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Whatever happened to "blessed are the Peacemakers?"

by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / March 11, 2004 9:21 PM PST
Ex-congressional aide indicted as Iraqi agent.
>>Investigators said she had tried to influence U.S. policy toward Iraq by presenting herself as an intermediary to a highly placed relative, Andrew Card, the White House chief of staff.... Federal law enforcement officials said that despite Lindauer's extensive contacts with the Iraqis, there was little evidence to suggest that she had harmed national security by passing any sensitive intelligence to Saddam's government. <<
translation -- she tried to get in the way of the Bush juggernaut towards war with Iraq. Remember how we all applauded the bravery of a now-dead Chinese student who stood in front of a tank at Tienamien Square? How is her action any different?

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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NT - Blessed are the peacemakers because everyone else is mad at them
by Diana Forum moderator / March 11, 2004 9:32 PM PST

.

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Especially when, Diana...

Especially when they get caught red-handed playing "pass the trash".
From that story, "The indictment also said Lindauer met last summer with an undercover FBI agent posing as a Libyan intelligence officer seeking help in supporting resistance groups inside Iraq. She twice left documents for the undercover agent at designated spots in Takoma Park, the indictment said.".
Note: Bad writing, started with "The indictment also said" and ended with "the indictment said." As I directly quoted it, I did not clip the end redundancy.

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Re:Especially when, Diana...
by Dan McC / March 11, 2004 10:42 PM PST

What was in the documents? The reports I've seen so far have given no description of the informations she is accused of relaying.

Dan

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Nor did you...
by J. Vega / March 11, 2004 10:54 PM PST

Nor were you presented publically with the documents in the Robert Hanssen FBI spy scandal.
Even if it were a "honey trap", just the act of passing them is a crime that stands by itself.

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Maybe it was crossword puzzles.
by Dan McC / March 11, 2004 11:00 PM PST
In reply to: Nor did you...

Or cupcake recipies. Or box scores of the spring training games. Or a list of her favorite boy bands.

The Hanssen information was described, but not detailed. Maybe that's where you're confused.

Dan

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I'm not confused at all....
by J. Vega / March 11, 2004 11:30 PM PST

I'm not confused at all, they "nailed" a secretary where I worked. Your inexperience with the subject is not confusion on my part.
Do you wonder if she declared that $5,000 she got from the Iraq intelligence service on her income tax? Think about that one before you answer, it's a "Bart Simpson".

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If she has undeclared income...
by Dan McC / March 12, 2004 12:04 AM PST

that's a problem. But I've still not seen any description or characterization of the information that she is accused of delivering.

Dan

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the problem goes beyond...
by J. Vega / March 12, 2004 12:16 AM PST

The "problem" goes beyond IRS tax money problems in that failure, hiding it indicates something in court. Court is where the details of the documents come out, not the newspapers.

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Hiding it? You're kidding, right?
by Dan McC / March 12, 2004 12:42 AM PST

She was a particularly bad hider if she was trying to keep her activities secret.

***
The indictment said Ms. Lindauer delivered a letter early last year to a United States government official listing her access to and contacts with Saddam Hussein's government.
***

Dan

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And then she....
by J. Vega / March 12, 2004 1:25 AM PST

And then she walked right into a trap with open eyes.
I assure, you, the people who deal with such things are not "kidding", they tend to move when they have a "mortal lock".

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What trap?
by Dan McC / March 12, 2004 2:37 AM PST
In reply to: And then she....

They picked her up at her house. I'd bet $5 that she'd have driven herself in if they had called her. Nary a cloak or dagger in play. I hope they didn't spend too many taxpayer dollars constructing this mortal lock. She did, after all, deliver an accounting of her activities to a government official.

No material here to help A. A. Milne, much less Ian Fleming.

Dan

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The trap was...
by J. Vega / March 12, 2004 4:42 AM PST
In reply to: What trap?

The trap was showing up in Takoma Park and passing documents to an FBI agent who was impersonating a foreign agent. On the spending taxpayer dollars silliness, agents are on salary and don't work by the hour.

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We have names for people like that in this country - traitors - and I hope the full weight of the law is brought to bear on her :(
by SteveGargini / March 12, 2004 12:01 PM PST
In reply to: How's this Dan?

nt

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The full weight of the law will be brought to bear on me - above message is a NT Sorry folks :( NT

NT

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Re:How's this Dan?
by Roger NC / March 12, 2004 12:57 PM PST
In reply to: How's this Dan?
The indictment does not charge Lindauer with espionage. Rather, it alleges Lindauer became an Iraqi agent in October 1999 and failed to report her status to the U.S. government, as required.

Ok, she broke the law, and may face jail time. If this was all of it, I'd be a bit suspicious that it was a case of finding a law to break the individual, since we've all broken some law.

She took $10,000 from the Iraqis, met with Iraqi Intelligence Service agents in New York and made trips to Baghdad, the indictment alleges.

This is a bit more ominous, meeting with a foreign intelligence service, espcially one that would have to be considered an unfriendly country even before the war reopened. But I guess if she had regestered, she'd technically still not be doing anything wrong, unless there is some embargo on travel to Iraq at the time.

Her work allegedly included giving an agent names and addresses of Iraqis who had fled the Hussein regime.

If this is proved true, the seriousness rachetts up a notch. This could be seen as helping to target political persecuted refugees for revenge by the government they fled.

Lindauer also allegedly had contact with an FBI agent impersonating a Libyan spy, with whom she discussed helping resistance factions in post-war Iraq. Acting on instructions from the FBI agent, Lindauer left documents in Takoma Park.

If proven true, and depending on what the documents were or were suppose to be, this could change the entire complexion of the whole affair.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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Don't be ridiculous! -nt
by Dan McC / March 14, 2004 11:17 PM PST
In reply to: How's this Dan?

.

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So she thought they were discussing the weather? (NT)
by Kiddpeat / March 15, 2004 4:11 AM PST

.

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Is there no subject between the weather and bombs in your worldview? -nt
by Dan McC / March 15, 2004 4:28 AM PST

.

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Let's see. They could have been discussing great books, embroidery, the

stock market, tea and crumpets? The possibilities are endless.

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Think about it Dan for a few seconds - would they show top secret information to the general public - and that includes you? NT
by SteveGargini / March 12, 2004 11:50 AM PST

NT

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No, but...

They would characterize the information the she handed over, state how serious the damage that could have been done is, and relate how she acquired the information. That has all been done in previous cases.

Dan

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Re: $5,000
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / March 12, 2004 8:28 AM PST

Hi, J.

First of all, look at the amount. From the description of her activities, $5,000 doesn't even come close to matching the expenses for the trips, hotel rooms, etc. -- that's certainly not a lobbying contract, it's defraying personal expenses incurred as part of her activities. I'm not certain enough about regulations to know as to whether that legally counts as "income," but I'm sure neither was she -- and morally, it shouldn't. There may indeed be a technical violation, but to me this reeks of selective prosecution of a peace activist, much like what they're doing to Greenpeace, previously discussed here: U.S. takes hard line on Greenpeace.
Selective prosecution of political opponents is not a tactic that should be used under our system -- that's more the tactic of a totalitarian regime.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Defraying personal expenses of spying on Iraqi defectors?
by Kiddpeat / March 12, 2004 10:25 AM PST
In reply to: Re: $5,000

Technical violation? You must be kidding, and that's putting it charitably!

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I'm still stunned, Kiddpeat...
by J. Vega / March 12, 2004 10:34 AM PST

Kiddpeat, I'm still getting over being stunned by his trying to bring Greenpeace into it. BTW, employers pay expenses, cash from somebody who is not your employeer is something else.

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Re: Defraying personal expenses of spying on Iraqi defectors?

Hi, KP.

According to the story and her claims, she was begging the Administration not to invade Iraq (hence my comment on her being a would-be peacemaker). Needless to say, the Iraqis (who didn't want to be invaded) had some interest in facilitating her making those pleas.

There is nothing in the story about "spying on Iraqi defectors." What's your basis for that new claim?
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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P.S. The Chicago Sun Times
by Kiddpeat / March 15, 2004 4:40 AM PST
In reply to: Here's what I saw.

See my post below quoting from the Chicago Sun Times that she was spying on individuals. I don't know if this story is still on their site.

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Re: Here's what I saw.
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / March 15, 2004 12:41 PM PST
In reply to: Here's what I saw.

Hi, KP.

A very misleading statement. Nowhere is she charged with doing any of those things -- she's only charged with having contact with any agency reposnible for such activities. If there was ANY evidence that she was doing any of those things, they'd be counts of the indictment, and you know that as well as I do. And elsewhere, it's stated that she's not even charged with being an agent of the intelligence service, only for the government. This is political harassment of a peace activist, pure and simple.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re: Here's what I saw.
by Roger NC / March 15, 2004 2:20 PM PST
In reply to: Re: Here's what I saw.

From your initial link

The indictment also said Lindauer met last summer with an undercover FBI agent posing as a Libyan intelligence officer seeking help in supporting resistance groups inside Iraq. She twice left documents for the undercover agent at designated spots in Takoma Park, the indictment said.

This is the one that a lot of how serious it is hangs on. It doesn't even matter what info she passed, but what she thought it was and what she thought it could do to help resistance groups.

That's IF that is proven to be what she was intending to do.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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