Windows 10 forum


Windows 10 November Update

by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 1:42 PM PST

I've submitted this issue to a Microsoft Forum but expect the run-around that they usually give users. I got a message that the November update failed on my HP Pavilion X2 that I bought last year from Microsoft. The failure was because the update requires 4.67 Gb of disk space on drive C: Of course, it only has a 32 GB drive, and if I remove ALL of the programs and ALL of my AppData folders, I could barely get the required 4.69 Gb that the update requires. I did the disk cleanup and only recovered 433 Mb. I did a system cleanup and recovered about 200 Mb. Basically, I recovered nothing close to what is required for the update. When I got the error message, it appeared to give me a choice of using the D: drive which has 22.5 Gb of free space. (It said I only needed 10 Gb.) So, I checked that box and then got a message saying that I needed 4.67 Gb on drive C: and that the 10 Gb on drive D: only was for recovering in case the update didn't work. So, the question is: Do I have a bricked Pavilion X2? It appears to me that there is no possibility for me to do any more updates/upgrades with that PC. If indeed it is a bricked PC, is my best bet to go with Linux and forget Microsoft altogether. I have four more PCs that are supposed to go to Windows 10. One of them has a Hauppauge TV card in it and requires Media Center, which Microsoft dropped altogether. I cannot possibly upgrade that from 8.1 to 10, because Windows 10 does not have Media Center or any replacement for it. Back to the question for this posting: 1) What am I supposed to do about the November Update given that I only have 2.09 Gb free space on Drive C: 2) Would Microsoft advise me to convert to Linux and forget Windows 10 altogether? (I'm quite familiar with Ubuntu and can switch in a flash--well maybe a couple of hours.

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All Answers

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Small world.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 1:59 PM PST

Your post is a wall of text but I have a similar 32GB machine called the Asus T100. But here's the difference. Mine has a 500GB HDD in the base so the upgrade to 10 required a little finesse.

Now I'm unsure if you are ranting or expected MSFT and HP to document how to get these to W10.

As to WMC, I experienced troubles in WMP years ago and ignored it since. As to a WMC in Linux, I haven't seen a clone that is the same but in W10 my thought is the TV card maker needs to supply an app.

Sorry if I didn't answer your questions but here, the 32GB T100 is running 10 super. In fact, 10 to me was what 8.1 should have been.

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Sorry for my Wall of Text Post
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 2:15 PM PST
In reply to: Small world.

This is only an upgrade to an existing Windows 10 machine. They called it the November Upgrade. So, I have been running Windows 10 for a month already. This is just an upgrade.

Actually, Windows 8.1 was far superior to Windows 10 as far as I can tell.

W10 just slogs along, and Eclipse is almost hopeless. I tried cleaning it up, but that didn't do anything.

So, I use Firefox when I need more speed.

I hope you are able to read this better.

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Eclipse here runs as same speed on 7, 8, 8.1 and 10.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 2:38 PM PST

That's quite the odd issue. Here I have yet to see any difference across Windows versions.

W10 here is the speedier and more of the OSes. But a 32GB Windows C drive is not for heavy work. In fact to get 10 installed on the T100 I first did the factory recovery so it was clean as can be.

I can see how folk could melt down on a 32GB drive. It's just going to be too much for most and now you read folk that demand that Microsoft or HP fix such things. Maybe you're ready to leave the land of Windows?

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by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 4:19 PM PST

Most likely the problem with speed has to do with the fact that the PavilionX2 is underpowered both with memory (2 Gb) and with disk space (32 Gb). It's likely swapping like crazy with every bit and byte from memory to disk and back, so it takes a long time to do anything.
I just ran disk compression and was able to get about 4 Gb and almost enough, supposedly, for the upgrade. I'm afraid of the word "almost". I have 4.55 Gb free, and the error before read 4.67 was required. If that is the case, I can drop a few more applications.

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You could delete "Windows old".
by Dafydd Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 4:26 PM PST
In reply to: PavilionX2

WARNING! If you do this, there is no reverting!

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Already gone
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 4:46 PM PST

In a previous desperate attempt to gain more space, I already deleted Windows.old. That gave me a bunch of space for a little while. Didn't take long to get from about 5 Gb free space to 2 Gb. Disk cleanup doesn't do anything as I noted earlier. I really wonder where all that space goes, anyway. The only thing that seems to grow are the files associated with the numerous upgrades, and it seems they are untouchable.

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When I did these updates.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 5:00 PM PST
In reply to: Already gone

I did a factory recovery prior to installing 10 and then had to use the HDD in the T100 base.
For the next one I had to do the W10 "RESET" to get it sparkly clean.

Some may fault MSFT or the netbook maker but when dealing with Lilliputian machines I find I have to be very creative.

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why aren't you using linux on this?
by James Denison / November 25, 2015 4:38 PM PST
In reply to: PavilionX2

Perfectly suited for it and then there's your user name indication.

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Good possibility
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 4:58 PM PST

As I told Mr. Proffitt, that is my last resort. I was hoping to use Windows 10 successfully on something and thought that the PavilionX2 with its touch screen would be just the ticket.

I've got four other PCs that need to either go to Linux or to Windows 10. I'm hoping that I can have at least two of them as Windows 10, but that hope is fading as I have more and more problems with Windows 10. I've got several applications that my wife uses that absolutely requires Windows, and Wine doesn't do the job. I don't think there is a Quicken for Linux, and I depend on it for bookkeeping.

Oh my.

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There is ONE client I have
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 5:02 PM PST
In reply to: Good possibility

That runs on Linux and needed Quicken for a reason. They run it in VirtualBox but here you have some issues with 32GB OS drives. That's going to really upset some owners. That's far too tight for everyday folk.

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That's another PC
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 5:25 PM PST

The PC where I have Quicken has plenty of disk space and would work very well with Linux and probably VirtualBox as well. I'm not sure, but I think I've used VirtualBox before, and it does a lot of Windows apps. We'll see.

The PC with Quicken is an old Dell, and Microsoft keeps nagging me to upgrade it from Win7 to Windows 10, but I have a LOT of software on it, and would really like to keep it as a Windows OS and, frankly, I'm terrified to upgrade it. I'm 71 years old, and--morbid thought--maybe I'll be lucky enough to pass away before Win7 is totally finished. What is it; in 2017 it goes the way of Windows XP?

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Win 7 is good 'till 2020.
by Dafydd Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 5:31 PM PST
In reply to: That's another PC

I see no problem.

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A few things.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 5:34 PM PST
In reply to: That's another PC

One can get rid of the GWX nag. It's been done and on the web so I'll skip how.

Windows 7 looks like 2020.

Here's the deal. I've programmed, soldered wires, built circuits for now over 50 years. I'm lucky our office is now working on Android apps so we get to see all the cool stuff.

While we banned 8 for a time, after Classic Shell came out we found that to really help and no more ban. When 10 rolled we've had nothing but good experiences. Yes we had to find a driver or two but that's been the way of Windows since say Windows 3.x.

-> Why not stop the GWX and stand still for the time being?

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Windows 10 seems to be pretty good; just this thing...
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 5:52 PM PST
In reply to: A few things.

I agree that Windows 10 is pretty good. It's easy to use, and apart from my little tiff with Eclipse and lack of speed, I like Eclipse better than IE. Much better.
As for the rest of the PCs waiting for the grand upgrade, I agree with you on standing still. So far, Windows 7 is working very well for all my little stuff: Arduino programming, PuTTy and remote management of Linux servers, WinSCP, ad infinitum. I won't disturb those guys until the free update to Windows 10 is nearly at the end.
Maybe I won't have to pass away to eternal bliss after all. I can just wrestle with Microsoft the rest of my life.
So far, my third attempt to update is working. After getting more space by compressing the file system. 83% downloaded so far.

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that gave me an idea though
by James Denison / November 26, 2015 7:02 AM PST

A VHD can be transfered easy enough. Get W10 installed into a VHD like I did, then make a copy and drop into the other computer running there also in Virtual Box. The problem is keeping it activated though.

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Edge not Eclipse
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 6:20 PM PST

Dementia is setting in a bit early, but apparently it is there. When I said "eclipse", I meant Microsoft Edge, the browser. I don't know the first thing about Eclipse programming or whatever it does.

It is Edge that is very slow. I like the browser for some of the whiz bang stuff, but basic functionality like organizing the Favorites Bar is very backwards as compared with any other browser including IE.

When I need a faster browser, I do turn to Firefox.

As I said, I know absolutely nothing about Eclipse. So it goes.

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Ahh, that.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 6:32 PM PST
In reply to: Edge not Eclipse

We use Eclipse for programming so I could write that it was fine on W7 through 10 (and Linux too.)

Edge? Sorry, don't use it. Due to MSFT's security issues I'll not use what 90% of Windows users use (IE and Edge.) There's safety by not standing in the line of fire.

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Crashed and burned again
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 7:03 PM PST
In reply to: Ahh, that.

On the original topic, the update crashed and burned again. This time, it asked for 4.66 Gb (instead of 4. 67 Gb). So, I deleted applications until I got 4.76 Gb according to the file manager.

The update is now hanging at 50% and not seeming to go anywhere. Task manager says the System is taking up all the CPU. Doing what, I have no idea.

I would wish that Microsoft would do a space requirement exercise before they make me wait 2 hours for the download and then midway through installation, they decide that there isn't enough disk space.

I just don't understand why they would push Windows 10 so hard for a 32 Gb system.

My brother has a 32 Gb Surface Pro or something, I hate to think what he has to go through. His advantage is that he lives near a physical Microsoft store and they will do whatever he needs. I think he bought the extended warranty package last year.

I'm going to go to bed and let the dumb thing work itself out or crash and burn again. Or whatever.

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32GB is as noted, small and will require
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 7:19 PM PST

A lot of work on the owners part. This is where Apple does a lot better. However I think I should repeat how I got my W10 and updates to work.
1. Factory recovery on the T100. Pretty much max space free.
2.Let it do the GWX thing but tell it to use the external 500GB space for it's own use.
3. After 10 was done , used diskcleanup to remove the old OS and ...
4. When the new patches came down, did a Windows 10 restore to factory again to max out free space.

All good here. But I don't use this T100 for much else than software demos.

Post was last edited on November 26, 2015 7:26 AM PST

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Windows Update Please do not turn off the computer
by linux_guy5 / November 26, 2015 5:48 AM PST

Well, here it is Thanksgiving morning. Happy Thanksgiving!

Anyway, it is now 9 am here, and the computer got through the download and is installing. It has rebooted and is at 26% of finishing the update. Fingers crossed.

I just never imagined that we would be reinstalling Windows 10 almost from scratch every couple of months. I barely got it installed the first time, and when I was finished, there were only 5 Gb free out of 32 Gb. Where does all that space go? Fortunately, I do not depend on this PC for anything critical. (My other ones have much more critical things.) This one is only for convenience of reading Facebook when I eat breakfast.

Of course, I could do that function with no hassles, if I just had the sense to use it for Linux. But, I like to do things the hard way. Scratch "like" and "do".

Again, to everyone who is following this. Happy Thanksgiving!

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Update finished
by linux_guy5 / November 26, 2015 6:47 AM PST

Other than the fact that the update completely destroyed all the data on my D: drive, and that I have only 2.93 Gb left on my C: drive; the update was successful. Maybe there is a Windows.old that I can remove. Looks like there is something of a road back to recover from this update.

We seem to be a long ways from when PCs could be as easy to use as toasters. Meanwhile, we have to work with mostly burnt toast whenever Microsoft does anything.

At least, I got the update. Now, what to do with it except use it to read Facebook and program Arduino microcontrollers?

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Just checked my Windows old folder.
by Dafydd Forum moderator / November 26, 2015 7:00 AM PST
In reply to: Update finished

It's just over 24GB in size. I must get round to a clean install when I have time.

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Just checked mine, too
by linux_guy5 / November 26, 2015 8:12 AM PST

My Windows.old directory is over 6 Gb compressed. I'll try to move it to the destroyed D: drive, which I had to reformat. It was totally destroyed. I'm now doing the slow format.

I'll be gone the rest of the day and probably weekend.

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Short answer is...
by Dafydd Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 2:04 PM PST

you need a bigger HDD. Then clone your old HDD to it.

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Short answer is Not Possible
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 2:11 PM PST
In reply to: Short answer is...

There is no way to put a bigger hard drive into a Pavilion X2. It's a SSD drive, and cannot be changed by the user. Also, it is permanently assigned as a C: drive, so when I attempted to migrate the AppData folder to get more space, Windows would not let me do it. That is a very long story in itself. I tried all kinds of suggestions to move it, and then ran across a Microsoft Bottom Line--the AppData folder may not be moved from the C: drive.

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My oversight.
by Dafydd Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 2:22 PM PST

Should have researched it.

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by Dafydd Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 2:36 PM PST
In reply to: My oversight.

If Bob has a 500GB HDD, why can't you? Are these the same machines?

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It's a M2 SATA drive.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 2:40 PM PST
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The work is tricky
by linux_guy5 / November 25, 2015 4:23 PM PST
In reply to: It's a M2 SATA drive.

From what I read in the link that you provided, the work is not for the faint of heart and is quite difficult. Anything that voids a warranty is likely to end in disaster for a person without a lot of experience in doing close work. BTW, you seem to be a somewhat harsh person.

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Sorry about that.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 25, 2015 4:38 PM PST
In reply to: The work is tricky

There are some that want long drawn out answers to cut the edge on harsh. I keep it short to drive down to solutions.

Maybe Linux is your fix?

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