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General discussion

What would you do: fix or buy a new computer?

Apr 21, 2017 5:40PM PDT

Hi! I am not tech savvy so here goes. I have a 2010 Dell system with Windows and Outlook. Lately, I have been getting a blue screen with lots of wording and telling me to contact my system administrator. I did take it to my computer guys who checked it out, kept it several days and said that the hard drive and inside components are fine. My computer guys also provide my internet connection and do service on my systems when I need it. After over a week of testing, they said that they also experienced a blue screen and said it might be a Windows problem. One of the guys said that maybe if I change to a Solid State Drive and reinstall Windows (I have them do all my backups) this might work – at a cost about $350 total for a 500GB solid state drive and labor. Also said that if eventually my computer dies, I can take out the solid state drive and use it on a new one. I would need to also reinstall all my programs such as Outlook, etc. Cost for their one-week diagnosis and testing the computer system was $95.


Big question: The computer is a 2010 Dell 8100 SPX Studio with a 2010 Outlook Professional program. If I spend $350 plus what I have already spent, I am out $450. What if this does not fix the problem? I typically get my computers at Costco. Should I instead get a new system which might cost $1K more or less? What would the techie world do? I continue to periodically get the blue screen (like every other day or less) and just shut it down and start again and usually it is OK for the rest of the day. I am learning to live with the inconvenience and have thought of continuing this until I can no longer breathe life into it. Thank you.

--Submitted by Carmen L.

Discussion is locked

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Not unless you want to
Apr 28, 2017 6:29PM PDT

If your motherboard and processor are fine and you're satisfied with the computer's speed and processing capacity, I wouldn't get a new computer - unless you really want to.

What the guy told you is that you need to reinstall Windows. There should be a Windows key, a long alphanumeric thing separated by dashes, on a Windows label on the computer. If recovery disks didn't come with the computer, you can download the correct version of Windows, install it, and plug in the key when it asks for it.

Be aware that you will lose whatever software you have installed if you can't reinstall it. Be sure to copy all of your data, especially files you want to keep, off of your computer before you do this.

A safer idea is to remove the hard drive and put in a new hard drive.

You do NOT need a solid state drive, atleast, assuming that isn't the kind of drive the computer has to begin with. That store is trying to sell you one! An ordinary hard drive of 500 gigabytes or 1 terabyte should be fine. Cost about $60.00

If your computer has power drive and mother board connectors for a second hard drive, hook pu the old one and copy off the files onto the new hard drive. Do NOT connect the old hard drive before installing Windows since you could easily accidentally wipe your old hard drive.

Now, before you do all of this, some computers have a separate compartment on the hard drive from which you can restore the computer to what was on the hard drive when you bought it. YOu still have to back up your data.

Windows should also give you the option of creating an image to restore your system from. However if there is a Windows operating system error it may simply get passed to your new installation, since you'll simply be putting on a new hard drive an exact image of your system as it exists at this time.

As is typical, your high cost computer shop workup didn't actually look very hard for what is causing the operating system error; it is possible it can be fixed short of reinstalling Windows. These tech support people are only allowed to spend so much time on you, and running simple electronic tests or reinstalling Windows doesn't take much time. A friend who knows Windows might do better by you.

Of course, it has LONG been my experience, that anyone who would spend all this money on high cost, low results tech support, is both wealthy and lazy enough to throw the thing in the trash and buy a glitzy new laptop.

Instead of throwing it in the trash, could you ship it to me if I paid for shipping?

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What would you do: fix or buy a new computer
Apr 28, 2017 6:30PM PDT

i would consider buying a new computwr if its more than 4 years due to the hardware and software. do take note not all old pc able take a new operation system.And whether tge store have the matching component's forvthe old pc.

if you are thinkng to built your own pc go yes you can budget fornthe hatdware. i have.been that sititation but i end up troubleshooting after 2 years due windows the service pack.

yes you can find diy noteboik but it is hard normally consumer rather a new laptop which cost less tgat 2,000.

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Throw It Out
Apr 28, 2017 6:31PM PDT

You can get a new computer for the same price and it will be a much better computer than the one you have. There is software to get the office licenses off so you could use it on the new computer as well. Also, a blue screen should also have an error message that you could write down and Google. Regardless, get a new one and don't buy from Costco for you pay a premium and don't get much bang for the buck.

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Get a new tech person
Apr 28, 2017 6:39PM PDT

Fire your tech person and find someone who knows what they are doing.

More importantly, what version of Windows are you running?

Copy the data from your computer you can't replace including any passwords, bookmarks, etc. if you have other software, make sure you have the file to re-install or be able to download it. Make sure you have the drivers you need. One of the few advantages of a Dell is you can find your drivers on their site.

Format (completely erase) your hard drive and re-install windows. You may be able to do this delete/reinstall via the Dell site.

The other option is, after you copy your data, erase the computer, donate it and buy a Mac. I'm a recovering Windows user and am continuing to fix my Windows friends' computers.

I don't replace a computer based on a technical problem, I fix it. If there is new technology that you use that is beyond your current computer you should replace it. If you 'tech' person is not finding a hardware problem, don't randomly replace a hard drive. They are just trying to sell you something.

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The techs should be able to tell if it is windows or not
Apr 28, 2017 6:44PM PDT

OK, the test that the techs need to do is swap out the hard disk with a test unit. Install windows on it and let it cook (That means leaving it on) to see if there is a BSOD with the new windows installation. If so, then it is likely a hardware problem. If not, then putting a standard hard disk and a reinstallation installation of Windows will fix the issue. (A cheaper fix). If you want an SSD, have a cheaper 250 Gig unit installed with a new hard disk. Put the reinstalled OS on the SSD. (You can also use a 128 Gig unit that costs about $49.)

If there is a hardware problem they should take out the RAM, clean the contacts and reinstall the modules. Then cook the unit and see if that clears the BSOD. If the BSOD continues, then consider getting a new unit. COSTCO has a nice Dell desktop for around $800 if you want to continue with the desktop. You can also see if there are some stores selling refurbished units.

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It sounds like you need another "computer guy".
Apr 28, 2017 6:52PM PDT

For the amount of money which this allegedly-professional technician wishes to charge, they should have taken steps to isolate the problem, which may or may not even be a failing hard drive. Also, assuming that the hard drive really is found to be the issue, why does the technician wish to install a costly SSD into a desktop computer which uses a standard 3 1/2" SATA hard drive?

In my experience, both working as a professional technician in the past, and as a hobbyist today, BSOD errors and system stability issues are usually caused by swollen/leaking capacitors in the power supply, swollen/leaking capacitors on the motherboard itself, corrupted system files, invalid/corrupted device drivers, or failing RAM. Usually, when the hard drive itself is going bad, the problem manifests itself as extremely sluggish operation, hard drive light on constantly, excessive seeking noises, taking forever to load/find files.

I am not sure that you need another computer, but I would certainly not recommend putting $450+ into an unnecessary SSD upgrade, which may not even address the underlying problem. Also, I feel it was improper for this "technician" to charge $95.00 without providing a definitive diagnosis. Nowhere did I read that he performed diagnostic testing which indicated a failed/failing hard drive, so it sounds like all he is doing is guessing. A better technician would have identified the exact BSOD error and researched probable causes (i.e. hardware or software) and if hardware would have visually inspected the motherboard capacitors, pulled the power supply and inspected the capacitors inside, run MEMTEST to test the memory, then attempted to clean-install the OS onto a different "test" hard drive to see if any errors would occur. Only then could the technician recommend replacing the hard drive (or attempting to reformat and reinstall on the existing one).

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Capacitors
Apr 28, 2017 7:54PM PDT

In most of my tech experience as well I have found the capacitors to be the culprits 75% of the time If you buy a new one I would recommend a system with the newer solid capacitors. The DELL business class machines use them and I have seen them last 10 to 15 years but the avg being about 7 yrs. Plus there are systems out there that use them in their higher end motherboard systems. Stay away from the cheap low cost ones from Walmart or Costco they usually last about 3 years and crap out. I would agree she needs another computer specialist her current one is just guessing

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Good point!
Apr 28, 2017 8:46PM PDT

I had not thought about the possibility of leaking or bulging capacitors! Now if CNET would allow me, I could post a photo showing some, so that Carmen knows what to look for.

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Upgrade or by a new computer?
Apr 28, 2017 6:57PM PDT

You don't say much about your system configuration, so there is no way to judge the cost of a new computer with equivalent capability. But in general, a computer that is already 7 years old, deserves a decent funeral. For only a bit more than the cost of the upgrade (and diagnosis) you can buy a new system that is sure to be more performant, and with more life remaining.

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If you got the money..
May 2, 2017 11:28AM PDT

I agree with you - in my case, I don't have the money - when my machine, which is 10 years old and otherwise running smoothly, started BSODing regularly, I simply upgraded my even newer ATI video adapter to the new CCC command center and driver for all ATI graphics adapters, and VOILA! No more BSODs! Ironically enough the CCC keeps popping up trying to get me to go back to the old driver. Go figure!

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I'm primarily an advocate of "deuse & recycle"
Apr 28, 2017 7:00PM PDT

And if I were faced with the same decision I would opt to rebuild that machine. But that's just me! As for someone who is a self professed non-technical novice computer user, the better way to go would probably be to get a new one. In my opinion, any one advising a novice user to go with Linux is way off base as that would only serve to confuse the situation even more than necessary. Once again this is MY OWN OPINION... and let me stre

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Fix or buy?
Apr 28, 2017 7:02PM PDT

You have already wasted 95 dollars on a old system, dont replace the hard drive with a SS drive and spend 400 more bucks just buy a new system...

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(NT) How's your budget, and find a new
Apr 28, 2017 7:15PM PDT
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How's your budget, and find a new 'computer guy'
Apr 28, 2017 7:24PM PDT

Replacing the hard drive and reinstalling Windows is the easy way out.
It doesn't save all of your pictures, documents, music, and any other data you might have on the hard drive.
There are a number of utilities that a decent tech or friend tech can run to determine if it is the hard drive, your ram memory, or some software like a drive causing a problem. They are all easy to run, but all take TIME to run.
The very first thing to do is invest in an external hard drive and backup all of your important data to it, including any programs you have downloaded from online purchase or free.
Second thing to do is see how much space you have left on the hard drive. Could be a simple matter of deleting old files so Windows can do all the things it needs to do in the background.
Then your tech or friend tech can run some utilities and Windows based commands that will check the hard drive itself and repair any bad sectors.
There are also free utilities available from the different hard drive manufacturers that can be downloaded and then run on your computer to check out the hard drive.
Again, this is time invested against what you are charged per hour by a tech or whomever.
Finally, if you don't have a lot of older software, and what you do have CAN be run on Windows 10, then invest in a new computer that you can transfer your backed up data to once the new one is up and running and your software is reinstalled.
You can get a lot of computer for $450!!

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Buy? Repair? SSD?
Apr 28, 2017 7:33PM PDT

Hello,
I would be careful with this "Tech" you're talking about. There are many tests available that will determine if it is a Windows error, a hard drive error, other hardware or even software. There are also Windows Logs to which can be perused to find the error. These tests and logs do take time but after a week, the Tech should KNOW the cause of the BSOD.
The BSOD could be as simple of a problem as a bad Driver. Maybe the wireless card needs to be replaced or even one of the memory sticks is bad. These are easy and often inexpensive repairs.
If it is Windows, then the only good assured fix is to back up all your data and re-install Windows clean. If it's hardware, then it depends on what the hardware is whether or not a fix is viable or too costly. If it's a hard drive failure then a new hard drive would fix the problem and would likely require a fresh install of Windows. Sometimes 'cloning' a drive will bring the error with the new drive.
A SSD would make your system much faster, but if the error isn't found and known then the SSD isn't a fix but money in the pocket of a 'Tech'.
For me, my personal opinion, if your system isn't an i3/i5/i7 of the 4th Gen or newer or the equivalent age in an AMD CPU system then spending $$ for an SSD isn't productive. The older motherboard, CPU and memory would restrict the SSD from being properly utilized.
At some point, the life of every computer comes to an end...some sooner than it should. At that point then we all are subject to back up all the data, buy a new machine (often with a new Operating System), install new programs and Apps (per the O.S. which may cost $$), probably buy a new printer (if there is no software/driver package for the new O.S.) and start over.
Without knowing the cause of the error, then it's hard to know what is the best option. A good Tech can give solid evidence and reports showing the problem so that a intelligent and wise decision can be made.
I hope you accumulate enough knowledge thru the comments of many to help you decide.
Paul
CompTIA Net+ Certified Network Technician / A+ Trained and experienced.

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Too old for Windows 10
Apr 28, 2017 7:36PM PDT

Microsoft told me, after months of problems that my 2011 machine is too old (anything before 2013 is not recommended any longer) for Windows 10, so I downgraded to Win 7. Solved my problems.

You did not say what version of Windows you have, but if it is Windows 10, a drop back to Win 7 may solve your problem. If not, I would recommend not throwing good money after bad and replacing the unit. But save your hard drive.

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Computer from 2008 running win 10
Apr 28, 2017 7:59PM PDT

I have a computer from 2008 running Win 10. It's a core I 5 2nd generation. While it's slow it runs. It's strange that Microsoft would verify the computer then force an upgrade. Then come back and say it's incompatible.

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Forced Upgrade
Apr 29, 2017 12:56PM PDT

MSFT no longer forces upgrades you can delay it for a time when the computer is not running any task. The Computer will be upgraded at that time and expect it to take from 2 to 8 hours depending on the type of upgrade required. It will in future upgrades only install the newer portion. It is like you have a chapter of a book and need to edit a new paragraph to it.

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Windows 10 upgrade from 7 on an older PC
May 1, 2017 6:15PM PDT

Apparently Microsoft techs did not know that the original Sandy Bridge based PCs from 2011 do not have proper drivers to run Win 10 properly until February of this year, after I had struggled with Win 10 for 7 months. Actually it had worked OK until the big upgrade in September 2016.

Intel has no plans to issue new drivers.

In hindsight, the safest way is to check with the HARDWARE maker, not with Microsoft.

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First place I'd look..
May 2, 2017 1:59PM PDT

would be the vendor who makes the computer, and look at their support options on their site. Fortunately for Carmen, DELL has pretty good support. For the CPU your advice can work, but for other types of hardware in a computer, the OEM for the computer is the 1st place to look. Much of the internal hardware was made to order for the PC OEM and not the particular piece of hardware in question. So no drivers can generally be found at the makers site for computers made by other OEMs. If you are dealing with home built computers, then it is a different issue, as all the components will be supported by each OEM hardware maker. This is why so many recommend buying from a local assembler, as you get great support for every part in the computer that way. Building a computer your self isn't actually the cheap way to go, it is cheaper in the long run though, and life is way easier! It is well worth it!

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Age has less to do with Windows 10 than other factors
Apr 28, 2017 8:52PM PDT

What's under the hood? CPU? Memory? Capacity of hard drive? Type of graphics card and amount of memory in the card? Capacity of hard drive? I've done a bunch of very inexpensive older Windows 10 systems (laptops and desktops) with Microsoft Windows 7 product key stickers, Intel dual core or i-series processors, 8GB minimum of memory and a 512MB graphics card. They run Windows 10 happily. Owners are happy, too.

Try to install Windows 10 on a lesser system, and either it won't work or it won't work well. That's the bottom line.

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You can not downgrade from win10
Apr 29, 2017 12:49PM PDT

The downgrade is only good for 10 days after upgrading to Win10. If you really want to downgrade you would have to purchase a W7 Disc and don't trust ebay. No reliable dealer is permitted to sell anything but W10 at a high Price Perhaps to many so called Techies have not bothered to look up MSFT Terms of Service regarding this matter. I used to build and repair computers, but at my age I do not need the hassles anymore.

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Are you saying....
Apr 29, 2017 3:32PM PDT

....those who upgrade from W8.1 or W7 can't wipe the drive and reinstall those OS instead and still have them activated? I don't believe that from what I've seen and heard.

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just guessing what s/he said ...
Apr 29, 2017 3:50PM PDT

One: the capability to roll back the upgrade goes away after ten days. Of course, you can always wipe the drive and install something else - anything else, really - possibly even windows 3.1 or OS/2. Well, maybe not that far back on modern hardware. But can you activate something with a key that has been superseded by an upgrade? Legally, according to the Ts&Cs, probably not. Will they still let you activate it anyway? I don't know - I never tried. Maybe.

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They told me that it is still legal
Apr 29, 2017 10:43PM PDT

They should still activate it. Of course, they will try to force you to upgrade, but that is something that can be stopped.

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What about the recovery partition??
Apr 29, 2017 4:00PM PDT

You could just simply go through the recovery process if the rescue disk is made from the original operating system. I realize Win10 makes this difficult. so a non tech person may not be willing to go through the Win 10 hell of trying to do a recovery.

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Inaccurate
Apr 29, 2017 10:42PM PDT

I was told by Microsoft that my Windows 7 licenses would still be good if I upgraded. You are right about needing a disk, but what a person needs is the same type of disk that was installed. For most, that is going to be an OEM disk. These are easy to obtain or borrow. It is the license that is worth money. The disk is beside the point unless you need it to reinstall. If the original sticker is still on the computer and still readable, the license is not a problem.

If the computer has a recovery partition (very likely) and if it is still working properly, it is a simple matter to revert to whatever the computer was running when it was bought.

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Interpret Blue Screen
Apr 28, 2017 7:44PM PDT

All "blue screens" have a message why it is displaying. copy it and post it on Microsoft help.,
Most blue screens concern code in the Window operating system. You dont say which OS you have but I would re-install the Win operating system, or upgrade it if possible to Win10. Usually Dell puts a complete backup so you can re-install the system . This is usually located on Drive D. simply open it
and follow the instructions. Also did you try a reset to Windows by going back to a date where you had no problems? Blue screen are not caused by hardware, drives or memory (unless you go over your memory size)but by the OS code.
I would re-install Windows or upgrade it. If you followed directions you should have a complete backup
of your system.

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A small correction is in order ...
Apr 29, 2017 2:07AM PDT

You said "Blue screen are not caused by hardware, drives or memory (unless you go over your memory size)but by the OS code."

Well, yes, but also NO!

It is the OS (Windows) code that determines that it has encountered a situation it cannot handle and that the best it can do is to "throw in the towel and bail out."

The "situation it cannot handle" can be any of the things you excluded and a lot more. The easiest to explain is probably flakey memory - often caused by overheating (or, if you are that way inclined, overclocking) - an instruction in memory is read incorrectly and the thing throws an exception for an invalid op code - or a jump address is misread and the CPU tries to jump into nowhere - another type of exception - and so on. Or a disk drive returns an error code that the driver doesn't understand and another exception is thrown that can't be handled. That sort of stuff. In most cases users and techies that don't have time or skills to trace the whole thing down to the last bit modification will just look at recent changes and some "regular suspects" - and suddenly pulling that freshly installed memory module or disk drive will help - or replacing the frozen-up fan ... or the power supply if it has been exposed to some power surges (lightning?)

A popular one also is this: as the hard drive is being written to, something happens to your power - it may just fluctuate for a moment or it may drop out completely. If a sector write was under way at that time you may have created an unreadable sector - later, in the course of an automatic scan or chkdisk this gets repaired (after a fashion) and you end up with a directory entry pointing the wrong way and a critical OS file is no longer acessible. This could cause a BSOD or the next boot will fail or in the midst of the most wonderful processing a DLL can't be loaded and an error messabe pops up. Depends.

That's why Windows install media offer a repair option that will make sure that all critical files are readable without reinstalling or doing anything else drastic to your installation. That is teh reason why I like to repair WIndows and I don't like to replace it. (Of course, if you lose a piece of registry in this fashion there probably isn't too much you can do.)

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Practical Advice
Apr 28, 2017 7:46PM PDT

Carmen-
1. Your computer is too old to warrant any part being replaced.
1a. If parts are starting to run erratically, it is only going to get worse and could fail unrecoverably when you can't afford the downtime. You are in current danger (see 6 below.)
2. You can buy a working new computer with year old worthy technology and a few years of life left for less than $400. Depending on where you live and how savvy you are, you may find a worthy reconditioned or reliable used computer for that price as well.
3. It rarely pays to buy top of the line computers today because within 4 months a better processor/hard drive/graphics card/ better or more RAM computer will be available for exactly what you paid. The general public is better off buying technology that is one year old with the capability of accepting upgradied hard drive/graphics card/and RAM.
3a. So, you can buy one year old technology that should last you three to five years and you can speed it up periodically by adding RAM or upgrading the hard drive to solid state.
4. Do not buy a "bargain computer." Those are generally bargains today and useless tomorrow. Generally, the manufacturers skimp on all the critical parts and within a short time you will regret the purchase.
5. A critical issue is the operating system. If you are buying a new (older technology) or used computer make sure it has the operating system you need already installed and warranted by the seller. Don't plan on upgrading to a new Windows version unless you are tech savvy enough to handle the issues in upgrading without help.
6. Chalk up the $95 you spent on analysis to education and buy a year old used or priced as used computer with room to upgrade.
6a. ASAP spend an extra $60 and get an external terabyte drive. While your current computer is working back up all your docs/pics/videos and important files to the external drive. Then, copy those files to the new computer. Then, back up from your new computer to the external drive regularly or get a cloud service, or do both.
7.. Do all of this quickly. If your computer guys couldn't fix your problem there is a good chance that you might SOON encounter an unrecoverable problem and be unable to get to your files. Currently, you are treading on thin ice.
Good luck on your mission.
John