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Where is this God ?

by Milan_Blansher / January 19, 2006 5:46 AM PST

This may sound heretical but I am losing faith with my religon. According to our principles, God created the Earth, God created humans in his image, and God threw humans out of Paradise. Apparently God now hates us. He lets innocent people die, doesnt stop rogue nations and dont get me started on terrorism. According to The Bible God lets everything happen for a ''purpose'' but lets take a closer look at His ''purposes''

Was Adoolf Hitler's faith being tested when he started a war that would kill over 60 million people?

What was the purpose of Hurricane Katrina? Did God accept the consquences of his actions?

Where is God to help us in our time of need? I remember a few years back when Enron and Worldcom went bust, was God there to bail them out?

Is God just sitting by as AIDS ravages Africa and spreads globally

This relly does make me doubt my faith but consider this to yourself: If God exists where is He and why is He being such a jerk, yes I said it, why cant He get off his ''throne'' and help the human race? Is that too much to ask for? I dont think so.

(By the way, because of extreme conservative bias among those in power in the SE I will not openly disclose my religon and I am aware that that this post might be deleted just because it doesnt cut the conservative mustard)

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(NT) (NT) and you beleave theres a god?
by Mark5019 / January 19, 2006 6:01 AM PST
In reply to: Where is this God ?
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Like I said before
by Milan_Blansher / January 19, 2006 6:07 AM PST

I do believe in this God but everyday my doubt towards Him grows.

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(NT) (NT) We only reap what we create.
by Rolway / January 19, 2006 6:32 AM PST
In reply to: Like I said before
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(NT) (NT) Im a conservative, but also an atheist
by Dragon / January 19, 2006 11:31 AM PST
In reply to: Like I said before
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Simple answer
by duckman / January 19, 2006 6:30 AM PST
In reply to: Where is this God ?

How would one know love, if one didn't know hate? How would one know joy if one did not know? God gave us all free will, He doesn't control us, or the planet. So endth the lesson.

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by Glenda / January 19, 2006 6:37 AM PST
In reply to: Where is this God ?

In the same place he has always been? God does not have control over this planet, as God gave it to Adam and Eve and they gave it's dominion over to Satan! God does not interfere with man's freewill! He does answer prayer, when we remember to include Him in our lives.
In other words you are trying to blame God for what man has done:( I suggest you read your Bible and ask God for His understanding before you start!

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Christians believe that God has control over the entire
by Kiddpeat / January 19, 2006 9:04 AM PST
In reply to: Well.........

creation. He didn't give that to anybody. It's tempting to try to give God a way out, but that doesn't work. The whole concept is referred to as the sovereignty of God. It is an idea taught in the New Testament most clearly where Paul tells us that it is God who puts all government authority into place. The same idea is taught in the Old Testament where God raised nations up for specific purposes, and over threw them when they misused their power.

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by Glenda / January 19, 2006 9:25 AM PST

Read Matthew 4:5
And the devil, Taking Him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. v.6 and the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them:
for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I give it.
v.7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all will be thine.

Also read Luke 4:2
And Hebrews 4.2 & 22.28

Apparently Satan had the the power to offer what was his or Jesus wouldn't have answered him to Not tempt the Lord God

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Read Job. Satan could not act without God's permission,
by Kiddpeat / January 19, 2006 9:54 AM PST
In reply to: KP....

and God placed restraints on what Satan was allowed to do. When Job asks for an explanation, God says the He, God, caused Job to suffer. He does not say that Satan did it.

Satan may have claimed that he controlled the world, but Jesus did not confirm that. Satan is always a deceiver offering things which he cannot deliver. He was offering Jesus popularity and acclaim if Jesus would operate within the worldly system. He was offering the gain without the pain. There was no assurance that he could deliver what he promised (and he certainly could not have delivered it), but the issue was a temptation to take the easy way out.

Paul tells us again and again that it is God who decides. It is God who appoints rulers, for example, and He does that for our good.

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(NT) (NT) Want to take this discussion to email?
by Glenda / January 19, 2006 9:56 AM PST
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Sure if you think that would be helpful. I'll have to crank
by Kiddpeat / January 19, 2006 10:01 AM PST

up the reference software.

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by Glenda / January 19, 2006 10:05 AM PST

No fair using the reference software! I have to use my Thompson Chain Reference KJV Bible:)! LOL
My email this mememer is active. I noticed yours is off:(

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(NT) (NT) I have sent you my address.
by Kiddpeat / January 19, 2006 2:41 PM PST
In reply to: LOL
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The difference is God allowed this
by Glenda / January 19, 2006 10:03 AM PST

because Satan and God in a discussion, Satan said he could turn God's most faithful from him. Job was being used to show Satan that it wouldn't work. The point I was making is that We allowed Satan to have dominion of this world when we sinned. God is allowing Satan to reign until He comes back. I don't think we really disagree on this subject so much as we are looking at it from different points. I know God is in control of my life, I also know that God will not take control of someone that is acting on his own freewill.
There is another verse that talks about Satans and his demons domain, will have to look that one up! You sure make me get my Bible out a lot:)

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I think there is more to Job than that. The heart of God's
by Kiddpeat / January 19, 2006 10:11 AM PST

message to Job, I think, is when God essentially tells Job "Who do you think you are to question what I am doing? Where you here when I created the universe? You have no clue about the deepest truths of all that there is. I am not answerable to you, and you will have to trust my judgement."

Satan was used to help communicate that message to Job and to us.

Yes, I think we probably do essentially agree in our theology. Like everyone, we can be expected to have some differences around the edges.


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Job was my MIL's
by Glenda / January 19, 2006 11:08 AM PST

favorite Book in the Bible. We had many discussions on what she got from all of Jobs afflictions. My MIL was very ill from the time we got married and she found a great deal of comfort in the fact hat unles God allowed it nothing could touch her. And that no matter how ill or how down she was God never left her side.
Thanks for a great discussion KP:) I enjoyed it very much.

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by marinetbryant / January 19, 2006 12:25 PM PST
In reply to: Job was my MIL's

There's more to Job than meets the eye. Just what was the relationship between God and Satan, why was Satan never punished and doesn't Job deserve a better answer than "I am that I am"? The book really bothers me .

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by Glenda / January 19, 2006 12:33 PM PST
In reply to: Job

is a book that is hard to understand. But think after all He allowed to be taken God replaced it all:) Like I said in an earlier post Satan is this worlds ruler. A lot of the Bible backs that up, why else could he offer the world to Jesus if he didn't own it? My MIL loved Job because she was so many times in the same position with her health and yet Job never once cursed God. I know;) I didn't answer your question did I? Too hard for me:)

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by marinetbryant / January 19, 2006 1:26 PM PST
In reply to: Job

I try to watch Mysteries of the Bible when it's on the tube. Not sure about Mark but lost a lot of faith overseas and when I was a cop In Atlanta. However I do have a central core of belief that helps. Ask for His guidance and help, don't pray for the lottery though, and He's taken pretty good care of me. Darn sure would like to know why!

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Because Tom
by Glenda / January 20, 2006 1:27 AM PST
In reply to: Job

Even when you are not sure you believe in Him, He believes in you:)
When I am down and not living what I believe His presence is there convicting me. Do you think maybe He is there with you doing that now?
God , there at the mountaintops and in the valleys too:)

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It should bother you. It doesn't portray God as a nice, old,
by Kiddpeat / January 20, 2006 5:01 AM PST
In reply to: Job

somewhat senile, man in the sky. It portrays an omnipotent and omniscient creator who operates on a level far above our ability to comprehend. That's really not very hard to understand. We operate today on a level, technologically, that Job would not have understood.

Who says Satan was never punished, and, by implication, never will be?

Who says that the answer given to Job was not adequate? Job was satisfied with it. In addition, the answer was not "I am that I am". It really consisted of two parts.

1. Job was told that he didn't have the knowledge, perspective, or judgement to understand why God did what He did. God created the universe. No one told Him how. He is far beyond what Job can ever understand.

2. Job was told he needed to trust God. Our current life and experience is not all that there is or ever will be. What seems inexplicable to us now will one day, with far more experience and perspective, be perfectly obvious.

Let's hope that, when that day comes, we will not regret the choices we made in the interim.

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by marinetbryant / January 20, 2006 7:09 AM PST

Yeah, I paraphrased some, and maybe Job was answered. But I want to know. My Mom, unshakable faith, says we'll find out when we get there. Sorry but I want some answers now!

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by Glenda / January 20, 2006 7:12 AM PST
In reply to: Bother

we aren't always ready to understand WHY God does what he does. In His perfect wisdom we will all know when it is time. Hang in there God is not thru with any of us yet:)

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by marinetbryant / January 20, 2006 7:20 AM PST
In reply to: Tom........

I do understand that part, just overly curious, nosey, impatient....

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by Glenda / January 20, 2006 7:30 AM PST
In reply to: Tom........

LOL! Aren't we all??? You are talking to one of the least patient people in the world here! Devil

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Waiting till you get there could well lead to an unpleasant
by Kiddpeat / January 20, 2006 7:53 AM PST
In reply to: Bother

surprise. I hope you will keep searching until you are satisfied that you have found God.

Have you ever read CS Lewis? Mere Christianity or The Problem of Pain might help your search.

Good luck, and keep asking and searching. Jesus promised that those who search will find. Perhaps look for a group of Christians who are open to intellectual questions, and who are able to give satisfactory answers.

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by marinetbryant / January 20, 2006 10:23 AM PST

Have several of Lewis' books, plus St Thomas Aquinas,St.Ignatius, St. Augustine, Thomas a Kempis, St. John of the Cross (Dark Night of the Soul-very intense), Blaise Pascal, G.K. Chesterton's "The Everlasting Man",a book by Carl Jung, several Calvin and Hobbs and Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

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I tell people
by Diana Forum moderator / January 20, 2006 10:38 AM PST

If I am wrong, I won't have lost anything. I love the people I've met in church and I wouldn't have lived my life any differently.

If you are wrong, what will you have lost?


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Re: I tell people
by Kiddpeat / January 20, 2006 3:06 PM PST

If I am wrong, then I stand with Paul as among the most miserable of men because I have based my life on a lie. The lie is that God came to earth as Jesus Christ, that He taught us the way of salvation, and offered us eternal life if we accept Him as our God and Lord. The lie is also that He died for our sins, and rose from the dead as proof that He is who He said He is.

If it's a lie, then my future is bleak. The best I can hope for is oblivian. I'll have given money away when I could have spent it on myself. I'll have wasted time telling people about Jesus when I could have been enjoying myself or earning money or both. I'll have missed the joys of life in wine, women, and song. I'll have sacrificed my own self interest when I should have maximized my own pleasure.

It might be better if I were wrong, and that no one will be judged and condemned by God. However, I think a bit of reflection will give you pause about that possibility. Hours could be spent exploring the implications of that idea.

However, one thing gives me pause. If I have based my life on the big lie, I should have some clue or suspicion that that is the case. I don't have that. My life seems to confirm my belief, as does the world that I observe around me. My life seems to confirm the idea that I need to try to reach out to those who are living and dying without Jesus. If I am not wrong, it is a terrible thing to face God without Jesus to plead our case.

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"when we get there"
by drpruner / January 23, 2006 5:25 AM PST
In reply to: Bother

Where is "there", do you think?

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