Why buy Vista?

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by ict-cramps May 10, 2009 7:59PM PDT

Well the way i would look at it at the moment is like this. and see which one you fall into.

1) If you are in the market for the laptop are are thinking about buying one within the next month, your not worried so much about what the OS can do , but what hardware you get for your money, You know what you are looking and ready to buy one

2) You are looking at new laptops but you can wait till the end of the year/beginning of next year before you are going to make the decision to buy one. You are critical of what the OS can do and how the hardware works with the OS etc.

That and also When any New Windows OS is released then you are going to have the 6 months where there are problems and Microsoft release drivers and patchs etc.

In Summary.

If you have little knowledge of computers and use them on a general day-to-day basis just typing letters , browsing the internet watching videos etc. Then Stick to Windows Vista.

But if you are of computing knowledge and you go all out on your computer to put it through its maximium paces and you know how to fix the most minor or major or errors/problems. Then Yes get Windows 7.

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Vista isn't that bad

by Jimmy Greystone May 11, 2009 12:07AM PDT

Vista isn't that bad, it's just when it came out, the hardware demands far outstripped most of the low end budget systems people like to buy. A few years on now, even those cheap sub-$500 systems you find at Best Buy are more than enough to handle Vista.

People had the same complaints when XP first rolled onto the scene. Integrated graphics chips at the time would struggle to process the new Luna UI system, but given a little time they caught up, and people stopped complaining.

If you're upgrading from XP, there's little point to Vista, but if it's coming with a new system it's not something you need to avoid like the plague.

I personally just bought a new Dell Studio 1737 laptop and it will come with Vista. I don't really have anything against Vista. It works well enough for what I need it to do. When Windows 7 comes out, I'll consider it, but for my needs it really isn't necessary.

But I bought it now, because I'm traveling half way across the country to visit some family in about a month, and I'll be there for about a week. I'm also presently looking at about a 5 hour layover in the Minneapolis airport, so I need some entertainment. When I get back home, I plan to turn it into a sort of dockable HTPC. I can just plug it into my receiver, and use it to watch TV shows I've recorded and DVDs. Then I can always unplug it and take it with me to places like work. That way I can do things like check on my bank account balances without having to enter in sensitive info into a work computer. Anyone with admin level access can get into my work computer, and it's perfectly legal, but if they touch my personal laptop, that is a crime. Maybe I just want to monitor my desktop at home, and don't want to put in a remote access password into a work system. Or have Firefox saving a bunch of passwords for sites I go to. None of which really requires Windows 7. If it looks worthwhile, maybe I'll buy it, otherwise I'll stick with Vista or just load on Linux.

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Vista thoughts

by cellpro0 May 12, 2009 11:08PM PDT

Hi again,

My personal experience with Vista wasn't so good and I keep hearing bad stuff about it, the more I look in to it the more I'm sure I'm not going to use it. are any of you using vista and are happy with it?

Thought of getting a netbook, but I need a bit more power which the netbook won't be able to provide.

going for Linux might also be an option, but I don't have enough computer knowledge to do so, need to think about it a bit more.

Thanks for your replies,
Cellpro0.

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Yeah.

by FrankQC May 12, 2009 11:13PM PDT

Going for Linux is good if you have computer knowledge haha. Ever since I started using it as my main/primary, I've learned a lot. So far it's pretty stable... But sometimes kernel-upgrades screw up my network card, so I need to revert back to the older version of it. Other than that it's not bad.

From my experienced with Vista and Linux, calling Vista crap is part of the bandwagon. It's not as bad as people say it is. In the past 3-4 years of using Vista I've never had a bluescreen.

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Well

by Jimmy Greystone May 12, 2009 11:45PM PDT

Well, my experience with Windows has always been that it doesn't suffer shoddy hardware well. You put Windows on some low end HP/Compaq/Acer/Gateway/eMachines system, and it's going to be a complete nightmare. Doesn't matter what version, it will be awful regardless. It's like trying to build a skyscraper on the beach. HP/Compaq and Acer/Gatway/eMachines build crap systems, end of story, so the foundation you're trying to run Windows on is shaky at best.

Even running Linux on these systems will be problematic at best most of the time. Though Linux is a bit more graceful in handling crap hardware than Windows, it still will give you problems.

Put Windows on a system with some quality hardware and it will be like a night and day difference in experiences. It'll be smooth experience with little in the way of problems.

So the key is to just not even consider HP/Compaq or Acer/Gateway/eMachines systems you may see at Best Buy or some similar store, no matter how good the deal may seem. Just remember that everyone in the supply chain is aiming to make a profit off of that, so if it's retailing for around $300, how much money could anyone possibly be making off of it? And if they only making pennies in profit, how much effort do you suppose they put into quality control?

I always eliminate HP/Compaq and Acer/Gatway/eMachines systems from consideration right from the start. The ideal is to build it myself, barring that it's down to Apple, Lenovo, or Dell. Toshiba is also in the running if I'm in the market for a laptop. I'm Apple and Dell certified, so that gives them a bit of an edge. I can do all my own warranty repair work, and have special phone numbers and website access to get the parts I need without the hassle of first line tech support.

So, if you just make it a point to buy from a quality vendor, your problems will be quite a bit less.

I also wish Cnet would do something about the Microsoft shills. The whole "Windows Team" and "Windows Outreach" thing is just a bunch of unpaid saps who spend their days hanging out on forums like this, or in a Best Buy, shilling Microsoft products. Check Craigslist's job listings, and you'll usually find ads for this sort of thing every so often. It just gives a very unprofessional feel to these forums when you allow obvious shills to roam freely.

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because they haven't tried windows 7

by ramarc May 11, 2009 1:58AM PDT

win7 is a big improvement over vista. to me win7 is an even bigger improvement than vista sp1 was to the initial release. my laptop was a stuttering/hanging mess before sp1. after sp1 it worked 'okay' but was still a bit sluggish. upgrading (not a fresh install) to the win7 rc, has made it downright peppy. i was considering getting a new one (mine will turn 3 in december), but it's working so much better i think i'll keep it another year or so.

vista sp2 is pending release in june so it may breath new life into vista. but any pc bought after late june will come with a free win7 coupon. so there's no need to wait till december if you could use a laptop now.

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I'd say just go Vista

by RonS [WINDOWS-TEAM] May 11, 2009 2:33AM PDT

Well, to be quite honest, you?re going to be very pressed to find a computer out there with XP on it at a box store (Best Buy, Fry?s, etc.), unless it?s a netbook. There really, in actuality, just aren?t all that many copies of XP out there ? trying to find one to buy that isn?t on a computer is definitely a task.

I think, if you?re looking to buy, you might as well go with Vista (which isn?t bad at all) and then upgrade to Windows 7 when you feel like you?re ready.

Cheers,
Ron
Windows Outreach Team

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What problems have you had with it?

by jeff_windows_team May 11, 2009 2:43AM PDT

There are millions and millions of users who have no problems with Vista. A few of them have even posted in this thread. I'm just curious as to what problems you have had with Vista that make you shy away from it?

People would buy a computer with Vista because it is a great OS. Vista users will likely be able to purchase a discounted upgrade to Windows 7 when it is released if they want to upgrade, or they can stick with Vista. SP2 for Vista is RTM right now so that should be out in the somewhat near future as well.

Jeff
Windows Outreach Team

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Go For Vista

by Ken Deyell May 11, 2009 5:20AM PDT

I could recommend Vista on it's Search feature alone.It is by far the most stable OS I have had.It was preloaded on a new desktop I purchased 19 months ago,and I have had but one BSOD.However,I would suggest staying with IE7,as I upgraded to IE8 by way of Windows update,couple weeks ago which has not been a good experience up until this point.It freezes repeated only to message me "program not responding".

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Vista Fun

by cellpro0 May 13, 2009 5:31PM PDT

The latest problem I had with Vista was installing Microsoft IIS software to work with Visual Developer Express Edition, it was absolute agony, I thought it was just me, then I talked to a few more friends they all had horror stories, they only guy smiling when I asked about this was my friend using XP...

This was about 2 months ago +-, my system used to shut down for no obvious reason, thankfully this went away.

I have an old Acer laptop running XP it's slow but very reliable, no problems never lost any data do to crashes and so.

Am I the only guy here with Vista problems?

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No

by Jimmy Greystone May 13, 2009 11:29PM PDT

No, but since you bought an Acer laptop once, you probably went for some low end POS system again. You lucked out with the Acer, it's that simple. They've long been the little known contender for the toilet bowl of PC makers. Everyone thought it was down to just HP and Compaq, with that being settled by HP taking over Compaq... But Acer was always there, quietly plugging away at building some of the crappiest systems known to man. It's just until recently, they focused most of their time and effort on torturing the Asian markets, not the US and Europe.

As Gateway's fortunes withered away, they too tossed in their lot for the toilet bowl crown, buying eMachines to try and give them a leg up. It didn't quite work, with Acer swallowing them both whole.

I'm not saying IIS isn't a real turd in its own right, but if you buy a cheap POS computer, you really shouldn't have any expectation of it working very well. Quite honestly, probably one of the worst things to ever happen to the computer industry was the sub-$2000 PC. Dell's Wal-Mart style selling strategy squeezed all the profits right out of the market, and now it's biting them in the butt in an amusing bit of poetic justice.

If you get a system with decent hardware in it, you'd be amazed how well Windows runs. Try and put it on some shoddy Acer or HP garbage, and it's like the dyslexic masochist redheaded step child office temp with a bad attitude. Windows does have a tendency to trip and fall much more than other operating systems running on the same crappy hardware, but the truth is they will ALL give you grief.

My general advice, is that if you can't build a system yourself, don't even consider any brand that isn't Apple, Lenovo, or Dell for desktops, and just add Toshiba to the list for laptops. It's still no guarantee of a good system, but your odds are significantly better.

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Everyone's Experience Is Different

by wexmary May 15, 2009 8:00PM PDT

The points about buying low-level PCs, hoping Vista will work on them is quite valid.

When my wife replaced her ME laptop, I (a techie) got her one with 3 GB of RAM, 17" screen (her request), upgraded CPU and video card. Oh yes, it is an HP.

She loves it. She rarely asks me for tech support although she does run some offbeat software.

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Maybe.

by FrankQC May 14, 2009 2:10AM PDT

I've only had 1 blue screen in the 2 years I've been using it. Other than that I've only had like 5 driver problems because they were too outdated (which I'm the one to blame).

It's a pretty stable OS.

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Purchase a netbook.

by FrankQC May 11, 2009 10:02AM PDT

Netbooks come with either XP or Ubuntu Linux (depending on the retailer).

I've even seen some come with Xandros Linux

I like the fact you save money on a netbook with Linux pre-installed... Which makes sense

Frank.

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Netbooks aren't up for the task

by cellpro0 May 13, 2009 6:36PM PDT

Hi Farnk,

Thanks for your replay, but a netbook isn't enough for me I need a bit more juice...

I like the idea and look of netbooks, but they are still a bit weak.

Have a good day,
cellpro0.

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Netbooks will love Win7 actually

by AnthonyNYC May 15, 2009 12:23PM PDT

From what I've been hearing Microsoft learned its lesson by Vista being so bloated that it couldn't run on netbooks so they had to keep windows xp around, which Microsoft does not like at all.

So they instructed their engineers to streamline Windows 7 so it runs on Netbooks and PC hardware without that much power as was required by Vista. This is a good thing.
Also many netbooks come with SSD memory for storage and Win7 is designed to recognize that and behave in ways that is better for them, no defragmenting, no prefetch etc...
So I don't think your headline was correct.

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resource hungry operating systems.

by johnnutz May 27, 2009 2:50AM PDT

It is refreshing to hear that Windows 7 will be less of a resource hog. I never understood the logic behind an operating system that uses as much memory as Vista. I can remember running ME (not a great OS itself) and using Photoshop on a system with 256gb of ram with no real issues. It wasn't the fasted machine but it worked. How can you design an OS that won't run like an absolute dream with 1gb of ram?

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I think I know

by FrankQC May 27, 2009 2:58AM PDT

It's because operating systems take up as much memory as possible. In other words, they load as much memory as it can so when you need it, it's already loaded. It's the same on Linux.

I could boot Linux on 64MB of Memory and it would use 63MB.
I could boot Linux on 256MB of Memory and it would use 255MB.

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That's a misnomer

by Jimmy Greystone May 27, 2009 5:54AM PDT

That's a misnomer, Microsoft actually just borrowed a page or two from Apple's book, and used a few tricks to create the illusion of responsiveness.

Benchmark tests have shown no appreciable performance gain between Vista and Win7. The difference is that Microsoft elevated the process priority of key interface elements, so that the computer APPEARS to be faster, because you get that instant visual feedback. Any two given real world tasks will run neck and neck. Win7 won't make Excel calculate complex formulas any faster, apps load quicker, or anything else. Some things might even be SLOWER, but it will FEEL faster because of a few optical illusions of sorts.

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Netbook a winner here.

by r. proffitt Forum moderator May 15, 2009 11:27PM PDT

I have one and we have XP, Office 2003 and VISUAL STUDIO and more running just fine on it.

It makes a fine demo machine for our software. I imagine some can't use it but we are.
Bob

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vista works much better than xp

by berrisfordjohn May 15, 2009 11:44PM PDT

vista got a lot of bad press for being slow, it works just like XP on a modern decent pc though. so anything you buy that its a netbook or a bottom of the range pc will run vista with no problems.
windows 7 is just vista with a few bells and whistles added on which should have been included with vista.
Vista has a few time savers over XP if you use a pc for work, preview on alt tab (can be added to xp with a power toy though), preview on the taskbar, quick lauch a program by pressing windows key and typing the name of the program you want to start. Windows 7 will have all these and the really useful function of being able to thrown a window at the side of the screen and having it stick there. But wind 7 wont be available until december and then everyone will have to update all their drivers... will be next summer before manufactures catch up. If you can wait that long go for win 7, otherwise actually try windows vista - i mean give it a few weeks - and then decide if you really don't like it. I've had no problems and its much more stable that XP ever was.

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Vista is fine for me.

by rogerpaul May 16, 2009 12:49AM PDT

Before I purchased the computer I am using I had Windows XP. I was happy with it, but began running into issues and decided to purchase a new computer. I went for HP Pavilion Premium. That was two years ago. In the beginning, because it was a new system, Vista, I had a few problems, such as I couldn't stream news videos. But I stuck with it and today I am totaly happy with this system.
I hear and read about others complaints regarding this system. I tell them all the same thing. "Give it a chance and spend more time exploring the system." It has so much to offer with more to come.
Not sure if I will even consider Windows 7.

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Considering win7

by FrankQC May 16, 2009 2:21AM PDT

I'm going to consider it in a year when all the major bugs are gone and it comes pre-installed with a computer.

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Netbookin' it

by RonS [WINDOWS-TEAM] May 27, 2009 4:34AM PDT

If you get a netbook, you could even install Windows 7 RC on it and try it out until next year.

Here's the download link in case you're interested in learning more: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/download.aspx.

Cheers,
Ron
Windows Outreach Team

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Thanks

by FrankQC May 27, 2009 4:39AM PDT

Except I already have the RC and I have no intentions on going back to Windows any time soon (unless I have to because of school.. which is in like 3-4 months).

Thanks the link still =)

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Fair enough

by RonS [WINDOWS-TEAM] May 31, 2009 2:44AM PDT

Are you studying computer science or something?

Cheers,
Ron
Windows Outreach Team

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No

by FrankQC May 31, 2009 2:53AM PDT

I'm studying Information Technologies Management. It's basically a hybrid of IT and Business... How IT helps the business environment in automation and transformations, etc. Information Systems is also part of it.

The program primarily uses Windows Vista Enterprise (no surprise here) and later on during second year we'll be learning about logical databases via SQL. So yea, Windows.

For home use I use something else rather than Windows so I can gain some knowledge on other operating systems should I be hired in the future as a manager for a non-Windows project.

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Very good reasons...

by RonS [WINDOWS-TEAM] Jun 1, 2009 4:21AM PDT

Good luck with that!

I have to say, I've definitely learned from you and enjoyed interacting here on the forums. If that has anything to say about your dedication to your studies - you're set!

Cheers,
Ron
Windows Outreach Team

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Vice Versa to you too

by FrankQC Jun 1, 2009 5:50AM PDT

I've learned a lot about Windows 7 due to your usage of the forums. Thanks =)

Year 1 is done, Year 2 now!

Frank

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Vista or Win 7? Or XP?

by Zouch May 16, 2009 7:05AM PDT

Hi,
if you want to buy your new laptop any time soon, you have a choice - either buy a consumer machine and it will come with Vista - hopefully Home Premium, not Basic. Alternatively, buy a business machine from HP or Lenovo and it will come with Vista Business and, depending on model, downgrade disks to XP Professional. If Vista doesn't work for you "out of the box", if you went the business route, you can use the downgrade disks to take you back to XP. Dell also offer the business option but make a hefty charge for the XP downgrade.

Do check out an article on CNET (sorry I can't find the reference) that described how to remove the bloatware and general junk that comes with Vista and make it perform somewhat closer to XP. That said, though, I guess your new laptop will have more performance and capacity than you need right now (planning ahead), so you can probably sustain the inferior performance of Vista, at least long enough until Win7 is available.

On Win7, I have an older laptop, Samsung X15, circa 2003, running XP Pro SP3. I tried Vista but my configuration just wasn't up to it. But when Win7 Release Candidate was released, I downloaded it and gave it a whirl. I was truly astonished at how good it is! On an unchanged configuration, it is running significantly faster than XP - that was a real surprise. This may be the best operating system Microsoft have released since DOS 6! OK, I can't run Aero but that's just eye candy, so I'm not too worried about that. No, it isn't perfect, there are missing drivers and incompatible software, which will be resolved by general release hopefully. But if you know your way around an OS, you can fix all this.

The Release Candidate is available now until July and will run thru June 2010, though it will start auto-booting after March 2010. But if you do try it, do report any problems back to Microsoft and any other suppliers involved. Microsoft have indicated that Win7 will be on general release "in time for the holiday season" by which I assume they mean American Thanksgiving and "Black Friday". So one might speculate that new machines sold after about July with Vista installed, might come with a Win7 upgrade voucher, as when Vista was released. The difference this time is that the upgrade will be worth it.

Lots of options to think about and that's not even considering Apple and Linux. Good luck, whatever you decide.

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