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Resolved Question

Windows 10 Adoption Rate & Desertions

Jul 13, 2017 3:36AM PDT

First 4 articles, from googling "windows 10 adoption".

https://www.wired.com/2017/01/dont-want-windows-10-zany-hardware-change-mind/

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/224020-windows-10-adoption-is-slowing-despite-microsofts-best-efforts

http://www.techradar.com/news/microsoft-has-hit-a-wall-with-windows-10-adoption

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3124625/windows-pcs/microsoft-confirms-windows-10-adoption-slowdown.html

My questions are, how many here themselves, or know others who have deliberately avoided upgrading to windows 10, or worse for Microsoft, have rolled back from it's install, abandoning the latest windows upgrade?

Also, how many who have installed windows 10 have already had to reinstall it at least once?

I visit Linux forums and just this past month I've seen more complaints and deserters from windows to Linux than since XP support expired. Some comments were like "Fed up with it. Can't take it anymore. Had enough!," and so on.

Is there one particular situation in windows 10 that has created greater angst among it's current and former users?

It's adoption is still growing, but that rate of growth has slowed down in a huge way.

The articles above describe the growing desperation of Microsoft to get windows 10 onto more computers, but suggest mainly it's newer equipment needing newer driver files that will accomplish that, in the end, even for those who don't wish to run windows 10. More like obsolescence provides victory, if we wait long enough.

Last, who feels windows 10 is a mistake? I personally did the beta during development and had hopes for it, but when they made it RTM too soon, and problems increased as they stripped out privacy, and increased activation triggers, I decided not to upgrade my wife and daughter computers to it. My daughter now uses it on a new laptop though she got for graduation.

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James Denison has chosen the best answer to their question. View answer

Best Answer

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Waiting for Windows 11
Jul 15, 2017 12:57PM PDT

I have Windows 10 on one of my computers, a recently purchased laptop. I hate it, finding it befuddling, and when it surprises me by updating without my permission or even knowledge, I have to go to great lengths to back out the update, and then research it, to see if it screws things up or not, and then carefully install it. Everything else I own is Windows 7, and will stay on it until the hardware becomes obsolete. By then I am hoping Microsoft will have come to its senses, seeing the huge refusal rate of Windows 10 and its declining revenue from it, and come out with a better Windows 11. I view the fact that Microsoft has had to release new patches to XP with gleeful schadenfreude. Windows 7 (and XP!) may be supported much longer than they say now; they can't cut off 62% of their installed customer base. Or they could, and become only a cloud service company, not a software company anymore. We may be watching the end of Microsoft software.

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Look at Microsoft's track record. 11 will be a bad one.
Jul 15, 2017 2:46PM PDT

No one can seem to figure out why that is.

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I think you are correct
Jul 16, 2017 2:48PM PDT

10 years from now, there will be fewer windows users than use some other OS, or several other OS. I don't know if it will be from google, like Chrome OS, or from Android, or from Linux, or something newer come along. Considering the way Chrome OS and Android will by then have had a large following through the phone operating systems, I wouldn't be surprised to see Android create a Desktop Version that pulls many after it. Chromium is available now for those who don't buy a Chrome Book but want to use that OS on other equipment. Already the Chrome browser is the most popular browser being used. Considering how Microsoft basically gave windows 10 away to their most faithful upgraders, and thereby lost a large number of retail sales they could have made, Microsoft probably, albeit reluctantly, sees a day when Windows will no longer be the number one desktop in use. I don't see them coming back with a "Classic Windows" that looks like a clone of XP with additions, although that worked for Coke about 25 years ago when "New Coke" failed. Every new CEO there wants to be considered a "visionary" and put his own look on their desktop versions. The garbage bin of history is full of "visionaries" who failed due to putting their "vision" ahead of what the people actually wanted. Every CEO should learn and remember, it's NEVER about him, but about giving customers what they want. Just look at what's been happening at Sears and KMart lately, where a CEO thinks he knows better than all those before him who actually made those companies household names in the past.

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Answer
Windows 10 Stagnation and Recession
Jul 13, 2017 4:12AM PDT

Looks like desertions of windows 10 is happening.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/windows-10-stagnant-adoption-rate-feb-2017/

"

First up is NetMarketShare, which tracks network traffic according to operating system, among other data points. By its measure, Windows 10 was essentially stagnant in February 2017, at 25.19 percent compared to 25.3 percent in January 2017. Windows 7, which remains Windows 10’s primary competitor, was at 48.41 percent in February compared to 47.2 percent in January. That means Windows 7’s share of the desktop operating market actually increased a bit, leaving Windows XP’s slight decrease as the only real positive for Microsoft.

Next is Steam’s monthly report, which tells us which operating systems are most popular among PC gamers using Valve’s popular gaming service. Although Windows 10 had previously crossed the 50 percent share value in December 2017, it fell back below it in January 2017 and further decreased to to 48.77 percent in February 2017. "


As for Steam gamers, the article attributes the w10 lose to windows 7, but I know some of those Steam players also went to Linux, at least for faster game playing, since Steam is now on Linux.

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Answer
Windows 7 Blocked By Microsoft From New Hardware
Jul 13, 2017 4:37AM PDT

Seems in the effort to force feed Windows 10 to the masses, that Microsoft ended hardware support for windows 7 and 8 versions, even putting a blocking message up when someone buys a new computer with the latest CPU in it, and tries to install W7 or W8 on it instead.

Now to rescue those who bought the latest and greatest computer hardware with intentions of putting W7 on it is an unofficial update which allows it, showing the Microsoft's explanation that the older systems couldn't run on the newer CPU's is a LIE. In truth it's not lack of ability, but an inbuilt blocking, possibly installed by some update Microsoft sent out to W7 and W8 computers.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/dont-want-windows-10-dev-helps-new-pcs-bypass-microsofts-block-on-windows-7-8-1-updates/

"A developer has created a patch to bypass Microsoft's effort to restrict PCs with newer processors to using Windows 10.....some Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 users were taken aback by the error message with the April Patch Tuesday update. It stated: "Your PC uses a processor that isn't supported on this version of Windows and you won't receive updates.".....Zeffy's fix involves neutering two functions he found in wuaueng.dll, the code for Windows auto update. These functions, IsCPUSupported(void) and IsDeviceServiceable(void), are responsible for checking a CPU's generation......For anyone game enough to try Zeffy's patch, the developer notes it will need to be applied every time wuaueng.dll gets updated."

This update that started denying future support to W7 and W8 users on newer hardware came in March 2017. It's a deliberate move by Microsoft to keep W7 and W8 from being used on newer hardware, even when it's possible otherwise to do so.

Expect the EU to file a lawsuit against Microsoft in the future over this. Already a class action suit is in the making it seems.

To borrow an expression from Star Trek "YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED" .

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The problem is that
Jul 14, 2017 4:46AM PDT

it's not MS. It's a joint effort by MS, Intel and AMD and it only affects the new processors and doesn't affect the older processors.

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Exactly!
Jul 14, 2017 7:54AM PDT

They want to "nip it in the bud" so older OS, even those still under support, won't interfere with the spread of W10 and of course the sale of new hardware with it.

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Answer
My thought is, no mistake.
Jul 14, 2017 6:59AM PDT

W8 was a misfire like Vista. They didn't listen, period. On W10 it's all back with the start menu and all the new features plus less user interaction on updates WHICH upsets folks that want to control their PC.

I use a local login and can't see the privacy issue here. This is a long thread so I'll stop here with this is the best Windows I've used yet.

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Privacy and Update policy
Jul 14, 2017 7:59AM PDT

those seem to be the two biggest complaints, even ahead of appearance and the weird thing W10 does if you create a mail account to hotmail or some other microsoft run webmail. At least on Mint, I have 5 levels of updates from safest to riskiest and can choose the time to install them, or ignore some I don't personally need. I'm hoping the new laptop my daughter has doesn't mess up and I have to clean up on it. She's fairly savvy on computers by now, but only rare use of linux, mostly windows based and also was a late mover to W7 on her old desktop.

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Exactly
Jul 14, 2017 2:02PM PDT

Msft data gathering bordered on spyware.
Forced updates.
I could not see any new feature I wanted/needed.
The machine maker did not offer driver support for w10.

I'll stay with w7 for the next 2 years and then it will be time to replace this 7 yr old machine.

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Not seeing gathering here. But I use a local login.
Jul 14, 2017 2:13PM PDT

If you are talking about the email based login, Firefox and Chrome Sync features borders on data collection too. Google is known to collect a lot of detail, read emails and yet you think Linux is immune to this?

Check the web. The only clean system I've used today is TAILS.

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Firefox
Jul 14, 2017 3:11PM PDT

Important in the newest versions in about:config area to disable or clear the lines for "datareporting" and "telemetry".

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New Coke (aka Coke II)
Jul 30, 2017 10:04AM PDT

Something's been nagging me just a bit out of reach since this thread and finally today it popped into my mind.

Windows 10 is today's version of "New Coke". For a fun read on a product some praised but even more rejected, read this wiki on "New Coke" in the 1980's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

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"Do you fancy sepukku or harakiri?"
Jul 14, 2017 1:16PM PDT

Microsoft will happily take both, in very slow motion. A perfect Hobson´s choice for the company that is effectively dead for me.

Privacy, and W10? I posted a link about that before, but it´s an evergreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEBzc1GHUQE

If you like your Satan, you can keep your Satan. I shall keep my XP - permanently offline, thus not showing in any statistics. The rest will be Linux history.

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Answer
Microsoft Lays Off Thousands.
Jul 14, 2017 11:26AM PDT
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/salesforce-ceo-marc-benioff-tries-000458082.html

"Microsoft announced July 6 that it would cut 10% of its global sales team — around 5,000 people. "

'Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) is planning to close its Surface Hub manufacturing facility in Wilsonville, OR. The process, set to start in September, will see 124 jobs being slashed over the next few months.

Per ZDNet, Microsoft gained the ownership of the plant following its acquisition of Perceptive Pixel in 2012. It manufactured Microsoft’s huge touch-screen computers introduced in 2015.

The news comes just a week after Microsoft announced layoffs as part of its sales overhaul.'
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That's in the news
Jul 14, 2017 11:41AM PDT

And has been kicked around a bit. I don't know if you've tried the Microsoft hardware offerings over the years but they've moved from products that we all use and want to well, I have only met one Windows Phone user in the last 2 years.

There's a good reason why and when I was at a trade show I was told I was wrong about everything.

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They seem to be working on the....
Jul 14, 2017 11:54AM PDT

...mass transit sytem way of thinking. That there's something they believe everyone should use, and spend lots of money on it, and then everyone still doesn't want to use it anyway. It's like govt roads to nowhere, subways that few ride and cost more than the fares charged, etc. At least they still have lots of money earned in the past they've not spent down, yet. Instead of "a day late and a dollar short" on products, they are "a day late and a dollar more" on them, and it's causing many failures. Here's a great article pointing that out.

https://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/microsoft-may-layoff-thousands-in-its-struggle-to-.html

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The man who saved Office, saved Vista, and launched Windows
Jul 14, 2017 12:34PM PDT

"The man who saved Office, saved Vista, and launched Windows 8, Steven Sinofsky, is out of the company."

The first picture I saw was him at his desk with an Apple iMac. Maybe he was truly an Apple plant.

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Now that's funny
Jul 14, 2017 1:53PM PDT

You might be right!

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I know you know
Jul 14, 2017 2:20PM PDT

What direction Office went. I found the newer versions to be well, too much like what W8 did. W10 at least returned to usable for us.

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Yes, that xlsx change
Jul 14, 2017 3:12PM PDT

Did they ever get all the problems ironed out between the older xls and the newer xlsx format? My wife uses that in her job, but I avoid it mostly.

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At the office the spreadsheets are pretty simple.
Jul 14, 2017 3:16PM PDT

No macros, just pages, projections, graphs, boring. So we never encountered a problem that wasn't pilot error.

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Sinofsky
Jul 14, 2017 3:00PM PDT
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As I used them all.
Jul 14, 2017 3:18PM PDT

And now the office is on W10 all the way, I can't say it's just an upgrade. It really did change and works for us.

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Answer
Since you discovered Linux...
Jul 15, 2017 3:47AM PDT

Hi James,
I know that since you discovered Linus, you have become a bit of evangelist for it - nothing wrong with that, I use OpenSuSE on my primary day to day machine. But we do well to remember that however easy it may be to use, and it's improved beyond recognition from the early days, it ISN'T Windows! That doesn't mean I'm likely to switch back to Windows but for your average user with a history of Windows, it's a step they may not want to take. How many regular windows users use the command line regularly or Powershell? Yes, I know it isn't necessary, by and large, to use thise equivalents in Linux but if a user is unwilling to make the transition form Windows 7 to 10, what chance is there of moving to something inherently different in design? The market share for Linux Desktop says it all.

The preamble does have a purpose, though, committed Windows users do have to make a rational decision as we approach the end of this decade and early next. The ONLY version of Windows that will be supported with security patches in late 2023 is Windows 10 or possibly WaaS. So if you see Windows in your future, you do need to get to Windows 10. Whether you do that now or whether you wait for the next few editions and the enhancements they are likely to bring is up to you but you will need to go that way eventually. It begs the question, of course, are 1511, 1607 and 1703 all the same operating system, just upgrades or are they really Windows 10, 11 and 12? I'll leave wiser heads to debate that!

Having used Windows from 3.1, 95, 98, ME (yes I liked it and it was stable but mine was the UK edition), 2000, XP and 7, all through business use, I chose not to upgrade to 10. Initially, this was because 3 out of the 4 machines I had, would happily run 7 SP1 but would not run 10 (all lacked NS/NX) despite M/S trying to force them on to it for me! Now a couple of these machines have been replaced with newer units, I had the choice, albeit with a mix of systems. On one I took advantage of the free upgrade to 10 to be able to support other extended family members but it's HDD sits in a drawer unless I have cause to need it. The second I did use the still free method to get it updated and register its digital entitlement with M/S in case I ever need it and then wiped the HDD and went back to 7. I offered the upgrade to my better half on her Windows 8.1 laptop but she declined - I won't even try to explain why!

I think your assertion that M/S just see the migration as inevitable, as older machines are retired, is probably correct, as I implied in my preamble. Yes there will be a few losses to Apple (got to keep Tim at the top of the CEO pay list!) and a smaller number to Linux (you may not agree with this ratio but a Mac, like a Windows machine, comes ready to run out of the box) but does a few percent loss of market share really matter in 90%?

There is, of course, a great divide between consumers and business. Consumers may have just one machine or at most, a handfull, mostly running standard M/S operating systems and off the shelf applications. To upgrade or replace on that scale is relatively trivial. And adjusting to new facilities or ways of doing basically similar things is not overly onerous (I make the distinction here between similar, as in Windows and different, as in MacOS or Linux).

Business on the other hand, may have thousands of PCs and a plethora of specific or customized applications, all of which will need to be checked, modified where necessary and tested. Then the users will all need to be educated in the new interface without losing too much productivity. So the migration will be slower but still ultimately inevitable.

Looking at the inability of newer generations of hardware to run Windows prior to 10, I'm not sure there is any particular technical advantage in Intel and AMD throwing in with Microsoft on this, except perhaps "considerations" from Microsoft to do so. I don't believe the hardware is incapable of so doing, as has been demonstrated by the developer who devised a modification to allow the latest processors to run Windows 7 and 8. Changing the hardware architecture to achieve that would be way too costly and restrictive. The assertion by M/S is on a par with dropping the Windows 7 games from 10; a simple change to a branch restored them!

So where is Windows headed? Microsoft have said Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows. I've already alluded to it simply being a case of nomenclature 1511 = 10, 1607 = 11, 1703 = 12, etc. I think we can perhaps get a clue from Office. It hasn't escaped notice that M/S are heavily pushing Office 365, as a rental basis system, rather than a permanent license sale (you never did "own" it) and more recently with Azure and the Cloud. It may be that the ultimate destination for Windows is also to this rental basis, "Windows as a Service" (WaaS) if you like. Maybe that's why M/S is emphasizing Windows Defender on 10 as the better option for security than a third party add-on (whether you believe that or not - I don't). The bulk of the recent lay-offs appear to be sales and support for the traditional permanent license operation, while they are putting heavy marketing emphasis in the Cloud. Or it may just be a reflection of declining PC sales.

Strayed a bit from your initial question, James, so put me down as a Windows 10 rejection for the time being. What happens after it becomes unsafe to run 7 (2020), I haven't made up my mind yet.

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My acceptance and use of Linux vs Windows...
Jul 15, 2017 2:00PM PDT

....was after a number of years and earlier investigations of Linux which at the time I considered as not measuring up to my needs and wants. It's one reason I stayed with W2K for years after XP was released. Finally with no other choice, since Linux still wasn't up to my required standard I moved on to XP. Other than the activation virus Microsoft supplied with that system, it had conquered it's earlier problems and met my expectations, until SP3 came out and regressions caused problems. One particular regression was the failing of activation, getting locked into a loop, unable to reactivate, unless one ran regedit and removed the WPA section, rebooted and then could get the activation software to work again.

The main Linux I'd investigated and watched over the years was Knoppix. I also had check on Lindows which after court case became Freespire. In fact, it wasn't till Ubuntu came along I finally began to look more on Linux as a possible desktop replacement OS. Again however, I failed to adopt it as my OS of choice. Nevertheless I was glad to see improvement in Linux and kept my eye on it's further development.

A year before XP was to expire, and not being as enamored of W7 as many others have been (especially didn't care for it's networking setup, and iconage and color schemes), I began to actively search out linux distros and loading into virtual machines, under windows, using VPC. I tried out a number of them, even obscure ones like Easy Peasy, until I found Kubuntu 12.04 and finally decided Linux had arrived as a valid desktop OS. I found myself using it more and more, and XP less and less. Eventually I moved from Kubuntu to Mint 14 and been with it since, now using 17.3

Now, you might think that's a "fanboy" approach, but to me it's far from it. After XP, and trying out Vista, and some problems my wife and daughter had encountered, requiring my fixing it for them, I knew there were certain requirements I definitely wanted in an OS.

Those were fairly simple. Security. Stability, PRIVACY, user control (such as updates), among other lesser considerations. Just like many, I was reluctant to leave the Windows Farm, but deciding they'd actually left me and what I wanted in an OS. I went over to Linux.

So, why wouldn't I want others to enjoy the same as I have for the past 3-4 years? It's a common human trait to make helpful suggestions to others, especially if they are having problems with something else. We do that as humans with all sorts of other problems, cars, food, finances, jobs, etc.

As for Operating Systems and fanboys, I can confidently say nothing has changed in that regard when it comes to Microsoft Windows. The magazines all line up to talk and report on it, glowing stories and reviews are paid for, big conventions are set for latest releases, and yet, where are those whose accusations of "fanboys" against Linux users to say the same for even more done from Windows?

I personally don't care which side is puffing itself up or slamming the other side. What I do care about is what works for me and believe will work well for others, especially those who are ALREADY dissatisfied with Windows. They are wishing they had another choice. At times I simply point out their other choices. I don't care if they go to Mac, if they are willing to buy the expensive equipment to do so. Linux however is the best choice for those already on older hardware and wish to keep using it. Giving people alternate choices is better than expecting or trying to force others into just one same mold when it comes to operating systems. I point out that now there are other choices that may meet the requirements of many who have yet to try it out.

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Answer
How Many Times Do We Need to Hear This???
Jul 15, 2017 6:56AM PDT

The reports of the death of Windows 10 are greatly exaggerated. And we have heard them all before, with every new version of Windows that has ever been released, even including the belatedly beloved XP.

Of COURSE the rate of adoption has slowed. How could it not? Nearly everyone already has Windows 10 already.

It is the most logical, most secure, most reliable, and most user-friendly (unless you are a newbie or like to play with toys or burn money, and for you Apple is fine) O/S ever, including HA Unix. I am an old Unix guy going back to LONG before the origin of PCs of any kind (including the Sinclair and the TRS-80), and I have two Linux boxes, but I put Linux only on computers that I have retired from production use and replaced already.

The arguments about privacy are bogus. You are really paranoid if you think Microsoft is watching you. Although it might have been better if they had all their various telemetries turned off by default, you can turn it off, all of it or whatever parts of it you fear, in whatever increments you choose.

These stories are absurd but I guess I must resign myself to seeing them from time to time, because grousers gotta grouse, I suppose.

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Not quite
Jul 15, 2017 2:21PM PDT
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MS at work, hard:
Jul 21, 2017 12:25PM PDT
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4 years is too old now for 10?
Jul 23, 2017 5:37AM PDT
"Atom Clover Trail CPUs are from the tablet-based days of Windows 8 (they all launched in 2012 and 2013), .....But if Windows 10 truly is the final version of Windows, we do have to expect it to leave older machines in the dust eventually."

Windows 8 computers that won't be allowed on version 10 (should have been 9)??? Makes me wonder what's really going on behind the public image at Microsoft.