windows 2000. It is a unique program,
only a few were ever made before the Co. went out of business.

I am told that had I been using a Mac that this would not have happened. I would still be
able to use software from earlier machines in the later Mac machines. My son, daughter
in law, my boss, and one friend have all gone Mac, I may be next. I am on the fence.

By the way, I now agree with my wife, ?it is a racket?. Microsoft is a part of that racket,
the main part, the head honcho of it.

Just don?t tell her,,, I agree that she was right all along.

Ross