Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

General discussion

Windows Vista Bugs

Feb 12, 2007 3:26AM PST

I have been a faithful Windows user since 3.0 and I really though that nothing could be worse than Windows ME. Vista in the early stages is worse. Windows ME had its problems, but you could get support/help from 3rd party vendors. Upgrading to Vista has been a real challenge... and I feel like I'm walking through this maze all alone. So many software and hardware items don't work with Vista and third party vendors have not developed a fix yet. Virus protection... No, AOL security... NO, ATT security suite... No. Problems that were none existent yesterday are here today. The drivers for my video card, cd-rom drive and D-link usb adapter worked yesterday. Now, nothing but problem messages. I've always fought the good PC vs. MAC fight and found the MAC commercials to be amusing. But, I've never given thought to joining the MAC legions until now. If Vista wasn't ready for a release that would be seamless for the upgrade crowd, It should have been noted. And the Vista Advisor is another matter for another conversation. Why give the green light to a system for upgrade and then present you with a different reality post upgrade?

Discussion is locked

- Collapse -
Qui'cher gripin' - ya asked fer it, now ya got it
Mar 14, 2007 11:17AM PDT

Windows 3.0 & 3.1 Great operating system even though (maybe especially because) it ran on a DOS platform.
Windows 3.11 - not so much
Windows 95 ho-hum
Windows 98 same thing
Windows 98 second edition was terrific once the bugs got squashed.
Win ME and Win2000 failed experiments in combining Windows NT with Windows 98 interface. What an abortion!
Win XP is the only operating system I've liked that came out of Microsoft since Win98SE.

I've only just upgraded to XP (it's been out for - how long now?) and I'm pleased with it. I'll upgrade to Vista shortly after the next operating system goes into Beta testing.

'till then, I'll keep reading the posts.

Yes, yes, I know. If no one upgraded to the latest and greatest, there would be no incentive to push the new operating system to market possibly resulting in Microsoft (yes, yes, I know, it's the vendors) actually testing their operating system with the vendors software to ensure backward compatability. You've all heard of backward compatability, haven't you?

Have a nice day

- Collapse -
Time to get a mac
Mar 14, 2007 11:18AM PDT

Buy a mac.. Plain and simple. Enjoy using your comptuer again. The commercials make light fun out of very serious problems..

- Collapse -
Vista ad nauseum
Mar 14, 2007 11:18AM PDT

I've read nearly all of the 231 posts in this thread, and to be honest, the n00b's don't understand how computers work and screw things up. The pros won't post here because they at least try to figure things out. All those in between probably can't walk down the street and chew gum at the same time.

Microsoft provided a tool to see if Vista would run on your machine. Why didn't you try it?

HP has usually been reliable about upgrading drivers for recent machines. They should be up and running in a week or so.

I am still running XP and will continue to do so for a long while, at least until an upgrade or two comes out for Vista. I ran 98SE (skipped ME--it wasn't much of an improvement) for nearly two years after XP was released. I then installed a fairly stable XP version that has run well ever since (XP Pro). I use XP Pro both at school and work with no problems.

So you wanted to be the first to use Vista? Congratulations. Next time use some common sense and don't rush out to be the first. Patience is rewarded, little one.

It is easier to blame others than to accept responsibility for our less than intelligent actions.

- Collapse -
Windows Vista Bugs
Mar 14, 2007 11:19AM PDT

Microsoft is responsible for Vista - nothing else.

- Collapse -
I'm convinced :)
Mar 14, 2007 11:20AM PDT

Well, all this talk about the problems with Vista being due to "third party" hardware and software manufacturers has convinced me. So I guess the next computer I buy will be the Microsoft Computer, not a machine from a "third party."


Where do they sell those again?

- Collapse -
i don't
Mar 16, 2007 1:40PM PDT

know...i am one of those who can't walk and chew gum at the same time...is there a mac-crosoft computer..


where do you buy those?

- Collapse -
OS Compatibility
Mar 14, 2007 11:20AM PDT

It depends on whether the OS vendor (Microsoft) intends on the OS being backward compatible or not. In the case of Vista I believe that MS made it fairly clear that much of the old model would be broken and many things that required specific hardware drivers would be iffy to work in the new Vista model.

The biggest drawback to this approach is it gives the 3rd party software and hardware vendors a excuse to not support their current or slightly older products and saying "we will only support current and future products". This leaves many of us with products that are perfectly serviceable, but useless with the Vista OS.

In my experience with another OS (IBM's MVS), it was originally released around 1974 and has gone through many changes including the jump to 64 bit capable. I have seen much code that was written on the original MVS platform (and even on the prior MVT OS) make it to the current incarnation of the MVS OS called z/OS continue to run unmodified!

The point is that IBM acknowledged a very large installed base and one of their requirements was to provide seamless backward compatibility for the majority of code.

Microsoft has taken a different approach. It appears that continuing support of installed base is not of concern and if MS says we have to move then we have to move or lose the use of whatever falls out and the vendor of that fallout says "too bad, we wanted to sell you a newer product anyway".

The way I see it is this is the real difference between a truly industrial strength OS (IBM) and a wannabe industrial OS (MS). We could also compare other areas of the 2 OS's like security, data integrity, reliability, serviceability and many other areas that make a OS a OS. Makes one wonder, there's more to a OS than a pretty face...

W3

- Collapse -
Vista Bugs
Mar 14, 2007 11:20AM PDT

I don't know what happened to you. I just ran the Vista upgrade advisor which was free. It found three incompatabilities and I downloaded the needed drivbers before I upgraded. I installed the drivers and everything ran fine. I have been installing operating systems since MSDOS 3.12 and with the exception of MSDOS 5.0 this was the most trouble free install I have had. You must remember that everyone that had tried the Beta advised having a fairly new system (including me).
Please inform me of what incompatabilties you have and I'll try to find a solution.

- Collapse -
I would blame Microsoft
Mar 14, 2007 11:22AM PDT

It is interesting that Apple upgrades from OS 9 to OS X panther & tiger versions went without a hitch and even past programs are supported through the switch to another processor, without problems. Many curse Apple for their restrictiveness in third party apps and hardware but compatibility problems don't exist it seems.

Microsoft, large as it is, surely could have a copy of most every app to go with Windows and surely enough people to test and work with compatibility. Compatibility, though not required is a real nice thing to keep people coming back and upgrading without worries. I'm wondering how the folks at Microsoft would feel about Apple taunting the features of Vista and total Windows compatibility with older devices and programs? With Apple's Boot Camp and the program Parallels it seems that Apple Mac users are better compatible with Windows than Windows users that have upgraded to Vista are with their own Microsoft Products.

Compatibility to me is a feature of new software and therefore I do think Microsoft shares equal if not more blame for incompatibility issues. They sure had the people and the time and certainly the resources to work on that part. I'm beginning to think I'll stick with my Windows XP Home on my Toshiba Laptop and get an iMac. I certainly can understand long time loyal Microsoft users, as I was, doing the same. For me I'm waiting until OS X Leopard releases which I hear will be very soon now.

- Collapse -
Windows Vista Bugs
Mar 14, 2007 11:23AM PDT

Question. What did we do when MS came on line with new operating systems for XP, ME, etc.? As I recall, there wasn't much of a problem with MS and the vendors. What went astray this time? I purchased a new computer in DEC 2006, which included an updated version of Vista when it became available to the public. For the time being I have elected NOT to install the OS, as like other users, I am scared that many of my programs will NOT function with the new VISTA. I figure if I wait several months, the vendors will have had an opportunity to update their products, MS will have time to offer revisions or changes to their product.

- Collapse -
On Converting or Moving to Vista
Mar 14, 2007 11:26AM PDT

First of all, I have a rule of thumb. When it comes to MS software, I won't touch anything until 3.0 comes out. The reason is the history of the sofware with imperfections. The first version is inevitably buggy. The second version fixes some of the bugs, and probably makes some new ones. By the time it comes out, Version 3.0 has an opportunity of being usable for most practical purposes.

However, the big issue is compatibility. I recall that I upgraded from Office 97 to Office 2000, and my custom-made database program based on Access 97 was incompatible with 2000 causing me to lose much data. I recently bought Quickbooks 2006, and found out two months later that my Quickbooks will not be compatible unless I upgrade with 2007.

If my database will run on Linux, I would prefer to use that rather than Vista. At least I am aware of the incompatibilities in such circumstances.

Jerry Blaz

- Collapse -
MS won't take the blame, but they would take the credit!
Mar 14, 2007 11:26AM PDT

All the Microsoft fanboys are trying to shift the blame, for the monster that Vista has become, onto 3rd party vendors.

If Vista were to work flawlessly then you can bet your bottom dollar that Microsoft would be the first to say that the reason it's so good is because of their hard work.

Now that the world truly knows what a dog that Vista is, Microsoft tries to shift the blame to someone else.

Typical Microsoft, and their rabid fanboys.

- Collapse -
Putting on a good front
Mar 14, 2007 11:27AM PDT

I haven't changed to Microsoft Vista OS and probably won't until at least 3 or four service packs come out to fix the holes in the programming. This is typical Microsoft programming. Put the product out when it is barely past Beta testing and let the consumers deal with the headaches. I know the other software developers may be at fault as well, but why put good water in a bucket with holes?

My advise is to stick with XP or ME until the bugs get worked out in two to three years.

- Collapse -
Vista Compatability Software
Mar 14, 2007 11:27AM PDT

I want to preface my response with the statement that I am not the biggest Microsoft fan on the planet.
That said, Microsoft created a program specifically for the purpose of evaluating your system hardware, drivers, and software and its compatability with Vista. It does a good job of notifying you what will work, might work, and won't work so you can make an informed decision about what issues you will have to deal with if you convert BEFORE you convert.
Because of the issues raised after running this software, we made a strategic decision to wait for a year or so before attempting conversion.
From what I've seen, Microsoft has made every attempt to empower people with the information they need to make an informed choice.
If you have problems, you chose them.
Don't blame Microsoft.

- Collapse -
Windows Vista
Mar 14, 2007 11:27AM PDT

I recently bought a Sony laptop that still Had Windows XP, in order to avoid this nonsense. Why should I pay to beta test the richest man in the world's latest software? I am not a technophobe as I have been using PCs since 1986. However, all programs and operating systems have flaws, therefore I will stay with XP until there is truly something better.

- Collapse -
Vista makes me pissta
Mar 14, 2007 11:29AM PDT

Had XP pro since it came out. Never crashed it. Bought a new box it came with vista crashed it three times in three weeks. Made a backup copy of the HD I plan to wipe the drive install XP and wait until vista is ready. I remember windows me, it would take allot to be worse than it was but Redmond sure tried.

- Collapse -
The Mac Community Welcomes You
Mar 14, 2007 11:31AM PDT

I was once a diehard Windows fan myself. I've recently made the switch to Mac and I couldn't be happier. Make the switch, you'll love it.

- Collapse -
Compatability
Mar 14, 2007 11:32AM PDT

I am a long time microsoft user and hater. I draw using AutoCad.(Another Story} The company I work for bought me a nice new Dell laptop with a 19" screen to work from home. Imagine my chagrin when after loading the software(AutoCad) and queing the start I received the message that there are known incompatability issues with windows Vista. ... Back to XP-Pro. Almost end of story. It took two days for the IT guy to get the laptop up and running because of equipment driver issues. As far as I am concerned it should be called anything but a good operating system. Give it 5 or 6 years and maybe the bugs will be worked out.

- Collapse -
to the point
Mar 14, 2007 11:35AM PDT

consider if you will when most of the hardware was made it was made for windows xp and earlier because companies knew of these os's so microsoft is to blame for not telling the companies years ago to design hardware for future os style to be relased and let's not forget about microsofts windows 7 they didn't want to be made public knowledge so I would say Microsoft should have written support codes for older hardware or given everybody the new vista or windows 7 for free as they have to go and buy new hardware to use these nightmare os's. So Far I have not found a capture card that is compable with Vista and it ruined the one I currently have is Microsoft going to comensate me for my lost ? well we all know a man don't make 77 billon dollars USD by fair play.

- Collapse -
Been there done all that, easy reasons!
Mar 14, 2007 11:37AM PDT

I to, like the original poster have used windows since 3.0, I don't have to put an x there I remember getting the 5 floppy disks with a new mouse I bought! And if he really has been around it that long, then this is nothing new. We went through it with Windows 95, 98, XP, 2003. Nothing has changed in that respect. What has changed about some of his complaints are easy, AOL is not really in business any more, I was an AOL member and got the letter stating that what I was paying for was now available for free, so that was the end of that.
Now whats the difference between this new version and the older "new" versions? I remember going nuts with a new CD-ROM drive that there was no driver for in Windows 95, I remember in Windows 98 anything made in 99 would not work and they were slow coming out with the drivers for that edition too.
While Vista has many many drawbacks, hardware isn't really one of them. I build, sell, and repair computers for a living, and have really had less problems then other versions. Thats not to say that Vista is the way to go, and I don't recommend it to customers at this point in time. But to complain about it after a little over a month of being out is a little unfair, and I can agree to some extent with the statement that the software people all got caught with their pants down on this one, they really thought it was going to get delayed again, Surprise!!
Now the rash statement to switch to a Mac. well sounds like to me someone has more money then good sense, you just bought Vista so throw it away on a new system then don't forget that leopard will be out soon, then you will be where you are now with the exception of being a lot poorer! Now lets shake things up, Mac will never be as good as PC's, real simple, look at the state of the art Mac, and you can buy an equal PC on ebay for a couple hundred, I know I can see the Mac users grabbing their keyboards now, but its true, look at the specs before you write, because I bet you I already have, ohhhh Mac is coming out with a dual core Intel, are you kidding? Thats makes them several years behind! Ohh but leopard will... uhhmmm no it wont all that Leopard will do is wait for the dust to settle from vista and so they know how much they can overcharge for their new OS just like Microsoft did! The New OS no matter which one will have problems, anyone thats been at this since before 2002 knows this, we all got spoiled by XP because any "new" editions were based on the same kernal, and after almost 5 years it is still getting it done, and the "Newest" XP the X64 edition is the best, it is based on the 2003 kernal and I love it, all that XP was supposed to be! If you want to find fault with the computer world today look no further then your mirror, as long as people keep sending mixed signals to the software companies then we will have this mess for a while, The 64bit systems have been around for a long while now (in computer time) and yet we still buy, and download 32bit apps, games, etc. "Yeah but they don't make 64bit.." Well duuhhh because the majority of the market keeps buying and downloading 32bit, because of the WOW (Windows On Windows) that allows 32bit to run on 64bit systems, if we stop then they will stop, first rule of business supply and demand, if there is no demand then who cares about the supply, go ahead look down at those stickers on your computer, you know what it says, you got the 64bit X2, the IA64, the 64FX, etc man it is fast it runs 32 bit Windows XP, Vista, whatever so fast, and you feel so good that your running at half speed, because you are using 32bit on a 64bit platform that is 5 year old software technology, you love the fact that you can whip around that $700 Adobe photoshop while only using 7% of your processor, now imagine if you were doing it at 3% because every one stopped paying so much for old outdated technology, so we only have one place to place the blame, or easiest way to say it, We have met the enemy and it is us!

- Collapse -
Deja Vu
Mar 14, 2007 11:38AM PDT

On reading the "question provocateur", I'm reminded of that event of about 40 years ago when IBM incompatibly upgraded its operating system and told its customers they would really like the new OS once they had rewritten all their applications. IBM responded to these concerns by providing extensive compatibility in all subsequent releases.

Most manufacturers have reasons imposed upon them by the competitive marketplace to see to the compatibility of existing applications with the new operating system.

Microsoft, the convicted monopolist, may not feel those competitive influences as then-monopolist IBM felt them. Microsoft may intend, as it has in the past, to use these incompatibilities to defeat niche competitors, clearing the playing field for MS products. Microsoft may feel they have no significant desktop OS competitor to which they can lose market share. Microsoft may feel, after the slap on the wrist it received in 2000, that it can act with impunity.

This event may represent an opportunity for Unix to gain desktop market share. Unix has always maintained a high level of compatibility with existing applications.

db

- Collapse -
Unix?? Did You Mean Mac (BSD) or Linux <> Unix?
Mar 14, 2007 11:59AM PDT

The only Unix left is Solaris. And I don't ever see a Solaris fanboy around here. Are you one?

- Collapse -
Windows Vista Software
Mar 14, 2007 11:39AM PDT

Well I believe it's more the software manufacture problem than MS. But like Ford with the Explorer tire problems the car maker got the blame. MS has never been one to take the blame for anything, they always seem to blame someone else.

I'm still running ME and hate it and hearing that all the software and scanner/printers I have won't work with Vista has me holding off. If HP and others are saying they won't provide the upgrades because what you have is to old, than my replacement will not be one of their products. I don't have all sorts of expendable income to upgrade everything, it's bad enough for the CPU I want.

Guess I'll wait some more.... Sad

- Collapse -
windows vista
Mar 14, 2007 11:40AM PDT

windows has had control for many years hurting the little guy again and again and they are tring to get more control now more than ever before right. with this new ******** about leagal copies of their software. I bought xp an 64 and still I have to call an 800 number in india or where ever to reinstall which is a crock of crap since I purchased my copies but we will skip all that ********. I hope this is retaliation against microsoft by other venders to knock them off their high horse once and for all they suck and the whole world knows it and if you paid top dollar for an upgrade you need your head examined dont you. vista is the greatist scam to date.I will not buy vista and never will I am so tired of their ********. they are full of it and everybody knows it and stick direct 10 up your ***. you money hungry whores at micsuck.

- Collapse -
Get a mac HA HA HA.
Mar 14, 2007 11:40AM PDT

Now every time my wife's PC freezes or I hear that dreaded Windows keyboard chord (like I just did) or the blue screen of death shows up and we lose all her data, especially after a Windows update, or she gets an attempted spyware, virus or web page jack, I offer to buy a mac mini and close the home help desk permanently.

Since I switched, I basically stopped doing do it yourself help desk on my own computer.

- Collapse -
Another convenient excuse to hit at MicroSoft?
Mar 14, 2007 11:42AM PDT

Though I hesitate to apportion blame, it kind'a makes sense that because the OS is the main environment within which third party progs run, the working standard is determined by the OS's parameters. Consequently, the burden would seem to lie on the third party prog or driver being run within that OS environment to meet the compatibility criteria. Generally speaking of course.
It is fair to say, as someone already pointed out that third party prog/dvr vendors do require time to produce compatible offerings. Then again, in view of the delays prior to the release of VISTA, one would imagine that there has been ample time for the third party vendors to have prepared compatible progs/dvrs, or at least patches for current versions.
Hope all that makes sense to y'all. It does to me!

- Collapse -
Microsoft is money-hungry, as always
Mar 14, 2007 11:42AM PDT

It is a well known fact that Microsoft charges the manufacturers of other software programs a heck o'lot of money so that they can get some of the source files to make their programs compatible with Microsoft! Bill Gates is now only the second richest man in the world.Looks like he wants to be the richest man again. Most companies are happy with Windows 2000 and do not want to follow every folly Bill Gates and Steve Balmer are coming up with. Steve Balmer had to admit that the sales of Vista are presently much lower than estimated. Sorry Bill Gates,this means several millions less in your pocket! For XP they came up with 'patches' shortly after the 'new software' hit the market and after that one patch after another had to be installed; I can not count the amount of patches. I presently encounter one crash after another with Office 2007. Same spiel, as always: Have people buy faulty software and blame the crashes on the computer manufacturer, who then blames Microsoft,correctly.

- Collapse -
Why is the driver actually broken?
Mar 14, 2007 11:42AM PDT

If the driver was certified to run on Windows XP and followed all the Microsoft guidelines for hardware drivers, then the blame lies with Microsoft (They should have remained at least a little backward compatible). If the driver has failed because the vendor was accessing Windows kernel code that no longer exists or taking advantage of some flaw to gain performance advantage which is now fixed, then the vendor is to blame. I don't think this is a cut and dry issue.
Having said that, I think that if Microsoft didn't have such a near monopoly with the OS then they would have worked much harder to ensure their OS was compatible with most common hardware. It should be the vendors that change their code, not Windows remaining archaic to support old drivers of vendors who refuse.

- Collapse -
Vista does not play nicely with XP network
Mar 14, 2007 11:44AM PDT

I have a small home network with four PCs running either XP Home or XP Pro, plus an iBook running Mac OS X 10.2.

I upgraded one of the PCs to run Vista Home Premium and it runs well enough on its own, but even with applying the necessary patches to get XP machines to see the Vista box, and to get the Vista box to see the XP machines, I cannot get machines from either side of the Vista divide to share the printers.

It has also been a pain with file sharing in that the Vista box will not let me copy files to a shared folder on any of the other machines, neither will it let me copy files from other machines to the Vista box. I have adjusted the permissions but no joy.

Now you might talk about how it is only important for other software and hardware distributors to make their packages work with Vista, but why does MS make it so darn difficult to even cooperate with XP machines?

My current solution? I've uninstalled Vista and gone back to XP - all network shares work again.

Anyone want to buy a copy of Vista with a slightly used COA sticker? (Just kidding.)

- Collapse -
Vista does play well with an XP network
Mar 14, 2007 2:44PM PDT

I also have Vista on two machines and several other machines in my home network running XP Pro.

My printers are all on the XP machines and are shared on the network.

The only problem I had getting the Vista computers to print to the shared printers on the XP machines was to ensure that I had Vista compatible printer drivers for those printers available on the Vista machines.

Also I can share, and copy files between the Vista comptuers and the XP Pro computers and even with a Windows 2000 server. So you must have some problem with your network configuration.

By the way just like with Windows XP, Home editions of Vista do not have as many networking capabilities as business versions.