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General discussion

Windows Vista Bugs

Feb 12, 2007 3:26AM PST

I have been a faithful Windows user since 3.0 and I really though that nothing could be worse than Windows ME. Vista in the early stages is worse. Windows ME had its problems, but you could get support/help from 3rd party vendors. Upgrading to Vista has been a real challenge... and I feel like I'm walking through this maze all alone. So many software and hardware items don't work with Vista and third party vendors have not developed a fix yet. Virus protection... No, AOL security... NO, ATT security suite... No. Problems that were none existent yesterday are here today. The drivers for my video card, cd-rom drive and D-link usb adapter worked yesterday. Now, nothing but problem messages. I've always fought the good PC vs. MAC fight and found the MAC commercials to be amusing. But, I've never given thought to joining the MAC legions until now. If Vista wasn't ready for a release that would be seamless for the upgrade crowd, It should have been noted. And the Vista Advisor is another matter for another conversation. Why give the green light to a system for upgrade and then present you with a different reality post upgrade?

Discussion is locked

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Microsoft needs to get it's act together
Mar 14, 2007 10:58AM PDT

We bought a PC from Dell a couple of months ago with XP installed. We tried to install Vista but, after a full day of trying to get all of the software and drivers to work, uninstalled it and re-installed XP. Since XP and Vista are both Microsoft products, one would hope that they would both be compatable with the same applications. No such luck! I hold Microsoft responsible. They designed Vista. The least they could do is insure that it is compatable with the same applications as XP.

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Vista
Mar 14, 2007 10:58AM PDT

WHO CREATED VISTA? That is your answer for any bugs or incompatability, the CREATOR is responsible. But what the heck, their stuff is always buggy and filled with holes, sloppy code. Market $$$$$$$$ only concern, let the poor sucker on the street get screwed then we will make a small patch and charge for an upgrade. HISTORY speaks for itself.

J. Potocny

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Microsoft vs. Third Party
Mar 14, 2007 10:59AM PDT

I say *** to all of the companies out there like Creative Labs who took until March 8th to release their official Vista Drivers. I mean, come on...do these companies not have an R&D department dedicated to the betterment of their software packages and drivers? And how long ago was Vista's beta version released so these companies could start programming?

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We should take a cue from large companies...
Mar 14, 2007 10:59AM PDT

While you certainly cannot blame Microsoft for 3rd party driver issues, you could argue Microsoft should have held off distributing an upgrade version of Vista until more support was available for legacy devices. Backward compatibility is the bane of the computer industry, with certain restrictions hampering inovation just to make sure a product was accessible to everyone. With Vista, Microsoft is trying to push inovation forward at a faster pace, and sometimes that means there will be some left behind.

With that in mind we, as consumers, should look at what large companies do, and that is to wait until a new OS has been out for sometime before migrating to it. Sure we all want to try out all the bells and whistles of the shiny new OS, but it's almost the same philosophy as car shopping. My father always told me, never buy the first model year of a car, you never know what defects are going to show up. I think it is true of Microsoft's OSs. There is no compelling reason to jump on the hype wagon. If you are getting a new system, by all means get the new OS. If issues prop up, at least you have, or should have, the computer vendor to fall back to for support. If you have an older machine, hold off upgrading until you are sure all your hardware and software is supported. And always do a clean install, no matter what some one might tell you.

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Microsoft is to blame
Mar 14, 2007 11:00AM PDT

Typical Microsoft, if they had of released the needed information to these third-party vendors earlier than what was done, the vendors would of had time to create updated drivers. As it stands, more software and drivers are going to be incompatible with Vista. An even more reason to switch to Linux or Mac.

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Microsoft of Course
Mar 14, 2007 11:00AM PDT

Microsoft created a content protection system for their new Vista OS. This created requirements for drivers and complexity that didn?t need to exist. That and other Vista driver demands (increased security etc.) create a higher bar that driver programmers need to meet for their product to work. That means more code and more code means more room for error.

Before Vista launched Microsoft could have (and may have) done a study and predicted just how many problems the increased complexity of drivers would create.

Vista has been in Beta for longer than any other windows version and now that it?s out and shipping there still isn?t enough driver updates for my Vista Capable computer to actually run Vista. You can blame any one driver on the company that made it but you would be remiss if you tried to blame them all. It?s Vista.

If you want an analogy think about tobacco. Any one person can get cancer on their own without tobacco, but introduce tobacco and you can watch a big part of our population fall over like flies.

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Mac may have lost the battle, we'll see about the war
Mar 14, 2007 11:00AM PDT

I own several Macs. I own several PC's. I use the PCs to talk to the "rest" of the world. Now, I'm not saying i never have compatability issues on the Mac side. But when PC people (me included) were still typing C:/whatever, Macs were pointing and clicking. How Mac let that one slip by will go down as a very big business blunder.

With the advent of Intel-Macs and Bootcamp, the tide is turning. Gamers aside, Macs simply work better, and are much more intuitive. Recently, Mac introduced an upgrade to Final Cut Pro, it was broken, two days later they had a fix.

We're all beta testers to some extent, but not for an entire OS... Hobbiests and geeks aside, the masses will migrate, albiet slowly. Whose playing catch-up now?

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Vista incompatabilty problems
Mar 14, 2007 11:01AM PDT

I don't use Vista and I'm not going to in the forseeable future and this is EXACTLY why. COMPATABILITY PROBLEMS! I have some old programs that I don't want to part with and each time I upgrade, I lose some of them to compatability.
On the other hand, can we realistically expect Microsoft to, so to speak, "proof run" every program that's been written since who knows when, when they do upgrade? I think not!
Therefore, I'm REALLY against Microsoft periodically, coming out with a new operating system just to get some "COOL LOOKING" features without any REAL substance. I think XP is pretty good and could have survived much longer.

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Vista created Bugs
Mar 14, 2007 11:03AM PDT

It is easy to blame the manufacturers. They, of course want to sell you the next gen of their hardware. Even microsoft sells hardware. BUT! Ever notice that microsoft rarely has to update drivers as often as your scanner manufacturer? It takes a rather significant OS change for MS to isue an update to hardware drivers. More often than not, the drivers for your 5 year old joystick are nested in the new system, even after MS has supposedly dropped support.

The question becomes, that if the XP drivers have all of the information necessary to convey a hardware's function to XP, then why does it have to be changed for Vista?

Things work well in the Mac environment because Apple does not change the game for the "programmers interface guidelines" with every OS release. The last time the game changed in any major way for Apple, was the migration from OS9 to OSX.

It becomes obvious that MS has changed something to cause the drivers to have to be rewritten. MS could have even provided a way to load legacy drivers and ported the changes for newer hardware within the OS. My scanner has not demonstrated one single improvement or new feature with any OS change from MS.

It would have been trivial for MS to have legacy drivers work with Vista. MS could have even provided two separate load mechanisms for legacy and new drivers. It would have been trivial. It takes an act of god for a customer to get a manufacturer to rewrite drivers for a less than new piece of hardware, to function in a new OS. The only thing a driver does is pass information to the OS about what the device does or does not do. This is not about the differences between one CPU type and another type that does not use the same instruction set.

It has gotten to the point that it is virtually imprudent to purchase new hardware about a year before an anticipated OS change.

Remenber that it is only a few lines of code that separates a user from his legacy hardware. It is called a driver.

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Vista compatability issues.
Mar 14, 2007 11:05AM PDT

Micro$oft Window$ started out as a collection of programs that were collected to run together under DOS (formerly QDOS for quick and dirty operating system). If they operate under the same culture,and there is no evidence to the contrary it is still a collection of programs cobbled together to work. It was painfully obvious with patch after patch in XP and 2000. I am not suprised that Vista is not a rollout. Like all their other iterations of operating systems they are more like birthing processes.

That is why I switched to Mac.

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Life is complicated, and vendors are in denial
Mar 14, 2007 11:06AM PDT

There's plenty of blame to share on this one, but Microsoft is going to be the one with egg on their face.
I had a similar experience with SP2 for Windows XP, when my hardware vendor flatly stated that they didn't support it. When I persevered, Microsoft provided excellent support(!). Later my hardware vendor came up to speed.
Introducing a new version of Windows is bound to involve a mountain of work, and although the vendors of hardware and software need to do their share, the ultimate responsibility lies with Microsoft to enlist these vendors. They also need to pay the price to cast wide net for beta testers amd pay close attention to their feedback.
Fortunately, my computers are relatively new, and by the time I need Windows Vista, maybe it will be ready for me.

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Windows Vista Bugs
Mar 14, 2007 11:08AM PDT

While Microsoft attempted to sell us all on their arduous efforts to ensure that Vista had no bugs, it was nevertheless incumbent upon hardware and software vendors to insure that their products worked with Vista.
I did my first computer build--relatively successfully, although my new Memorex 18x DVD multi-format burner is incompatible with Vista! According to Memorex website this is their newest DVD burner. Further, Nero advises that they will not support the software for the software was bundled with Memorex's product.
This situation is an embarrassment for Memorex and Nero (and tangentially for Microsoft.

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I dont want a Mac.
Mar 14, 2007 11:13AM PDT

I agree. It's really not Microsoft's fault at all. We knew this was coming out since like 2002. There's been beta and alpha testing for almost THREE YEARS. Vendor's have to get off their asses and work! And don't tell me mac's are better either. If i wanted to run 1/10 of the software i currently do I'd buy a mac. Also, dual booting macs with windows is also crap because the hardware is so limited you really get a limitedly upgradeable p.o.s. Microsoft did a great job and this is a great operating system. If anything, run OS X on a PC! It's against the licensing agreement of apple though so i'm not saying you should but there are fixed versions out there that work on PC. The ultimate solution, Vista and OS X on a PC.

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PC vs Mac
Mar 14, 2007 11:09AM PDT

Congratulatons! Better late than never. Just make the move to Mac and all those complaints you've listed will become dim memories.

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vista
Mar 14, 2007 11:10AM PDT

vista should hyave been worked on some more,before it was released to the public.viswta is just not ready for a who;e lot of computer systems yet.vista,was just not ready yet.it does not work well enough yet with enough drivers, to be worth having.i t would have to have a whole lot more work done on it,before i would ever use it.there are just to many bugs in the vista system to be used.the government will not even use it.

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Third party problems
Mar 14, 2007 11:11AM PDT

I read so many posts by folks with problems, I decided to hedge my bet. I partitioned my HD and now have a dual boot for XP and Vista. For any programs that don't work in Vista, I boot to XP and use it! Once all non-compatible programs are updated to work with Vista, I'll remove XP.

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windows vista
Mar 14, 2007 11:12AM PDT

I consider an operating system full of incompatibilities as a virus itself. The chracteristics of a virus making softwares inoperable as well as making hardwares seem defective and nonfunctional is viral in character.vista os when i tried on my hp printer 7200 photo series won't work. I have trouble with my microtek scanner sometimes it works then flops! softwares are rejected....waste of my money just for the want of a vista.I think windows vista is exclussive for now, its for the rich,who can buy its insatiable demands.

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Totally agree.....
Mar 14, 2007 11:15AM PDT

You are so right.... A large bit of population can't afford to upgrade entire systems just so they can have compatibility at home...

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We need an Alternative to Microsoft!!!
Mar 14, 2007 11:12AM PDT

I'm tired of new platforms. We need an alternative to Microsoft. Just when the current platform is somewhat stable Bill releases a new OS. Every release is more expensive and has 2x as many bugs as the previous version. Its become a bad joke. Bill is laughing all the way to the bank. OS3 Warp was superior to Windows too bad it didn't catch on. When an alternative becomes available I will buy it.

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Windows Vista..... Not for me
Mar 14, 2007 11:12AM PDT

I considered getting the upgrade, but when I found out how much hard drive space it took something like 15gigs I was appalled!!! I am sorry everyone that I have spoken with that has Vista has had nothing but trouble.... If I had the money I would swith to Mac... But then there are the games that I have that wouldn't work so I would be stuck whenever I wanted to play a game... Oh well I am just going to stay with XP it works well for me and I think I will stick with it... In my opinion they released it too soon.....

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Macs do windows too
Mar 14, 2007 11:26AM PDT

Of course, not having enough money to buy it is one thing, however, for all the people who say they can't move to the mac because of this or that... You have a special game, or another special program that only runs in windows... You can run windows on your mac too, if you need to. All new intel macs will run windows as well as mac os. Apple has a freely downloadable program, called Boot Camp that basically gives you a driver disk for windows and creates a partition on the hard drive where you can install Windows XP SP2. If you need to, you just hold one key when starting up to choose the mac or windows partition. If you already own an XPSP2 disc, then this is completely free..

You also have the option of getting a program called Parallels for about $79, that will allow you to use intels built in virtualization and run mac and windows at the same time.. at full speed. It's virtualized, but not emulated. Eventually, you'll find that you really don't need the windows partition any more and can just delete it.

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Vista Frustration
Mar 14, 2007 11:14AM PDT

I've had a couple of problems with incompatible software, but the one that bugs me the most, is that my favorite 3 button mouse won't work with Vista. I have hunted high and low, and cannot find a 3 button mouse that is supposed to work.

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3 button mouse
Mar 14, 2007 11:23AM PDT

Try a wireless logitech trackman. Works fine. (the wheel is a third button.

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Microsoft Mice Don't Work?
Mar 14, 2007 11:29AM PDT

Try pushing down on the scroll wheel?

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3 button mouse
Mar 14, 2007 1:51PM PDT

"3 button mouse" I have 3 wireless mouses that work . Microsoft has an update for their laser 6000

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Make the move
Mar 14, 2007 11:14AM PDT

Move to Apple. I currently have a Macbook pro, Powermac G5, and a Gateway laptop running Vista (my girlfreinds). Though her laptop meets the requirements, it still does not touch the ease of use that was promised. I had not real problems with Windows until Vista other than security and audio driver stability. Now, I will continue my life on my Macs because for audio and graphics work, even the new architecture still does not compare in Windows. Even my girlfreind wishes she had a mac now.

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To whon should we put the blame?
Mar 14, 2007 11:15AM PDT

Hi,
First of all, forgive me for English mistakes, since it isn't my native language.
Well, I'm not exactly the one that can say anything about Vista, since I'm still running Windows XP. Nevertheless, my opinion about third-party softwares and hardwares incompatibilities with Vista is that it should be shared the blame among MS and vendors. MS, as a dominant OS with its Windows, should release a product AFTER intensive compatibilities test for, at least, the main softwares and hardwares in the market. It seems that this wasn't followed. In the other hand, vendors should keep in mind the MS predominance and, thus, adjusted their products to the new Vista. In short, I think that both (MS and vendors) have some parcel of blame on this.
Roberto Almeida.

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sucks for you guys
Mar 14, 2007 11:23AM PDT

as a relatively new mac user (dec 06), i can laugh at all of you guys. Im totally going to put this on Microsoft, becuase they should be accomidating the hardware. If people know that Vista doesnt work on older machines (which i find hilarious anyway) and then they they hear that the old drivers dont work, they are going to be forced to buy a new computer if the XP blows up (which is what happened to me). Then they'll say "well this will most likly happen again", then they'll look at Apple's record, and buy a mac.

And don't even get me started about viruses

Microsoft did a great job of supporting Apple didnt they


www.apple.com/getamac/

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Macs and Viruses
Mar 14, 2007 2:03PM PDT

Mac user's think they don't have virus problems. That is because there are so few of them the virus writers don't care about them. Mac's are prone to viruses same as a PC, but at this point the virus writers do a lot more damage by concentrating on PC's. Get in the real world.

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True scotts54 but...
Mar 16, 2007 10:15AM PDT

That is true Scott but the reality is that there ARE currently fewer viruses for Macs and that is the point. Minority or not, Macs are excellent machines. The majority of people are ignorant but that does not mean igonorance is better. PC's are riddled with issues - hunting 3rd party drivers, constant security upgrades that, at any time can render a thrid party device unworkable. Microsoft, at its core is the problem and that is what people are saying. They cannot prepare the 3rd party world for their updates and companies have to "Figure out" what to do after the fact while consumers wait months and possibly years for a fix. I bought an Intel webcam and waited almost 2 years before the driver software was released for XP. Macs are different - all that stuff works because it is together and tested. People used to complain about Macs because they were so much more expensive but now there is very little difference in $$$. Now that Macs can run windows too it helps a lot of people who would be forced to run Windows for work etc. They can use the crummy OS at work and use the good one for the rest of their life - those that are forced to use MS. The mac is sold as an appliance almost but at least it works. After all, for what most people use personal computers for, the mac outshines a PC in simplicity alone.