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General discussion

Why is Saddam a 'prisoner of war'?

Dec 14, 2003 4:48PM PST

Why does the US regard the overthrown despot of Iraq to be a POW? And don't say it's because he is a prisoner seized as part of the United States' "war on terror" because it won't wash. We, Britain, have been fighting that war for decades, while the US was still playing at soldiers in the Nevada desert. But we don't accord POW status to those we arrest in our fight against terrorism.

1. There was no formal declaration of war against Iraq, and the US-led campaign was not against that country. It was only to overthrow a dictatorship. This is the same thing as when the alliance went up against the Taliban and its supporters, many of them now incarcerated and denied basic legal rights and status at Guantanamo.

2. There was no authority from the United Nations to "enforce" its resolution, indeed the US were expressly told to back off. So, since there is no lawful authority the US can claim to have in support of its attack on Iraq, doesn't that make every US service personnel there an "unlawful combatant" by its own definition of the term? In which case why aren't they being transported to Guantanamo and held there in the same conditions as your enemies?

3. If this is all part of the United States own private "war on terror" - a pseudo expression invented to excuse US anti-Muslim aggression in the world, then so is the campaign in Afghanistan. Since prisoners taken there are not POWs, and since they are treated so abhorrently, how can the US give a prisoner taken in Iraq status as a POW? He was not captured in uniform, he is not the head of state. He is a fugitive on the run from his own country, and a terrorist who is encouraging either directly or by his presence, acts of violence against the Iraqi people.

4. Saddam's offences are against his own people, and Iraq. They are not against America, or even the UN, since no WMD have been found so that charge is not proven. This makes him a common criminal, subject to the due process of his own country. Since America accepts Iraq jurisdiction in this matter, how can he ever be a POW, when his offences are against local criminal law and not the accepted rules of war?

America, you can't have it all ways just to suit your personal expansionist ambitions. If Saddam is a POW, then so are all the people held at Guantanamo. And if they are not and won't ever be, then neither is Saddam, and he should now join them there in the same conditions.

Your administration's hypocrisy is shameful, and demonstrates to the world yet again, that it has no sense of honour or integrity, and that it will twist the rules, or invent its own, to suit its own purposes. Its lack of consistency brings into question, the truth behind its military actions across the world, and casts a shadow over the whole nation.

Now Saddam is captured, Bush is the biggest despot on the planet. US military threats against other sovereign states is as much an act of terrorism, as the action of a suicide bomber. So go arrest George W Bush, your own President, as part of your so-called "war against terror". Prove to us that nobody is above the law, and that the United States knows the meaning of evenhanded justice, instead of being the bully boy of the world.

Discussion is locked

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He's not classified as a POW
Dec 14, 2003 7:20PM PST

According to Sec Rumsfeld, Saddam is not a POW.
He is being provided the same protections of the
Geneva Accords as a POW.

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Thanks for the clarification, Del. In less depth, I was
Dec 14, 2003 7:26PM PST

wondering that myself.

Ian

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Re:He's not classified as a POW
Dec 14, 2003 10:35PM PST

That is just playing with words, and changes nothing about the thrust of my message. Which is, since he is protected by POW rules, then so should everyone held at Guantanamo. If that is not appropriate for them, then it not appropriate for him either.

Oh, and on that topic, I see the US did not afford him sufficient protection under the convention, as to prevent the relase of footage os his medical inspection. Whatevr the motive, that film shows him looking like a lab test rat, and is publicly degrading and humiliating for him.... contrary to the Convention.

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Re: that film shows him looking like a lab test rat
Dec 14, 2003 11:10PM PST

strange phrase you used..... cos last time i saw one of those, the rat was pinned to a board and had it's stomach slit open....

IMO the film showed a captured tyrant being treated like a human being...

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dale why did you insult rats?
Dec 15, 2003 12:16AM PST

you never cease to suprise me with your hatred
they showed him getting good medical treatment more than he ever gave his own people

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Re:Re:He's not classified as a POW
Dec 15, 2003 5:50AM PST

Hi Dale,

I care to believe that even the most 'right wing'
out there had some question about that footage,
as the Geneva Accords might apply, but at the same
time felt no sympathy for him.

I hope that there was some deliberate decision to make
that footage available for the psyop weight it might
provide in the fight against terrorism and violence in
Iraq.

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Re:Re:Re:He's not classified as a POW
Dec 15, 2003 9:59AM PST

Propaganda is no excuse for breaking the protocol, Del. Either the US keeps to it, or stops saying it will when it cannot do so fully and unreservedly.

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Re:Why is Saddam a 'prisoner of war'?
Dec 14, 2003 8:20PM PST
1. There was no formal declaration of war against Iraq, and the US-led campaign was not against that country.

Not exactly true. AIR, war was officially declared in 1991 after a 1990 resolution authorized all possible means to liberate Kuwait and it never ended. A formal cease fire was signed pending on Saddam's compliance with U.N. resolutions that he never did meet the terms of. Technically, this could be seen as a continuance of that war.

IMO, Bush has already declared victory in the war signalling the end of the war and the beginning of our occupation which would seem to indicate that Saddam is not a POW.
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Re:Why is Saddam a 'prisoner of war'?
Dec 14, 2003 10:53PM PST

Hi Dale:

As Clay pointed out, the invasion of Iraq was not technically a new, separate war; rather it was a continuation of Gulf War I, which ended when Saddam agreed to abide by certain conditions, which he spent the next 12 years refusing to do. So in reality it was Saddam, not the US, who nullified that cease-fire.

I disagree that Saddam's offenses were only against the Iraqi people. I suspect the Kuwaitis disagree with that as well, as do the Iranians. Also, the fact that no WMD have been found does not change the fact that he played cat-and-mouse and refused to cooperate with the UN for years.

As for Bush, he will (hopefully) be dealt with in an appropriate manner -- at the polls in November of 2004.

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Ah yes, Bush to be dealth appropriately in November with his win. ..:-)
Dec 15, 2003 2:42AM PST

.

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LOL, the first thing I said to my wife when we saw the bulletin about Saddam.....
Dec 15, 2003 2:55AM PST

....was "Well that's it, Bush just got re-elected."

I had to immediately find the downside, didn't I.....

Wink

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Re:LOL, the first thing I said to my wife when we saw the bulletin about Saddam.....
Dec 15, 2003 5:56AM PST

Hi Josh,

If they can grab Osama (alive) and find a store
of any kind of WMD, Nov 04 would be history.

And the smartest of the bunch is Hillary, who is
being very coy, and smart, waiting to let the
calendar run and events transpire. No defeat that way.

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That's very true
Dec 15, 2003 6:14AM PST

Thatcher did the same in her time. Went to war over the Falklands, and got re-elected on a huge wave of popularity as the "tough leader". Nothing like starting a small war to swing public opinion in your favour.

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You're missing a number of points.
Dec 14, 2003 11:27PM PST

Saddam was the head of a defeated government who was defying the UN. This differs from the terrorists which were the reason for invading Afghanistan.

Current reports are indicating that the Weapons of Mass Destruction were moved to Iran and Syria.

There is now a reported link between Saddam and the attack in the US on Sept. 11. Apparently Mohammad Atta was trained in Iraq with Saddam's knowledge.

You might want to temper your views until more facts are known :&gtWink

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Re:You're missing a number of points.
Dec 14, 2003 11:41PM PST
There is now a reported link between Saddam and the attack in the US on Sept. 11.

Really? Where was it reported? This is news to me. If you have a link (and I mean a real link, not NewsMax or the Drudge Report), please post it.
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Re:Re:You're missing a number of points.
Dec 14, 2003 11:51PM PST
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Assuming the document is legit, it's a bombshell.....
Dec 15, 2003 12:08AM PST

....and will likely cause the Syrians to break out in a mass cold sweat.

One has to wonder though, why the Bush Administration downplays this alleged link when it would have provided a more legitimate reason for the invasion than "WMD" has panned out to be so far.

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Try this one also, Josh..
Dec 15, 2003 2:57AM PST
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp

"OSAMA BIN LADEN and Saddam Hussein had an operational relationship from the early 1990s to 2003 that involved training in explosives and weapons of mass destruction, logistical support for terrorist attacks, al Qaeda training camps and safe haven in Iraq, and Iraqi financial support for al Qaeda--perhaps even for Mohamed Atta--according to a top secret U.S. government memorandum obtained by THE WEEKLY STANDARD."

This appeared several weeks ago and was completely ignored by the mainstream media. Even after the pentagon confirmed it's authenticity.

Bo
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Again I must wonder....
Dec 15, 2003 4:07AM PST

....why the Administration has not played this up more if it's all true. I know they've mentioned it, and stated that there are connections, but they've never really tried that hard to prove it to the public. I think doing so would have added a lot more credibility and gotten us a lot more support than we got.

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With all the flap over Niger, I'm thinking ...
Dec 15, 2003 4:56AM PST

... wait and get all ducks in a row ... draw out all the whacky Dem conspiracy theories ... and come October, surprise!!!!

Evie Happy

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An uphill battle, Josh.
Dec 15, 2003 4:59AM PST

The information is made public and the media ignores it.

The president and his staff mention these items in speeches and the media continues to spout the "NO WMD/NO Al Quaida link" line, ignoring the published facts that make those claims spurious.

Perhaps, like myself, the admisistration has grown weary of getting the truth through the spin.

Bo

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Re:Why is Saddam a 'prisoner of war'?
Dec 15, 2003 2:51AM PST

Pres. Bush in the press conference today says Saddam will be dealth with by the Iraq people.

Dang, instead of Cuba I was thinking perhaps he would be shipped to west Texas for appropriate administration and trial.

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I saw that on TV
Dec 15, 2003 6:18AM PST

On the question of the death penalty, his exact words:

"I have my own personal view on that. But I am not an Iraqi citizen, and Saddam Hussain will be dealt with by the Iraqi people."

So now we sit and wait, to see if Bush can match those fancy words with deeds. Or will he become impatient again, and take over like he did with the UN?

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Re:I saw that on TV
Dec 15, 2003 10:12AM PST
So now we sit and wait, to see if Bush can match those fancy words with deeds. Or will he become impatient again, and take over like he did with the UN?

I'll wager with you that the Iraqi people will not drag their feet while he thumbs his nose at them like the U.N. did. They will take action against him for crimes such as using WMDs against his own people unlike the U.N. which only cowered and did nothing which you seem to indicate was appropriate.