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Windows Automatic Update problem

by cnot-21633789961875749448042505902843 / May 13, 2010 7:49 PM PDT

I am running XP Professional. The latest Windows update (released 11/05/10) contained three files which seemed to install correctly. However, a few minutes later the Windows Update icon appeared again in my notification area so I thought there was an additional update - one file was showing so I installed it. A few minutes later the same thing happened again. I decided to shutdown and found the Windows Update installation logo attached to the Turn Off button. I clicked this, the installation procedure ran and then my system shut down.

The next time I started up my system, the Windows Automatic Update icon appeared again in my notification area. I ignored it and eventually it disappeared. When I next shut down the system I found the Windows Update installation logo attached to the Turn Off button once more. This now happens every time I close down my system although the Update icon no longer appears in the notification are.

The problem update is Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 2 Security Update for Windows 2000, Windows Server 2003, and Windows XP (KB974417). The status is ticked as successfully installed in the Update History (this occurs for each instance I had chosen the install on shut down).

On searching my system, I have found references to KB974417 in 'My Recent Documents' folder, in 'C:\Windows\System 32\config\systemprofile\local settings\temp' folder and in the 'C:\Windows\Prefetch\' folder where it is shown as NDP20SP2-KB974417-K86.EXE-32B94C66.pf. I can find no other occurrences.

While my system does not seem affected in any other way and is running normally, the constant need to opt to shut down without installing (the already installed) update is irritating.

Any ideas on how to deal with this irritation would be appreciated. Thanks

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Try this . . .
by Coryphaeus / May 13, 2010 10:16 PM PDT

Control Panel, Add/Remove, check Show updates. Scroll down to the offending update and uninstall it. Turn off Automatic updates. Go to Windows update and click Custom. See if the update is listed. If so, install it. Keep Automatic updates turned off and go to Windows Update once a month. Manually.

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Windows Automatic Update problem
by cnot-21633789961875749448042505902843 / May 13, 2010 11:39 PM PDT
In reply to: Try this . . .

Hi Coryphaeus,

Thanks for your advice. I have carried this out but I see this as an interim measure. It solves part of the problem but the background to the problem still exists and, of course, I now have the Windows Security Alerts icon showing in my notification area because I have turned off automatic updates. However this will be a reminder to me to check for updates every month which I will do using the custom setting as you advise - I guess that KB974417 will always be listed with the other updates until the problem is resolved. Perhaps there will be a permanent fix released soon.

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Permanent fix?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 13, 2010 11:57 PM PDT

Given the history of this issue and we are now past the 10 year mark on this OS it is likely that the permanent fix is for MSFT to end support. Updates have failed in many ways in the past 10 years so given the history, why would I expect this to get fixed on an OS that is now so old? No, don't tell me it's used by millions. This won't stop it from being swept away by its maker.
Bob

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Windows Automatic Update
by cnot-21633789961875749448042505902843 / May 14, 2010 3:11 AM PDT
In reply to: Permanent fix?

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your comments even if you are not very hopeful that there will be an eventual solution. I would have thought that this particular issue was not too difficult to solve. This is the first Windows update problem I have experienced with XP Professional and it happened at the beginning of this week. Are you saying that KB974417 has been a known problem source since before last Tuesday's release? If it had been released before, why have I only just got it?

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The fixes are farily well worn.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 14, 2010 3:16 AM PDT

From manually downloading the patch to uninstalling an antivirus suite that blocked it up to "other."

The problem as I see it is that today's owners are not comfortable with all the workarounds but are wanting these things to "just work."

MSFT has done better but isn't quite there on Windows 7 but I do find updates are a little less problematic on 7. This does nothing for those on older Windows but is a sign. What sort of sign depends on your POV.
Bob

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Windows Automatic Update problem
by cnot-21633789961875749448042505902843 / May 14, 2010 6:49 AM PDT

Hi Bob,

I'm sorry but I am not sure what you mean in your first sentence. If you are suggesting that I manually downloaded KB974417 and uninstalled anti-virus software that had previously blocked KB974417 to "other", then that is not the case. I have been running the same anti-virus application for some time and kept it regularly updated with no problems except for occasional false positives which have been easily resolved. KB974417 was originally downloaded and installed via Windows Automatic update and that was on Tuesday 11/05/2010. In my efforts to resolve the issue I have since uninstalled it and then manually installed it but with the problem continuing.

With regard to your next sentence, I am happy to use a workaround on a temporary basis but would hope that a solution could be found to avoid the need to use a workaround on a permanent basis. In my own, perhaps somewhat limited, programming experience I have always endeavoured to find solutions after having to use workarounds.

Anyway, thanks for your continued interest.

Chris.

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It's possible you have an ATI video card.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 14, 2010 7:02 AM PDT

But without knowing that I can't comment deeply but know .NET 2.0 updates can be problematic for reasons discussed on other discussions.

What I find is that most folk don't want to share all the needed details and again it's back to Microsoft as most want this stuff to just work.

Sorry that the clues are scarce but I read your posts twice and can't see where the machine details are so I can't guess if you tried the usual of safe mode KB installs, no antivirus method, and other.

But there's the catch and the question. Why would you want to try all that? Many want this to "just work" or "just install."
Bob

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Windows Automatic Update problem

Hi Bob,

No, I do not have an ATI video card. What Machine details do you require? My system information is as follows:

OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name HOME-1B06BAA23A
System Manufacturer Packard Bell BV
System Model AWRDACPI
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 4 Stepping 7 GenuineIntel ~2793 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Phoenix Technologies, LTD W7301VP2.024, 09/10/2006
SMBIOS Version 2.4
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5687 (xpsp_sp3_qfe.080930-1426)"
User Name HOME-1B06BAA23A\Chris
Time Zone GMT Daylight Time
Total Physical Memory 2,048.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 1.11 GB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 4.85 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

Is that what you need?

I have not tried a Safe Mode install but doubt that it would provide a solution.

Thanks and regards, Chris.

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At least we know it's not that.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 14, 2010 9:40 PM PDT

As I noted most do not want to work around this. You seem to be one of those. And my guess about the ATI+.NET issue was just that, a guess. Some get upset when we guess but it's a common issue so I have to try.

What's left?

1. Try to install the KB in safe mode.
2. Since it is .NET, we can also uninstall all of .NET since it is optional for most folk. Then you can decide to install just the .NET your software required along with this patch. Here's how to uninstall all of .NET -> http://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archive/2005/04/08/406671.aspx

Item 2 is a good example where MSFT could do better and FIX install failures. You have to use other folk's tools to fix a MSFT issue.
Bob

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Windows Automatic Update problem
by cnot-21633789961875749448042505902843 / May 15, 2010 3:48 AM PDT

Hi Bob,

Thanks for all your efforts, I appreciate the interest you have shown in my case. I see this issue is getting ever more complicated but as KB974417 is actually installed on my system, (or at least the Windows Update History and my own system suggest that it is,) then for the time being I will work around the problem by manually updating Windows on a regular monthly basis. My system is working normally in all other respects so perhaps it is best not to mess (if it ain't broke don't mend it etc.) which is probably what you were suggesting originally.

It's been great talking to you and thanks again for your suggestions.

Chris.

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Windows Automatic Update problem
by Rollie Lee / May 19, 2010 10:34 AM PDT

Bob
Try this out if you want to anyway I found that when I have a problem that I cant find the answer to I will back up all files and than reinstall my OS than fix the Auto to manual updates and it for the most paret fixes the problem. Good luck
Rollie

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Never needed to try that out.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 19, 2010 8:09 PM PDT

I have worked this one too many times. Removing .Net usually clears it up but that's not the direction of the discussion I thought you wanted to take. Above you were looking for "Perhaps there will be a permanent fix released soon."

Microsoft and other companies continue to issue less than perfect or permanent fixes. What we end up doing is learning how to deal with these items but excuse me if I misread your posts above. Maybe you are looking for something else?
Bob

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Security Alerts icon
by Coryphaeus / May 14, 2010 3:07 AM PDT

It's easy to turn that off. Double click it. When it opens look on the left and choose "Change how Windows alerts me . . ." or something like that. Uncheck what you wish.

I've never used Automatic Updates because of your problem and as Bob says, millions others. Sometimes an update just will not work. Wife's laptop had a similar problem with another update although I do it manually. She's never missed the update and I've never had to fix her machine because of a missed update.

Don't count on that update problem being resolved. Updates are sent out the second Tuesday of every month. And your computer will not melt down if you miss it for a day or two.

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Windows Automatic Update problem
by cnot-21633789961875749448042505902843 / May 14, 2010 3:33 AM PDT
In reply to: Security Alerts icon

Hi Coryphaeus,

Thanks for the information. Your suggestion has been acted upon. I'll set a reminder to check for updates on the second Tuesday of every month in my calendar.

Chris.

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Windows Automatic Update problem
by cnot-21633789961875749448042505902843 / May 17, 2010 8:01 PM PDT

Hi everybody,

In trawling the internet regarding this issue, I found the following page on another forum that may be of interest:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...0-54658ca83c66

It does not solve my problem but it is reassuring to see that this is a known issue and is not something down to me. It seems the problem has been running for some time so I am confused as to why I have only just (Tuesday 11 May 2010) been offered the KB974417 update when I have had Windows update set to automatic all along until now. It also seems odd that KB976569, which was on my system, contains newer versions of files than KB974417 which appears to have removed it from my system. KB976569 will not reinstall while KB974417 is installed.

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Permanent fix? (2)
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 19, 2010 8:52 PM PDT

Just to share. My brother returned a loaner laptop with Vista. Since it was out on loan I used the restore media to bring it back to a known good starting point.

After the restore I hooked it up to the internet behind the router and let Windows Update run.

TWENTY ONE Windows Update install failures and that's on a fresh factory install.

While I've seen this for years there appears to be no "permanent fix" to these issues 5 years later.

-> My point? Nothing's perfected yet but we have ways to deal with such things.
Bob

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Windows Automatic Update problem
by cnot-21633789961875749448042505902843 / May 19, 2010 10:00 PM PDT

As the originator of this thread, which is now getting rather lengthy, I will summarize my present position after reading the advice given in this forum.

I have set my system so that I have to manually obtain Windows updates and will opt to use the custom option. I have chosen to hide the troublesome KB974417 which otherwise shows as an update waiting to be installed even though the log shows it as successfully installed.

Since the problem first occurred on my system (with the regular Windows Automatic Update released on Tuesday 11 May 2010), I have carried out a few tests relating to advice given and items found elsewhere on the internet. I have found the following for my system (running Windows XP Professional):

i) KB974417 will not install if KB976569 is installed - the log shows this error if I attempt the installation:

no products found to patch!
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] Entering Function: HotIron::MspInstallerT::PerformMsiOperation...
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::MspInstallerT<class HotIron::ApplicablePatchPackages>::InternalFindProductsToBeUpdated) no products found to patch!
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::MspInstallerT<class HotIron::ApplicablePatchPackages>::PerformMsiOperation) exiting function/method
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::MspInstallerT<class HotIron::ApplicablePatchPackages>::PerformMsiOperation) no products to be updated
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::CBaseMspInstaller::Install) PerformMsiOperation returned 0x66A
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::CBaseMspInstaller::Install) exiting function/method
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::CBaseMspInstaller::Install) PerformMsiOperation returned 0x66A
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::CompositeInstaller::Install) Composite Installer is reporting 0x8007066A - The upgrade patch cannot be installed by the Windows Installer service because the program to be upgraded may be missing, or the upgrade patch may update a different version of the program. Verify that the program to be upgraded exists on your computer an d that you have the correct upgrade patch.
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::CompositeInstaller::Install) exiting function/method
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::CompositeInstaller::Install) The upgrade patch cannot be installed by the Windows Installer service because the program to be upgraded may be missing, or the upgrade patch may update a different version of the program. Verify that the program to be upgraded exists on your computer an d that you have the correct upgrade patch.
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] (HotIron::Main::Run) Final Result: Installation failed with error code: (0x8007066A).
[5/19/2010, 16:47:57] Action: Start Watson Manifest work...
[5/19/2010, 16:47:59] Action complete
[5/19/2010, 16:47:59] (HotIron::LogUtils::LogFinalResult) Final Result: Installation failed with error code: (0x0000066A), "The upgrade patch cannot be installed by the Windows Installer service because the program to be upgraded may be missing, or the upgrade patch may update a different version of the program. Verify that the program to be upgraded exists on your computer and that you have the correct upgrade patch. ".

KB976569 was not previously installed on my system but I found references to it in relation to KB974417 including: 'uninstall KB976569, install KB974417 then reinstall KB976569'. (Windows Update offered me KB976569 as a non-critical update so I experimented with it);

ii) Removing KB976569 allows KB974417 to install;

iii) Reinstalling KB976569 (or installing it if it was not previously on the system) removes KB974417 from the system.

Thanks to all who have offered advice. I will not be reinstalling the operating system, however, the minor irritations caused by the KB974417 issue do not warrant the hassle - that is a last resort but thanks for the suggestion.

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I read that a few times and here's my question.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 19, 2010 10:06 PM PDT

Why not uninstall .NET? These patches are for .NET and it seems to be an easy fix. Then again I could be misreading your posts above as to the "permanent fix" you wrote about. Microsoft is not issuing such a thing but we do have options.
Bob

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Ok
by Rollie Lee / May 19, 2010 10:52 PM PDT

If you want to do it that way ok And if it don't take care of the issue I would than re-install my OS doing this will fix that issue and any others you are haveing that you may or may not be aware of If you do wind up doing the re-instal turn off the auto updates and install them manually. I only tell you this becouse this is what I windid up haveing to do there might be another way to do it that will fix the problem but I never did find it so if you do post it for me ok? thanks Rollie

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Rollie.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 19, 2010 11:33 PM PDT
In reply to: Ok

I posted how I dealt with this issue. Since it seems you missed it I ask you read the discussion again.
Bob

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ok
by Rollie Lee / May 20, 2010 12:25 AM PDT
In reply to: Rollie.

I agree with you on that I was just adding that if that did not soe the problem for Bob that he may want to Back up and reinstall his OS that would solve the problem would it not?

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No it does NOT fix this.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 20, 2010 1:01 AM PDT
In reply to: ok

I offered above where I performed a recovery on an old system and again with the update failures.

Not that it rendered the system unusable but imagine those out there that don't know about removal tools, safe mode and how to manually install an update?
Bob

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Bob re: uninstalling the .Net

I did try to uninstall .Net Framework 2.0 but received messages that I could not do that because of its relationship to other applications on my system. Most of the update files that had been added to it were listed as 'cannot be removed' in the 'Add / Remove Programs' window. As it looked potentially troublesome to push further down that road, I chickened out. My present work around, although perhaps not ideal, gives me no nightmares but I would be grateful for any advice and reassurances regarding the details of uninstalling/reinstalling the .Net bearing in mind my previous experience. Thanks.

P.S. Is the reference on the Windows Update page to 'Download size 0KB, 0minutes (Downloaded: ready to install)' significant in this issue. It looks like they are saying a file containing nothing is ready to install.

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Which is why
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 20, 2010 12:59 AM PDT

I noted another tool to force the uninstall. Since we can reinstall the 2.0 later if need be, this is how I've dealt with this one for years.

So again, there is no permanent fix from Microsoft which is something you asked for. If you feel like pursuing that, I feel for you and offered my Vista experience from yesterday where a clean install resulted in exactly the same issues you are reporting. Again out with the same old tools, maybe a boot to safe mode and it's working again.

But think about it. Is this system ready for "consumers"? I think not.
Bob

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