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Question

Which camcorder should I get for recording my gigs?

Sep 13, 2014 1:06AM PDT

Hello,

I'm a stand-up comedian in the UK and I'm looking to invest in a digital camcorder that would allow me to record my live sets and put them on youtube. I'd also like to make some of the money from my camera back by offering to film the sets of other comedians too.

Here's what I need from my camera...

BUDGET - up to £750 (about $1200)

REQUIREMENTS

A lot of my gigs are done in low light and sound quality areas, and I want something that will get good footage from a variety of different sound and lighting conditions.

Something that produces footage I can easily edit and upload to youtube.

Not too bulky. I'll be taking this across the country with me, so I'd prefer something that's not enormous.


If you experts can think of anything that'd suit my needs, or you need any more info to make a recommendation, please just comment below. I'd really appreciate everyone's opinion.

Discussion is locked

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Answer
If you've read the prior answers to low light
Sep 13, 2014 1:09AM PDT

You discover that nothing has changed. I think for audio you may want to slip something like a Sanyo ICR-XPS01M onto your stage. Low light means, well, we have prior discussions on that.
Bob

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Here's a list of low light
Sep 13, 2014 1:26AM PDT
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Answer
While I agree with Bob,
Sep 13, 2014 5:06AM PDT

we can help with details here rather than searching...

Camcorder:
Typically, you will see the "professionals" using "big bulky" camcorders because they have large diameter lenses to allow in light (more than itty bitty lenses) and they have a large imaging chip (or 3-chip array) to deal with the light coming in through the lens. That they are large allows them to deal much better with poor lighting situations. Any camcorder can record decent video under good lighting conditions. The wider window of opportunity from the large lens and large imaging chip means use/purchase of that single large bulky camcorder rather than investing in different camcorders for different lighting conditions.

Audio:
Since you never know what the audio infrastructure will be in each venue, it is difficult to know what might be available from the house. Even if there is an audio board/mixer, there may be bad channels, outputs you want might be used for something else, or the venue or other performers may not want their performance recorded. If all it is is standup - no instruments, no other audio cues involved, then it is pretty straightforward - single wireless lave on the talent. Done. As soon as you stray from that, things can get complicated pretty quickly. Lots of variables. Wireless mics are handy - and those which will not have as much of an issue with interference from power cable, lights (stage and otherwise), and all matter of radio frequency and electromagnetic frequency interference) will not be inexpensive. You can try the low end stuff - but again, look at what the pros use. While they would rather have more money in their pocket, they buy what they buy because the gear is more rugged and chances for picking up interference is a lot less.

An alternative is to record the audio using an external recorder and get the house audio from the house mains speakers (if they are being used). Be sure to place the audio recorder near the house speakers or whatever the audio output is. This, like an external mic, decouples the audio from the framing of the video. That way, you have little dependency on the location of the of the internal camcorder mics.

Generally, it will be easiest to place the camcorder at the back of the house and zoomed in on the stage. With any luck, the lighting is not as poor as you think it is on stage as compared to the audience "poor lighting".

For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obYN21ZQtco
The house audio was recorded by the camcorders. I brought lighting in (two light trees, each with two PAR56 cans). The camcorders used were a Sony HDR-FX1 and HDR-HC1. I know this video goes back a couple of years, but the principles remain the same.

If you budget is for the camcorder only, you are in the high end of consumer camcorders. The Canon HF G25 is a good one - as is the Sony HDR-CX900 and you may be able to add other gear over time. If your budget includes tripod, wireless mic, case and other stuff, I don't think we can get there from here as the wireless mic (Sennheiser or Shure UHF lavalier) may consume too much. An external audio recorder might work (like a Zoom H1).

If pressed, a shopping list:
Canon HF R500 (I don't know if there is a PAL counterpart) - be sure whatever camcorder you select has an audio input. In your budget range, this will be a 3.5mm stereo audio input. Many low end camcorders have no audio input at all, so be sure the specs have that listed. You'll want 1-2 optional high capacity batteries in case the camcorder needs to be placed where there is not power available. The battery in the box with the camcorder likely won't be enough.
Shure Sony UWP-D11 (I use Sennheiser G3 labs, but Shure's good, too).
A fluid head tripod - not fluid-like - Magnus and Davis & Sanford have "low end" ones (less than $150).
Pelican cases are my choice.
We probably blew through your budget. Expect the small lens and imaging chip on the R500 to be a problem under poor lighting conditions.

Lighting: up to you. Light trees are cumbersome. So are PAR cans and their travel cases. Getting to the venue 2 hours ahead of everyone else and setting up, extension power cables, etc... and being the last to leave after packing up can be tiring. You may not be allowed to pack up until all the customers are gone.

"Easily edit and upload"... Define "easy".
The first time I use PowerPoint, I had no idea what I was doing. But I learned. It is now easy.

The first time I sat in front of a video editor, I had no clue. There is no other interface like it. Video, especially high definition video, is a computer resource hog. It will use every CPU cycle and available hard drive space. You will want to edit, add titles, insert transitions, add credits, and render. We don't know what computer you want to edit on, or what you plan to edit with. I started with iMovie on Apple Macintoshes and moved to Final Cut. The equivalent in the Windows path would be MovieMaker, then to Sony Vegas or Adobe Premier. Any high definition video will have challenges - whether AVCHD compressed (like the Canon HF R500 and most other consumer camcorders) or MP4 (the manufacturers are moving to this) or even MOV files with h.264 format video in them. ALL require the editing computer to have a fast CPU, lots of RAM and (especially in your case) a ton of external hard drive storage space. After editing for a lot of years, I can say it is "easy" but I don't do half the stuff the video editors I use are capable of doing... and this is a hobby for me.

And you will probably want (and need) the other performers to sign releases (there are boiler plates available on line). And you'll probably need to get permission from each of the venues (preferably in writing) each time you record.

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And if you *think* you
Sep 13, 2014 9:18AM PDT

want to go in with a dSLR, I *strongly* suggest you download and read the manual, first. I've found that most dSLRs under about $1,000 are designed to capture digital still images and video (and audio) capture is a "convenience feature". When you read through the manual, you will typically find warnings about overheating and auto-shutdown "after prolonged video capture" (usually about 20 minutes), file size limitations (4 gig for a single sequence, though a new sequence happens automatically) and sequence duration (29 minutes, 59 seconds - assuming it does not shutdown from overheating, first). Most will capture internal camera noise (autofocus motor), too, if the built-in mics are used. Usually, the captured file type is MOV (with h.264-compressed video inside the MOV envelope) so there may be transcoding step(s) needed for your video editor.

They can capture great video - don't get me wrong - but they are not a camcorder and should not be considered a replacement for a camcorder...

But...

There are several designed for video like the Sony NEX VG series, NEX-EA50, Canon Cinema Cam, Blackmagic Design Cinema cam - they all have interchangeable lens systems and large APS-C (or larger) sized imaging chips (and the Canon and Sony products have a hot shoe for a flash), but none of the file limitations or overheating issues of a low end dSLR. They all probably fit into your "bulky" definition, so that, and being outside your budget, drops them from your short list.

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This is all fantastically helpful!
Sep 13, 2014 10:26PM PDT

Just to pick up on what you said about audio, what I do is just straight stand up, no instruments. We have a mic and that's it. Are you saying I'd therefore be best off buying an external sound recorder as well as the camcorder?

Sorry if that's blindingly obvious, it's just something I hadn't considered in any way.

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Not "blindingly obvious"...
Sep 14, 2014 2:58AM PDT

but I might have been reading more into your post than I should... I now understand that your schtick is "just stand up", but the part about "offering to film the sets of other comedians" - when you don't know who you are working with until you show up for the gig - got my attention. Could be a beat-box juggler that's got some one-liners or a lute player with awesome lyrics. And if 4 of the 5 are "just" stand up but #5 uses an audio prop, it gets odd when you can't offer everyone - maybe it is just me...

As for being better off getting an external audio recorder... I get a bit paranoid and like to have "back up". In my book, it is not either/or - it is both. The best audio will come from the mic element closest to the source of the audio. This might mean placing the recorder at the foot of the stage (or on stage) on a mic stand or directly in front of a house speaker (useful if the talent makes use of the stage). If the audio recorder is placed near/on the camcorder, the built-in camcorder mics would do a similar job.

And the closest mic will be the one in the talent's hand. Lavaliere's are useful, but if you have only one you are in dead time between acts trying to move the body-pack and clip-on mic from the person who just left the stage onto the person about to hit the stage. Some performers like to use a handheld mic (and stand) and incorporate item into their act. Some prefer to use a wireless lav because they use their hands when they deliver their performance...

Tough love...

Honestly, with *all* the performers out there and the capability to capture video and audio having been around for many many years, you'd think more would do what you want to do. What I have found is that they tried, it took too much effort and attention away from their act and prep, the quality is not what was expected/required (video and audio) and they pay a buddy (cash, food, drink, whatever) to attend the show and do it for them... The two ways I have seen this type of effort even close to being successful is when the venue does it - they know what their space needs in the way of lighting, cameras, audio and all that. They are already there, so nothing to set up or pack for the next performance at a different location. Different mics are run through a mixing board and the audio output is recorded and later synch'd with the video when the editing is done. The release becomes part of the contract when you agree to perform there... OR when the "hired buddy" has a bit more than basic, entry level, consumer grade, equipment and knows enough to get permission from the venue ahead of time, has blank releases ready for all to sign and is at the venue hours before/after showtime for set up and breakdown/packing after the guest are long gone (and has plans and equipment for lighting.

If all you want is a camcorder on a tripod at the back of the room, press record and hope for the best, then the audio and lighting concerns are moot. A Canon Canon HF G25 or Sony HDR-CX900 are fine. Their 58mm lenses and large imaging chips *might* do what you want with no additional lighting. The camcorder captures the body shot and does not move when the performer moves - perhaps out of frame. Expect to worry that it is not stolen, kicked/moved because there is no "camera operator" making sure the framing is OK when you might be more concerned about your performance and material. Watching friends go through all this, recording on their own worked about the first 2-5 times, then lighting and audio improvements are needed and all the above stuff starts coming into play. From my observation, you might skip the "learn by doing", but that is up to you. (I bet the $1,000 camcorder budget would go a pretty long way toward hiring someone... like a local community college or similar film department looking for capture/editing experience - and they already have equipment.)

If you want to be a producer, then focus on that... I'm not saying what you want to do can't be done - I hope you can do it and are wildly successful, but the odds are definitely not in your favor using recent history as a guide...