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General discussion

Which part of illegal does this judge not understand?

Feb 19, 2004 2:05PM PST
'Judge says gay marriages break the law', but he 'declined to order an immediate halt to the weddings.'. Does anyone sense an emmanation of a penumbra coming up here? Why is he waiting to see what the arguements are? Is this where we're headed? Anarchy when we don't like the law? If so, why was the southern judge (Moore?) unseated for the 10 commandments? I guess there are two standards of justice here. One for PC, and the other for NOT PC.

Since when is 'civil disobedience' engaged in by the government? Can we now expect the way to be opened for community standards to rule in the south?

Discussion is locked

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Who cares, Clay...
Feb 22, 2004 12:27PM PST

Who cares about those laws, Clay? If that judge thought I should be free to conduct my business in any fashion that I cared, why should he not be allowed to refuse to enforce those laws too? What if that judge saw those studies that say that 2 glasses of wine a day were good for the health, and decided to give this "health benefit" to kids? So if that judge felt that they should get that "benefit", and approves, should I be allowed to give it to them in violation of the existing state laws?

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Re:O.K. Blake...
Feb 22, 2004 12:12PM PST
Should any judge be free to ignore any existing law he chose and let its violation continue until he was impeached? - J. Vega

Yes. That's been part of the process since the beginning of our country. I'm sure that if you want to shut down that bar, you can find other legal measures to make it happen...

In your case, only a handful of people would be affected by such a show of civil disobedience so it would be a very localized and minimal situation. But in the case of the SF Gay Marriages, we are talking about an issue that affects hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of Americans across our great nation. So the Gay Marriage issue doesn't even begin to compare to your bar example...

I suppose it would be easier to hang the judge though and find another who would be more likely to rule as some would prefer. That would eliminate the lengthy Impeachment process should it ever be initiated. Somehow, I doubt that the SF Judge has to worry about Impeachment or hanging though since he is doing exactly what Judges are supposed to do...
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Only a handful, Blake...
Feb 22, 2004 12:41PM PST

"only a handful of people would be affected"? The schools out here all have more than a handful of students. If that judge (or another one) was in favor of the legalization of marijuana, should I be allowed to sell it to school kids? Would"That's been part of the process since the beginning of our country." mean that I could continue until that judge were no longer in office.
Can any judge ignore any law that he choses? Can I disobey that law until he leaves office?

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We had a judge like that. We voted him out of office pretty damn quick. LOL - nt
Feb 22, 2004 12:47PM PST

.

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Federal judges are there for life unless impeached. Some localities
Feb 22, 2004 2:23PM PST

appoint judges rather than elect them. I don't know what SF does, but, if appointed, the mayor is not going to cancel his ticket anytime soon.

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If Judicial Activism does not end, this is where we are headed.
Feb 23, 2004 1:00AM PST
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I hope so. Something is needed to put the system back into balance! (NT)
Feb 23, 2004 9:29AM PST

.

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It sure is a pain following 2 threads with the same title....
Feb 21, 2004 1:20AM PST

I sure hope they get this bug fixed in the future.

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I don't know why it happened this time.
Feb 21, 2004 11:06AM PST

I never hit the refresh button any more.

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Re: I don't know why it happened this time -- General plea!
Feb 21, 2004 11:35AM PST

Hi, KP.

This isn't just directed to you, but to everyone. If you notice a duplicate post, particularly at the "root" level, please hit the Modalert button and call it to our attention if there's not yet a reply to the duplicate. That way we can delete the dupe and prevent this sort of problem!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Will do, but I didn't notice it until today. (NT)
Feb 21, 2004 2:42PM PST

.

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Re:Re: I don't know why it happened this time -- General plea!
Feb 22, 2004 1:39AM PST

It'd sure be easier if the dupe didn't post 45 minutes later....

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Re: General plea!
Feb 22, 2004 12:21PM PST

Hi, Clay (and KP).

>>sure be easier if the dupe didn't post 45 minutes later....<<
I agree 100% -- all we can do is try to mitigate the damage!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re: Which part of illegal does this judge not understand? -- Rosa parks' actions were illegal, too...
Feb 21, 2004 11:38AM PST

That doesn't make them wrong, KP. Bad laws need to be challenged -- and if the judge feels a law violates a principle of equal protection, then the judge is correct in his actions. At his level, striking the law down himself would be unprecedented. What he's hoping is that his ruling will be appealed to the next higher level; since the 9th Circuit is generally a liberal one, the proponents of anti-gay discrimination daren't go there.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Yes, and she was ARRESTED! Lots of criminals are arrested for law breaking, so what?!
Feb 21, 2004 11:44AM PST

And today if you get in a seat on an airplane that you don't have assigned to you, especially if it's in a RESERVED section, like first class, and make a big stink over not giving it up to the one who has the assignment to that seat, you can STILL be arrested.

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Yeah, that's the same thing. -nt
Feb 23, 2004 12:08AM PST

.

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Liberal is too weak a term...
Feb 21, 2004 2:49PM PST

like attempting to outlaw the Pledge of Allegiance! The most reversed of all the circuit courts, but go there they will have to do to get to the Supreme Court.

As far as the judge, he's ruling (by inaction) even before being presented with evidence or argument. He is allowing SF to ignore the rule of law. That's the lesson to the country. Is that what liberals want?

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There you go, Dave...
Feb 22, 2004 12:41AM PST

There you go, Dave, you finally got around to saying your motivation/plan. You said, "What he's hoping is that his ruling will be appealed to the next higher level; since the 9th Circuit is generally a liberal one, the proponents of anti-gay discrimination daren't go there.". Never mind the existing law or the votes of the people, maneuver a situation to get it in a chosen venue that will let you "end-run" all that.
Mentioning Rosa Parks was cute, an attempt to attach racism to the argument. Let's consider her case. She wanted to bring the segreation laws "to a head", so she got herself arrested as a "test case" and the law came tumbling down. The current situation is an attempt to change the law without a case, test or otherwise. Would such an "end-run" have short circuited the case of Rosa Parks if that routine were in place back then?
Dave, in a way this reminds of the Malvo sniper case, and your displeasure at the idea of letting another state (especially a Southern one) have their day in court for wrongs committed there. You may think that people in some states are your "social inferiors", but they are not, from Rosa Parks to the to the courts of Alabama. The laws and established legal proceedures are for everybody. If there is a "wrong", let it go to the full-blown legal process and if shown to be so, be changed by that process. A good like Parks or a bad like Marvo, let the legal system, and all of it, act.