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General discussion

Windows 10 BSOD, RedSOD and BlackSOD, oh my, I need help!

Jul 12, 2019 4:37PM PDT

So . . . over the last few weeks I've experienced the Blue Screen of Death multiple times; and the RedSoD; and the BlackSod. No warning, just an apologetic message about a "difficulty" and an "Unexpected Store Exception" or a "Kernel Data Inpage Error" (which as far as I am concerned might mean exactly the same thing; but then I only speak English) and "We need to restart", etc. And sometimes not even that. I am frequently instructed to run the Hard Disk Check - and, short or long, it passes the test every time.

Over the same period I have been given more Windows 10 64-bit updates for my HP Envy than you can shake a stick at - and when these started I was obscurely grateful, thinking that Microsoft had noticed and identified the problem - surely a software problem rather than my hardware? - and now the problem would stop. It didn't.

I can't be the only one to suffer, can I? Is there any word from on high? Or word of comfort from down below? Or do I just need a new rubber band? It can't be the fault of the hamster in the treadmill because he looks just fine... Any advice on where to start or how to troubleshoot these issues? Thank you!

--Submitted by Phil W. from UK

Post was last edited on July 12, 2019 4:38 PM PDT

Discussion is locked

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Something needs clarifying. The RED SOD
Jul 12, 2019 4:49PM PDT

Was not on full release Windows but on Vista and not on a released version.
"The Red Screen of Death (RSoD) refers to the error message that appeared on some of the beta versions of Windows Vista".

Is there more to this story?

Also, my last HP was my last HP as HP had sold models with a defective BIOS. HP never issued a fix so if the BIOS ever shows the make "Insyde" then I would stop trying to fix it and start asking for a full refund so you can start over.

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Been there
Jul 12, 2019 7:26PM PDT

I have seen quite a few Blue SOD but not RSOD or Black SOD in Windows 10 Pro.

It's always something with IRQ. I updated all drivers to latest and it still happens.

Finally, one day, it won't let me in. I have to resort to restore BOOT record. It kept happening a few times whenever BSOD. Eventually, Windows 10 DIED. I can't reboot back to it.

However, I can still clean boot, start from scratch. Luckily, I used Paragon Back and Restore (free) to incrementally backups and I put all my data on 2nd drive (drive D) so I can get back on my feet as quick as I can. After fresh installation completed, I restore some files in AppData/Roaming so I can continue my work. But I lost weeks of time and I am still not working properly as I once did.

I wish I can stop installing Windows Update as it causes more harm than fixing stuff. Yes, I pause Windows update and delay feature update to the max. I wish I could start using Linux but there are many programs only works on Windows. Yes, there is Wine & VBox, but it's still different than running directly from Windows. So my options are quite limited. Oh well. I wish Microsoft to stop proving new features but start fixing all bugs first, not just major ones, so Windows 10 becomes as stable as Windows 7.

Good luck. Get a list of program you installed and their product keys, backup, refresh, and reinstall. It's better this way.

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Something Else to Consider
Jul 12, 2019 8:05PM PDT

After an MS update, BOTH drivers and settings may have changed or reverted to previous settings. So immediately AFTER the update, be prepared to redo drivers (use the device manager to check) and make sure you also update firmware as that goes hand-in-hand with driver updates. Also, if your computer is fairly new, you can hit F12 during the early stages of the boot. At least DELL, provides recovery boot concepts from the boot order screen.

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Done that
Jul 12, 2019 8:29PM PDT

Thanks. F12, done it. Worked it. Finally, failed.

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Black SOD? Blue SOD?
Jul 12, 2019 7:59PM PDT

One thing that I found with Win 10 updates is what many think is a BLACK SOD. In most cases, the problem is not what people think. It is ONLY a black screen (temporary). In the last semi-annual, I had a Black screen, but I moved the mouse around (yes, I know, you can't see it -- just move it anyway) and then did a few random double clicks. The screen came right back on, with the progress bar at around 78%. In the previous semi-annual, I got a solid black screen. The first thing to check is your hard drive light. If it still is blinking, just step away from the computer. It's best if YOU DON'T WATCH. It is truly annoying to users of previous versions of Windows when updates lasted 5 to 10 minutes. The Semi-annual is NOT one of those kind of updates. It is closer to a complete re-installation of Windows without a lot of user input. One of my semi-annual updates ran closer to 12 hours. The last one was less than 4 and it was mostly my fault for falling asleep and missing the "reboot" message.

For Blue SOD, experience and research shows that about 95% of those are due to bad drivers or improperly installed drivers. My suggestion is to go to your OEM manufacturer (Dell, HP, ACER, etc.) and find their support site. Go to software downloads drivers and firmware. If possible, use your serial number or service code rather than your "model number" to pin-point your exact hardware configuration. If you bought hardware after initial setup, such as a new HDD or SSD, you should get the drivers and firmware from the manufacturer website for those items. Make sure the driver is for Win 10 (many times a Win 7 driver will NOT work for Win 10 -- nor XP for higher OS versions). Also, if you have a 32-bit WIN 10 or a 64-bit Win 10, you should match that in your driver selections. MS is "trying" to supply drivers in their updates but that doesn't always cut it. I'm NOT saying MS is faultless in any of this. The design of the latest update process leaves a LOT to be desired. You should NEVER design something that confuses any user, such as a dumb black screen without a progress bar. My opinion only there. By the way.. components in notebooks and tablets are NOT standard like you see on full desktops. Many have custom devices such as pointing devices, pads, weird eMMC drives, and drives so be especially careful with these systems and drivers.

To summarize, try to keep your drivers AND firmware up-to-date and be careful NOT to power off the computer in the middle of updates. If you have a plain, black screen, first try to move and double-click your mouse and, if that doesn't help, check the HDD light or just walk away for an hour or two. If you keep the drivers current, you may also want to keep the last set handy on removable media in case MS puts the wrong driver in place.

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In the Real World
Jul 13, 2019 7:42AM PDT
"You should NEVER design something that confuses any user..."

Now, Mr. Forman, I know that, given your obvious level of experience and knowledge, you KNOW that what you are asking here is beyond any real-world possibility, particularly when given a user base as widespread and richly varied as that enjoyed by Windows 10. And you are also aware that, in any comprehensive update like the major Windows upgrades, there are times when the screen must go to black.

If any company can devise a system of any type in any field that can eliminate BDU and PEBCAK errors, I shall happily invest in their stock. Windows Update provides prominent warnings NOT to turn off your computer until the updates complete, and that completion may take some time, and I am at something of a loss to think what more they might do in that regard.

You had a major update that took 12 HOURS? What, were you on an XT?
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12 HOUR UPDATES. I see that.
Jul 13, 2019 9:07AM PDT

Not on any of our laptops at the office but clients bring them is. We usually find the HDD is failing. Not failed, FAILING. I don't want to write too much here but go get SPECCY and check out the HDD SMART VALUES 01 and 07. If they are in the thousands you usually find an owner waiting hours on updates along with other complaints.

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Was Just ONE Update
Jul 13, 2019 2:18PM PDT

And, I noticed that, even in these semi-annual updates, there is at least ONE time that it was requesting that I click to reboot. Of course, I was NOT around as I've giving up "watching" updates. I know I've run disk tests, including S.M.A.R.T., that have all passed. This was, I think, my first semi-annual update. There seems to be, Bob, a big difference between the usual monthly and even cumulative updates as compared with the semi-annual. My last semi-annual update ran only a few hours and most of that was me missing a click while I fell asleep.

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I Disagree
Jul 13, 2019 2:49PM PDT

I've been doing IT for over 51 years. It is one thing to have tech expertise from both experience and training but a lot of the classes I took were in system design. You always design for the user/consumer. In the old days of Windows, the screen NEVER went black. Ever. It might "blink" but never sit there for 0.5 to 1.0 hours of a black screen. As you pointed out, there is a very diverse user group out there now. We really didn't see that until after the creation of the World Wide Web in the 90s. Before that, users were techies, for the most part. But here, we have two issues. Number one, a black screen lasting more than, I'd say, a few minutes will upset anyone who has worked with previous versions of Windows where screens didn't go black for that length of time (in most cases, the entire update used to take less than 1/2 an hour. So, you can ask around with that group and most will tell you (including the OP) that they never expect a totally black screen for that length of time and will most likely try various things to remedy what appears, to them, to be an unexpected and serious issue. (Lastly, holding down the power button or pulling the plug which are never good ideas especially with the HDD light blinking away). In the second case, with Facebook and other activities, you have people buying computers that have never seen one before. As part of my job, I had to train this middle-aged woman how to use a mouse, if you can picture that. Today, kids are practically born with a mouse in their hand and schools train students how to use a computer. But there will always be those that fall into the cracks. You said you would be "at a loss" in what people would do... well, that's not so much of an IT question as it is a psychology question. But, it is a bit after the horses got out of the barn, but I'm pretty sure those who are used to Win 3.0, 4.11, 98 SE, NT, 2000 would still be confused by a totally black screen lasting as long as it does. A screen that, with a bit of programming talent, can easily be replaced by something other than black maybe with a progress bar.

So, you think the screen MUST go black? It never did in previous versions of Windows, to my best recollection? Can you remember that happening? If you did an experiment with a room full of users doing a simulated "update" and arranged for the screen to go black for, let's say, 30 minutes, do you think some of those people would get up and comment to someone "in charge" that the update crashed or who would hold down the power button? Judging by the comments we have already seen here in Cnet on all things Windows 10 update, I'd bet many people would do those things. So, after they crash the update, they have Windows being a "mixed bag" and the user notes that something is still wrong even after restarting. Yes, I had to fix someone's laptop where they did all of these things. Ended up using my jump drive with the updated Windows on it and didn't lose any of her programs or data.

Personally, I just think MS could have done a better job. It's one thing to tell users that it will take a long time but a black screen that lasts and lasts?

As for my 12-hour update... I made up my mind that I would let it run overnight and it was the computer's FIRST update. I think the issue is that it doesn't have an SSD but, rather, a single TB HDD and is probably slow. Even with 12 GB RAM, this was a VERY inexpensive brand new computer (less than $500). So, yeah, it takes a bit of patience.

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The 12 hour update machines were...
Jul 13, 2019 2:55PM PDT

All 1TB Seagate equipped and all had many thousands in the SMART values 01 and 07.

-> These drives had not failed. There were slow because, well, that's been well discussed.

Microsoft does not code to deal with these drives. Why should they?

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I Wasn't Complaining
Jul 14, 2019 12:05AM PDT

I actually expected a LONG update time. I have a Toshiba DT01ACA100. I just assumed, since that was the first time I would be seeing a semi-annual update, that it would take a long time with cheapo hardware and 64-bit Win 10 Pro. I wasn't upset by the time it took. Others? maybe assuming most updates are done in 10-15 minutes may have had different expectations.

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"But you will be."
Jul 14, 2019 5:34AM PDT

I'm getting mixed messages out of Redmond. Update times are going to get better but then again they don't support the (rather awful) 32GB Windows machines we saw recently. And slow drives are not considered to be a problem at all.

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Power Option Setting Can Make Screen Go Black
Jul 13, 2019 7:32PM PDT

Windows 10 and earlier have a default setting to turn off the display after a certain number of minutes when Power Plan is set on Balanced or Power Save. So, Windows Update can be downloading or preparing to install and the screen may go dark.

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Probably NOT During an Update Like This
Jul 14, 2019 12:12AM PDT

Technically, I don't have ANY power options set that way and, if you think about it, Windows isn't actually running during this update. There was zero screen saver and all BIOS settings were to be full power on as well as the Win 10 power settings. Also, this was booted from a jump drive and was well into the upgrade. I appreciate the points though. My "last" screen going blank was at 78% of the install per progress bar.

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Wiggle Mouse
Jul 20, 2019 9:41AM PDT

Just curious - did you try wiggling the mouse or clicking it after the screen went dark? Or, even better, try wiggling the mouse during update to PREVENT the screen going dark. Probably it won't make any difference if the problem is really update-related, but thought it worth mentioning. Cheers.

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Thanks
Jul 24, 2019 8:51AM PDT

In the last update, the black screen was "fixed" by wiggling and double-clicking the mouse. Others may not have thought of that. However, in one of the large semi-annual updates, it was just black for about an hour. Many will question that their "power" (and other settings, do not allow for a turn-down of the monitor, but you have to remember that the update may not be completely running under Windows.

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Probably, except ....
Jul 22, 2019 5:18PM PDT

If you booted from the jump drive then perhaps Windows power plans, power options, and display options do not apply.
Having said that, I should like to point out that, in Windows High Performance power plan, the default setting includes "Turn off the display: On Battery - 10 minutes, Plugged in - 15 minutes"; thus, the screen could indeed go dark during an update if Windows is "on". At least that's how it works on my Windows 10 laptop. Maybe it's different on other devices?

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I Kind of said the Same Thing
Jul 24, 2019 8:54AM PDT

In one of my posts, I mentioned that the reboot near the beginning of the update process doesn't go into Windows. If it were Windows, you would hit a login screen right after that. So, you are probably correct that the computer is running an update program and not your usual OS along with its settings.

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Entertainment
Jul 19, 2019 9:09PM PDT

I found this thread very entertaining, maybe for the wrong reasons. I'll get to the actual topic eventually (xSOD). I , too, have been in the business for over 50 years, of course, it wasn't called 'IT' until the 90's. I'm not a regular here and it seems some are familiar with others of the group. This thread has almost everything I would want to say about the problem because I've experienced every one of the possibilities mentioned. The old first-generation PC (1982) XT/AT didn't have these problems because the original Windows (3) does not resemble Windows 10 in any way I can see. As an old school Systems Engineer, I was driven to understand Windows inside and out, which I did accomplish. Windows 10 has taken all of that knowledge and trashed it. I've had bizarre things happen like files being relocated to other folders or disappearing completely...
I quickly want to agree with whoever said their last HP will be their last, same boat here. I've finally come to rest with a Dell Latitude that seems stable after replacing 500gb HDD with 1 tb drive all forced by a variety of 'SOD' I didn't see mention of the GREEN SOD, which I got often.
Every one of my SODs had the error message in small font to point in a direction to troubleshoot. First stop is to pick troubleshooter for BSOD regardless of the actual color. This, of course, does nothing except make you feel like you're doing something.
As was mentioned here, patience is your friend and the secret to success is constancy to purpose.(credit to my HS English teacher).
I should have admitted I don't have the answer, except all the above. I was forced into retirement due to a stroke leaving me paralyzed and all this typing is a challenge. I don't think I brought much to the table here, but my opinion is that Windows 10 is the worst software ever laid on an unsuspecting public for "free".
One last bone to pick, if MS insists on touting Artificial Intelligence as if it's their creation, how or why did I take a lengthy course in AI at MIT way back in the '70s?? I'm too angry with MS, the millennial IBM. I will conclude since my pictures get spread across all my folders, it's a good possibility that valuable .dll files are getting moved too. All of which could be an indexing problem. (end of rant)

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symlinks
Jul 20, 2019 10:04AM PDT
" I've had bizarre things happen like files being relocated to other folders or disappearing completely..."

Probably due to something not used back then, called 'Symlinks', which appear as a folder, but really is just a link in a file to the actual folder. They were in Unix and Linux, and then also Windows started using them too. Hope on recovery from the stroke, it can happen, just work at it.
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Thanks
Jul 20, 2019 8:54PM PDT

@James Denison thanks, I think the moving of my files also helps cause the SODs, but it's impossible to prove. I can't make it happen as all my saved email disappeared. I've done every clean install on a formatted hard drive and every other suggested fix.
'Hope' is all I have on my stroke damage, Stem cells might do it! Patience is valuable in all things computer and health.

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You're Doing Great
Jul 20, 2019 1:51PM PDT

That was a very long and well-thought out post even without a disability. I too remember learning about AI back in the '70s. We only learned about two disciplines: KE (Knowledge Engineering) and Robotics. You're right! I don't remember IT being used until the 90's. It sounds better than data processing or when the ACM was all about algorithms and a lot of math. Things have gotten better though since some of the early days of desktop computing. You can barely write a program that trashes the OS these days. That's why a lot of the xSODs are more likely to be drivers or the OS itself. I remember one issue was that if you got a BSOD (Blue) the system crash happens so fast that it tries to reboot immediately and you don't even get to see the blue screen. There's a setting for that. Sometimes you can extract SOMETHING from the blue screen that you can look up ion the Internet like one of those 0Xnnnnnnnn codes. Hope things get better for you!

Howie

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Patience an Understanding
Jul 20, 2019 8:59PM PDT

Thanks, Howie, I didn't mean for it to get so long-winded. It's nice when someone can understand the old mainframe structure, let alone try to relate it to today. Thanks for the well wishes too.
Dave

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First update worst
Jul 19, 2019 9:36PM PDT

Bought a new HP laptop with Win10 Home pre-installed. 1 day later, the computer says I need to update Windows. It lasted overnight and half the next day - the pre-installed version seemed to be (almost) the Beta version without all the subsequent 'updates' which it went on installing one by one.
And you had to keep saying 'Reboot' in between. Couldn't use the system, unable to get out of it. Didn't notice the colours in-between but there were several 'blanks' - I too desisted from powering off because of HDD activity.
None of which helps BSOD+RSOD+???

UNLESS he's bought a new system with an OLD version of Windows which is getting updated version by version.

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Black=screen Blanking/updating & Blue=driver/exception
Jul 20, 2019 6:39AM PDT

This is an *excellent* and well-informed response.
" I'm NOT saying MS is faultless in any of this.
The design of the latest update process leaves a LOT to be desired. "
This is the current reported trend.
I have much older hardware that was W10ready-checked=OK and then W7 drivers busted up the baseline build.
Not a perfect situation but I am hoping that 1903 improves.

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Black = screen Blanking/updating and Blue = driver/exception
Jul 20, 2019 6:45AM PDT

I agree with Hforman.
Excellent reply .
We all hope Build 1903 improves with updates
but BSOD is exception errors caused primarily by out-of-bounds
caused by driver issues or non-compliance.
Black is the screen blanking during long feature update processing.
and these statements are also true in my opinion;
"I'm NOT saying MS is faultless in any of this.
The design of the latest update process leaves a LOT to be desired. "

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Thank You
Jul 20, 2019 1:18PM PDT

The funny thing is, we've been beating the update issue to death (almost) since Win 10 first came out and started having updates. I've tried to cover everything from the psychological effects with update (that most people who have been around for a long time, are not used to updates taking many hours and non-technical users need constant reassurance that the update is actually progressing normally) to that black screens which I can't remember happening in previous versions suddenly appearing in the middle of an update. Sometimes the concept of a "watched pot never boils" does fit. In any case, I've never seen updates like these (the semi-annual). Yes, MS can do a better job than this. IMHO, this stuff is NOT professional. Reminds me of when we had Netbackup issues (Symantec) and all of the tech support was overseas and I was told to "not use the product we bought".

It would go a lot better if people actually ran maintenance on their systems, especially keeping up with drivers (not an MS responsibility), running chkdsk and checking their update history for failed updates. But that might be too much to expect.

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Windows 10 SODs possible RAM issue
Jul 13, 2019 8:05AM PDT

UNEXPECTED STORE EXCEPTION points to data corruption. I had a similar repeated failure and suspected a RAM problem. Windows 10 memory test found nothing. What worked was the memory test I found as an option when booting UBUNTU Linux,
https://www.memtest86.com/
It identified data error problems with one of my memory modules. I used the error information to get an RMA and a replacement module.

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memtest86
Jul 19, 2019 6:51PM PDT
memtest86 is a very old but very well regarded test of system RAM. From what I've heard, it is considered by many as the gold standard to test memory for obscure and elusive problems. Load it on a memory stick, boot from it, and let it run overnight. If your memory has glitches, chances are memtest86 will have reported them on your screen when you come back to it in the morning.
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I have a Dell
Jul 20, 2019 1:22PM PDT

What I've found, at least for ME, is that, if you DON'T toss out all of the Dell software when you first get the computer, there are some valuable things from hardware testing to driver updates. My software is set up to do a full on maintenance every 6 months or so, including checking for drivers. Yeah, it takes a little while but well worth interrupting your day for and it is configurable.