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General discussion

Who decided that we now call Orientals, Asians?

Jul 1, 2007 9:35AM PDT

I was told the other day that I'm politically incorrect to use the word Oriental while referring to a human being from the Orient/Far East and that I should call them Asian. Who the hell decided that after several hundred years the word Oriental refers to rugs, art etc.... and not humans from that area? That's totally ridiculous!

When I use that word I do not intend any racial slur at all and I detest another insinuating that it's a slur/object. I'm sticking with Oriental.

I've not posted in SE for a long while, but I'm sure the place hasn't changed and will likely produce objective views on the matter.

Discussion is locked

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I am not an Asian,
Jul 1, 2007 10:00AM PDT

but I don't think calling an Asian an Oriental is racist or a slur. It does show ones ignorance of the correct usage of the word.

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BS!
Jul 1, 2007 10:14AM PDT

it's not incorrect useage of the word one bit. You heard that somewhere?

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.
Jul 1, 2007 10:26AM PDT

o

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"1. often Oriental Of or relating to the countries...
Jul 1, 2007 10:35AM PDT

of the Orient or their peoples or cultures; eastern."

I grew up using the word Oriental and in a respectful sense, too. I have a friend ofRussian decent and he detests what he calls the "arrogance" of any one group insisting on being called Asian. He's got grounds to argue the fact as I see it.

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Going back a few years
Jul 1, 2007 10:44AM PDT

The Random House College Dictionary Rev. 1975

5.(usually cap.) a native or inhabitant of the Orient, esp. one belonging to a native race.

The word Oriental didn't always refer to an object.

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"BS!" Now
Jul 1, 2007 5:06PM PDT
there's a neutral phrase. Happy
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Seems like Asian covers a lot of racial types
Jul 1, 2007 10:07AM PDT

Could be Japanese or Cossacks or Slavs or Mediterranean or Indian. Since Asia is the largest continent, it could cover a lot of racial types. Oriental is specific to Far Eastern. Sould they be called East Asian?

Diana

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(NT) exactly my point NT
Jul 1, 2007 10:16AM PDT
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Asia is a continent
Jul 1, 2007 10:16AM PDT

and orient just means "eastern lands"....as opposed to west which is the "occident". If you are from the US, Mexico, Canada, etc., you are North American. It's a continent. To be absolutely correct, I suppose you'd need to refer to a person's country of origin but that's not possible to know by sight only. Technically, Russians are Asian as well as Middle Easterners but I think we've grown to categorize certain physical features rather than region of origin.

I suppose, to get nit picky, use of the directional terms (east vs west) is not correct. Those terms came from the Europeons when speaking of the known world. If you're in the US, Asia is west and Europe is east so, to a Korean, you might be considered oriental. Happy

I dislike the PC movement as much as anyone. It seems to be coming from the inside more than from the without and as a phony appeasement ploy. My opinion, however, is we're most polite to refer to a person as they would prefer and get over any useless hang ups that causes us. You might start by figuring out what you prefer to be called by a person of another race or origin as opposed to the terms you've heard that describe part of you. My two cents. Keep cool. Happy

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good point.......
Jul 1, 2007 10:25AM PDT

and it must seem arrogant to some Mexicans and some Canadians for the US citizens to be called Americans, too. Perhaps to keep up with the PC crowd and to not offend others I should ask that I be refered to a US North American (or just plain Yank!)

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I think the term
Jul 1, 2007 10:43AM PDT

"Yank" (Yankee) has been used in a derogatory fashion. The words exact origin is argued but is generally meant to refer to certain undesirables by the British...including pirates. So, in one life, being called a Yank would be reason to fight. Today...and to some...it's something to be proud of. Go figure. Happy

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A lot has to do with.....
Jul 1, 2007 10:53AM PDT

the way words are spoken and the users intent. Call me a smart *** and I might laugh, or I call you another one.

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A lot of slurs become points of honor
Jul 1, 2007 11:00AM PDT

Elephants for the Republican party; donkeys for the Democratic party; Blue-nosed Yankee Trader; the list goes on and on.

Diana

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I wouldn't say the British use the yank word
Jul 1, 2007 10:03PM PDT

in a bad way or the way that you refer to Steve. In my experience yank is simply slang,like we might refer to a Londoner as a cockney or someone from Newcastle as a scouse. I agree that its not the best way to address someone from America but i don't think its meant as a slur.
Bev

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Sorry!
Jul 1, 2007 10:05PM PDT

Someone from Newcastle is referred to as a geordy (not sure of the spelling,its not a word i use) Its a liverpudlian who is referred to as a scouse..
Bev

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Geordy??
Jul 1, 2007 10:22PM PDT

I am thinking that might be a reference to King George...maybe George III?? and would possibly mean something of a loyalist at a specific historical turning point. As for Yank, my guess is the word has lost it's meaning. There will probably be a friendly "tug of war" between the Americans and English for a long time....just as there is in the US between north and south. Yankee stuck after the civil war here as the name for northerners. Southerners are "Rebels", or just "Rebs", or maybe "Johnny Rebs". Mostly the terms are not used in a malevolent way but for fun, sport or general needling....least I hope so. Happy

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Do you know Steve
Jul 1, 2007 10:35PM PDT

Iv never really thought about it,but im going to now because its quite interesting! Friendly tug of war? I wasn't aware of that either,apart from some English not agreeing with Bush & the Iraq war. Apart from that i always thought we were great allies? Apart from when our ancestors first settled in America & didn't want to be governed by England. Boy some people know how to hold a grudge! lol Happy

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I wonder now just how many of us in the US
Jul 1, 2007 11:00PM PDT

can claim to have mostly British blood. My own is Czech tainted. Happy

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Thats also really interesting!
Jul 1, 2007 11:16PM PDT

Over here there was a documentary??? (sorry i have terrible problems with my memory) Anyway through DNA etc it basically managed to profile percentages of Asian,German,African decent. One woman on this documentary was the leader of something like 'The Society Of Pure British Decent' She willingly participated in the tests,positive that she was pure English going back to at least the battle of 1066. Others in the program were quite famous like Norman Tebbit who was as close to a thoroughbred as you could get! Anyway when the results came back she was something like 9% British,15% Chinese,18% Middle Eastern & 58% Romany Gypsy! In the end she tried to get the program banned from showing her in it but she didn't manage it! Now thats what you call egg on your face! Happy
Ps sorry about being so vague with the figures etc..

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1066...The battle of Hastings and fall of the Tudors
Jul 1, 2007 11:49PM PDT

to the Normans or some such..if my HS history recollection is still in place. That seems an English landmark year similar to 1776 to the US.

Anyway, her exercise would have been futile as folks from the British Isles came from somewhere else at some time... mostly endo-European or across the more northern routes. It would think that, if we could snapshot the DNA of the general population at different intervals of time, we could watch the blending that's taken place. My own lineage is supposed to include persons from many parts of Britain...many of whom were celts. My Czech side is Bohemian which is named for the "Boi" which is a celtic tribe. I have no use to know this other than to find some distant relationship to the Irish celts that makes it legitimate for me to celebrate St. Patty's Day. Besides that, wanting to be called a "thoroughbred" is for horses. Happy

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Sorry, Steve, the Normans conquered the
Jul 2, 2007 8:53AM PDT

Saxons, even more primitive and ugly than the Tudors. Happy And, after more centuries of evolution, the English developed the Fordor.

Fits in with the language discussion, though, in an odd way. When the Norman [French] took over they intended some sort of cultural genocide, much of which worked. I'm told that's why "excrement" is polite, while [whilst?] "s***" is rude. The first is French to the core, while the everyday Anglo-Saxon word for poop (the intellectual's word Happy ) was the other. So also with the other four-letters.

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You're right, and with all this technology I should have
Jul 2, 2007 10:13AM PDT

looked it up first...or given you a call. Happy For some reason I remember the year 1066 and the Norman Conquest but forget who was on the wrong end of the sword. Of course Henry VIII was a Tudor. He made his own mark on England as well as on a neck or two. I'm not sure what you have against the Germanics (is that a slur). They gave us plenty of interesting words such as farfegnugen and gezuntheit. Stuff you say every day.

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Over here we have same attitude in DAR-
Jul 2, 2007 8:48AM PDT

Daughters of the American Revolution.

To us Yanks, 250 years is a long time. Happy

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(NT) Re: 250. Man yer old! ;)
Jul 4, 2007 12:43PM PDT
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Newcastle is N, near Scotland. Maybe to everyone
Jul 2, 2007 8:45AM PDT

S, they're like Scots. Happy

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Not sure how old you are but I remember
Jul 1, 2007 11:05AM PDT

my Crayola crayon box had a color called "flesh". If they decided to use that color name today, they'd have to make a fair sized box to cover the full palette. That's not just to be PC but to get in harmony with reality. Happy

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Good grief... replying to myself again
Jul 1, 2007 11:08AM PDT

must be older than I realize. Happy

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lol.....
Jul 1, 2007 11:14AM PDT

that's a good one!

I remember that color, too. Happy

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(NT) Don't forget "flesh-colored Band-Aids"
Jul 2, 2007 8:55AM PDT
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(NT) or "N" coloured shoe polish
Jul 2, 2007 12:28PM PDT