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General discussion

Whatever happened to "blessed are the Peacemakers?"

Mar 11, 2004 9:21PM PST
Ex-congressional aide indicted as Iraqi agent.
>>Investigators said she had tried to influence U.S. policy toward Iraq by presenting herself as an intermediary to a highly placed relative, Andrew Card, the White House chief of staff.... Federal law enforcement officials said that despite Lindauer's extensive contacts with the Iraqis, there was little evidence to suggest that she had harmed national security by passing any sensitive intelligence to Saddam's government. <<
translation -- she tried to get in the way of the Bush juggernaut towards war with Iraq. Remember how we all applauded the bravery of a now-dead Chinese student who stood in front of a tank at Tienamien Square? How is her action any different?

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

Discussion is locked

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LOL! Beer brewing instructions and how to make distilled liquors for the New Islam.
Mar 12, 2004 12:05AM PST

,

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Do they grow hops in Iraq? -nt
Mar 12, 2004 12:43AM PST

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Don't know. Maybe they can use poppies from Afghanistan instead. [nt]
Mar 12, 2004 11:51AM PST

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WOW! Set me up with a pint of that!!! -nt
Mar 14, 2004 11:22PM PST

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How is it different, Dave...
Mar 11, 2004 9:44PM PST

Dave, there is a world of difference. According to the story, "federal prosecutors unsealed an indictment that said she had met repeatedly with representatives of the Iraqi intelligence service starting in 1999 and that she had traveled to Baghdad in 2002 for meetings with Iraqi intelligence officials".
Got that, Dave, she met with agents of an intelligence service of a country, and even traveled to that country. This, you would have the country condone because she is politically connected with the Democratic Party and/or you wish to politically damage Bush.

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Re: How is it different, Dave...
Mar 12, 2004 3:20AM PST

Hi, J.

I have no particular brief for her as being connected to the Democratic Party -- her "connection" is that she's a 2nd cousin of a current White House higher-up. The key point is that MANY Christian peace activists were trying to stop the inexorable march towards war at the time in question, including the Pope. Surely you aren't going to claim he's a Communist, or favors Saddam? And I'd say subsequent events are proving right those who tried to stop the war, though I know you don't agree.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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The story said, Dave...
Mar 12, 2004 4:55AM PST

Dave, the story said, "After stints as a journalist in the 1980s and early 1990s, Lindauer worked as press secretary for a number of Democrats on Capitol Hill, including, in 1996, Sen. Carol Moseley Braun of Illinois.".
What has the Pope do with it, or you saying that he is a registered agent of a foreign government? (sarcasm) How did Communist get into this? That secretary I mentioned passed info to a non-communist country.
Trying to misdirect again? She went to the park and "passed the trash". She took money from the intelligence service of a foreign power. She was not a registered agent of that power.

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Re:The story said, Dave...
Mar 12, 2004 12:23PM PST

Hi, J.

She is not charged with espionage (she would have been if they had any hint of such), and the Administration officials said that there was no evidence that she tried to pass any important information. My guess is that she went to Iraq, said "I have a relative high up in the White House and would like to try to facilitate peace overtures between Iraq and Washington. Who can I talk to?" and they told her to talk to an <b>alleged intlligence agent. As I said, even that much is supicious from the lack of espionage charges.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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One more time, Dave:
Mar 12, 2004 4:59AM PST

This has nothing to do with Susan Lindauer's beliefs on Iraq or the fact that Andrew Card (who claims not to know of any relationship) is a fourth or fifth cousin. It also has nothing to do with the fact that she has worked for three or four Democratic members of Congress. It has everything to do with the allegations that she has violated the Foreign Agents' Registration Act. Pursuant to that act, there is no legal prohibition against acting as an agent of a foreign government, so long as a state of Congressionally approved war does not exist with that government, and that the agent formally registers with the Department of State as an agent of that government.

In this case, Ms. Lindauer failed to register as an agent of the government of Saddam Hussein. Consequently, any actions she took on behalf of Iraq, irrespective of her views on U.S. policy towards Iraq, were illegal if she was being directly compensated by the Iraqi government for those actions - as appears to have been the case.

Please note that Ms. Lindauer was NOT charged with espionage. Her political views have no bearing whatsoever on the substance of the case against her. To attempt to be a "peacemaker" is one thing - and amply protected by the Constitution. However, for a U.S. citizen to knowingly act as a paid agent for any foreign power without the knowledge on the U.S. government is a violation of the law - in this case a Federal felony punishable by 10 years in prison and/or a $10,000 fine. Her antiwar stance is completely irrelevant.

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Re: One more time, Dave:
Mar 12, 2004 8:31AM PST

Hi, Paul.

Get real -- $5,000 is not being "paid" for your activities -- it's defraying (probably only partially) the costs of travel etc. Now, that may technically be a violation, but as with Greenpeace (see my "$5,000" thread above if you want the link), this reeks of selective prosecution of a political opponent, which is a tactic normally associated with totalitarian regimes, not democracies. Just another example of how rapidly we're sliding down that slippery slope...

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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I hope you'll pardon me Dave if I say your posts have all the earmarks of partisanship, and
Mar 12, 2004 10:42AM PST

none of the earmarks of an impartial observer seeking justice.

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Re: I hope you'll pardon me Dave if I say your posts have all the earmarks of partisanship, and
Mar 12, 2004 12:25PM PST

Hi, KP.

You claim to be a Chistian. As far as I know, the Beatitudes do not say "Blessed are the peacemakers, unless your government is the one planning to attack!"

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Let me get this straight. She was discussing how to support post war resistance groups,
Mar 15, 2004 4:55AM PST

and you think she's a peace maker? Post war resistance groups are the ones setting road side bombs. Did she expect everyone would be killed to achieve peace?

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You are an amazing person Dave - how you invent such drivel in the face of adversity NT
Mar 12, 2004 12:15PM PST

NT

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HaHaHaHaHa...oh come on Dave! You can do better than that.
Mar 12, 2004 10:31AM PST

Christian peace activists? Past posts indicate that you may not know what a Christian is! As for the pope, I'm sure he'll appreciate your putting him on your side of the debate! How convenient.

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We don't know enough yet. This one's on the back burner yet for me. [nt]
Mar 12, 2004 12:01AM PST

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According to the Chicago Sun Times,
Mar 12, 2004 10:07AM PST

she was responsible for reporting on the addresses and activities of Iraqi dissidents in the US. In other words, she was figuring out who should be hit. Hardly sounds like a harmless, little lady to me. She certainly does not compare to the individual who braved the Chinese tank. This post is outrageous Dave.

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I can't wait, Kiddpeat...
Mar 12, 2004 10:42AM PST

Kiddpeat, I can't wait to see how Dave K. tries to spin this one. Yelling "Greenpeace" won't do it.

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And more from the Chicago Sun Times,
Mar 14, 2004 11:54PM PST
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Re: And more from the Chicago Sun Times,
Mar 15, 2004 4:34AM PST

Hi, Bo.

Democrats don't refuse to exist a war on terrosim exists, or oppose it. But the only reason Spain is suddenly in the front-lines is their support for our ill-considered foray into Iraq, using the war on terror to settle old scores while actually diverting many much-needed resources from that war. What you folks refuse to concede is that we're all (well, almost all) on the same side when it comes to the war on terror. Where we part company is on Bush's insistence of an attack on Iraq as part of that battle. And Democrats aren't alone in that -- most of the world, though also against terrorism, considers America's preoccupation with Iraq to be foolhardy and unjustified.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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So, you DID see this thread before, and you DID see the Chicago Sun Times quoted.
Mar 15, 2004 4:47AM PST

So why ask me in another part of the thread where I got the info re: her spying on individuals? Selective memory at work? BTW, where was the Democrat criticism of invading Iraq when the votes approving that attack were taken? The Dems want to forget about that don't they?

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Yep, KP....
Mar 15, 2004 6:05AM PST

Just like they all want to forget that to a person they all believed that Saddam had WMD. The person with enough guts to act on that belief is noe called a 'liar'.

Bo

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Is the student that faced the tank actually dead? Got a link on that? {nt}
Mar 15, 2004 11:41AM PST

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