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General discussion

Who else has to deal with those on "fixed income"?

Mar 1, 2015 12:01AM PST

I don't know how many here deal directly with people but if you do, odds are you have heard "I am on a fixed income" from quite a few people. My experience has been these are the people who will end up causing you lots of problems and grief if you try to work with them. When they cannot pay, you alter the terms in THEIR favor, then when they still can't pay and you have had enough and don't give them their equipment back, they become threatening. I have to frequently remind them that they signed a form agreeing to terms that I altered in their favor and that I don't want to hear it. I could seriously write a book about some of the things these types of people have said and done.

For example, I have people bring me broken equipment to be diagnosed. When I call them with a quote, the say "There was nothing wrong with it when I brought it to you." I now have a line on the form everyone signs that states "By providing a device for service, I acknowledge that there is a problem or issue that needs to be repaired or upgraded." This should be self-explanatory. You wouldn't bring your car in to a mechanic if there was nothing wrong with it.

My opinion is that pretty much all of us with the exception of Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are on a fixed income. To me this comment identifies a person as a freeloader who wants everything for nothing and is going to be a problem so it is best not to try and make exceptions for them. My experience has been that if you give these people a foot of rope, they will try and hang you with it. I have had threats several times and had to let one person know that breaking into my home would be the last mistake they ever made.

I now charge $35 upfront which has greatly reduced but not eliminated my problems.

Discussion is locked

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It's going to get worse.
Mar 1, 2015 12:16AM PST

There are a lot of nice folk out there but I'm seeing more "entitled" now and on the horizon. And yes, we had more than a few that would come in with a failing laptop battery that we would show a new battery works and next thing you know they are claiming we are trying to stick them with a bum battery and that the new battery is theirs.

Guess what? The shops no longer will let anyone try out a laptop battery anymore. The few ruined it for the rest.
Bob

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Yep!
Mar 1, 2015 12:38AM PST

The few bad ones I deal with have ruined it for a lot of the others who are probably fine.

The latest ones I have been dealing with will call me like 2 years after having work done and claim that this was the first time they fired up the computer and it is now having problems. I think the record on this was 6 years. Really? The latest one was a window of 5-6 months but they started getting verbally abusive so I had to tell them to get lost. I don't see anyone not turning on their equipment within a few days of getting it back. He first called me and was all mad that his sound wasn't working. I had to threaten to hang up on him as he wouldn't listen and I figured it would be simple. Finally after like 15 minutes of this, he listened. 20 seconds later he had the audio cable plugged into the correct port and the sound was working. Then the next day I had a message that the power supply had failed and that he took it somewhere else but wondered if I wanted to warranty the one I had put in there as he had it. I didn't even return the call. This just reeked of fishy with him taking it somewhere else first plus the fact he claims it was just now turned on for only a couple days.

Yes, I also agree that the entitlement mentality is going to get worse. I would go into my reasons why but see that politics and religion are banned from discussion here so won't go into my reasons. I also agree that me having to tighten up my rules is going to end up hurting people who are not freeloaders.

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In shop...
Mar 1, 2015 9:10AM PST

I used to work at a electronics service shop that besides PCs, fixed various consumer electronics goods, like TV or radios. Too often once the quote of repairs were done, they didn't return to p/u the item or worse claim we made it worse and thus reimburse them. Our boss got wise and upfront, a immediate $10 deposit if for anything to dispose of the item but some funds if not p/u'ed. -OR- readily explained the repair process with a "in plain view explanation board" of that and associated costs. Shelf time is allocated only 30 days after the quote and disposed. There used to be alot of inkjet printers when they still were expensive sit, many in working condition for p/u, remained beyond the time limit. Our paperwork clearly explains that later in new forms and also a more blank area for the tech to fill-in any repairs, etc.. I realize some consumers are on limited funds and out boss readily explains were a "for profit" outfit already having sunk time and effort to explain their problem of repair. If they want to remain "active status" add another $10 to extend the shelf time for 30 days, done only once. After that its pay or dispose time after expired time. I hate to hear some of the front desk conversations. Wink -----Willy Happy

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I didn't have many 'fixed income' customers
Mar 1, 2015 9:28AM PST

(I, myself, am one of those), but as most of you are aware of, I used to do pc builds and repairs from my home. If it was a new build, I priced it fairly on all of the parts and pieces and software the customer wanted.....if it was a repair, I charged only an additional $15 to troubleshoot before repairs were recommended and always got that up-front. Once the repair/part replacement was approved, I would do the work for cost of the parts plus $50 for my 'bench-charge' labor....I never made anything extra on the cost of the part itself, including shipping if it had to be purchased because it wasn't already in my own inventory.

Those who refused to pay, for whatever reason, had 60 days to come up with the money or the pc belonged to me, even if only a small repair/replacement part was installed by me.....and I got this also in writing ahead of time. Whatever wasn't paid for and picked up by the end of those 60 days got sold on Ebay......for the new computers I built, I got all of my money plus shipping back....for the used computers, I always made a profit since I had such a small investment in it to start with.

Problem solved......Those who didn't pay never came back....but I always had plenty of repeat customers or new ones from word of mouth from those who were satisfied with my work.

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Sound like what happens with some of these storage rentals
Mar 1, 2015 5:45PM PST

Non-payment can be cause to consider them as abandoned and the contents sold. Many get to watch these sheds sold at auction and opened on television.

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My ex used to fix cars
Mar 2, 2015 9:51AM PST

Sometimes the people didn't want to pay for the repairs and he had the customer to just sign over the car. We got a few cars like that and sold others.

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Getting some money upfront and having a signed form is key
Mar 1, 2015 10:29AM PST

Getting some money up front is a big help as this tends to run off those with no intention of paying. Also, I will only keep items 14 days without any type of communication, then start a $10/week storage fee if the people do want it. They also need to pay at least $35/week so this does end up getting paid off eventually. I have only had 1 or 2 come back after the 14 day window.

I used to have a storage locker for all the ones people didn't come and pick up immediately. BIG mistake and I learned that most were never going to get picked up. I did charge a couple people for one month's rent on the storage locker when I had to get them and that pissed them off. I now only keep them for 14 days after the time of diagnostics or repair, whichever comes later, and then they are mine to do with what I want. Many end up going to scrap while some get repaired and resold.

I always hate the cheap computers that come in like the Wal-Mart and Black Friday specials. The quality and performance is lousy to put it nicely. The other issue is the owners. The owners of this low-end units are usually also pretty low quality so we don't know if the computer or the owner is worse. Also, these are the ones full of sticky soda, cigarette smoke, and insects. Sometimes a cheap unit comes in for work in pristine condition and I am always shocked as it is very rare to see one that has actually been cared for.

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when walmart started selling computers
Mar 1, 2015 9:24PM PST

is when the quality of discourse across the internet became greatly degraded. It was like "there goes the neighborhood!"

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RE: the quality of discourse
Mar 1, 2015 10:49PM PST

You mean "freedom of speech"?

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I LOVE THAT ONE!!!
Mar 2, 2015 12:49AM PST

Yes, as I said, the customers who bought the Wal-Mart ones are also a little less than desirable.

A comment I love is "It's a good computer. It came from Wal-Mart." My comment is that "It is NOT a good computer since it came from Wal-Mart." Something else I have noticed as of late are some desktop PCs from Wal-Mart that have a latop power cord and the motherboard is like the size of a deck of cards or a little bigger. Everything is integrated and there are 2x power leads coming off the motherboard to power the optical drive and hard drive. These are pretty much non-upgradeable since they only have a 60 or 90 watt PSU and have no slots for cards of any kind. The thing that really surprises me is that the case is pretty large but there is barely anything inside. I wonder if Wal-Mart customers lack the sophistication to understand that "Size doesn't matter" when it comes to the size of their computer case. Most people brag about having the smallest and thinnest phone but these things big.

I have come across some storage sheds full of old computers myself. I only am willing to pay for what I see as decent and then offer to haul off all the junk with it for free and then sell it for scrap.

I will NEVER rent a shed again to store unclaimed computers. The people never show and I am left with the bill.

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Occasionally, in the help forums, you'll see someone ask
Mar 2, 2015 2:29AM PST

about getting into the business of making custom PCs and doing repairs for the small consumer market. The usual advice seems to be to look into some other career if they wanted to have a meal once in a while. I've seen many come and go in my area but those that survive seem to have captured work from schools and small businesses. My wife is the technology coordinator in such a school and I'm her primary volunteer. There's no such thing as IT in such places so it's important that we deal with quality establishments. We have used a custom shop for about 15 years that's still in business for one reason or another. They'll build for the individual but I doubt they make much money that way. Their PCs can't compete with Walmart of the Geek Squad boys for initial price but that cheap money up front can come with a much higher cost later. I build my own and have gotten to know the good from the garbage. But one thing people who want technology need to understand is that buying a PC isn't like buying a refrigerator where you expect it to give at least 10 years of service. Once it's past 3 years or so, a PC with a failed MB may as well be scrapped. You can have it fixed but the parts and labor (if you're paying for it) will just about get a new PC.

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Yep!
Mar 2, 2015 3:06AM PST

Buying a PC is like buying a toaster or coffee pot. If anything goes wrong after 3 years, you just trash it and get another. So many of the cheaper units do end up costing more in the long run. This is for several reasons. One, they are not made to last so you buy a new one as soon as the old one is paid off. It seems they have the design life of these down well. Also, you sometimes end up replacing the entire motherboard as many of these cheap ones are mostly integrated with the CPU, RAM, and the like. That being said, some of the more expensive ones are going that way as having BGA components ups the speed. I had an Acer cheapo in that needed a new MB and everything was integral so just the part cost $300. The unit probably didn't cost that new.

I agree that dealing with businesses is better. The people there seem to be more reasonable and will not yell at you if they get back and something doesn't work because they hooked it up wrong. I had this a few days ago and they guy wouldn't even listen to me until I threatened to hang up on him. He finally listened and his sound was fixed very quickly!

I had a guy not all that long ago wanting to sell me one of his computers for parts that had been struck by lighting. I wasn't too interested but thought it might be something worth considering if it was pretty current and the price was right. IT was something like a 20 year old computer but he had paid $3000 new so thought $1200 was a fair price. I told him I had no interest but would recycle it for free. He said it was $1200 worth of stuff so I said I wasn't interested and went on my way.

Some of the used computers I put together to resell are from parts of common models. For example, I had a Toshiba that had the screen smashed but everything else was OK. Then I had another where someone had spilled coffee down through the motherboard. I used the casing and bezels from that one as they were cleaner as well as the screen and transplanted the motherboard from the other one to make one complete unit. I was also able to upgrade the CPU to an i5 while it was apart.

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This just in. How tech support sells the new PC.
Mar 2, 2015 3:09AM PST
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Like that comic
Mar 2, 2015 3:27AM PST

Some of the updates mess with Windows activation. Saw a lot of black screens after Windows 8.1 came out and people upgraded from Windows 8. It is a big problem if you don't know how to fix it.

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Windows activation issues
Mar 2, 2015 3:47AM PST

Some of the school units I mentioned have been getting those random "Windows not genuine" errors since the last round or two of updates. How odd since the school bought a VL version through a source that specializes in government and educational institutions. The errors go away with a reboot. It sounds like this is a known issue since December. I'm thinking that MS ending support by not pushing down further updates might be more of a blessing than it is to be feared.

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I'm not surprised
Mar 2, 2015 4:54AM PST

the original Vista upgrade could convert to a full version quite easily. Either install it on top of itself immediately after the first installation, or install it as a 30 day test version without entering the product key, and when the 30 day trial period was over, enter the product key and it became full version. Now that one really surprised me. I never bothered to see if Windows 7 had the same "glitch" in it's upgrade versions.

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Well...this wasn't an upgrade
Mar 2, 2015 5:31AM PST

It was what's called a MAK VL and is available for smaller organizations having...I think...25 PCs or fewer. I installed these myself but only on one PC that had identical hardware to rest in the lab. I also installed a VL version of MS Office and several VL versions of educational software. All of the lab PCs were cloned from the original image that had the same users defined. All that was needed was to change the name of each PC to keep them from squabbling on the network. Unlike the VL disk we used with XP, the Windows 7 installations did require activation. All PCs did so just fine more than two years ago. We were well within the activation limit so I can't imagine what's been causing this glitch. The product ID code was sent in an email message to my wife. I suppose someone could have found or intercepted it and just recently attempted to use it. These PCs have had other issues after MS updates and the worst of them seem to come from Office 2013 patches. We mark the second Tuesday of each month with as a day of possible terror. Happy

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VL issues?
Mar 2, 2015 5:33AM PST

As the VL keys leak Microsoft will invalidate them and we have to call in for a new VL Key. Annoying but it's the current system.
Bob

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It's possible that I caused it
Mar 2, 2015 8:50AM PST

I'd updated the BIOS on all machines about 2 weeks earlier. I'd not normally do that but this update offered an upgrade path to allow for Windows 8 and maybe beyond...or so said the Intel support site. These PCs were among the last offered with Windows 7 Pro and are new enough to consider Win 10 when available. I've had BIOS updates cause XP to complain about new hardware but this didn't happen with these units. I've also not seen Windows VL products to be quick to jump when something has changed but I can't overlook the possibility of a delayed reaction to the update. This may be all for naught as the school system seems to be leaning more toward Apple. There's no sense in trying to be forward thinking when today is tomorrow's yesterday.

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I don't know what causes these problems.
Mar 2, 2015 7:15AM PST

They always seem to crop up after updates, especially the update to 8.1 from 8.

If you reload the OS, load all the updates, then update to 8.1, things seem to go OK. Maybe it is office products or something causing the issue as my research indicates the root problem is activation. These are CONSUMER systems bought out of the box from OEMs, not VL customers.

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Before PCs
Mar 2, 2015 3:32AM PST

Being a customer/field engineer for various outfits got me through the 80-90's before PC became the appliance it is now. Being the goto support and visiting clients to resolve their problems was a selling point plus in order to renew support contracts and/or new sales. We held their hands and always had the friendly face to go with it. Of course, that's all lost now and sometimes I wonder how anything gets fixed even if in-house IT, even they can be surely. In the golden days even the sale people brought us lunch or invited us to some office or event party, geeezz you don't have that any more, even spam in the can and crackers. Wink good to go -----Willy Happy

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I do offer onsite services
Mar 2, 2015 7:24AM PST

Of course hardly anyone wants to pay. Business owners who need it up and fixed RIGHT NOW are the only ones who are willing and grateful to pay anymore. Otherwise people want it for nothing and are mad when I mention service fees.

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LOL
Mar 2, 2015 7:28AM PST

always encourage them to fix it themselves first. That way they will be more than willing to pay after they've thoroughly screwed it up.

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Those are never repairable
Mar 2, 2015 11:01AM PST

The ones people try to fix themselves are usually ruined. Connectors ripped off the motherboard and such.

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The shop I'd mentioned had a sign citing repair costs
Mar 2, 2015 5:30PM PST

Two of the lines said something like this:

Bench fee labor rate $60 per hour
If you help, $120 per hour

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That is also great.
Mar 2, 2015 10:20PM PST

Sometimes people get in the way and just cause more problems. I tell them pretty much that they brought it to me for a reason so let me take it from there.

I know others who repair mowers and such. They say that people sometimes bring in a destroyed chainsaw in a box just like I see with computers. Someone who had no idea tried to do it themselves.

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(NT) I do- every time I look in a mirror. :-)
Mar 2, 2015 3:43AM PST
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(NT) I hope you treat yourself with respect and don't pre-judge.
Mar 2, 2015 4:00AM PST
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Yeah, that is my feeling.
Mar 2, 2015 5:12AM PST

We are all pretty much on a "fixed income" so why flaunt it when doing business? Those key words have become big red flags from my experiences. You try to help them and they end up getting belligerent and threatening.

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"fixed income?!"
Mar 2, 2015 8:15PM PST

"Lady, the ones that worry me are those who don't know how much they have, how much they will be receiving, how much they are spending, never consider the cost, only to discover or claim they don't have the income they'd hoped for, which thankfully all those on fixed incomes are assured of. I'm certainly relieved to hear that you at least are not one of those people!"