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General discussion

Windows Vista Bugs

Feb 12, 2007 3:26AM PST

I have been a faithful Windows user since 3.0 and I really though that nothing could be worse than Windows ME. Vista in the early stages is worse. Windows ME had its problems, but you could get support/help from 3rd party vendors. Upgrading to Vista has been a real challenge... and I feel like I'm walking through this maze all alone. So many software and hardware items don't work with Vista and third party vendors have not developed a fix yet. Virus protection... No, AOL security... NO, ATT security suite... No. Problems that were none existent yesterday are here today. The drivers for my video card, cd-rom drive and D-link usb adapter worked yesterday. Now, nothing but problem messages. I've always fought the good PC vs. MAC fight and found the MAC commercials to be amusing. But, I've never given thought to joining the MAC legions until now. If Vista wasn't ready for a release that would be seamless for the upgrade crowd, It should have been noted. And the Vista Advisor is another matter for another conversation. Why give the green light to a system for upgrade and then present you with a different reality post upgrade?

Discussion is locked

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lemons
Mar 16, 2007 11:53AM PDT

Everybody makes a lemon once in a while. You must have had bad hardware. Did it get fixed for you?

That sucks that you had bad luck with their support. It's difficult to be forgiving of a company when that crap happens. I have never owned a Mac, but like a said, everyone I have ever known that has one will not move away from the platform, although some of them have a PC also.

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Not just once in a while.
Mar 19, 2007 9:22AM PDT

G4 notebooks - heat issues, logic boards tend to fail

G5 iMacs - widespread logic board failures. Warranty extension for SOME logic board issues, but not others. Defective replacement logic boards not covered (I found out the hard way). Apple never really solved these problems during the short, bitter life of the G5 products. The power management setup in the logic boards was way more susceptible to hardware faults than those of comparable PC systems. Classic case of over-engineering.

Intel Macbooks - famous heat issues (some warped chassis as a result) and famous "random shutdown syndrome." Firmware fix for said problem created new power management issues.

Overall decline in component and build quality in recent years. Performance demands of the Mac platform are too easily not met by Mac hardware, resulting in susceptibility to failure from hardware faults. That is the definition of overengineering. The advantage of the relatively crude PC platform is that is is relatively robust and fault-tolerant with respect to hardware performance.

I'm using Vista now on good-quality hardware, no problem for a heads-up user. I have no regrets switching back away from Mac.

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At last someone who isnt afraid to be true
Mar 19, 2007 9:33AM PDT

At last, someone who is not afraid to say Apple are at fault as well. Too many people these days are like "oh Apple are this, oh, Apple are that" and its like pffft, GO AWAY.

I like Windows XP, and wont be changing, no matter how many arrogant Macinsplosh know-alls try to convince me to break the bank in order to move to a system I wont even need or want. Happy

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Wrong CAMP
Mar 17, 2007 1:38PM PDT

You may know many Mac Users who love Macs, and the issues being discussed here isnt about comparing with the MACS... derrrr? I love MAcs, and I use both Macs and PCs... and I experience the daily differences in operation, but until you do use both as tools you will never understand the concept of universal compatibility (cause MAcs are not) and flexibility... and PCs are in some cases... Without boring everyone with the PC vs Macs camps scenario... it is VISAT that currently requires some revelation... and so suggetsing that you throw away your PC just because the new VISTA has caused some serious problems, isnt an option everyone has... rich boy?

I have a cupboard full of older Macs, though I could throw abuse at them, it isnt the point, so please just try to be practical when you join these threads? Not everyone has tons of dosh to spare - like the other guy who simply said.... I had a problem with my tuner card after I installed the Vista O.S.... no problem I replaced that.... Huh?! My money doesnt grow on trees, maybe his comes off the press in the back room... so much as I would like another Mac.... it aint helpful - ok? And how many apps can you count that are written for Macs.... when you have finished counting, you can begin to count the ones written for PCs, then make that comparison... oh and there's at least a few alternative providors when in the PC camp... alternative providers for Mac Apps... whats that? I dont think they exist - for very good rerasons... no alternative software vendor is stupid enough to enter the marketplace, because there just isnt enough people to buy it... hence the continuous saga of more expensive for the same app in a Mac version

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Vista compatible

You said you were not having problems with compatability.I have arcsoft photoimpressions 5. How do I make it compatible? I've tried everything. Please help. I have a"Gateway-vista,GM5420"
Thank you.

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Arcsoft
Mar 19, 2007 9:36AM PDT

Have you tried the Arcsoft website for Vista compatibility upgrades? I was able to use that resource to upgrade an XP version of PhotoStudio to work with Vista. Hope this helps.

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GENE 5746
Mar 17, 2007 9:44AM PDT

OMG - Finally someone who thinks like I do! If you want to keep the same computer you have - AND EVERYTHING WORKS FINE - Why on Earth would you change the operating system? As many people said - "It all worked fine yesterday" and then - I went and changed the foundation of my operating environment - BY CHOICE - and now it doesn't work anymore! Hmmmm - who's to blame here - the guy who wrote the program, or the guy who put it into a system knowing that you didn't have one designed to run the OS? I don't know - but I'm recommending to everyone that didn't buy a computer designed for Vista to stick with XP. I also recommend that people who have a computer running Win98 not upgrade to XP - BECAUSE THEIR SYSTEM WONT RUN IT! You want all the latest bells and whistles - buy a system designed to use them, otherwise you are not really judging the system you want on a fair scale.

-Christian

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Why does the computer have to be new?
Mar 18, 2007 2:18AM PDT

Why does the computer have to be new to use the new operating system? That is about like saying if you change the brand of gas on your car, you have to get a whole new car!

No this smells shades of HDTV. Now to use TV you have to get a whole TV! Does this sound familiar? Microsoft says, "Hmmm, lets just devise a new operating system that is not compatible with any hardware and if it is, it would be just by luck and force people to buy new computers and new hardware!" How would like it if all of a sudden Whirlpool decided to change their washers to 220 volts, don't laugh it is possible. Now you have to hire an electrician to run a 220 volt line to your washer. Would that make you happy? I do not think so!!!!!!

Not only is it stupid of Microsoft to do that, it is not that much better then WindowsXP and it certainly doesn't warrant the $400.00 + price tag for Ultimate and we can get a legit copy for WindowsXP for about $128.00 and that includes postage and handling.

Nope sorry don't agree with you, it is Microsoft's fault. If you can not put out a decent product, then don't release it. This with Microsoft of bigger, better and more bloated and expensive has got to stop because eventually people are going to go someplace else and eventual Billy Boy's fortune won't be worth Sh*t!!!!!

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(NT) WOW! please accept a cigar :-) well said!!
Mar 17, 2007 9:25PM PDT
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Agree - Microsoft is not to blame.
Mar 18, 2007 3:25AM PDT

There is a lot of ?ME? in this post but a lot of truth also. I?m all for progress, more features and more capable hardware but some people are being caught in a situation where they have to replace a failed computer and the only replacement comes with Vista preinstalled. As the many post on this subject point out much of the old hardware and software isn?t compatible with Vista. I sell computers and other electronics for a major retailer and many of my customers can?t afford to replace all their hardware and software at one time. My advice to customers who ask has been to wait at least 6 months to upgrade to Vista, if possible, and to check with their third party software and hardware manufacturers about Vista compatibility. All manufactures should have this information available on their web pages and through their telephone support. More compatibility information supplied with new computers (on the outside of the box) that include Vista would be very helpful to these folks

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Where do you come from?
Mar 19, 2007 8:44PM PDT

Man, you're like 1/10 of 1 percent of the computer using world! How many people need to go out and set up a RAID for their personal data? That's just overkill for literally 98% of the personal computing world. Sure, it's nice for people like you to be able to go out and spend money by the bucket on nice new $h#%, but most of us out here don't have chamber pots full of cash to go tossing at manufactures/developers looking to cash in on the new crap coming out of MS! The simple fact is that most of us just want the stability and security we should have had in the first place, but because MS is just a money-grubbing operation with little or no concern for the casual end-user, we get crap for our trouble.

The incompatibilities between Office 2003 and Vista are prefect examples of the problems inherent in MS products to begin with. Do you really think that it's coincidental that they come out with both Vista and Office 2007 at the same time? Sure, Office 2003 is old, and sure they have put new stuff in 2007. However, if you don't need or don't want that new stuff, you shouldn't be forced into buying it just because their old stuff isn't compatible with the new OS!

Furthermore, what Vista is doing isn't that damn new! In fact, the Mac OS X Tiger has been doing almost everything Vista is doing for more than a year now. As a new Mac convert (was an old Mac user, back in the day, but went to PC in '96 because everywhere I worked used PC and I had to convert to be able to work wherever I needed--that and my Mac was four years old), I can tell you from experience that Vista isn't really that special. When I installed it on my wife's laptop, I was literally laughing out loud as I went through all the "new" features--they were, literally, function-for-function identical copies of what Mac has already done: Vista's "gidgets?", meet Mac "widgets"; that annoying security feature that asks you for permission to pick its nose, already in Mac but in a far less annoying manner.

The fact of the matter is that MS has been "copying" Mac in some form or another since the late 1980s. When Jobs and Wozniak came up with and implemented the idea for the GUI, it was Gates that said the GUI would never amount to anything, that it wouldn't be anything of interest to the power-user, who was going to be the only market for "real" computers and software. A decade later, MS comes out with Windows, and everything is nothing but a poor copy of what Mac already had (and I was a Mac user at this time, so I was in a position to know the difference), except that the "trash" in Mac was already copyright protected, forcing Gates to adopt the PC (politically correct) "recycle bin" for his OS (and din't everyone who knew nothing of Mac think that MS was so forward thinking because of that one little detail).

If you really want something that an end-user at any level can appreciate, then switch to a Mac. You really won't be disappointed, and when you go to set up your home network, your peripherals, and all your other little gadgets, you'll actually be pleasantly surprised when you find that they all work flawlessly on a Mac with no need to worry about drivers and no need to install software to make them work with the Mac! And for those of you who are just not willing to give up your PC, spend a little more (which I know is asking a lot since a Mac is already pricey, but believe me when I say that you won't be disappointed) for the 250GB hard drive on the Mac and just install XP on a separate partition on your Intel-based Mac! You can literally have two computers in one, and it will function flawlessly (except when you actually go over to XP, though the Mac architecture is definitely more sound than any PC, which should give you some additional benefit in terms of mitigating the problems inherent in any MS product).

You see, the truth is, if you want to spend money, spend $3000 on a Mac and put your beloved XP on it. Then you can use both and fairly evaluate which is better. You don't need to spend a minimum of $100-$500 for a RAID card and then an additional $2000+ for the RAID drive just to store your personal data, for a frickin' drive, which doesn't even begin to address the cost of the computer!

Microsoft dropped the ball, plain and simple. This company has a track record of not working with all developers to ensure that they have access to the new OS code in time to develop proper software/hardware solutions for the upgrade consumer. Furthermore, they rarely do anything to ensure that their new products are backward compatible with their old ones, something you'll NEVER find with an Apple computer. To this day, the only compatibility issues you'll have with Macs are the ones you'll encounter should you try to use an older piece of software with the new Intel hardware, an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence of moving the a new architecture. However, even in these cases, most software developers or 3rd party geeks are currently working on patches and fixes that will make older programs universal--at the very least, software developers are offering upgrade pricing to customers so that they can get a universal Mac application for a reduced cost. The Mac crowd does this all the time, and they do it because they want to adhere to the highest standards to ensure that the little end-user who doesn't have cash-filled mattresses to sleep on will still have a rewarding and beneficial experience when using their computers.

Those of us who don't spend $10,000 on a computer system still deserve to have something that is stable, secure, and reliable 99.9% of the time. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that there aren't programs that don't have problems on the Mac. On the contrary, Firefox has crashed three times while I was writing this post (I was trying to do something in another tab at the same time and kept hitting a glitch), but I was able to "force quit" the program and then instantly restart it, where I was then allowed to "restore" my previous session and recover everything I was working on, including every letter of this post even though I never saved it in any form or fashion. If that's not stability, if that's not the ultimate in user-friendliness, then I just don't know what is.

Had I been using XP, I would have doubtless had to restart my computer because the one little program would have locked up the whole thing. with my Mac, though, I've had this up and running continuously since my last software update, which was 2 days, 5 hours, and 12 minutes ago as of the second I'm writing this. I've actually had the computer running continuously for more than two weeks, only restarting because of software updates! I challenge any of you PC users to make the same claim, and not when using a $10,000 computer! The fact is, you won't ever be able to do it.

Microsoft's OS aren't made to run continuously. If you don't restart from time to time, your programs slow down and the whole system becomes sluggish and unresponsive. Mac, on the other had, just keeps on truckin'. These things are actually made to never be turned off (Apple actually does a pretty good job of hiding the "power" button on most of its computers, making it nearly impossible to find in some cases, meaning that Apple wants you to know that you don't have to treat this computer like a PC--in fact, the reason I can tell you my "uptime" on the Mac OS X is because there is a little widget available that tells me just how long I've been up and running; oh, and while I'm at it, I should also say that with a standard battery on the MacBook Pro I've been running without an issue for more than three hours now, something I'd never have been able to do on my Sony Vaio running its wireless adaptor, even though it has Centrino technology).

The sad fact is that you're just the smallest fraction of end-users out there, which is why developers just aren't thinking of you. I know this must make you feel left out, depressed, on the verge of a breakdown, but at least you don't have to suffer with inferior products like the rest of us poor slobs. Sure, I had to fork over some dough for my shiny new Mac, and it definitely hurt to do it. Do I have any regrets? Not on your life! I'm so happy with this computer I can't begin to express it in words. Simply put, I've learned again what I knew years ago--Apple is the leader while Microsoft is the follower; Apple is the visionary, while Microsoft is the blind beggar (a damn rich beggar, but a beggar for developmental sloppy seconds nonetheless).

The commercials are more than amusing; they're true! Out of the box, Macs are ready to roll, charged battery and all! And the second you power up, you won't shut down unless you've just installed software updates that require you to do so. Furthermore, within a short time of turning your computer on, you'll actually be up and running with your network, your printer, your scanner, your digital camera, your PDA or smartphone, your iPod, and any of your other USB or Firewire devices (and yes, you actually have USB ports and two types of Firewire built-in to every Mac)! Try that with a PC!

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i agree but you are missing something
Mar 14, 2007 2:46PM PDT

Microsoft can not wait for every hardware and software manufacturer to ensure compatibility with the next version of windows. They are in business to make money. Even though they have a huge market share they still have shareholders to answer to. Everyone needs to realize business is business. If microsoft was supposed to wait for the hardware manufacturers to be compatible then we would still be running windows 3.0

The problems with upgrading to xp sp2 I had some problems myself, but you can't blame microsoft. I realize that alot of computer users are not techs, but a basic understanding of computers would reveal that microsoft is not to blame for hardware compatibility issues.

Example: I upgraded to windows vista before I checked to make sure my hardware was compatible. It was my own stupidity for not checking before I bought the program. I just recently got an upgrade for one of my printers.

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Vista compatability
Mar 14, 2007 10:01PM PDT

Microsoft could be a bit more open in getting the information to the 3rd. party vendors. They so often try to keep out vender like Symamtec, who had to sue to get info to get info to make their products work, where the MSFT product MS was trying to product comes in last in all industry test.

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Vista & Opensource
Mar 14, 2007 11:16PM PDT

They should also be more open to Opensource. I think they even become transparent with years to alternatives of Microsoft, as much as they realize that it is not good to ignore them; at least because their transparency could bring them more business success.

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sorry you need to reread the article
Mar 15, 2007 1:41AM PDT

"They so often try to keep out vendor like Symantec, who had to sue to get info to get info to make their products work,"

they were sued because Symantec wanted to have control of the kernel and that was in the EU we in the US are safe from Semitics attempt to force Microsoft to unlock the kernel

Microsoft locked the kernel down for security reasons mac's kernel has been locked down for years and Symatec works just fine on it but on windows Symantec wants to take over your system by installing root kits and taking over your windows kernel thats the facts and I'm glad they lost that case in the US.

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Exactly... It's Windows to blame.
Mar 15, 2007 3:12AM PDT

Vista was supposed to be the 'Ultimate Plug and Play OS,' and yet many 3rd party hardware/software is unusable. Who's to blame? Microsoft. The purpose of an OS is to combine hardware and software from anyone in a productive and anesthetic manner. The only problem with Vista is that it comsumes your hardware resources and some software doesn't work. Again, who's to blame? Is it the vendor's job to hassle MS to give them information about Vista in order to make their product compatible, or MS to release the information to any vendor aiming to make a platform on Windows.

More and more programs and hardware are being made for Linux, and if Windows wants to stay in the running for much longer, they have to comply with all vendor to keep their biggest catch point: almost all programs run on Windows. If I were a vendor trying to establish contact with the Windows information and denied, especially if I was Symantec, I'd look for a new platform. Maybe something that's opensource, so I wouldn't have to bother anyone about compatability.

You all have to admit, Vista could be the last semi-successful Windows OS. It's just like the PS3 versus the X-Box 360 or Wii. Sony made a whole lot of mistakes, and now their paying for it. Both Microsoft and Sony have dominated their domain for years, but eventually you must hand off the torch to someone else.

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It's not like everyone has dsl or current subs to their SW
Mar 14, 2007 12:39PM PDT

FIRST -- just recently has DLS or high speed reached approximately half of the computer users in America. Downloading drivers at dial-up speeds sucks - especially if your line hick-ups during a 2 to 5 hour period.

SECOND -- my PhotoShop and DreamWeaver are 5+ years old and work just fine thank you -- so Windows goes Vista -- and I spend how many THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of dollars to upgrade programs that are perhaps on the verge of not being supported any longer?

I CAN say that very large companies like AT&T where you HAVE to use them and HAVE to have current versions SHOULD have update patches for their programs, but why should Adobe create drivers and patches for a version of photoshop that is 5-6-7 years old, but does exactly what I want it to.

I have a Dell that's (knock on wood) given me no trouble running 24/7 so that I can do my civic duty and keep the World Community Grid going and help all of mankind. And I don't see an end to this dell yet. When it begins to show signs of crashing or the HD gets a bit full, sure I'll switch -- but I sure would like to be able to use my couple-a-thousands of dollars worth of software --- older, OK, yes, BUT heck, I'll be any one just about anything there there are no five people anywhere on earth who know everything that my Photoshop 6 can do. I sure have no clue -- so perhaps a little thought should be given to the older programs and the smaller companies when one considers the BILLIONS of dollars that MS will make off their new OS.

Perhaps TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars. Maybe HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

Heck, those numbers are too large for me to understand. Only that many small companies are hard pressed to provide EXCEPTIONAL user support for their current products -- let alone provide support for MULTIPLE PLATFORMS -- because, apparently Vista is sounding more like a different platform the more I read and hear about it.

Well that's my five cents worth.

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Stop Complaining....YOU HAVE A CHOICE!
Mar 14, 2007 1:15PM PDT

What all you complainers seem to be forgetting is that you don't have to upgrade to VISTA!! If you have older stuff and don't want to buy new and don't want to have to deal with the potential problems of upgrading then DON'T UPGRADE....how simple can it be?

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You are missing the point...
Mar 14, 2007 3:04PM PDT

... When you walk into a computer shop and buy a new computer, you don't get asked "... and would you prefer Vista preinstalled on that, or would you rather have XP, Linux, Windows 98, etc." You get what Microsoft told the hardware manufacturer to put on the new machine!

Then when you get home and start to migrate all your perfectly working software and peripherals to your shiny new machine... poof, the Vista illusion quickly fades away. Now you need to get new peripherals (if they are no longer supported), new software versions, etc. and that can all mount in cost, especially if you are talking about old business productivity software.

Slowly it dawns on you that you have not been given a choice here. Had you known about all of these compatibility issues before hand and had been given the choice between Vista on that new computer and XP, you might have reached the conclusion that although you may need the computer upgrade, Vista is not for you if it means having to upgrade everything else as well (especially if it is important to squeeze the last few cents of value out of your existing investment in peripherals and productivity software).

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Very True and I totally agree
Mar 14, 2007 3:53PM PDT

MS should have made sure Vista was backwards compatible with XP so that any software or hardware that worked with XP, would still work with Vista.

From my point of view, Vista is a total waste and I feel sorry for anyone who has it. It's not really any kind of improvement, aside from a couple of "bells and whistles" graphic feature, (aero glass), and it is a real resource hog. Making it virtually unusable without significant hardware upgrades. In a test lab training, we had Vista running on a machine with 512MB, (which MS claims as the minimum req). It ran, but just booted to the OS, not running any other apps, it used up over 400MB of RAM. That doesn't leave much for other things.

I work as a tech support specialist for Gateway Business Systems. Besides all the compatibility issues, sometime on or just prior to last Sun (3/11), there were some Windows Updates to Vista, which people got on their machines, (many w/o even realizing it). These updates caused Vista to crash and they were booting to the BSOD. Did MS miss people getting this and that is why they sent this latest update. We have had numerous calls all week with this same problem. Fortunately, it only took a couple days before we had a fix, booting to the OS DVD and running 3 DOS bootrec commands, that resolved the issue. But how many people aren't going to get this? How many people are going to reload, and loose all their data. Or maybe even worse, reload and not realize that Vista, by default, (unless you delete the existing partition during the reload), just installs another copy of Vista on the HDD. I had one customer who wound up with 4 copies of Vista on his HDD before I got him. I walked him thru a reload, deleting the partition, then making a new one, then loading Vista. After we turned off automatic updates.

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User incompetence...
Mar 14, 2007 9:57PM PDT

First of all, I'm not an elitist and I'm not a Microsoft hater. I think everyone should be able to use computers.

As far as a company like MS is concerned, they just want more and more people to start using computers. And if those new computer users didn't learn anything more about computers than depending more on Windows, can you blame Microsoft?

Mainstream operating systems for dummies won't exist and they certainly won't keep coming up if dummies don't exist in the mainstream.

Unless you learnt using computers on computers that had non-MS OSs like MacOS, Unix or OS/2, you probably should be thankful to MS. Maybe without MS, you'd be unemployed! Maybe Apple might have become like MS... then, not only they'd have a software monopoly, they'd have a hardware monopoly too. Maybe both! Any non-Mac convert want that?

This whole blaming-MS thing is like blaming a diaper company for not making their products large enough when you shouldn't still be in them in the first place!

Go learn how to use a different OS or learn how to put up with the one you want to use. It's your choice, market!

...

PS: Some operating systems use all the available physical memory. If you've used Linux you'd know this. In such cases, when a program needs more memory, less frequently used things get paged. I don't know the specifics of Vista's memory manager and I don't think you do either... so let's not panic.

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User Incompetence
Mar 14, 2007 10:13PM PDT

I wouldn't call it so much User Incompetence, more like User Gullability. Rushing out and jumping on the Vista band wagon, only to find the wagon wheel is cracked. I got my wife a new laptop for Xmas. I thank God I bought it in Nov and it had XP.

I mean the first month Vista was out, not many issues, at least we weren't getting calls about it at work. Now M$ releases a "critical update" that crashes the OS to a BSOD?!?!?! When anyone asks about getting a Vista upgrade I advise hold off, for quite some time, if ever.

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OF COURSE MICROSOFT IS TO BLAME
Mar 15, 2007 3:59PM PDT

For me the bottom line is that Microsoft WAS aware that the other companies weren't ready yet with their drivers for Vista, and that launching it would have problems and yet they STILL released it, without waiting for everyone else to finish their software. This of course causing headaches and frustrations from a LOT of people who either paid for this very expensive, semi-useless OS or stuck with it when they bought a new PC.

Microsoft can't just expect everyone to upgrade all their stuff IMMEDIATELY to enjoy their EXPENSIVE VISTA.

Admit it, Vista is not ready for the world, and the world is not ready for Vista yet. Period.

For those of you who insist in an OS that looks good (which is basically what it boils down to)....get a new Intel-based Mac. Yes, you can load XP very easily and it runs like a charm, and then maybe, when Vista IS FINALLY READY, you can even run Vista on a Mac. Come to think of it, i have a friend who has a Macbook Pro loaded with Vista Ultimate, and it is running, mind you.

Ok, so you CAN use Vista, just don't connect Vista to any ANCIENT device which would include your current mobile phone (whatever brand and no matter how new), scanner, printer, usb wireless adaptor, PDA, digital camera, webcam.... not to mention your OLD games (yes, the ones that came out January 2007), any 2006 and 2007 Anti-virus program (i've never seen an Anti-Virus program for Vista yet), Photoshop, Office 2003 or older, you know, stuff that you just happen to use everyday. Connecting to the internet, though, is possible. However, without a Vista anti-virus program, do you really think you CAN be safe? I don't think so.

Peace out! Happy

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Get a life.
Mar 15, 2007 5:19PM PDT

One of the questions asked by CNET is "what programs and software work with Vista?" I happen to have the following that work fine: first, PALM OS/desktop, etc.; second, Quicken 2007, except for its internal glitch with zeroing out asset values, which happens on XP as well;a Radio Shack 7-slot USB 2.0 hub; a non-interruptible power supply; Norton Internet Security Suite 2007; Office 2007 and Microsoft Streets and Trips (naturally); Google's Picasa 2 (and every variant based on it), etc. Actually, the only things that don't fully work are my HP printer, my HP scanner, and some discs like Rand McNally World Atlas 1999, which didn't work with XP either. I don't really think you know what you're talking about, or maybe you're a flack for Steve Jobs. That's OK by me, but at least disclose.

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How to spot garbage posts
Mar 17, 2007 10:58PM PDT

You know a post is garbage when...

* They contain claims that only make sense to people with lots of aversion such as Nazis and many Mac-converts. For example:

"For me the bottom line is that Microsoft WAS aware that the other companies weren't ready yet with their drivers for Vista, and that launching it would have problems and yet they STILL released it,"


* They lack understanding of real-world issues. For example:

"... they STILL released it, without waiting for everyone else to finish their software."

In the above case, the commenter doesn't understand that there are _many_ hardware manufacturers and they can't possibly create drivers for all the products they have released. Certainly not immediately, if ever. Also, the commenter doesn't understand that, even if some companies were going to release new drivers and Microsoft was going to wait until companies did that... where can MS draw the line on how long they have to wait? Maybe this is not a problem for Apple since pretty much everything a Mac user has is Apple.


* The commenter doesn't understand that, just like himself/herself, people are not endowed with reason. For example:

"This of course causing headaches and frustrations from a LOT of people who either paid for this very expensive, semi-useless OS..."

In the above case, if people went and purchased Vista without waiting for any reviews when there are thousands of sites reviewing these things as they're released, it's the people's fault for being careless and/or making uninformed decisions.


* The commenter will make further claims that will only make sense to "special" people. For example:

"... stuck with it when they bought a new PC."

First, when did people have a choice between the latest version of an OS and an older version of that OS? Secondly, as said before, people should have waited for reviews. Thirdly, Linux.


* More uninformed comments such as:

"Microsoft can't just expect everyone to upgrade all their stuff IMMEDIATELY to enjoy their EXPENSIVE VISTA."

If it ships with a new computer, then all promised components should be working. If they upgraded an existing machine then they should have checked for compatibility/drivers on hardware manufacturer's sites etc. without taking chances. Also, these sorts of problems have existed since the begining of Windows time... a computer is not an automatic swiss watch that you can pass on generations after generations. They break or get obsolete and you throw them away. If people shelled out a lot of money then what were they thinking?! You don't go buy an exotic sports car if you can't bare the running costs! Not if you're not stupid!


* Yet more uninformed comments:

"i've never seen an Anti-Virus program for Vista yet"

Here's a list of anti-virus programs that are certified for Vista:

CA Anti-Virus 2007
Kaspersky Internet Security 6.0.2.614
Kaspersky Anti-Virus 6.0.2.614
McAfee Total Protection 2007
McAfee Internet Security Suite 2007
McAfee PC Protection Plus 2007
McAfee VirusScan 2007
McAfee Wireless Protection 2007
McAfee SiteAdvisor
McAfee SiteAdvisor Plus
Norton Internet Security 2006/2007
Norton AntiVirus 2006/2007
Norton Confidential (on or after February 4, 2007)
Panda Antivirus 2007
Panda Internet Security 2007
Trend Micro Internet Security 2007
Trend Micro AntiVirus plus AntiSpyware 2007


* Lastly, like myself, you'll find yourself short of time to point out all the worthless/garbage claims.

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Not getting the point...
Mar 15, 2007 11:41PM PDT

I'm not saying Vista's current users are at fault for its faults. I said MS makes operating systems like these because there are lazy people out there who want things to be perfect for them while not exerting any effort. And because there are users like these, MS makes bloated kiddy operating systems. Who's making you choose to use Windows? It's not MS.

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So EASY > A Cave man could Do IT!!
Mar 21, 2007 3:50AM PDT

First Me INVENT WHEEL... Then Me INVENT F I R E.. Now Looks like Im Gonna have to FIX VISTA. Or Maybe RE INVENT IT!!!
When Windows X P replaced Win 98 It was a Vast improvement INCLUDING COMPATIBILITY and software Drivers. MANY times after installing X P You dont even need them motherboard CD for peripherals such as sound and Video!! X P had added tons of DRIVERS which windows would search for and install for you.( for NEW hardware / software) !!!! So What happened with VISTA?? Did M S Get LAZY?? Why release and SELL a product to The Public that is INFERIOR to your previous O S??. Obviously M S wants to Lose customers.. Im Sure MAC and LINUX will be Greatful. I wouldnt have VISTA ona POPSICLE stick If They gave It to me FREE!! Not Only are There TOO MANY Incompatibility issues with software programs. There are BUGS ..And Not The least to mention. VISTA Is a H U G E RESOURCE > H O G...It is Never going to Operate Properly much less PERFORM on anything OTHER than a "State of the ART" (NEW Machine)..It Needs ( to perform at acceptable level) at least 2 gigs of DDR memory >> 4 is BETTER !!! It also needs T H E fastest Processor Your Motherboard can take!! So Keep in Mind IF You are thinking of "UPGRADING" From ANYTHING to VISTA?? You will be UPGRADING W A Y More Than just Your O S !!!And THEN You will stil have the BUGS and Incompatibilities! Y O U Cannot Blame ANYONE B U T Microsoft and Bill Gates for any and all of these issues!! I F Toyota made and sold their cars in such a manner?? Do You think That the Big 3 Auto makers would be worrying about sales?? Is It the 3rd party and hardware manufacturers fault That MICROSOFT Built an
E D S E L ?? I Think N O T.. It will be a "COLD Day In HELL", before VISTA goes On one Of my P C'S !! Or at least a very long time?? Like when Bill and M S pull their heads out of ???? The sand !

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Hold the Forum
Mar 14, 2007 10:49PM PDT

Vista has been out for about a year now through Beta's, RC1 & RC2, while the actual OS has been out for about two months. The fact that hardware manufactorers do not have drivers available is a direct result of their inability to give a crap about their consumers.

Your 3rd party product manufactorers want to benefit from you purchasing Vista compatable hardware, whether that's a scanner, printer, webcam, etc.. Afterall, these companies care more about profit than consumer satisfaction any day of the week (that's why you talk to Hindu Bob when something breaks, it's cheap!!).

For the user Photoham....please don't make a mistake and go to a Mac. You'll go from an OS with billions of applications that is generally compatable with anyone who wants to sell a product to an OS that supports one manufactors device (Apple). If you're going to switch, for the love of the Electronics God, please choose Linux instead. You'll thank yourself in the long run, it's very inexpensive, just as flashy and convienant and you'll be an Open Source Community rather than an uppity snobby one!

1 World

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No MACs
Mar 14, 2007 11:37PM PDT

XP is a good Microsoft product that gives me everything that I need right now for advantage in buisness and recreation. The wide usage makes it indipensible and MACs can't offer the compatibiity or divdersity that Windows does. I'll load Vista again in a year or two.
Dan

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Re: Very True and I totally agree
Mar 14, 2007 10:58PM PDT

I agree, for years I had been building my own PC, and loading the programmes I wanted. About 5 years ago. I decided to get a new machine, guess what, it's preloaded with XP - which I didn't want. Unfortunately, I did want some of the hardware features in the new machine, so had to accept the preloaded XP. I was not given any choice in the matter, it was a "done deal", as was loadiing a lot of school programmes, and general kids games, none of which have ever been used and are a total waste of money.

I would much rather see an O/S produced by MS that is far cheaper than the present O/S's, say just a few pounds more than an OEM version (I won't touch those with a bargepole, they're often pirated anyway), rather than have to spend