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General discussion

Who makes the best desktops?

Apr 13, 2005 6:29AM PDT

Alright, guys...let's get this over with, "once and"...well, "for a while"...at least! Silly

In your opinion, pound for pound, apples to apples, and all that--who makes the best desktops in terms of performance, price, reliability, and support?

You can stump for any company which you believe fits the bill--yes, even tiny little makers most of us have probably never heard of before.

-JDM Wink

(*No laptops, please! I'm going to start a separate thread for that in the Notebooks Forum.)

Discussion is locked

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Apple makes the best desktops hands-down.
Apr 21, 2005 9:43PM PDT

No doubt about it, Apple clearly outclasses all others in terms of design, performance, quality of build and customer support. Sure, it costs more to own and operate a Mac, but the overall experience is so much more seamless and straight-forward that you soon realize just how archaic all those PCs are anyway. Apple computers truly make you see how strange it is that we live in a world dominated by Windows when there is something so obviously better available.

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Best Desktops
Apr 21, 2005 9:44PM PDT

Dell is the one that makes the best overall desktop with a combnation of performance, price reliability and great support that is not needed very often. I support about 125 pcs and the Dells give me less trouble than any of the others.

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Dell, for about 5 years
Apr 21, 2005 10:32PM PDT

I support 174 computers and two networks for two schools with about 400 users. I have a Mac OS X network with imac, emac, HP and Dell workstations. I also have a Windows 2003 Server network with Dell, HP, Gateway and emachine clients. Hands down, (based on my tech support request history for 5 years) I can say the Dell GX series desktops give me the least amount of problems. HP comes next, then Apple, emachines, and Gateway. In addition, I bought 30 REFURBISHED Dell GX110s and have had excellent luck with them. They do everything we need and have very few issues (With Windows XP PRO, that is... win 98 was a different matter) As a side, if anyone cares, the Windows 2003 network has had ONE issue in 1 1/2 years (due to power failure, rebooting solved problem) while the Mac OS X Server has had nothing BUT issues. Working for a school, I have free tech support from Apple, and I can say they are as stumped over the frequent issues I've experienced as I am.

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Dell
Apr 21, 2005 11:24PM PDT

I have built six computers for myself in the past and I must admit that I would not build another one. I can buy a Dell with the same good components for much less money due to their constant sale prices and discounts. When I build the computer myself and a hard drive, or a powersupply, a software issue, or a memory problem arrises I have to trouble shoot the system myself and have to deal with the manufacturer for warrantee support. I got really tired of doing this and also living with the down time for my computer. From now on I am buying from Dell who handles all these problems for me with just a phone call. Sure it is "fun" to build a computer but it just is not worth the hastle when parts fail (especially Western Digital hard drives) and compatibility problems arrise. I used to laugh at my friends who bought from Dell but they were the smart ones in the final analysis.

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Dell
Apr 22, 2005 4:58AM PDT

I noticed that one of the posts here in this forum mentions the fact that Dell is a good cholce because when there are problems with the opperating system Dell will help solve this kind of problem too. I have to agree with this statement. This is so true. So many average computer users have problems with having to reinstall the operating system when it get corrupted that it is great to be able to call Dell and have them walk you through this process. For the average user, problems with their computers, even simple problems, can be a time for panic. If you build a computer yourself there is NO ONE to turn to. You are on your own. It is sure nice to be able to call your computer vendor and ask them to help bail you out. The geek people who know a lot about computers mock companies like Dell, but for the average Joe, Dell is the only way to go.

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Dell hasn't done this consistently...
Apr 23, 2005 5:08AM PDT

for the average consumer. Please state all the facts!

(Otherwise, people might think you work for Dell.)

Wink JDM

(*If you have any doubts about this, please check other postings on CNET and the web.)

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As for Dell...
Apr 22, 2005 12:12AM PDT

Many of us no longer believe that it's a good company. Part of the problem is that, while Dell is still interested in going after (and taking good care of) "large customers", it is not really interested in "the unprofitable consumer market"...which means "us". They are even starting to take liberties with their "smaller" business clients.

http://chipchick.blogs.com/chip_chick/2005/03/dells_lawsuit_a.html

Caveat Emptor!

-JDM

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Apple...
Apr 22, 2005 12:29AM PDT

definitely has the best hardware...except for what has been called "the world's worst mouse".

-JDM

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Best desktop comptuer
Apr 22, 2005 1:08AM PDT

Dell no question!

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??? DELL...You Must Be Kidding???
Apr 29, 2005 12:08PM PDT

Actually there are a few worse. But I must say, I'd have to disagree. Have you ever tried to upgrade a base model? Most times you don't even get what you pay for.

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Apple
Apr 22, 2005 3:39AM PDT

According to consumer report

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Emachines
Apr 22, 2005 5:56AM PDT

So, Emachines still comes out on top with the most votes for "best overall"...quality, price, service, etc.

Furthermore, there's no one in here who's been able to say anything really bad about them...which, for CNET at least, is "Most unusual". (Grabbing ears, and looking like a Vulcan...) Silly

-JDM

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Dell Probably Most Consistent
Apr 22, 2005 7:35AM PDT

I agree with everything said so far about the pros and cons of Dell, especially the bad news about proprietary parts. What stands out with them - and it shows in their market share - is their consistency and service. Of the name brand machines that have been out there for a decade or more, Dell's lows have been higher than anyone else's and their customer service, although difficult to understand these days from "Mike" in Bangalore, is excellent once the problem is identified. In general, if you buy a PC as an appliance and you just want it to run and be fixed quickly when it doesn't, Dell is an excellent choice - and I've never owned one, but I've purchased about fifteen for our workplace and they've been pretty dependable.

With other brands, variation in build quality and reliability is astounding. My first computer was a Micron when they were getting rave reviews for performance and reliability. I had a Pentium 66 that baked itself to death in 18 months, but three coworkers who bought Microns on my advice loved them. Then my wife, who couldn't tell a CD tray from a cupholder, said, "CompUSA has IBM's on sale. They're supposed to be good. Why not get one of them?" I did and it ran extremely well through two heavy teenage users. The IBM was replaced by a Compaq returned to Sears after Christmas. At that time Compaq had dreadful ratings, but it's had 4.5 bulletproof, easily- and often-upgraded years. So has a second Compaq my son bought at a Compaq auction - and great support. My latest, an HP MCE, has run great after I ditched the OEM mouse and went with a USB optical.

My son and I built a PC from leftover parts from the Micron and IT ran well. Yet he has had nothing but trouble with a supposedly gold standard IBM ThinkPad he bought for college (pre-Lenovo).

I would strongly consider eMachines for the reasons discussed in this forum plus one more - service and support. Especially as a second machine, when downtime is slightly less critical. I bought three eMachine refurbs for our business from the reseller that everyone loves to bust on. One has been flawless and the other two needed to have some parts replaced. There were three incidents and I called three times during normal business hours. My hold times were 15, 28, and 15 SECONDS, each rep spoke American, and they listened to my diagnosis instead of working from The Universal Diagnostic Checklist.

In general, the more customized the machine, the more easily it can be modified. The more store bought it is, the better the service, but the less room for expansion and tinkering you'll have.

After all of this, my daughter is going off to college in September. Based on all of our experiences, she'll be toting an Apple iBook.

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Thank you for your comments!
Apr 22, 2005 8:11AM PDT

Dell definitely takes better care of it's "larger" business customers (i.e. those who purchase several units in one shot) than it does of individual consumers. According to company officials, we are just part of "the unprofitable consumer market"...so I guess that's only to be expected. In my experience, large customers also seem to get much better hardware from Dell. (I have never seen a DOA unit or any kind of hardware failure at the computer lab of my university...and they buy Dell.)

Your comments on the other makers are interesting and helpful--and they confirm that both Emachines and Apple deserve their "number one" ratings for "best desktop" and "best laptop".

Sincerely,

JD MacDonald

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I don't understand your results...
Apr 22, 2005 8:23AM PDT

You typed:
So, Emachines still comes out on top with the most votes for "best overall"...quality, price, service, etc.

I am not going to make a statement about Dell, eMachines or any other machine being the best because I do not think I have experience or knowledge to make such a statement. I do however will post seperately my single experience with Dell recently, which in my opinion has been pretty good.

BUT what I do want to do is ask you HOW you derived at your above quote. How does the emachine get the most votes? I counted all the positive and negative responses in the chain within this "survey" and they are as total:

emachine: 2 net Positive (including one from you)
Apple: 4 net positives
HP, Gateway and Monarch: 2 total each

DELL - 8 total net positives.

I see post after post talking about how Dell is pretty good. How do you take this chain of posts, add them up, and get a conclusion that "Emachines still comes out on top with the most votes..."

I am not trying to be a jerk or anything (even though I bet it is coming off that way). I am just trying to understand if your statements are real or not, and based on reading all the comments in this topic I don't see it.

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Thanks for that question!
Apr 22, 2005 8:58AM PDT

I've also been looking at other posts in CNET Forums and on the web in general, not just those in here. Overall, Emachines has come out on top. In fact, I've had trouble finding any bad comments about them.

Dell, on the other hand, has a lot of bad press--and I know from personal experience (i.e. what they've done to my friends, and to people I know) that they can be really bad for individual consumers. With Dell, things tend to be "hit" or "miss". Given the current lawsuit against them in California, I've chosen not to list them here.

If you've read all the postings here, you'll also notice that I've left the rankings pretty much open to debate. They're not meant to be all that serious anyway, since what I'm looking for is only a "general consensus". (A proper ranking would require much more stringent methodology.) Just think of this as a kind of "people's choice by-the-seat-of-the-pants award".

Anyone who disputes the rankings is free to air their views. For now, Emachines is number one...and no one has provided any reasons as to why it shouldn't be. Second and third place still seem to be up for grabs.

BTW, I'd like to thank you for your question! We need more people in here who are willing to "discuss" things...not jump up and down and yell, "Dell!" or "Apple!" Wink

Sincerely,

JD MacDonald

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Well, here ya go
Apr 23, 2005 9:42AM PDT

Emachines suck! They are intergrated crap that is defunct in one year and not upgradable. I have seen these things in action, after they are bought the customer finds that the emachine not only lags behind the software that is developed but usually cannot run most recent or older software, at purchasing! If you buy one you will by one again and again and agian and etc. until you have spent three times the money I did on my Dell workstation that is 4 years old and still upgradable.

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Thanks!
Apr 24, 2005 6:44AM PDT

I don't know if a "workstation" is fair competition for what we're looking at here. (One guy mentioned an $11,000 machine.) Maybe a new thread for "Who makes the best workstations?" would be in order.

Thank you for your comments on Emachines. (It's always best to have "all" the information.) Were the machines yours...or did they belong to someone you know? Or is this what you've been hearing from people around you? And how long ago was this? I'm trying to figure out 1) if this is based on first-hand experience, and 2) if it's a recent issue. What you're saying seems to contradict the info we have so far...but, I will check again, so please give me as much information as you can.

Wink JDM

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Yes $11,000, it was me, haha
Apr 25, 2005 8:49AM PDT

E-machines were purchased by corporate buyers representing Walmart. several people got took on theses already outdated computers.
It was 2 years ago almost, just before Christmas. Also the year before that. They were a bad buy that E-machine unloaded on the "Economy Giant".
Two of my friends got took on the deal. I convinced one to take it back and he did get his money back. They would n't take back the other, so I heard it had been too long or something. I saw My buddies E-machine up close: this thing was all integrated to the motherboard, not upgradable at all and couldn't even effectively run software, that was sitting on a shelf 20 feet away from where they were being sold! The price was way too high at $649.95/32mb integrated video max/128 Sdram with only two slots. some of the games at the time suggested a minimum of 32mb/128ram, but all games suggested 64mb/256ram or more! The E-machines were already old news and lagging behind.

As for the $11,000.00 Silicon Graphics Tezro?; It is the overall best computer. Afterall; if you are ever lifeflighted to a trauma center and Your life is in danger, that will be the computer that scans you, for internal damage.

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Am I supposed to list...
Apr 23, 2005 5:33AM PDT

all the "anti-Dell" stuff here, John? Silly And would you even look at it if I did? Silly

For this forum, I disqualified Dell because of the ongoing lawsuit:

http://chipchick.blogs.com/chip_chick/2005/03/dells_lawsuit_a.html

Excuse me for not including a company that's being sued for "extremely questionable" business practices!

Wink JDM

(*BTW, for anyone who doesn't know--John Robie, is a "Dell fanatic". He has seen the info on the lawsuit many times...and has continued to act as if it doesn't exist. Believe me--if there were anything he could say against it, he would! But he can't, so he continually resorts to personal attacks instead.)

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In this survey there is little "anti-Dell" to your dismay...
Apr 23, 2005 5:53AM PDT

You are the personal attacker and again attacking as I am definately not a "Dell fantic" or I would own a Dell I do not say anything to a person for being critical of Dell or any company. You, however, come into this CNet forum just a little over a month ago EXTREMELY critical of Dell in all your post for at least the 1st two days and have never let up. IMO you act like a disgrundled ex-employee of Dell.

So, you are the dictator of this thread...typical of you to use your EXTREME bias to disqualify Dell

BTW, when are you going to furnish the Link to this crud:

http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-7586-0.html?forumID=68&threadID=98945&messageID=1138792

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I know you'd only...
Apr 23, 2005 6:19AM PDT

ignore any references I gave you, so I won't bother. (I'm enjoying the fact that you can't find them on your own.)

Hints: There are a lot of references...not just one. And you should look for quotes from Michael Dell, and senior employees. (The horse's mouth is always best.)

However, it does seem as if the company is "backing off" from a lot of the statements it has made. (I would assume that the stockholders objected "vociferously".) As I suspected, they don't seem able to withdraw from any aspect of the PC market. (It was a foolish idea to begin with.) I also expect them to "clarify the intent" of their original statements...and claim to have been "misquoted". (Which you will, no doubt, immediately seize on as "Gospel".)

Oh, and by the way...why don't you comment on the lawsuit? You have an opinion on everything else, John.

-JDM

(*I know who really has a "vendetta"...and I'm sure that anyone else here can see it!) Silly

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Oh, the lawsuit....
Apr 23, 2005 6:35AM PDT

and you want my comment. Well, I think if an injustice is felt by someone, and IMO it looks that way...sure sue and get all the $$ you can after giving 60+% to the lawyer(s). May as well make it a class action suit for big $$.

BTW, that finger in the chili hoax may get a prison sentence. Leno said last night that she may find another unexpected finger if going to prison. Happy

You still have not given a link to your post that I have been asking for. Now please tell me you didn't post that as a put down of Dell without any link to back you up.

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Is it me or?
Apr 23, 2005 7:30AM PDT

"Bob Proffitt is much more than...

just another "Mac Lover". His opinions are all well thought out, and based on a depth of knowledge you or I would be lucky to have. If he says that Apple makes better computers (pound-for-pound), you have to respect his opinion."
culture_of_one's previous post in this discussion

You respect Bob for his difference in opinion yet you don't for John, why is that? Do you have some deep bitter resentment for him? It must be something as you continue to contradict him for his views.

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On several occasions...
Apr 23, 2005 7:45AM PDT

I've told him that we should "agree to disagree"...he isn't willing to do that.

Thank you for your comment by the way. I could tell the world what I really think about John Robie's comments--but you've reminded me that this is an "open forum for the exchange of information." From now on, I think I'd just better DNR to anything that John Robie has to say.

-JDM

(*Why don't you tell him to lay off me? He's free to post his opinions as he sees them--but I take exception to being called a liar. He seems to be the one with a "vendetta".)

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You've...
Apr 23, 2005 7:37AM PDT

implied that I'm a liar a couple of times now, John. You've also made claims that I have a vendetta against Dell, that I'm a disgruntled former employee and/or work for a competitor of Dell's. Keep it up--if you "really" want to know about lawsuits.

The information I provided was based on a variety of sources. You can start by looking up interviews with Dell insiders on CNET. Then you can check articles in the WSJ, NY Times, and several other major media outlets...MSNBC, etc...all available online. When you're done with that, you can check out some of the info in the company's annual report.

-JDM

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Who's threatening who?
Apr 23, 2005 7:55AM PDT

"You've also made claims that I have a vendetta against Dell, that I'm a disgruntled former employee and/or work for a competitor of Dell's. Keep it up--if you "really" want to know about lawsuits."


I agree with John. Your life goal is to condemn all people and things associated with Dell and I'm sure many other people agree. This argument has grown beyond it's boundries.

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Yes...
Apr 23, 2005 8:15AM PDT

you are right. There is "no point" in arguing with you guys.

-JDM

(*Don't forget to read my posts on how "horribly" Dell treats it's business clients...ever true to my "vendetta"...and my response to Chip Leader's posting on the new Dell he just got. That's another thread, by the way.)

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Implied....
Apr 23, 2005 8:28AM PDT

Huh...the information you provided.....you put this as a statement and not indicated as an opinion:

"Of course you know...
that Dell is planning to get out of the "unprofitable PC business", and concentrate on selling wide-screen TVs, etc. Their plan is to withdraw from the "unprofitable consumer market" first, and then follow up by exiting the business PC market later on. (It's uncertain whether they will continue to sell printers, but they will continue to sell servers.)"

I asked, "How about sharing the link (URL) of your news?"

That would indeed be news and would be on the different computer news services that I get. If my questions was calling you a liar, then so be it.