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General discussion

Wich hdv format camcorder can be compared with the sony HDR-

Dec 20, 2010 11:15AM PST

Wich hdv format camcorder can be compared with the sony HDR-CX12?

i was thinking of purchasing a Sony HDR-CX12 AVCHD camcorder but after some research i found that the AVCHD format can be quite difficult to work with but i really like the quality of this camcorder and the options are great especially the multi functional ring on the front. so is there an HDV format camcorder out there that has the same quality and the same options? also why does sony make so many AVCHD camcorders and so little HDV? and if i do decide to buy the CX12. wil converting to DV-AVI hurt the quality or resolution of my footage?

Discussion is locked

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I'll give it a shot...
Dec 21, 2010 1:41AM PST

The CX12 *was* an entry level consumer cam recording AVCHD compressed MTS files. It was replaced by the HDR-CX300 series. The CX12 is discontinued. The HC9 was the latest in the HDR-HC series (HC1, 3, 5, 7). The HC1 was probably the best of the lot - it is still around under the guise of the HVR-A1 in Sony's professional line-up.

Lens filter diameter:
CX12 & HC9: 37mm: tie

Imaging chip:
CX12: single 1/3.3-inch CMOS
HC9: single 1/2.9-inch CMOS
Larger is generally better. Advantage: HC9

Audio input jack:
CX12: None - unless the proprietary AIS is used.
HC9: 1/8" (3.5m) stereo audio input jack and proprietary AIS.
Advantage: HC9.

built-in infrared emitter ("NightShot" mode):
CX12 & HC9: yes: tie

Optical zoom:
CX12 & HC9: 12x: tie

Recorded video data rate:
HC9: HDV: 25mbps; DV: 25mbps
CX12: AVCHD: 16mbps (best); standard def MPEG2:9mbps
Higher data rate is better: Advantage: HC9

Manual controls:
Basically the same: Tie

Manual audio gain:
HC9: Yes
CX12: No.
Advantage: HC9.

Still features - my opinion: irrelevant. Use a camcorder for video; use a still camera for stills.

Video transfer:
HC9: Connect a firewire cable to the camcorder's DV port and computer's firewire port; import video from digital tape with video editor.
CX12: Place camcorder in dock. Connect USB cable to USB ports on computer and dock. Video editing app dictates whether MTS files copied + transcoded or imported/captured directly to MTS capable video editor.
Note: Software included in the box with a consumer camcorder is useless. Don't bother installing it. Newer Macs include iMovie which is AVCHD/MTS capable. Final Cut is preferred. For Windows, MovieMaker will be challenged by AVCHD/MTS; Sony Vegas and Adobe Premiere are the usual suspects.
No "advantage". The process is what it is. If your computer has no firewire port and there is no way to add one, then getting a miniDV tape based camcorder is pointless.

Video archiving:
CX12: Copy the original MTS data files to a RAID1 multi-drive array set-up.
HC9: After capturing the video, take the digital tape out of the camcorder, lock the tape. This is the archive.

High definition video playback:
CX12: Options include computer file video render and BluRay player playback.
HC9: Options include computer file video render, BluRay player playback and exporting the video project from the computer to the HDV camcorder to digital tape and connecting the HDV camcorder to the HDTV to be used as a HDV deck.
Advantage: HC9.

++++++++++++

The CX12 was an OK camcorder a while ago - the CX300 series is an OK camcorder now. Unless you have specific requirements, you might want to also investigate the Canon HF S series (specifically, the HF S200) if flash memory is the storage method of choice. The Canon HV40 is their entry-level miniDV tape HDV camcorder.

The Sony HDR-HC9 was discontinued - last year, I think - but brought back. It is Sony's entry-level miniDV tape HDV camcorder.

There has never been a large selection of consumer HDV cams, so this is nothing too new. The Sony HDR-HC series and Canon HV series were always about it.

"Converting to DV-AVI" can "hurt" the quality or resolution of video if the video is compressed a lot in that process.

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thanx
Dec 21, 2010 11:21AM PST

thanx so much for all the info. i guess i would have to go with the hc9.

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one more thing
Dec 21, 2010 11:29AM PST

i saw that the cx12 had a manual controle ring that could be used to focus or controle another function but the hc 9 doesnt seem to have it

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The easy way
Dec 21, 2010 12:48PM PST

is to download and read through the manual...

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRHC9.pdf
See page 26. The "manual control" is via shared recessed thumbwheel on the left side of the lens barrel. This is similar to the Canon cams previously mentioned.

I do have a correction to make - one of the manual controls - audio gain. The HC9 has a relatively granular 30 step - low to high level - adjustment. I indicated the CX12 has no manual audio control and that is not quite accurate. It has a very basic, 2-step - "Normal" and "MicRef Level - Low" setting (for high volume environments).

Since the HC9's was posted, here is the manual for the CX12:
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRCX12_EN_ES.pdf

Two other handy things the HC9 has that the CX12 does not... They may not be important to you:

* A proper headphone jack.

* A LANC port. This allows a special wired remote to be used. It is a small 2.5mm connector. The LANC (from Sony or third party manufacturers like VariZoom, Manfrotto and others) controls the zoom and focus - and depending on the unit, may have a button to capture stills. When used on a tripod, it helps keep the shots steadier because making adjustments by touching the camcorder can add shake to the captured image - but if a LAN is secured to the tripod handle, you are not touching/moving the camcorder... Sony makes a couple of tripods with the LANC built-in to the tripod handle. I think they are rather limiting and can't recommend them. I occasionally use a Kessler camera crane and the crane stage can be more than 8 feet away making it impossible to make any zoom or focus changes without a LANC connected to the camcorder with a rather long cable.

Since we don't know what computer you are using or what video editing application you are planning to use, there is no way for us to comment on whether AVCHD/MTS file editing would be a challenge.

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my pc and software
Dec 23, 2010 11:50AM PST

i have a msi motherboard i forget which series
4GB ram, Dual core 2.8ghz processor, Geforce 9400gt 1GB video card
i currently use Premiere pro And after effects cs3 but will upgrade to cs5 shortly

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Well...
Dec 23, 2010 10:28PM PST

The clock speed is good;
4 gig RAM is OK.
I presume you know which versions of your video editor will deal with the video formats (AVCHD/MTS from the CX12; HDV from the HC9).

Available hard drive space is unknown, but you can always add more.

The last item is whether the computer has a firewire port - a requirement for the HC9. The CX12 has no firewire requirement as it uses USB. Mentioned in the 12/21 post, 9:41am, "I'll give it a shot..." under "video transfer"...

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i do have fire wire.
Dec 24, 2010 1:05PM PST

so the avchd will not give me any trouble if i use premiere and after effects CS5?

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Okie dokie...
Dec 24, 2010 1:14PM PST

AVCHD compressed MTS files are with flash memory and hard disc drive consumer camcorders - and USB... and the HDR-CX12.

Firewire belongs with miniDV tape camcorders (consumer, prosumer and professional) and DV & HDV... and the HDR-HC9.

If you decide to go with the CX12 (and AVCHD/MTS files) check with Adobe to be sure your computer hardware meets (better yet, exceeds) the minimum requirements and the version of the Adobe software you are using is ready to deal with AVCHD.

Firewire and AVCHD have nothing to do with each other.

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thanx for the info
Dec 26, 2010 12:05PM PST

i do know what the firewire is for. i will use after effects and premiere pro cs5 as there is an option to import avchd on premiere pro cs5. my bottom line question is this, will i have any luck with the cx12 on my current system Hrdware and software? adobe provides minimum system requirements wich are some times not quite acurate. and once again i would like to thank u for taking the time to help me out.

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I generally try to
Dec 26, 2010 1:20PM PST

exceed the minimum requirements. As indicated in the "Well" and "Okie dokie" posts, if your computer meets Adobe's posted minimums, you should be "OK".

If your computer does not meet the minimums, then there's no valid complaint to Adobe... but if your computer meets or exceeds the minimums and there are issues, then at least there is some sort of recourse available. There are lots of times the software manufacturers may post "minimums" that are more than people really need because this is what the manufacturer tested with and can support. There are too many permutations to test/support because of all the different versions of Windows, hardware manufacturers, CPUs, RAM, hard drives, BIOS configurations...