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General discussion

What would you do: fix or buy a new computer?

Apr 21, 2017 5:40PM PDT

Hi! I am not tech savvy so here goes. I have a 2010 Dell system with Windows and Outlook. Lately, I have been getting a blue screen with lots of wording and telling me to contact my system administrator. I did take it to my computer guys who checked it out, kept it several days and said that the hard drive and inside components are fine. My computer guys also provide my internet connection and do service on my systems when I need it. After over a week of testing, they said that they also experienced a blue screen and said it might be a Windows problem. One of the guys said that maybe if I change to a Solid State Drive and reinstall Windows (I have them do all my backups) this might work – at a cost about $350 total for a 500GB solid state drive and labor. Also said that if eventually my computer dies, I can take out the solid state drive and use it on a new one. I would need to also reinstall all my programs such as Outlook, etc. Cost for their one-week diagnosis and testing the computer system was $95.


Big question: The computer is a 2010 Dell 8100 SPX Studio with a 2010 Outlook Professional program. If I spend $350 plus what I have already spent, I am out $450. What if this does not fix the problem? I typically get my computers at Costco. Should I instead get a new system which might cost $1K more or less? What would the techie world do? I continue to periodically get the blue screen (like every other day or less) and just shut it down and start again and usually it is OK for the rest of the day. I am learning to live with the inconvenience and have thought of continuing this until I can no longer breathe life into it. Thank you.

--Submitted by Carmen L.

Discussion is locked

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New computer or not?
Apr 22, 2017 2:11AM PDT

Carmen, my advice is to be sustainable and stay with it, but, if you do buy a new one, you should give every consideration on buying one that is Linux loaded. I have a laptop with Windows 10 loaded and I have continuing problems with it. If it is not one problem it is another with it. The last decent operating system Windows put out was 7. I also have a table top that I use as my entertainment system with my television and it is loaded with Linux. I never have a problem with it. It does everything that Windows does and more plus it is compatible with most Windows based programmes. The next laptop or other computer based device that I will buy will be Linux loaded. I would switch over now for my laptop but unfortunately on my ASUS model laptop I would have problems on finding drivers to make all the functions on my laptop to work. By the way, never consider ASUS, terrible customer service and repair. They fight you every step, plus, not a great product to use. I wish that I could dump it now. In any case, my suggestion to you is to fix what you have now. If you can, see if you can load Linux on your model and dump Windows or if you buy new, seriously consider buying a laptop that is preloaded with the Linux operating system. The system is free, open sourced, and updates quite regularly which is no different than Windows but none of the problems that you or others experience. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!

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Linux Mint
Apr 28, 2017 7:19PM PDT

Many would be surprised what this OS can do. I have installed it on an ASUS laptop and everything functions on it. There was no finding of drivers in fact I plugged my printer in and it just said "ready to use" no driver download needed for anything. In fact It runs 5 times faster than windows. It is also nice to plug in my cell phone, or any USB stick and it pops right up showing the files on it. Now that is what plug and play is supposed to be. It isn't what MicroSoft sells as plug and play

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Yeah, but...
Apr 29, 2017 3:27PM PDT

hes going to need an Office replacement - whether Libre Office will meet the needs or not is another question

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Get a new one and be done with it.
Apr 22, 2017 4:24AM PDT

Assuming that you don't have to spend any more money on buying Outlook for a new machine, paying around $500 for a decent new machine sounds good to me. Sure you won't have the SSD at that price range, but you can add that for $100 down the road.

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Try Linux- just read it first
Apr 22, 2017 5:11AM PDT

I stopped using Windows, just about when you bought your Dell, and I never looked back! I use Macs for home and Linux for work. I live in PA but, worked in NY, so, I was home only in the weekend. My neighbors were waiting for me Saturday morning to "clean and fix" their computers. On a whim, I decided to replace their Windows with Linux , telling them that this is an unreleased new version. Soon they stopped showing up at my door. I was sure that they can't use the computers, and I offended them.
This time I went around asking about how the machines perform. They were ecstatic, never had a "blue screen of death", everithing just worked. No infection, no malware.
Some still bring their NEW comps over for me to install Linux, either erasing Windows or in "double boot".
Here is a link to a Linux Mint vs Windows article:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-switch-to-windows-10-or-a-mac-when-you-can-use-linux-mint-17-3-instead/

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Being fools not to try it
Apr 28, 2017 7:21PM PDT

Linux Mint 18.1 Mate version simply awsome

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Linux may be right for you, but is it right for others?
Apr 28, 2017 8:43PM PDT

Linux may be right for you, but is it right for others who know ZERO about it and who have valuable software running under Windows.

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Is Windows right for everyone?
Apr 28, 2017 10:03PM PDT

Until someone tries both, how would they know which is best for them?

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Do Not Have Computer Guy Do Any More Work On This Computer
Apr 22, 2017 6:28AM PDT

Installing a new Solid State Drive will probably not fix your problem. Find test software and run it as mentioned in one of the other posts. Do not let the guys that have already charged you $$$ do anything more to your current computer. Since you are not a techie - maybe your best bet is to buy a new computer. Good luck.

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I'd try to fix but that may not be best for you...
Apr 22, 2017 8:03AM PDT

Hi Carmen,
You asked what the techie world would do in your situation. I think that what we might do and what would be best for you might not be the same thing. From your description, you say you are not very tech savvy and actually, you sound a bit like my younger son, who sees his computer as just a tool for getting things done, rather than a deep interest in itself. I mention this because although the machine is a bit long in the tooth (I have much older ones!) it has a very reasonable specification (from CNET) and I certainly wouldn’t give up on it yet. But then I do my own maintenance work; I’d have serious reservations about paying your “computer guys” to do it – my time is my own, they have to make a living and that isn’t cheap.

There are some inconsistencies in the information you have been given. For example “I did take it to my computer guys who checked it out, kept it several days and said that the hard drive and inside components are fine”. And then they suggest “maybe if I change to a Solid State Drive and reinstall Windows ... this might work”. Which is it, is the hard drive fine or not? If it’s fine, why would a SSD fix it? According to the CNET specification, your machine has a 1.5 TB HDD, a 500GB SSD sounds a tad small to me, given you have 7 years data accumulated on the machine. It’s also an expensive option/gamble, when it may be the Windows reload that fixes the problem, effectively free, maybe plus labour costs, if done professionally.

Moving on, the wording on the blue screens you are getting could help give the folks here a clue as to what is going on, if you could post it. But first, as others have suggested, I’d start by checking the HDD for errors, 7 years could be moving towards its end-of-life. CHKDSK will do that for you and I’d do the quick scan first and then if that finds nothing, try a full surface scan (A CHKDSK option) but be warned, on 1.5 TB this will take a very long time. It’s a long time since I worked with a Dell but they used to have a good set of diagnostic tools (software) – if they still exist, I’d run those next. You might also want to run a System File Checker scan on the machine – that can sometimes find and repair corrupt Windows files. I’m sure Bob P. would recommend a fully SPECCY run but I’ll leave that to him.

If none of this revealed anything untoward, my next step would be to reload Windows and your applications. Win10 has much improved reset and reload options but if you are running an older system, it is quite time consuming to rebuild a system from scratch. You either know how to do this or you don’t, so I won’t elaborate.

I would expect to find the reason for the problem from these actions. I should say that I’ve assumed your computer guys cleaned the machine thoroughly during their diagnostics, to eliminate dust and related heat problems. To be honest, I’d have expected them to have done all this stuff during the diagnostics week.

That’s only a rough outline. The question is, what would be your best option? I’m guessing you haven’t done any of this before and so you would either need your computer guys to do it at a cost (and it’s a lot of work) or maybe you have a knowledgeable friend who could help you.

In these circumstances, the option of a new machine with a full warranty from Costco or wherever could be a lot more attractive. You would most likely have to install Outlook Pro separately, I believe it’s included in Microsoft Office Home and Business edition as your cheapest option. Whether you can get an Office 2010 version (2016 is current) is another issue, some retailers may still have a copy. Or if your copy on the old machine is a retail licence (as opposed to an OEM version that came with the machine) that would be transferable to your new machine, though you may need a phone call to Microsoft to reactivate it.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

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You should get a new one !
Apr 22, 2017 1:34PM PDT

A brand new computer is a great idea. 7 years for a computer is too long. The new Core i7, i5 with the new technology makes your best work performance. New computer speed is for all-in-one new performance for sure ! I'm sure that you will love the new computer.

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put it this way
Apr 22, 2017 1:46PM PDT

that 450 bucks can get you a very good computer if you keep your monitor and use the computer for general purposes with photo editing. not if you are into gaming or a major video editor, then you will spend a bit more but not much - so you decide Happy

the last few computers I bought (other than the aio) were walmart specials. they were under 300 bucks and they do everything I need them to do. I found that instead of spending over a thousand for one that would do everything, I get one for my current needs, and if it does become a lemon or I have to add more ram or have to get another, I would still come out ahead. so far no lemons.

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Buy a new one
Apr 22, 2017 4:16PM PDT

Definitely buy new. If you fix the old one, you will still have an old one with whatever problems remain. Of course, there is no guarantee that spending the money to "fix" it will really solve the problem. If you buy new, you will update hardware, firmware, and operating system software to current and very likely get a much faster machine with greater memory and storage. You may be able to reinstall some of your current software on the new machine, which saves some money, of course.

However, you mention Costco (which is one of my favorite stores and gives very good value for your money): For computers and related products, however, I buy elsewhere because Costco usually has limited choices and higher-end models (that cost more). Although these can include nice features, I don't need them as I want a machine that handles all normal things, such as Internet, E-mail, office functions (WP, spreadsheet, database, calendars, etc.), photos, audio, and video, so I buy very capable machines at a much lower price point. For that, my "go-to" store is Micro Center--they only have about 25 stores nationwide, so you have to decide whether they, other stores nearby, or web shopping is best for you.

Good luck.

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New...If It's Within Your Budget
Apr 22, 2017 8:00PM PDT

Hi Carmen

Sorry to hear that you are experiencing frequent appearances of the Blue Screen of Death (BSOD). For the record, I could not find any information for a Dell Studio SPX 8100. I did find information on a Dell Studio XPS 8100. I’m going to proceed on the assumption that you transposed the letters XPS to SPX.

The Dell Studio XPS 8100 from all reviews I read was a pretty substantial unit. With proper maintenance and care ten years of use is not beyond the realm of possibility. Albeit there are exceptions and maybe your unit is one of those. For now let’s focus on the “what is”.

From your post it seems you are experiencing the BSOD far more often than is acceptable. No one wants to see a BSOD. Seeing one once a year would not be a reason to panic. Often a hard re-boot (pressing the power button) will cure a BSOD.

Your computer guys (as you call them) are telling you that your HD and inside components are fine. By inside components I’ll assume they mean Motherboard, PSU, CPU, GPU and RAM. If that’s true then you most definitely have outdated drivers and/or software installed that is causing the problem.

To be honest I’m not feeling the warm and fuzzy’s regarding your computer guys. Except for 5 and 6 below did they try 1 thru 4:

1. Use System Restore: If this works, you’ll know that it’s likely a software problem.
2. Scan for Malware
3. Install Updated Drivers
4. Boot into Safe Mode: In safe mode, Windows loads only the essential drivers. If a driver is causing Windows to BSOD, it shouldn’t do so in safe mode. A good “computer guy” can work on fixing the problem when in safe mode.
5. Check for Hardware Problems: However, your computer guys have given the green light to all hardware. Hmmm???
6. Reinstall Windows: That would most definitely cure what’s causing the BSOD

Since your BSOD issue appears to be un-diagnosable (as per your computer guys) you do have a decision to make. It’s really going to come down to what your budget can handle. Losing your data appears not to be a problem as you said your computer guys run your backups. Kudo’s on that!

I just completed a purchase for a new printer. The Print Head on the old printer which carries the ink cartridges and other electronics died. All other components were in good working order. A new Print Head would have cost $129 with no guarantee that the problem would be resolved. I decided to invest a few hundred dollars more in a new printer with 3-year warranty. The point being is that sometimes we must decide whether to invest in old gear or just bite the bullet and go for new. Luckily, I was in a financial positon to go for new.

So barring none of the suggestions mentioned above (1 thru 6) will resolve your BSOD issue and you have the finances…. invest in new gear.

One thing I don’t get…Your computer guys said your HD is fine. Re-installing Windows (assuming you have a Win 7 disc and license key) is a good idea. Then why the need to invest in a 500gb SSD? While a SSD will be a lot faster than your conventional HD…speed is not why you submitted your post. Also, large capacity drives are overkill for the average user unless you’re a gamer or storing large photos.

These days a 256gb SSD is a standard. Additional space if needed can be handled with an external conventional HD for a desktop (if no expansion slots are available) or a portable external drive for a laptop. Finally on the subject of SSD’s I highly recommend you shop the internet for pricing. I’ll say no more on that…except to say, “Caveat emptor”.

So once again in conclusion…with seemly no available tech support to resolve the BSOD issue on your Dell Studio XPS 8100 and if budget is not an issue…buy a new unit. Good Luck!

Together Everyone Achieves More = TEAM

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Not so fast...
Apr 28, 2017 10:54PM PDT

While I agree those guys should have done all those things, especially with a diagnose fee of $95. I don't have much use for them when they say it doesn't look as if the Hard Drive has an issue, but hey, give us more money to replace it with something expensive anyway. (Tech angle here: ALL probably using SATA-I speeds on top of it because of age.) 256GB class SSDs can range anywhere from 240 - 275GB really, and vary quite a bit in cost. SSDs are working on becoming the standard in laptops, but in desktops, about only 10% ship with SSDs... even less of a standard than in laptops.

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Thanks for your feedback.
Apr 29, 2017 1:46PM PDT

However, you misinterpreted by reference to standard. I was referring to 256gb SSD's as an upgrade/replacement to the standard HD in a tower or laptop. After re-reading my post I can see how you may have arrived at your conclusion that I meant standard as a "OEM Build" component .

I've spoken to a lot of people who have realized that the 500gb standard HD that came with their unit was way more than what they actually needed. So to keep cost down and still get the benefit of an SSD they have opted for a good 256gb model. The really smart ones have made the switch and repurposed thier 500gb standard HD by placing it in a USB enclosure ($30 -$40) and are using it like any external HD purchased off the shelf.

True the majority of tower PC's ship with a standard HD very few with an SSD of any kind. SSD's are becoming more of a common build component in the ultra-portable laptop arena (i.e. blade thin and lite weight). In fact those that are in the "blade thin" category are beginning to employ flash memory vs the traditional SSD. Still many laptops (by weight) not designed to be overly backpack friendly or constantly carried by business professionals from desk to meetings and back again still ship with a standard HD as you have suggested.

Cheers!

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Good post..
Apr 29, 2017 3:43PM PDT

If Carmen enters the service tag written on the case of all DELL computers at the DELL site, it will give all drivers that have the latest versions. He/she may not know how to check version dates on each driver, but I do not want to go into that. It would probably be just as well to install all drivers at the DELL site as one of them may just be corrupted and needs a reinstall. Especially when Microsoft updates breaks certain drivers, in my experience just reinstalling the driver in question can fix the issue on a fully updated Microsoft installation.

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Thanks for liking the post
Apr 30, 2017 11:00AM PDT

and great suggestion on visting the Dell website to install or reinstall the latest drivers.

Cheers!

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Semantics
Apr 23, 2017 6:28AM PDT

" I am not tech savvy" -
If it means "Technology is a closed book to me" and/or "I keep technology at an arm´s length" then buy new, and forget about it. A 2010 Dell would have come with W7, and the fact that it could well run with Linux for another decade ("breathe life into it") becomes irrelevant. One does need to be a little tech savvy with open source, else it would be too much trouble.

W7 itself provides a reasonable set of diagnostic tools to find out the reason behind BSODs, so if the "computer guys" cannot put their finger on it it could be anything. Again, due to potential costs of trying to find out, buy new stuff with warranty. And forget about it.

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Linux
Apr 23, 2017 2:06PM PDT

Linux Mint, Ubuntu and Zorin are all easier to install as a stand alone OS than windows. Even more, they are easier to install as dual boot OS systems, than any two windows systems in dual boot. The only place they may be harder to install is on computers less than 2 years old, since some driver files might not be available for them yet for some of the newer chips on motherboards. Many videos on youtube showing just how easy it is.

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Its a DELL
Apr 28, 2017 7:43PM PDT

It's a DELL and I have found very few if any problems on Running Linux Mint 17 thru 18 or Ubuntu on them. In 90% of the cases you wont have to install any drivers at all. It just works. That said Try it out running from the DVD drive or a USB stick version of it usually you can determine any issues do that. But like I have said, It's a DELL and they are UBUNTU and LINUX MINT friendly

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Linux is nice for the tech savvy
Apr 28, 2017 8:44PM PDT

But Carmen says she is not tech savvy. Nuf said.

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dont have to be tech savvy
Apr 29, 2017 12:19AM PDT

you do not have to be tech savvy to run linux. anyone with any common sense can run linux since most distros will install and have a look very similar to windows. most users only need the default settings. now nuff said.

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You need a second opinion
Apr 23, 2017 1:19PM PDT

If your equipment is checking out, and (problems aside) you're happy with what you've got, I'd start with a second opinion. If your hardware really is OK, you don't need the SSD. It'd be nice to have, but you don't need it. You just need a Windows reinstall. If your hardware is not OK, It won't cost you much more than the $350 they want to charge you to get a brand new system. You can buy a whole lot of computer for a lot less than $1000. But that won't put money in your IT vendor's pocket. You've already spent $95 for diagnostics, which isn't a bad price. But the $350 bump for a new SSD is superfluous.

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Fix or new
Apr 23, 2017 1:51PM PDT

If you have to pay someone to replace stuff then buy new.

If your a little handy then maybe fix.

Replacing a hdd with a ssd is not difficult to do and you can migrate the ssd to the next machine.

If you would rather not play with the innards at least run a check disk with the F+R options on the hdd.
Use google for the 'how to'.

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Something Called "Debugging"
Apr 23, 2017 7:25PM PDT

A long time ago, when a computer "acted up", someone would run diagnostics and analyze a dump (or, as in this case, Blue Screen) and figure out exactly what the problem is. Is it the disk? Is it memory? Is it someone added a new piece of hardware without seeing if the power supply can handle it. Without analytical work, there is NO guarantee that, regardless of who's advice you take, anything you do will fix your problem/issue.

I would ask you computer guys EXACTLY what the problem is and what component, if any, is failing (software has components too). What would you do if you bought a new PC, brought stuff over to the new machine, and it died anyway with the same blue screen? After you paid all that money? Unfortunately, this is the level of technical expertise as shown by many young people (take that Zuckerberg). Not really, but experience and even being able to print off a "mini-dump" and look at it can be important.

Blue screens are "USUALLY" caused by driver issues. Drivers are the software components that go between your programs and the OS in order to interface to hardware components. But, without at least a screen shot, it is really hard to diagnose. The usual questions center around: "what did you change?" Did you install a new program? New piece of hardware (even as simple as a mouse, keyboard, monitor)? What were you doing at the instant of the blue screen? I've seen where bad drivers for a printer can cause that.

Do you have a complete backup? You should. Buy you really should run CHKDSK with full options. It may not be the hardware, but could be a corrupted file.

Finally, if your "techs" are saying you need a new computer, I'm sorry, but it really doesn't sound like they have a clue. In my honest opinion. Have them do the following: upgrade to current versions ALL drivers, as a start. They can use the device manager as a starting point. If you added a new piece of hardware or software when this started, have it removed including drivers. (That is, properly uninstalled not just yank it out).

FINALLY, The blue screen says something on the top of it. Write it down as well as some of the long numbers near it and do a web search for the error and the numbers. It could tell you that a certain patch for a given product may be bad. In which case, all of these expensive hardware replacements, upgrades will not help you at all.

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Same Boat
Apr 24, 2017 5:47PM PDT

I am no means a techie but I pay attention to CNET for my techie go to needs. I am in the same boat I got all set up pulled every document I would need for filing my taxes and made myself the perfect cup of coffee and pulled my chair up to my laptop also a DELL is a 2009 model. Turned on this trusty machine and flashing are the icons and over a 10 minute period I could get the screen to stop flashing and only the icons showed and the task bar was completely black and useless. Yes, very frustrated. I did borrow roommate's laptop which is actually mine too but only a 2010. I took my computer to a "Big Name Store" (BNS) and they could look at it and uninstall and reinstall for $100 but I would loose all my info. Keep in mind I can get access to my docs and some files to back up if I need to but not ready to commit to losing the data at current time. While at BNS I remembered the Lil' Cell phone repair shop also did service on laptops I took it to them and the IT tech asked how long it had been going on. I stated It worked last week and yesterday when I went to work taxes it did not work. He kept if for a week to try some different stuff but was unable to update/restore to a usable state. He too feels that it is the Windows update. It no longer will update to 2010 and be compatible due to it being an original 2007 Windows. He suggested not dumping cash into it a start looking for a replacement. I was changed the initial $20 and very thankful for that small expense. I went back the BNS and there was a rep for a certain brand of computers there and I told him I was looking but what could he tell me about his brand. He asked what I currently had and stated it was 2009 and he said definitely replace. And then he asked how I was able to keep it running so long. It made me laugh but I would say if you want SSD which I am considering do it with a purchase of a new one with a warranty. That way you are covered. As they are becoming a disposable item.

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This is a very old computer
Apr 28, 2017 6:22PM PDT

I know, it has probably served you well. The quote and advice you were given sounds suspicious to me. You can buy a new computer that is nicer than what you have for far less than you suppose. Take a look! I would donate the old one to someone with more tech skills than you have so that it can be set up for someone who does not have one to use.

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Maybe the RAM?
Apr 28, 2017 6:23PM PDT

My goodness, quite the conundrum. I will say that I was also getting the Blue Screen of Death with my current computer some years ago (one I purchased back in 2008! It's been difficult scraping together to replace it so if it dies, I'm screwed) My computer folks replaced the RAM and I've not had an issue with mine, at least not for that particular problem. If your folks found nothing wrong with the hard drive, I'd leave that alone and ask about a RAM replacement/upgrade perhaps.