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General discussion

Windows 10 privacy policy: Should I be concerned?

Feb 5, 2016 5:33PM PST

My question isn't so much a technical question, but it is over concerns of Windows 10 privacy. Windows 10 has been out for over 6 months, many have moved on and upgraded to Windows 10, yet many have chosen to stay put. And one of the biggest reasons that I have read on the Internet that people are resisting the move on to 10 is Microsoft's ability to snoop and collect data on people who use it. I understand the user has the ability to turn some of these privacy settings off in Windows 10 to prevent them from collecting data on your computing behaviors, but others have said that they still collect data from you regardless of what settings you turn off. If this is true, how would one know if they were? I know that oftentimes people overreact to some of these privacy policy concerns, but I continue to read about these privacy complaints and now I'm wondering if it's even worth moving on to 10. Should I be concerned or has paranoia set in for me? What are the thoughts of those who are Windows 10 users now, are you concerned? What do I have to lose in terms of privacy if I move to 10? Thanks for your thoughts.

--Submitted by Ted C.

Discussion is locked

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Be a little paranoid!
Feb 5, 2016 7:28PM PST

Here is the nub of the Windows 10 privacy problem. Say you install Windows 10 and you get to a choice of "Express Settings" or "Custom Settings". DO NOT choose Express Settings!!!! Click on custom settings, read each one carefully and you will probably turn most of them OFF. When I set up Windows 10 systems for myself (two) and for customers, I turn off all of the custom settings except the one that allows Microsoft to collect information about software failures. Otherwise, you are giving away a lot of personal information that you probably ought not to. But you be the judge.

I should support this approach by doing some screen captures, accompanied a running commentary on each one of the settings. Maybe Lee will contract with me to do a short article. I wrote a few pieces for CNet back when it was just getting off the ground. Lee, can we discuss?

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Hi Ben
Feb 12, 2016 3:01PM PST

How about creating a new forum thread for the information you want to share? You can include images in your forum post and if the information you share is helpful I can pin it to the top of the Windows 10 forum.

Or did you have something different in mind?

Let me know.

Thanks,
-Lee

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Can do, but not right away
Feb 13, 2016 12:09AM PST

Lee, I am traveling out of the US right now, so I'm ill-prepared to do much. Will contact you when I am back... Ben

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Back in the USA
Feb 27, 2016 9:09AM PST

Lee, I'm back, and I still think a separate forum post won't do it. People need to see an article that marches them through all the Windows 10 "Custom Settings", explaining what each setting does and what it means. Contact me directly if you want, using the email address with which I am registered here.

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Re: Be a little paranoid!
Feb 12, 2016 7:59PM PST
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Be a Little Paranoid
Feb 24, 2016 7:32AM PST

Youtube privacy post. Right JJ, and there are many more such postings. Too bad there are so many people that don't believe Microsoft is Bad, Very Bad.

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Be a LITTLE Paranoid.
Feb 13, 2016 2:56AM PST

Ecellent advice. I should have included it in my first reply. Never do express settings. Always choose what you put on your system.

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Be a Little Paranoid
Feb 24, 2016 7:36AM PST

gtoguy, you need to listen to what the youtube posts are saying. You can't get around the privacy issues, they are embedded into the whole program so you can not circumvent the issue, no matter how you try. It stays there in the background, at all times.

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I agree
Feb 13, 2016 4:43AM PST

I do the same thing, Ben. I never sign in to a Microsoft Account because I will not agree that they may have my every key stroke and thought. I use it strictly as I did other systems, personalized and I never touch Edge or IE or Cortana. I don't need them, I already had other alternatives and I don't need a robot slave to find things for me. I have read the EULA, I make that a practice as deadly dull as most are, and I always choose custom installations so I can uncheck the little beasties that many software programs try to install along with their own program. I use Web of Trust, Adblock Plus, Blur and several other addons to protect my privacy. And that isn't because I am doing anything nefarious, it is because I don't stand outside my neighbor's house peering in their windows and I don't want anyone doing that to me either. I don't feel like I've given up anything by operating the way I do. And if I did, I'd still be happy knowing my privacy is as well contained as I can make it.

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Be a little Paranoid?
Feb 13, 2016 8:30AM PST

All I have to say to anyone that use's Win 10 is buyer beware. I personally still use 7 and even have a computer that is not hooked to the internet, never has been. I always check, scan, and recheck everything and disconnect from the internet if I have to Ghost over to my Virtual drive. Protection is worth a ton of cure.

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Most of us stay online so how do we stay "private"
Feb 13, 2016 8:49AM PST

I like the using the non-express installations and removing all the privacy invasion,tracking features and had not thought of that as something I should do automatically. Thanks.

RE all the stay offline, turn off internet connectivity, So who really wants to do all of that "protecting"? Few if any have time nor inclination to do that and who would go through all of that checking, turning off the internet, turning it back on, filter online connectivity as some have suggested here.

How about helping us real people re avoiding the invasion of privacy as something automatic while we use and or remain online in a way we ordinary folks can use?

BTW, most of us are connected to the internet - how do you think we get to see your comment in the first place.

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Not only that...
Feb 15, 2016 9:58PM PST

but anytime you try to use incognito schemes on browsers or what not, the web site you are trying to access will simply not let you use the content or any other features of the site. So I really wonder just what is the point of all this, other than we do need a comprehensive law or amendment to the constitution to put teeth in a basis for stopping or prosecuting the abuse of personally identifiable information.

Many many years ago Microsoft already got into trouble for doing this during the update cycle and got a pretty good hand slap, for doing that. However, in this age of Facebook and full transparency, the barriers have fallen and we will soon never be able to get that legal consideration back. Otherwise, until then, we are stuck with our privacy out the window, and our laundry flapping in the breeze for everyone to see.

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Re Be a little paranoid
Feb 14, 2016 2:44PM PST

I have been running Windows 10 since the beginning as an insider. I do not feel there is to much to worry about, just be care full and turn off as many of the settings as you can. Remember if Microsoft has its way all PC's will be upgraded to Windows 10.

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What is the most private alternative?
Feb 5, 2016 10:42PM PST

My decision to upgrade or not to not upgrade to Windows 10 has nothing to with privacy, and I think it is a bit unfair to hold Microsoft at a higher standard then other companies.

Do you own an apple device? Do you own an android device? Do you have a Facebook account, Twitter account, Google???

If you have ever read their EULA's, there are plenty of privacy red flags. Yet, we don't even think twice because we want the service. Microsoft, however, seems to be held at some kind of higher standard and I don't quite get it. How can Microsoft compete if we don't entertain the option of interconnectedness?

My issue with Windows 10 is driver, hardware, and software comparability. It is finding a stable OS for the software and hardware you own and need - but being forcibly upgraded to one that isn't.

I upgraded an older toshiba laptop to Windows 10 and bricked it. I replaced it with another new Windows 10 device and get similar video driver errors and am afraid of a similar demise on an expensive new device.

I have the exact same issues with IOS and hate apple for those reasons. I fear Windows 10, not for security but for the demise of a gaurunteed stable OS environment for a forced upgrade to a perpetual beta testing system created so that software companies have an excuse to charge us again for a program we already own, enjoy and don't need to replace.

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Spot on!
Feb 5, 2016 11:06PM PST

You are spot on with what you say about Windows 10! It is yet another of numerous releases of Windows that renders perfectly good hardware obsolete due to lack of drivers. Some people blame the hardware manufacturer for not updating the drivers, especially for consumer products like cheap printers and all-in-one devices. But Microsoft is the first and most fundamental cause of the problem of lack of drivers. Why? Because they change the driver model, which necessitates driver upgrades, and because they change the rules within the OS (Windows 10, for example) as to which drivers are acceptable to the OS.

I willingly accept that Google tracks my browsing habits. On the flip side, Google has become an absolutely awesome (cliche alert!) search engine for me, and its search results are sometimes indispensable to me in doing my job. On the other hand, Microsoft's obnoxious in-your-face behavior over the past 30 years does not and cannot ever engender my trust. And that is why many people hold Microsoft to a high standard. Actually, for Microsoft, the standard bar is exceptionally low, corresponding to their regard toward others.

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That's Just Silly
Feb 6, 2016 7:12AM PST

I have not found a single device, whether component or peripheral, for which I could get a Windows 7 or 8 (or Vista, for that matter) driver that I could not get one for Windows 10, or for which the earlier drivers would not work when installed in "Compatibility Mode". Never once, and I have dealt with a LOT of "legacy" hardware.

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At least one! Two! And Definitely NOT Silly
Feb 6, 2016 8:15AM PST

You may be better than I am at finding drivers to make devices work, nowadays in Windows 10. Or maybe you are lucky. I've been at this game for a very long time. Sometimes a driver can be coaxed into working with a Windows release, but if one adheres to the Microsoft way, an older driver will sometimes refuse to install.

There is no Windows 10 driver for the fingerprint reader built into the Dell Latitude E5510. The very useful (tells you ALL the info about laptop battery life) Lenovo Power Manager will not install under Windows 10, which tells you that this driver is incompatible.

For a long time I had this blissful thought that any driver for Windows 7/8 will also work under Windows 10. Well, here are two that don't work and if anyone can provide a useful recipe to follow to install these supposedly no longer compatible drivers and others of the same ilk, that person would be doing a wonderful good deed for the Windows 10 community.

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Great! Want a device without a driver?
Feb 9, 2016 11:53AM PST

Here it is! NVidia GeForce 7300 GT video board. Try this for a driver for Win10. Happy) It actually tells me he won't install because there's no driver for this video board. Happy) My neighbour has it on his computer and he dies to get Win 10.

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No, it is not
Feb 12, 2016 7:09PM PST

I have upgraded all of my computers to Windows 10 and I have all of my hardware and software working, with the exception of one program that I can learn to live without, but don't you dare imply that those who do not have it so good are lying or stupid. The fact that this is a serious problem is proven time and time again by seeing how common it is. It is not silly, it is real and it is a problem. I am glad that I have the option to upgrade my computers without having to do more than 2 days of research to get them working properly, but that does not mean that everyone else has the same experience. I'm glad you aren't experiencing problems that cannot be solved, but don't pretend to know that others are not having real problems that cannot be solved without going back to previous versions of Windows.

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Same Here
Feb 12, 2016 7:27PM PST

I moved to 10 on all three of my machines albeit reluctantly on my best one.
Between the three there was one minor glitch in that WIN did not recognize the correct audio card but then neither did WIN 7.
I have done three clean WIN 10 installs and didn't even need to install hardware drivers as WIN 10 installed them for me.

On another note about those who are worried about privacy........I bet they never told a secret to someone.......that remained a secret.

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Can be DONE if you
Feb 12, 2016 8:17PM PST

Yes I managed to transition a HP DV6 from WIN8 to WIN7 New clean install. Was told by MS and HP it could NOT be done.

Some drivers were evident but some I had to do numerous searches to find an get the correct driver from the manufacturer.
HP had hidden the driver manufacturer under a HP name but found the real manufacturer and when their driver for WIN7 was loaded the device worked.

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Look at Device Manager for clues
Feb 13, 2016 12:26AM PST

If you have a device with uninstalled drivers, look at the Hardware ID under the Details for the device. There will see both PCI Vendor ID and Device ID. Search for their drivers with Google, not brain-dead Bing. For example, the laptop has graphics with PCI Vendor ID 8086 (Intel!) and Device ID 0046, Intel HD Graphics.

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One more missing driver
Feb 13, 2016 12:18AM PST

Yesterday, I got email from our town volunteer fire dept. Win 10 upgrade. Oops! No network driver. The beat goes on, and it is not so cut and dried that all Win 7/8 computers upgrade painlessly vis a vis drivers and other utilities.

Also, Microsoft has co-opted IHVs into placing some apps (they're not programs any more) in the Microsoft Store, rather than on vendor web site. Specific case in point, this Lenovo Thinkpad X201. It had a very nice program that would inform you of DETAILED battery info with Win 7. Now I have to sign up for the stupid Microsoft Store to get the Windows 10 version.

Oh, that's right. Microsoft is now, after 30 years of Windows, attempting to force the Apple approach of rigid control over the hardware/software environment. For my own personal use, this may be end of Windows for me. But as long as I am working, I will need Windows computers to help me deal better with my clients' hardware/software issues.

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Dell computer says not compatible
Feb 13, 2016 7:18AM PST

I have a Dell computer which Dell says is not compatible with Win 10. I am not going to try to update from Win 7 which came on the computer and works with no glitches to Win 10 with no guarantee it will work. Why bother!!! I should not have to be a computer whizz in order to use my machine. And that, people, is why we need to hold Microsoft to a high standard. We are not talking about ONE program, but about an entire operating system.

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That's just silly "NOT"
Feb 13, 2016 8:39AM PST

I've posted this before. My SCSI card is not supported in Win 10 but works great in Win 7. My printer is not supported in Win 10 and works in Win 7 using a different printer name. Since my SCSI died my $5,000 digital film scanner does not work. My DRM disappeared in Win 10 for both my own picturtes / videos and MP3 from my own CD's. Win 10 only recognizes the FCC device ID number. It is up to you to find every driver for every device that resides on your computer. You will no longer get the prompt "A new driver is available" from Windows. If you installed drivers via that prompt in pervious versions of windows all of those updates are gone and it has reverted back to the driver that was installed when the PC was created. That is why you find a lot of complaints about slow boot ups of Win 10 systems. I found out after a roll back to Win 7 about the driver troubles. My laptop that is still on Win 10 works a hell of a lot better since I manually updated all the PC hardwatre drivers and them all the program drivers to the latest Win 10 version. My desktop will stay on Win 7 because everything works fine. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

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You got really lucky
Feb 14, 2016 9:57AM PST

On the one laptop I did upgrade, I had to disable the buletooth as there are no drivers for it on windows 10. My desktop doesn't support windows 10 because of my Intel Q8300 quad core processor is not supported by windows 10. My gateway laptop is still running 7 because the scroll feature on my touch pad is not supported by 10. I tried it on some other laptops and found various other driver fails such as video and bluetooth. one laptop that was running vista couldn't even be upgraded to windows 7 due to no video drivers.
So, yeah, you got lucky

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RE That's Just Silly
Feb 14, 2016 6:08PM PST

I agree with you about Windows 10 Drivers, I have not had problems in finding drivers to work in windows 10. I deal with PC computer repair daily. If there is a driver that works in Vista, W7 or W8 the drive can be found for W10. There are some old devices early XP and older you may have problems with. I have worked with computer since 1975.

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try to get drivers for a Dell Studio laptop
Feb 24, 2016 6:21AM PST

Dell just says it isn't supported. Meaning they didn't test it because it is old.
But Windows 10 discovers it, loads its own drivers, then fails the device. So no webcam for SKYPE or any other video app. Went back to dual boot Windows 7 and 8.1 and all is well again.

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Privacy is simpler...
Feb 9, 2016 11:50AM PST

...Actually it's simplicity itself. Why have a FB account? I've terminated mine. Complete waste of precious time. Why Twitter? That ended too. How do I keep in touch with my friends? Simple. We call each other and meet IN ACTUAL PERSON! Wow! Better than FB. Better than Twitter. I don't own an Apple device. I do own an Android phone but it's not being able to watch me. I have carefully disabled all the intrusive "I know what you want options". Including GPS. It's just a phone that I use to call or text. I don't have Win 10, I only have XP, Win7 and LINUX. On 3 different machines. Trying to learn Linux enough so as to put it on ALL machines. That's it. Simple, nice and easy. No Internet banking or mobile banking for me. NO THANKS! What is secured by man can be hacked by man.It's not a matter of if it's just a matter of what's to gain. So the less digital red tape, the better. You may say I'm an ancient, but I'm not. The only one?

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simpler privacy
Feb 12, 2016 6:20PM PST

Like you Drazi.. I have one on XP and my new build with Linux Mint 17.3 . . ! Happy faster and cleaner.
hardly ever turn on the XP anymore ! hahaha think I have w95 on #3 pc, cant remember,
could be even older Happy Win7 just got to be too much of a pain and nothing worth diddle
came out of them after that.
The biggest hurdles with Linux for me (been working with computers since 6Cool was trying to figure out their system format and function. tough learning (and for me remembering) their verbiage. Mint is as advertised being the easiest version to start with. You can be up and running in no time. the Biggest thing I miss is MS's explorer. it was complete and simple.
with linux there must be a dozen similarities that all fall short of giving you complete info
especially with multi HD's and the link with my xp pc. some of my other gripes will probably be fixed in the coming updates etc. we are still a "work in progress" hahaha