General discussion

Windows 10 Spring 2018 update leads to endless PC reboots

This is a new problem being faced all over the Windows 10 user world... April 2018 update led to endless PC reboot for many computers.

I've faced the situation since last Tuesday. My PC went through the usual regular / forced update by Microsoft for their Windows 10 OS last Monday evening. After that, since Tuesday morning, my PC has been rebooting itself non-stop.

I went through two days of agonizing MS tech support and their knowledge is very limited. They tried all the basic stuff and all the way up to using Rufus and Media Creation Tool installation. Nothing worked. On the "fourth" day (today) Microsoft level 2 tech support was supposed to get in touch with me as per a preset date/time. They didn't call; instead, emailed me that they couldn't reach my phone. I checked and of course they had a wrong number! They had the right number when they confirmed the time the first place and I can't understand how they ended up calling a different number on the day of the call.

In any case, I called them directly and after 2+ hours of listening to their phone ads while waiting for tech support (first India and then US), I finally gave up. I did something I should have done on day one ... took off the hard drive and installed it on an older PC as a storage drive. I was able to access all my files and get on with my life within an hour. I am going to format and reinstall OS tomorrow but at least the day ended with less anxiety today.

Anyone face this issue I have with the endless reboot? Luckily I found my way out on my own, but what about others who are stuck? What's the cure? Thanks!

--Submitted by Tawfiq H.

Post was last edited on June 8, 2018 1:39 PM PDT

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Sounds familiar

Although mine weren't constant reboots, I had so many it was dizzying. It seemed every time I shut down or started up, there was the update. So much for logging on quick to find something in the am or shutting down quick in a storm (and we did lost power). I read that as a default, it does not update between 8 am and 5 pm and these times can be changed. Why? I came back one day and it updated at 3:30 in the afternoon when it wasn't supposed to. Twice after updating, my computer froze. Once the background image came up and the other time, it wouldn't even do that. I was swearing wondering if I'd have to take a new machine and try a system restore and/or try to undo the update. We should be able to choose when we want it done!

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Constant reboots

I also have this problem big time. I have to unplug my desktop to shut it off and reboot daily (or several times daily). Totally frustrating. I don't have the sophisticated knowledge to know what to do other than keep repeating this. If I could undo the Windows 10 update, I would. From what I'm seeing this is a major problem caused by the Windows 10 update. Any suggestions for a novice but active computer user?

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After i downloaded that update my would not even boot up i had to reload windows which is why I normally don't want auto updates till i see what happened to others. the one time I let it auto update..well not again!

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Me too

Same issue with my wife’s i7 HP ... a royal pain in the butt ... also had to reinstall a fresh copy of windows. If we weren’t so invested in Windows I’d move to Linux

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Three days wasted.

All three of my computers, HP and Lenevo, failed to boot after the April update. I had to interrupt the endless loop black screen and boot failure to access the BIOS and told the computers to look for a CD to boot from. When they did not find the CD, they each, in a different way, gave me a chance to reset them. Resetting lost all my installed programs and some data. Then I could reinstall Windows.

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This and similar severe loss of control issues might be part of why Apple is the largest company in the world right now.

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Yes especially their phone and ipad sales, too expensive for what you get, it's years now that I have Win 10, no major problems for me.

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Re: response

No, it's not. Walmart is the largest company in the world. Apple is the largest keylogger.

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Ohh, yeahhh ... in all the ICT-history ... [Off-topic]

… and, also the same on other branches, there has always been coming up the very best!, all the greatest!, a.s.o., world top leader on some branch/niche, stumbling on very simple, but extremely dangerous "features", leading to a total collapse!

One of them have been, loosing the control of their massive organization and it's behaviour simply due to the massive dimensions, another maybe leaning and believing on their eternal invincibility and forgetting some substantive product development and not noting the general market changes, and, and, name some more ……

Both MS and Apple with their different technical base solutions are on the same (different) boat, despite their trillion$$$ assets, regarding all these simple "daily" problems! But, noting, that on servers/desktops/laptops (excl. tablets/phones?) there is a certain maybe 1/10 difference on size of the total installed base between them!

As also previously pinpointing this, there can't be all-all 100% coverable Updates/Upgrades for 100's of mill. machines with, let's say, 100 mill. of different configurations in all deep details, not to mention all the different usage and usage habits of them and possible software/driver installation failures or malware infections etc. hidden issues involved! Maybe someone could name still some more problems affecting causes on all this "mess" ...

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Sounds Interesting

I'd like to read more about this. I'm pretty sure that most of Apple is all about their iPhone and iPad since their MACs are not exactly the biggest market share. But it's an interesting concept. Can you give me a link to where it says that Apple is the largest company in the world?

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isn't the biggest auto producer, but who wouldn't want to have one? Few.

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Largest in what way?

The lists that I have seen put Walmart at # 1 with the highest revenue and Apple at #9 with about 1/2 the revenue of Walmart. However, I have seen Apple as listed as one of the most profitable companies. But that may only show how inflated their prices are?
But again what is your definition of Largest?
The Largest number of employees?
The Highest revenue?
The company with the most assets?
The company that occupies the most square footage of real state?

It really is an amazing story how Apple was pretty much going out of business until they came out with the first iPod back in 2001-2002. I was working for CompUSA at the time and when the iPod arrived it pretty much wiped out sales for all the other MP3 players. And now today, they have discontinued those players.

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why they were successful

Yes and the only reason they became successful was they let Win computers work with the i pods and not just Macs.

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in terms of Market Cap, Apple is the biggest
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Depends on What You Read

Post was last edited on June 21, 2019 1:04 PM PDT

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Graphic drivers might be the was last Fall

Last Fall, on of the PC I up (or was it down?) graded to Win 10 from Win 7 has this issue...I eventually realized it was the graphics drivers. I had been updating them from NVIDIA but Win 10 was not liking them...I uninstalled them and then installed the older ones Windows Update suggested. This was an issue win Win 7 too, btw.

Anyway, I reverted back to Win 7 after reading all the horror stories the Fall update caused...and now it's Spring time for another snafu brought to you by MS.

If you have the Pro version of Win 10, delay updates until the dust settles and the bugs are worked out is my suggestion...and always have a good clone drive of a working version of Windows to swap in should all else fail. Need I mention that you should keep your data on a separate drive, and backup regularly?

To err is human, to really screw up you need Microsoft and a computer.


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How do you delay the update?

How do you delay the update?

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Re: delay update
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I have updated 6 machines, three laptops and two desktops (one of which is over 7 years old) to 1809. In all instances the update itself completed without a hitch.

I have had no subsequent trouble (of literally ANY kind) with the desktops. On the laptops I had the same trouble on all three, the creation (or mounting) of a partition as Drive D: that was filled so near to capacity that I received "Disk Nearly Full" warnings constantly. But the drives appeared totally empty in File Manager, and Disk Manager could perform no functions on them.

To correct the problem I had to go to an elevated command part and run "DiskPart" (you can find how to use this on Google). I simply formatted the partition, solving the problem, but DiskPart uses an archaic syntax that I haven't seen since old DEC Vax mainframes running VMS, so find some instructions and take care.

There are some reports that claim that the anti-malware application Avast is to blame for the endless reboot problem. If you have to update to 1809 I would suggest removing that application beforehand and reinstalling it from a fresh distribution once you are up and running.

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Are Those Disk SSDs?

If you have systems with very old 64-gb SSD drives, then it is quite possible that the drive, itself, is FULL while Windows says that it is empty. Some early 64-gb SSD's had "bugs" in the firmware that would manifest as:

a) Drive is full but Windows shows empty
b) Very slow. Extremely slow as compared to HDD.

Solution, is to get the exact make and model of the drive and find the firmware for it. Re-flash the firmware with the latest. I had to do this many years ago. I got errors from Symantec's central console that the guy's laptop was full but the user REFUSED to believe it and laughed it off. After he left the department, I verified the issue with the drive firmware. The firmware was not deleting anything from the actual drive and its bit-map even though Windows structures indicated something else. (Was not MS problem; was firmware issue).

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why do people do this?

Say they had "no problems" then talk about all the problems they had?

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Past vs. Present

Because many of us have had problems in the past, but no real problem with the current issue (such as, the 1803 update). For example, I had a "problem back in January with a "cumulative update" that concerned me as I didn't even find out about it until I was preparing for 1803. As a result, I was able to run a bunch of troubleshooting steps that helped make sure 1803 went in smoothly. Sometimes, working out issues or non-issues in the present, requires us to look at the past. Yes, I agree that it can be confusing. What some of us are saying is that, stuff that went wrong in the past, helped us make sure current activities go smoothly. Also, minor "mishaps" are not considered "problems" by some. For example, on 1803, I had a black screen for about 20-30 minutes during the last of the reboots. Minor issue. I just waited and everything was fine. If I had reacted "Oh, my God! A black screen!", then I might have done something foolish like power off the computer. It was a "NON-ISSUE". Not a "problem"/

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7 updates is a fairly small number

After reviewing my client base and the total number of Windows 10 computers in service, I am seeing about 1 computer per hundred with some form of problem after the update and 1 in 500 that required a full reinstall of Windows 10. So your not seeing this problem after upgrading only 7 computers is not unrealistic.

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You're going to get a very high percentage waytron. Why?

Because folk bring us their troubles your percentage will be far higher than in the wild.

As to losing 7 computers that would be very interesting to see what's common. It could be all were the now not supported Atom CPU or all had some common app installed that has been found out to be toxic to the upgrade. That remains a mystery for now as the 7 machine owner needs to get with their support and figure out what happened.

Post was last edited on June 12, 2018 12:12 PM PDT

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Good Point, Bob

When I was still working, just being assigned to a customer we got to see the worst of the worst, from users who could not figure out how to use a mouse (to the extent we had to leave solitaire on their computer so they can practice) to having to deal with crime scene tape the FBI stuck across cubicles. But, at least in my environment, MOST of the hardware was the same, so, if you had a driver issue, you had a LOT of the same issue. And all of the settings got "ghosted" in as well. We saw more problems with "the privileged few". Basically, directors and managers who got what they wanted even if it was against the rules. I still guess a lot of this is going to be drivers that are not kept up-to-date, especially with laptops and, of course, anyone running AVAST or AVG (BTW, Norton was NOT an issue).

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I'm Dreaming, of Course

I'm dreaming, of course, but I'd like to see someone from Microsoft stand up and say something reasonable about how they are dealing with the problem, and maybe even provide real honest-to-gosh technical resources to help individual users and companies that have been plagued by this issue. People have lost many hours of productive time dealing with these Microsoft-created messes. Class-action? In the current US political regime, unlikely. In the EU? Sanctions and fines, perhaps.

So far, I am among the lucky ones, with my three systems all seemingly running the April 2018 update of Windows 10. But, I have reluctantly gotten paid by some of the unfortunate people whose systems are bricked, to unbrick their systems.

And does Microsoft do? They all hunker down and say nothing, while trying to fixed yet another god-awful update they have produced. No longer can Microsoft use the excuse of widely varying hardware for which their trash Windows product needs to be compatible. The industry is now down to pretty small numbers of companies that manufacture processors, motherboard chipsets, audio, wifi, Ethernet. No excuse except ongoing Microsoft incompetence in the most important discipline of software engineering.

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They Have

They are blaming most of the issues on AVAST (who also makes AVG). I'm not an insider, so I don't know all of the technical details, but, supposedly ONE line of code in AVG/AVAST software has been playing havoc with this update. Anti-Malware software runs with some elevated privileges because AV software needs to get into things most users cannot on their own. I'm just reporting what I've read.

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I wonder if the AV is hitting....

....that peer to peer sharing of updates from personal computers to other people the home user doesn't even know across the internet? I still expect someone to hack into that system and turn it into one of the biggest exploits we've seen in awhile.

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I Turned That Off

If nothing else, most places have limited bandwidth. I don't need large file transfers running in and out of my network. I'll have to find somewhere to read up on the exact technical issue involving AVAST/AVG. You would think that a user program would not be able to mess up something like an update; that MS should be able to handle that. In my youth, I managed to hang up an entire mainframe computer by testing stuff but that was because I was an administrator and allowed myself to run realtime processes. If you think about it, an A/V malware program has to run higher than users just to have access to everything on the system. But still...

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Not really a "user program"

As you surmised, anti-virus programs must hook themselves deep into the OS in order to thwart virus intrusions. There was a quirk that Avast was relying on in a call that disappeared or changed in the latest update.

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