Windows Vista forum

General discussion

Why are people even running Vista yet?!

by FMCook / August 4, 2006 9:17 AM PDT

Microsoft has identified over 5,000 software and security flaws already! What's even worse is that there isn't an anti-virus program out there that's compatible yet! DON'T SWITCH UNTIL THE PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN FIXED!!!

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Not entirely true...
by John.Wilkinson / August 4, 2006 10:43 AM PDT

There are several antivirus programs currently fully compatible with Windows Vista, including, but not limited to, Avast, AVG, TrendMicro's PC-Cillin, and eTrust EZ Antivirus. (Those four are all free or free-to-try.) Special corporate editions have also been available from Norton and a few others since early in the beta process.

Now, while I cannot comment on exactly how many flaws have been found, it's nothing abnormal. Software in its early stages is expected to have flaws, and the whole purpose of the beta process is to find as many of those flaws as possible before it is released. Those who decide to beta test know the risks going in and are willing to accept them in order to experience the new product and/or to help find bugs in the software. It's just part of the territory.


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Yes there is Antivirus for Vista
by islandporgy / August 6, 2006 12:46 PM PDT
In reply to: Not entirely true...

You are correct, there is a few Antivirus programs for Vista.
I am using AVAST, I just reregistered it and now it is good for one year from the date I reregistered it.
I have know problems with AVAST. I am enjoying Vista, yes it is a Beta verision to be used and tested.

Vista has a lot off good features.

Thank You Very Much:
Wendell H

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I agree with John
by jprkenny / August 10, 2006 10:11 PM PDT
In reply to: Not entirely true...

I agree with John there are several anti virus available for Windows Vista although not limited to but bockgk 1's post isn't all garbage but should understand it is in beta still what do you expect with beta software the more errors the better to be fixed and Microsoft did invite hackers to a conference in Las Vegas to hack Windows Vista and guess what they did the same day! they were invited this has caused Microsoft to review their security in Windows Vista.

And I hope that they do delay Vista for a few more months because I can see that Microsoft is being pushed into releasing Windows Vista on the October 25, 2006 deadline. And all this talk about wait for service pack 1 and all that that just buy or upgrade to Vista then wait for the service pack roll out which would be available for download at Microsoft's website.

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by geneven / August 11, 2006 3:30 AM PDT
In reply to: I agree with John

I started running Vista on the first day it was publicly available. Who cares how many flaws are listed on a piece of paper somewhere? The only flaws that count are those that affect me. I haven't encountered any particular flaws except that I wouldn't bother to run Vista unless you have at least 1 gig of memory.

I use Avast for antivirus, and for the home user it is completely free and works great.

The speech recognition is very impressive, and hopefully will be even better when the final version is released.

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Enhanced Graphics & Productivity
by Integrity / August 4, 2006 4:56 PM PDT

First of all I must agree with John although I can only speak for AVG & Avast FREE versions.

Vista Beta 2 uses IE 7 Beta 2 which will soon be the upgrade for XP. I am currently testing it with XP also.

Many of us know that the main problem with IE is Active X. Many people therefore use alternate browsers like Firefox. I am currently using the latest released version of Firefox, as well as version 2 Beta 1.

Although I run Vista in all Classic representations, it does have enhanced file search capabilities that should assist Office productivity.

The enhanced graphics targets many Gamers which believe better graphics make a better game.


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Beta testing
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / August 4, 2006 8:32 PM PDT

is part of the process.

No amount of testing within the factory, (so to speak), will uncover all the bugs, problems, incompatabilities, etc.

So it's normal for products to be tested out in the real world prior to the final launch, whether it be software, hardware, computers, cars, building material, electrical generators, airplanes........ The list is endless.


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I'm running it for fun.
by Brianstech / August 10, 2006 9:56 PM PDT

It's fun to take a stab at the next flavor.

You mentioned switching. No way. This is beta testing through a dual-boot. Vista's querks prevent me from using it full-time. The biggest problem is my TV tuner card won't install, then the list goes down to smaller things.

IE flaws? I wouldn't know, haven't used it in about 3 years. Firefox installed perfectly with all my security extensions.

I can't speak on antivirus either, I don't use it. But I'm sure most will run on Vista, my Ad-Aware 6, SpywareBlaster, and a few other security freebies work fine.

An odd thing was running RegSeeker. Apparently it is not compatible, I had to shut it down when it climbed up over 6000 bad registry entries on a fresh Vista install.

Testing the newest Windows for free, why not?

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Anti Virus
by jeepster / August 10, 2006 11:02 PM PDT

Just to let you know AVG free is now compatible.

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I figured it would.
by Brianstech / August 10, 2006 11:57 PM PDT
In reply to: Anti Virus

If I ever decided to run an AV, that is the one I would choose. I install it in all the PC's I work on (except mine).

With all the other programs that run well in Vista, I figured AVG would also.

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by stonehkm / September 8, 2006 6:44 PM PDT
In reply to: I figured it would.

AVG as of 09/09/2006 does not work with Vista RC1 x64!

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(NT) Why not help!
by rkm106 / August 11, 2006 12:33 PM PDT

When you are working on something that is fairly huge do you go it alone? Or do you get help? Well running Windows Vista now helps fix the bugs and problems that they are having so it can be released. That is a great reason to run it now. Also there are quite a few antivirus programs out there that run and work well with vista but are also in the Beta testing phase also. When there is something new with a better interface and cool graphics then there will always be a reason to get in on the ground floor. These are just a couple of reasons to run Windows vista now. There are alot of great features in the program that are better than any previous version of windows. It boils down to do you have the time and patienceand fortitude to find compatible programs and dealing with a few minor glitches.
I say to each his own!

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Reply to (NT) Why not help!
by emuelle1 / August 11, 2006 11:37 PM PDT
In reply to: (NT) Why not help!

I agree. I'm running Vista partly for the fun of using the latest and greatest, and partly to help. It's the same reason I'm running the Office 07 Beta. Microsoft was smart to release public betas of these products. You can only test so far in the lab, but by releasing a public beta, people with all kinds of hardware and software configurations will be using the product and you can get a real world look at what works and what doesn't. If they're smart, they'll fix what doesn't work in the final release.

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I agree too but understand frustration
by Randall029 / August 13, 2006 10:41 AM PDT
In reply to: (NT) Why not help!

I'm not using Vista beta but only because I know that it will eventually give me problems that I just don't have the time to deal with right now. From some of the things I've seen posted in other forums a lot of regular XP users are beginning to feel like they are beta testers for every critical update that MS puts out. Many will not use express update because they fear not being able to figure out which update messed up their system. Most problems seem to be solved by a few highly intelligent and dedicated users long before MS puts out their "official" fix. This tends to erode confidence in MS and leads many who are seeking solutions to feel that those actually coming up with the fixes are being used. I'm sure those "used" people don't have that attitude about it or they wouldn't keep doing it. To them I'm sure it is a challenge and something they really enjoy doing. Thank you all.

That being said, I'm thankful for those brave souls who are testing Vista by downloading and using the beta versions now. It will hopefully save us all a lot of problems when the product is finally released and we all have to spend our hard earned money for it. Plus I understand how much fun it can be to "play" with your computer and any new OS or programs. Anything I have learned about my computer has come through trial and error and reading anything I can find when I have a question, from help files to manufacturer and software vendors support sites and from forums and user groups. It takes all my limited brainpower to just be a user and to be able to find and apply the fixes that others have so generously shared. As far as finding problems goes, I'm sure they would find me. I'm just not sure if it would be a genuine problem or self inflicted. If I had the time right now, or even a 2nd computer to dedicate to it, I'd be checking out Vista. If you have a sense of adventure, time and patience, and use good backup practices then please consider the Vista betas - You'll be doing all of us a great service.

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(NT) (NT) Well said.
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / August 13, 2006 8:37 PM PDT
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Beta's are pointless
by bwsewell / August 12, 2006 5:14 AM PDT

I download and sometimes use the betas provided by microsoft. I understand the point of a beta is to allow users to conduct tests and provide feedback to microsoft about their upcoming (sometime not-so-upcoming... aka vista) products. The Office 2007 Beta 2 is ok, however like all other betas provided by microsoft and any company for that matter, it screws up, it has problems, and requires multiple repair installs at sometimes.

With regards to vista. I upgraded my system to Vista beta 2 about 2 months ago when it was released to the public and was impressed with the sleek new interface, however, the software has many many problems as bockgk1 stated. I also found that over time, vista seemed to eat away at my harddrive alongside my external harddrive as well. Something running in the background on vista obviously didn't like my computer very much. It ate away almost a gig of free space on my computer and external drive combined which I have been unable to get back since my reinstall of XP Pro. The vista betas have done nothing more than probably make people not want to buy vista when people actually do have to pay for it. They should have kept vista to themselves and not announce anything until they get the whole thing right.

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needed for third party vendors
by jconner / August 15, 2006 9:51 AM PDT
In reply to: Beta's are pointless

You need to have Beta versions to allow Third Party developers to develop and test their software on next generation O/S's like Vista. You can't wait for the system to fully operational or your competition will beat you to the market.

It also gives companies the chance to see how smooth a transistion it will be when they have to switch over hundreds if not thousands of workstations.

I put it on several laptops with software that was running under W2K and XP just to test functionality, performance and usability. We also have certain legacy hardware issues that may require porting.

There are lots of reasons to try something early so you can avoid pain later. Letting them know what the problems are with your applications makes for a better product and less grief later on.

If you run it you will be amazed at what it supports already. Besides for the cost of the media, its a nice O/S.

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running vista and loving it
by cdaniels75 / August 12, 2006 1:37 PM PDT

Those of us who are running Vista realize it is not perfect... HENCE, the whole BETA thing. i must say though, apart from some driver issues with peripherals i can live without, i have had few problems. My McAfee works fine with Vista...

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Cool Interface
by david5noel / August 19, 2006 7:46 AM PDT

I personally just like the glass feature so I just have a theme to make it look like Windows Vista. I love the black toolbar and the start button.

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vista -orientation wrong
by goegoe / September 9, 2006 1:09 AM PDT

vista is fully wrong in orientation , the windows should devolop for small , simple and high security , rather than more big , more complex and ,more holes . for example , now the windows are very complex, ordinary people have to take at least one year to take control of it , why to install so many functions ? ---so many accounts, so many shares and so many distant access?why to develop such a complex thing ?I think MicroSoft should develope small ,medium and complex versions ----respectively aobut 500mb,1000mb and 2Gb , rather than the sole version for all consumers , if the version is small , about 500mb, I think that the security is improved greatly , because the virus and hackers are nowhere to hide , but microsoft would make out the more complex vista , why ? money , want more money , just more complex, I want to ask which functions are your real demands in the vista? it can let you see the more streamed shows or let you have more security and more fast speed ? no , nothing , just money .so, not running it .

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by John.Wilkinson / September 9, 2006 1:28 AM PDT

1.) Windows XP Professional SP2 is just 579MB, right around your desired 500MB range.

2.) Windows Vista has multiple versions, each one a different size based on what additional features you want. Thus, the 'small' version is Windows Vista Starter, 'medium' version is Vista Home Premium, and 'complex' version is Vista Ultimate.

3.) Remember, size doesn't necessarily relate to the complexity of a program. I can write a program using very basic code and drag out the length of the code or I can 'simplify it' by using more complex coding, drastically shortening it. The 'complex' (shortened) code will produce a much smaller program than the long, drawn-out, but easy to understand code.

4.) Remember, the length and complexity of the code leaves room for more mistakes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is any more unstable or insecure.

5.) People want increased security, but they also want a lot of functionality. Consider how many millions chose Windows XP Media Center over Windows XP Home when buying a computer where they had the choice or built their own. Simplicity just doesn't cut it anymore.


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I can't see the 500mb xp sp2,mine 2GB,remember those patches
by goegoe / September 9, 2006 10:03 PM PDT
In reply to: Well...

perhaps I am mistaken , but mine is over 2GB ,if you are careless for the huge microsoft patches? without those patches , how your PC can work well?
second, maybe you are a expert , but I would say firmly that the present windows is very complex for the ordinary people, usually the experts are careless for the ordinary feelings, they feel that the stuff is very easy to control , but as a ordinary user, I feel extremely upset for the stuff, there are a word in my place : unless your family has a expert , or you would like not to use it , because of not knowing that you play it or it play you , we here people usually take at least one year to use it a little well,taking so much time in the stuff , almost no people feel much pleasant ,the time you handl it is much more than the time you enjoy, in the situation , how to say the present windows is not complex?
third, depending on individual nations , the USA is very rich, you may use the PC for a year , you throw it , then , you can buy a new one, so , all you own is usually is the best , in the situation, you feel the present windows is good for you, but for me or the similar , the stuff is not good absolutely , just one reason ----extremely complex,not to mention those who don't understand English , they usually only see the problems, each day there are a number of problems , you just don't understand , why to make out such complex stuff for all consumers,?why?
finally , in the USA, I often hear that now the growing American users feel upset for the stuff , just because of its complex, why do you just think that the present stuff is just good , especially in the orientation ? not persuing simple, small, easy to use thing is the point ?
please remeber that the present is extemely complex ;no 500mb xp sp2, that patches just are over that number .

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by John.Wilkinson / September 10, 2006 2:21 AM PDT

Sorry about the confusion...When referring to the size of the OS I was going by the amount of data on the CD/DVD (579MB), which in my case is Windows XP Professional SP2. After a clean installation the C:\Windows directory is 1.91GB and grows to just over 2GB with all updates. This is because files from the CD are expanded and some are duplicated for backup/restoration purposes, thus taking up more space.

In regards to usage, it can be a little daunting, especially for those that don't have much experience with computers. At the same time, though, most of the advanced tools/functionality is 'hidden,' giving the user just what Microsoft thinks they need. Vista is designed to make it even easier for the inexperienced, but there's always going to be a learning curve with any operating system because it is, well, an operating system.

When it comes to speed of technology, it does move quite fast. If you buy a computer now it may be considered obsolete in 2 years. Still, the average length of ownership is a little over 3 years with some buying new every 6 months and yet others hanging on to their old Windows 95 systems and looking to squeeze every last cycle out of it.

I'm not sure where you live or what your first language is (I take it it's not English), but Windows is available in dozens of languages, so you can get it in Spanish, Italian, German, French, Hindi, etc. That should make it easier on those trying to decipher error messages and help articles when they're not native speakers.

I think the problem is that there are basically four types of users:
* Those who are older or simply haven't been around computers much and are inexperienced.
* Those who work on computers for their profession and know the system inside out.
* The average home user, who can use the computer but doesn't have experience with advanced features or troubleshooting.
* The kids that are growing up today using computers from the time they're old enough to hold a mouse.

With Windows 98/98 everyone used the same OS. In 2000 ME was designed for the home user while 2000 Professional was for the business user. That was basically the first step in customizing the OS for the intended user. Windows XP continued along the same lines (Home and Professional), but added Media Center edition, Tablet PC edition, etc. Vista should make even more of a differentiation:
* Home Basic is for the inexperienced who just want to check their e-mail.
* Home Premium is for the average user, giving you standard functionality and multimedia options.
* Business is for the more experienced user who's concern is advanced productivity, not multimedia.
* Ultimate is for the advanced user/gamer who not only works on computers but also wants to have some fun with them too.

In short, we are gradually going more towards versions of Windows designed for individually-targeted audiences. While the experience can only be tailored so much and there will always be a learning curve, it should help make Windows users more comfortable and therefore more productive.


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by In-Correct / September 9, 2006 9:08 AM PDT

I didn't even know that it was out yet!! I was going to want to switch to it as soon as it came out, but I guess I will wait until later...

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(NT) (NT) It's still in beta's out in January.
by John.Wilkinson / September 9, 2006 9:38 AM PDT
In reply to: Thanks:
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Why Vista....
by gc_robb / September 10, 2006 3:59 AM PDT

Most of the people that are running Vista right now are doing so in an effort to make sure that when it is released to the general public it will be ready.

You are right that there are a LOT of flaws yet... this software is beta! That's why it's being tested in as many situations and scenarios as possible. If anyone is running this software expecting it to be perfect they need to look up the definition of beta :o)

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