Will Microsoft upgrade Windows 8 &.8.1 to 9 free of cost

Contrary to popular belief, Microsoft isn't a philanthropic charity. They spend big bucks to develop a new release, they have to recover that cost somehow.

Consider an analogy, suppose you buy a new car and six months later, the manufacturer comes out with an updated model with a more fuel efficient engine. Do you go along to your dealer and ask him to install the new engine in your car for free? Good luck with that!

Jimmy is absolutely correct, you bought a new computer at a given specification and you got exactly what you paid for. That's it. It isn't actually a huge secret that Windows 9 would ship in 1H15, if you care that much, perhaps it would have been wiser to hang on for 9?

In the past, after a new version has been formally announced, with full definition of features and prices and a shipment date, Microsoft have provided upgrade rights, either free or at very low cost to customers buying the current version during that period up to shipment date of the new version. Make no mistake, that isn't generosity, it's to keep the revenue flowing during the limbo period.

Technically it's the major OEMs that do that. Granted it's with Microsoft's blessing, but it's so that sales of new units don't collapse while the new version of Windows is still being tested.

True, care makers would not give you the new engine. However, we have seen other things happen that fly against that in the computer world. For example, Windows 8.1 was free if you already had 8.0. Also, most OEMS will offer a free upgrade to a new "engine" if the new version is coming out in the near future. You would not see a car dealer telling you to buy the car now and they will swap out for the new engine if it comes out in less than 45 days. But it does happen with OEM computer deals.

AGREED !!!! YES, HALLELUIAH, YES.

Microsoft doesn't owe us anything.

But... what about how MicroCrap screwed a lot of us over when they offered their 'FREE' update to Windows 8.1 via their STORE? Actually insisted (a.k.a., FORCED) that we do the update or else...Da ta da daaaa...
we wont be eligible to further receive important Windows security updates.
It messed up a lot of customers partitions so they (i.e., we) can not do a simple MicroCrap 'Refresh" that they so brag about. Errors such as, 'Missing Partition' or 'Cant find missing files'...thus one can not do a 'Refresh' or 'Reset'. Oh yes, they don't bother to warn customers of this partition business before the customer updates. There are no known good fixes out there and not even an acknowledgment from MS about the problem, especially if you're an OEM customer. All because MS refuses to put out a simple .iso (that will work, including a few extra tricks) of Win 8.1. They seem to guard it as if it came from a Fort Knox vault.

So, if you didn't have the forethought to make a System Image through MicroCraps' own tools, you're screwed.
I've wasted so much time troubleshooting this fact, that it became maddening and apparent of the way MS figures all aspects, that they have us by the proverbial 'Balls'. Its beyond me how a Company's IT people are dealing with all this BS from MS...
C'mon, we all hate Microsoft's hold on the PC market, even more now. They even try to force their way when simply trying to install the OS now.
I am just waiting for some big Corporation to sue the piss out MS because they made the Company loose much data, time, effort and money. Gosh, one would think that if MS itself would stop putting out their software before it is ready, they would save themselves quite a lot of time, effort and money also.

Yeah, they spend lots of money developing their software, but, where is the research before releasing.
Yeah, we all feel so sorry for them, so under paid and un-loved...poor guys...
Recovering their costs shouldn't include 'at customers expense'. They have people in high places that get paid to do what they do, c'mon...get real.

Its as simple as this...Microsoft has become a monopoly in the PC market and can and will do as they please with no one to answer to until someone of means holds them accountable. Oh wait, what was I thinking... There is no-one of means that matches or is greater than Microsoft, darn.

Linux and Mac...my quote...'Software before its time'...
Microsoft...'Software before its ready'...ALWAYS and FOREVER, (apparently).

Excuse the rant...back to the question at hand...

Does Microsoft owe us anything?

...SERIOUSLY?

Le sigh... I wish people would take at least a few seconds to think these things through before posting.

First off, Windows 8.0 is still receiving security updates and will for several more years. Vista still has about a year and a half before it's done. The update you're talking about, which wasn't very well covered by the tech press, applies only to Windows 8.1 users. Part of the problem is that the tech "press" today consists largely of new "blogs" where it's all about being the first one with a story, regardless of the facts. Being first means more people coming to your site, more ad revenue, etc. Most of the rest is made up of places that will just put up a company press release, add maybe 1-2 introductory sentences, and call it a story. In this particular case, however, some blame does have to rest with MS for it's awkward named 8.1 Update 1 patch. Still, it's hardly the first time MS has done something like this. It happens all the time that this or that patch has a dependency requiring some other patch be installed. I'm not really sure why it is this one was suddenly so special, except for saying what's old is new again. All the tweens and 20-somethings who don't know anything about what computers were like before about circa 2005, are suddenly "discovering" all these things that have been going on for decades and never seemed to bother anyone overly much.

Second, under the general principles of capitalism and the free market, isn't Microsoft perfectly entitled to make these decisions about their own products? I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, just that under the general principles of most of the western world, they're well within their legal rights.

I'd be willing to give you a lot more credit for the asinine decision not to release an ISO of 8.1 to the general public if you weren't hamming it up so much.

But I don't think you seem to quite understand how capitalism works. If Microsoft isn't allowed to recoup their development costs at the expense of customers (i.e. people buying their software) then how exactly do you propose that Microsoft recoups its development expenditures? Hire a bunch of imaginary people with make-believe ladders to continually collect money off the fictional money tree? From the standpoint of a company like Microsoft, it's irresistible force meets immovable object. If they don't keep putting out new versions of their software, people will eventually stop buying copies of the old stuff, the revenue stream dries up, they go out of business. Or a competitor comes in and takes advantage of Microsoft's inattention to the market (see Firefox and Android) and starts eating their lunch, revenue dries up, they go out of business. Of course there's always the risk that people won't like the changes you've made because humans are nothing if contradictory. We crave variety, but hate change. The only consistent complaint you ever see about Windows 8 is the tile interface. Sure, it's odd and a little annoying, but so what?

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you've never written a single line of programming code in your life. It might just be that you have the whole armchair quarterback/Captain Hindsight vibe going with your post, but developing software is not as easy as it seems. It's a lot of painstaking work and by the time you get to a couple hundred lines of code it's pretty easy for different parts of your code to start interacting with one another in ways you didn't anticipate. That's just with a single developer who wrote all the code. When you start adding in multiple developers, all working on different parts of the overall program, it gets to be all the more likely. It doesn't matter how thoroughly each developer tests his/her own code, when you put them together you get more than the sum of their parts.

I'm all for Microsoft completely scrapping the entire Windows code base and starting fresh like they wanted to do with Vista, but had to cut things a bit short because of how massive an undertaking it became. Take the decades of experience that has built up about how not to do this and methods that have proven effective for handling that kind of problem and roll it all up into a new product. Drop all backwards compatibility, which is where most of the problems are coming from, start fresh with a brand new binary format and API. You'd likely see a Windows that is everything people say they want: Fast, secure, easy on resources, you name it. Of course very few people would actually buy it, because as much as people like you love to complain, when it comes time to actually put your money where your mouth is, your convictions don't match up with your bluster.

first,
been using since windows 3...
MS has always had to do big fixes and or service packs...
other os's, not so much. and, yes, it has bothered people. a lot...talk to your peers.

second,
yes, 'under the general principles of capitalism and the free market' MS can make their own decisions. ...at whose expense? change their own OS in mid-stream?...and force it on customers, at customers expense?

third,
as far as MS profit margin and assets...look them up on the Fortune 500...they aren't hurting, sorry friend. that's how they get richer than us sheep out here... the new versions are 'FIXES', not things for our convenience...read some troubleshooting issues all over the web, about Win 8.1...there are FAR MORE ISSUES other than Windows 8.1 tile interface problems. I'm talking about stuff like destroying your partitions, so that its irreparable...many, many other issues than piddly things you speak of, such as how the tiles look...Please...Customers are being forced to re-buy MS's OS (after already having it on their computers from an OEM) because they don't have the technical knowledge to do MS's FIXES...customers are threatening to leave MS for Linux and Mac's. Most bigger business's use Linux anyway...(There's a reason)

fourth,
its the developers job, if they are not competent, then they need to go, don't they...
MS's developers have sadly fallen behind the times on things. Do some research next time you have trouble with MS Windows.

fifth,
they cant start anew...lets really take the time to think about what you just said...
there are so many PC's out here that MS knows what a disaster that would be..that's like asking all their customers to change over to something MS newly develops and go for it...TRUST it in other words.

No, I have not written any code, but I do keep up a Company's computer systems, including their servers. I have put my money where my mouth is, banking on MS for the last 30 yrs actually... one would think they would just get better and better, but no...alas, we are MS's fools...still waiting and hoping...because we don't have endless time to troubleshoot their glitches.

However I continue to help those that get hit with malware or registry cleaners.
Bob

Difficult to say given your general lack of doing any sort of root-cause analysis and just leaping to the conclusions that it's Windows.

Linux puts out regular security patches, Apple puts out regular security patches, all the major Unix vendors (HP, IBM, Oracle, etc) put out security patches... What exactly is unique about Microsoft here? What Microsoft does is commit to providing security updates for roughly 10 years from the time of release... For free, or included in the license fee. Apple will just decide one day, with no announcement let alone warning, that they're done supporting some version of Mac OS X. The major Unix vendors will want to sell you a service contract which then entitles you to all the fixes that come out while your service contract is still in effect. I forget if it's Oracle or HP, but one of the two has actually taken another company to court for allegedly distributing security updates. So among the commercial players, Microsoft's method may have its flaws, but it's considerably better than the competition which is a big part of how Microsoft took the computing world by storm back in the 80s. The major Unix players were pulling the same crap then as they do now. It had little to do with the low up-front costs of the software, only individual consumers think on such a limited scale. When you're talking total cost of ownership, Microsoft wins quite handily compared to pretty much every other commercial player in no small part to that commitment to putting out updates long after they've stopped selling an OS.

2: Where exactly did MS change their OS "mid-stream"? If people didn't want to install the 8.1 update they didn't have to and they'll still be getting updates. Of course if you had half a clue about what it takes to develop software, you'd understand there are frequently very good technical reasons for making sure people have a certain baseline. But I digress, because you keep making all kinds of claims but never back them up with anything. Just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true.

3: This isn't a discussion on macro-economic policy. The basic principle of capitalism is to charge as much as the market will bear and Microsoft has a legal responsibility to return value to its shareholders. There are plenty of things I don't like about the way Microsoft does business, like how they (and pretty much every other Fortune 500 company) will pay an army of beancounters and lawyers to find tax loopholes the world over, then turn around and whine about the crumbling infrastructure in the US that was traditionally supported by the taxes paid by large corporations. Now that corporations are people, at least in the US, I'd like to see each and every corporation out there have to file an individual tax return just like the rest of us and pay the same effective tax rate as the rest of us. Let's see them chipping into FICA and unemployment like the rest of us. Let's see states and even local governments start clawing back tax breaks they gave to companies to get them to locate there or do something else, which the company then welched on. Like when the US government gave a tax holiday to large companies to repatriate all the money they have sitting overseas on the promise that the companies would invest that money into creating jobs, only to have the money go straight into the company bank accounts or paid out to shareholders in dividends with absolutely no consequences. The companies even had the nerve to ask for ANOTHER such tax holiday. For that matter, let's see some politicians who aren't willing to give away millions of dollars in tax breaks for a handful of minimum wage jobs. Let's see a deal hammered out where it's cost neutral, including anticipated inflation, within 5 years with stiff penalties for the company if they leave before then. Why not require the company CEO to serve out any jail/prison time if the company is convicted of a crime. Do that and I'll bet you'll see legislation pass through Congress in record time to undo that particular ruling. I'm all for undoing a lot of the neo-conservative economic policies that were put into place under Bush Jr. and his Supreme Court lackies, lest you think I'm some kind of libertrian nutter who thinks that the free market actually works despite centuries worth of examples to say otherwise or even worse, some selfish narcissistic tea party type who can't think past the immediate impact on my own wallet to figure out that large corporate interests like the Koch brothers are using the misguided idealism to line their own pockets.

You should ask yourself why Microsoft continues to do so well. PC sales have dropped off a cliff, Microsoft was far too slow to join the phone/tablet party and so far can't dislodge Apple and Google no matter how much money they pour into the effort. The games division probably barely breaks even, same with properties like Bing. So where is Microsoft coming up with a couple billion dollars in profit? You ever stop to ponder that one or take a look at financial reports to get the breakdown? This is what I mean by spending 30 seconds or so thinking things through instead of spouting off whatever random cockeyed conspiracy theory pops into your head first.

Fouth: So Linux never has bugs? No bugs in KDE, GNOME, any of that? Apple never has bugs or the major Unix vendors? It's a unique phenomenon to Microsoft is it? You're going to have to explain to me how bugs affecting Microsoft products are different from similar bugs affecting other products because right now all I've got is that they impact you personally and also that since you like Linux, you're more willing to excuse its shortcomings.

Fifth: Thanks for proving my point.

Sixth and finally: Using and writing software are two entirely different things. It's like writing a murder-mystery novel and writing one. Go ahead, just sit down in front of your text editor or word processor of choice and write the next great american murder-mystery novel without any kind of planning. Of course if you want to cut down on the amount of time it takes you to troubleshoot issues, learn to program. Seriously. Once you learn how programs are created you will be better able to isolate the problem. It will also be much easier for you to tell whether or not something is a software issue or a hardware issue. You would be amazed at what you can deduce about certain programs based on even a rather limited knowledge of programming. You'll also develop a good understanding of what it's like on the other side. It's easy to look at something with the clarity of hindsight and say it should have been done this way or that, it's a far different story when you have to make a decision several months/years out.

No, I digress, since you know so much about writing programs, why don't you just write us all an Operating System?

That's what we need...someone like you to pull us all out of it.

Oh, gotta go, ...Don't have time for this...since I'm too busy fixing everyone's MS based computers.

MS pretty much has us all up against the wall...
Just PLEASE people, stop letting MS get away with their robbery and lets stand up and do something about it...

I see, so you are unable to come up with any rebuttal, but instead of gracefully admitting that your position is untenable you throw a tantrum like a toddler who takes their toys home when they start to lose at a game and then add in a few petty ad hominems to boot. Real mature.

I do fully agree with your last statement, minus the hyperbole robbery bit anyway. However, you're skipping the ever important first step: Establishing who or what is actually at fault. Once you've done that you can figure out who the best person is to address the issue and take it up with them. If it's Microsoft, so be it, but if you actually put in the work you'll find that the majority of the time, the blame lies elsewhere. Not always, but more often than not.

You must be a glutton for punishment. Until you change to something else, your complaints will fall on deaf ears, or provide food for your abuse. How much abuse are you willing to take over it? The best things in life are free, or at least that's what Jesus said.When you finally are tired of the abuse, then change. That's what I did.

I'll take the plunge,I don't have much on my 8.1 computer so if I don't like it I can just pop in my 8.1 discs and carry on.

Digger

Please don't be too quick to plunge into the upgrade, even if its free.
See my above post about Software giants releasing software before its time, and various other issues all over the web...caused from too soon...none good.

I'm in a unique situation...
I just built this 8.1 computer and other than the operating system ,there's really nothing that I don't have backed up several ways, also I have the retail 8.1 discs as well as a system image if I wanted to use it . So, I'll play with a free Win 9 and make an system image of it as well. Why not ?

I won't pay for Win 9 right now though since 8.1 runs so well.
I also have a Windows 7 laptop and a Debian computer.

Digger

other than the operating system , there's really nothing on there....

Digger

Yes, then if you have all that backup...go for it...
I was mainly speaking of someone that bought an OEM system...or even those who have W-8 discs, but not W-8.1...
Or for those who don't have the means to 'play' (lack of knowledge or time) with it and simply need it to work reliably...like business, etc....
I was just sayin that MS forces an 8.1 update which screws up the hard drive, then wont give us a means to fix it....such as putting out a W-8.1 ISO image which could fix this problem...
Oh sheesh...be the same thing when W-9 comes out...there'll be all kinds of fixes and updates with it too, i'm sure...
But yeah, I did the same thing with W-8...I downloaded the 'Preview' version so I could play with it and be that much more agead of the game when it came time to install it for real...

Just today I took a read from http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks and here's the awful truth. You gotta love errors like we see today as it means that a degree in programming is going to keep you busy for years.

Best snippet I read today?

"ERROR: Attempted to parse HTML with regular expression; system returned Cthulhu."

And never do <Cthulhu> without this </Cthulhu>
Bob

that I ran cranes and bulldozers for a living

Digger

I always thought this funny...
Guys that can tear apart car engines, but are scared to death to tear apart a computer and add more ram... lol...
I tell them same diff except on a smaller scale...an be careful about static electricity...an you've got it covered...

in history of software. They make the Beta readily available and have plenty of real time, real work testing previous to release.

Technically you could consider Windows 8.1 a free OS update, since in some respects it could be seen as a minor upgrade like Windows XP from Windows 2000. I personally peg it as being more like Win98SE, more of a warmed over version of the same OS, but you could still make a reasonably cogent argument that 8.1 was a new OS that was given out as a free upgrade.

C'mon people, wake up...MS had to put out 8.1 cause they screwed up so bad and their customers complained. They didn't do anything out of the kindness of their hearts...

Please people, WAKE UP and do something about MS and their controlling abuse to their customers. I'm an OEM customer now, but have been a direct MS customer. Same difference, they should support their software in any case... then the OEM's should sue the piss outta MS along with big business's when they lose data, time and effort because of MS.
MS needs to stop releasing their software until it is tested and all glitches are worked out. Thats what all their 'updates' are about, FIXING, not making it a better OS.

Let me guess... You're one of those people prone to hyperbole and exaggeration? You ever notice people often times give you blank stares or just sort of smile and nod, making generic non-committal comments?

If the problem were even half as widespread as you would have everyone believe with your constant breathless exposition, it would have been picked up by the mainstream media. As it is, not even the tech media bothered picking it up. Every time there's some major update to Windows, things go wrong on a few people's computers and within 5 seconds they've deduced that it's Microsoft's fault.

Remember when XP SP3 came out and there were rumors about it bricking systems with AMD CPUs? I'll bet you do. Remember how in the final analysis it had nothing at all to do with MS or SP3, but rather something screwy with the way HP made the disk images it loaded onto its computers? I didn't think so.

And you're one of those people who must secretly owns stock in Microsoft...No, no one gives me blank stares...not the people who are constantly asking me for help with their W-8 or 8.1...

You apparently must have a very limited websites that you like to go to for you're troubleshooting efforts, because as stated above this and many other problems are all over...its not a few people...not rumors. You're siting just one HP issue...the W-8.1 issues are very much more widespread and of very wide variety.

Please see attached link, very informative...

http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/the-new-kb-2919355-windows-81-update-causes-more-problems-it-fixes-242016

That explains it. Infoworld is big on taking a non-issue and trying to make it seem like the end of the world as we know it... Wonder where I've seen something like that before? One thing I will give you credit for, however, is at least so far you've refrained from trotting out the "Microsoft shill" card when someone starts presenting reasoned counter-arguments. I'll confess to have been waiting for that one to come along. It's like that axiom about how eventually every argument will devolve to a point where someone makes a comparison to Hitler.

There's something like 1.5 billion people using Windows in the world... Think I even got that statistic from some Infoworld article, but not important. I forget what the latest estimates are, but let's go conservative and assume Windows 8 represents 25% of that 1.5 billion. So that works out to what, about 375 million people around the world using it? How many people have come to you with a problem? Ten, maybe twenty? Not even a rounding error. Let's say you find 100 more on various web forums and for the sake of argument we'll assume they're all unique individuals, not the same moron posting the same issue half a dozen times. We're still deep in "not even a rounding error" territory here. You could find 1,000 unique individuals and only be approaching a rounding error.

But let's go a little deeper. Let's say 50 different people have approached you personally. Out of those 50 people, and be honest here, how many of them are what you would call technically savvy or sophisticated? How many of them would fall closer to the "has trouble figuring out how to turn it on" end of the spectrum? Do any of them even spend 5 minutes searching with Google to try and find the solution to a problem or do they just give up immediately? And still being honest, how much time did you personally spend inspecting each computer? How much time did you spend interviewing each individual who approached you to find out whether or not they have any risky habits, where they absolutely sure they were free of malware, the ever important follow-up of how do they know? How much time did you spend doing a forensic analysis of the computers you were approached about? Did you ever even lay eyes, let alone hands, on a single one? How exactly is it that you personally know that each and every one of these cases was a result of the Windows 8.1 update?

I have to ask, because even rather sophisticated users can be fooled. I have a friend who is probably at least on par with me (he's better in some areas, worse in others, so it more or less evens out) ran into the Windows profile corruption bug and was convinced that this was something unique about the new quasi-roaming profiles feature in Windows 8. If you were looking only for information about Windows 8, which would be logical if you're looking to resolve the issue, it would be easy to miss that this problem dates back to at least Windows XP, but in all probably it goes all the way back to NT 3.1. Of course that was before the Internet and the relatively low numbers of people using the NT branch of Windows pre-XP might mean that it flew under the radar, so to speak.

So have you personally ever even laid eyes on a single one of the systems you claim to have been asked about? Have you performed any kind of testing in a manner at least in the spirit of the scientific method? Like say a system blows up in the way you describe. From a freshly restored factory image, have you attempted the update again to see if it blows up a second time? Thus suggesting very strongly that there is something about the update image, or the way it interacts with the recovery partition, which is the problem. From there you can keep narrowing it down to try and figure out exactly what is at fault.

Sounds to me like it's just a new twist on an old problem. You have Windows XYZ SP1 installed, but your restore media is for Windows XYZ no SP level. You can't do a restore of XYZ SP1 with just XYZ media because the files modified by SP1 do not exist in their modified state on the plain XYZ media. In this case it would involve a new approach compared to the old method of slipstreaming.

So it's difficult not to think that your just lashing out at Microsoft because your pride has been wounded. They changed a process that you understood and replaced it with one you don't. You are no longer in control of the situation, it is unfamiliar to you, it has exposed a weakness in you and you are afraid it will cause you to lose standing with your colleagues. So you do the one thing you can do which is lash out at the company that caused you this emotional pain. A perfectly normal response, but not exactly a helpful one. All the time and energy you waste on grousing about Microsoft is time and energy you could be spending on figuring out how to deal with this situation and thus resolving the problem.

Yes, I've laid eyes and touched them...Goodness, would you please go look on the web for issues about 8.1? Please, you desperately need so you can catch up w things...And please talk to some techs who actually work on computers. They all hate MS's 8 and 8.1...MS has intentionally made it difficult to work on this OS, I'm not just talking bout Joe Blow, I'm talkin bout IT Techs here. We all hate it...and yes it is all over Tech sites, not just Infoworld....
Even a couple articles on here...WAKE UP!!!! Do your research before bashing us and taking up for MS...Who does that now days...fight for MS...The people who have to constantly go behind MS and fix their screw ups are fed up with them (MS). They purposely make it harder and harder for people to work on their OS.
No, its not Malware problems...any tech worth anything checks these things out first...
I am talkin bout a MS 8.1 system, being newly clean installed...not computers that have been played on for months or even days...CLEAN INSTALLS...It cant even format a hard drive correctly now days.
Its MS badly written programing doing this, not the machines fault or the poor dumb users, as you insinuate.
Sheesh, there are problems that us techs are fighting...we need easy ways to back up our OS's when things go bad. Not spending every minute working on them to find fixes...Just do some reading before you take up for a company that controls the entire world. They have their hands in everything out there...
Look who bought the Clippers basketball team other day...The ex MS exec Steve Ballmer...yeah MS's people are so underpaid and mistreated.
Just sayin that for all that money floatin around, seems like they could get it right.